Training run HR?

[RedCanny]

I finally got an HRM recently, and thus far I can make it read and record my heart rate. It has told me that my average HR on my usual 2 or 3 mile runs is around 160 (I keep a pace of around an 8-minute mile). I'm pretty comfortable at this pace.

What I'm curious/confused about: is 160 too fast of a heart rate to sustain, for what I consider to be a general endurance-training run? I read a few fitness websites and I've gleaned that 160, for a woman my size, is considered a "performance training" level - one step above "endurance training". I.e., it's more of a rate that I should get if I were doing sprints or intervals. It's not a rate I should maintain for 2-3 miles.

So, on yesterday's run, I ran at a pace that kept my HR at around 150, and for me that meant not only running slower, but running more vertically - i.e., it bothered my knee (I had ACL surgery 10 yrs ago). I really didn't like the slower pace.

I suppose I may find a more accurate prediction of what my endurance training HR should be a) when I finish reading the Polar manual and/or b) if I consult with a fitness trainer, but perhaps you ladies can give me some perspective. What's your average HR for a general endurance run (no intervals/sprints)?

[RedCanny]

Ok, the lack of responses has driven me into further research -and into reading further into the HRM manual. 160 bpm is way too fast for an endurance, or "long" run. Now my HRM beeps whenever I go over 145 or under 125! Which, I must say, was a little annoying on my hilly morning cycling commute today. :)

I think I "fell" into that pace because of the plan I used to get back into running: several months ago I started with 1-minute run/walk intervals, then eventually worked up to running 30 minutes straight. Not surprisingly, the first time I ran a full mile, the pace I was used to was pretty speedy. Which of course felt good- the speed was an ego boost AND it really doesn't bother my knee like slower jogging can.

Now that I'm running 2-4 miles, 3 days a week, and I've got one 5k under my belt, it makes a lot more sense to ease up on any days I'm not doing sprints/intervals or a race.

As for the knee bothering me at a slower pace, I suppose it's better to build tolerance in the knee than to abuse my heart, and it sounds like I'll get better returns on any future races, if I follow this plan. I ran slower just yesterday, and my knee didn't bother me much.

[teigyr]

I was kind of wondering the same thing so thanks for answering yourself!!! I'm up around 160 also and I feel ok there. It's frustrating because honestly, I don't know if I can GET any slower sometimes and to shut the darned thing up, I'll walk for a bit. I actually turned the beep off but still.

I'm torn about the whole thing. I wanted a HRM so I got it but I'm not so sure I like abiding by its regime.

You are good with it now? I haven't cycled with it yet, I'm about to go try. Yesterday I ran about 3 miles though and finally decided that I'd try to keep it around 150 but it was frustrating to go below that.

[Wahine]

Training HRs are very individual. 160 BPM would be just sub anaerobic threshold for me and I would use this heart rate for higher intensity intervals.

On the other hand, I can run very comfortably and work on endurance at any HR below 148.

Some people have higher avg HRs and will train at much higher levels.

HR zones for different types of training depend on many factors: age, genetics, training history, body weight...

I would strongly encourage you to search this site and others on the web to get a better understanding of HR. I know there have been previous discussions on this topic in this forum.

Also, I use a book by Joe Friel, "The Triathletes Training Bible", to guide my workout plans. He does a very good job of explaining the role of HR in training and how to do self testing to estimate you HR zones.

Hope that helps.

[RedCanny]

teigyr: As for the beeping, well, I haven't run with the HRM yet, in this new mode that beeps, so we'll see. But I think I may be ok with running at the slower pace, on longer runs. But if that thing beeps when I get up to 145... Oy. It's hard enough to stay as low as 150!

Since my 5k a few weeks ago I haven't decided what my new goal is, but I think it's going to be another 5k in 3 weeks, then one in September-the focus for both being to improve from my time of 26:05. I'm putting together a training plan that'll have me doing a variety of run lengths each week; for the shorter ones (certainly for any sprints/intervals) I'll plan to run a faster pace.

Wahine: thanks for the suggestions/advice! I still have a few calibrations to make on that HRM (i.e. my "ownzone" and taking its fitness test), so that may help me sort out my own training HR zones.

[Wahine]

Redcanny - I forgot to mention not to worry about the HR zone on the hill, try to keep it low if you can but if you're going above your goal HR for less than 2 minutes and only doing that once in a while, that's fine, as long as your avg HR stays in your goal range.

[Grog]

Heart rate is a very personal thing, and there's nothing to replace a lactate threshold test done in proper lab conditions, in my opinion. (Exercising with various sensors on.)

Based on experience, though, I assume my max to be in the high 190s. When I do intervals, I push to 185 for short periods or time, and I can also keep that when going up a hill. That's about the HR I race at as well. For my long runs I try to stick around 160-165 but talking with running buddies brings it up by a good five beats. Cycling at low intensity I would be between 120 and 150 depending on the terrain, assuming no monster hills or sprints.

I used to be really scared of my heart rate. I thought the Polar would set off an alarm at 200 the first time I wore it!! (no, that's not interference.) I spoke with a cardiologist-friend and he told me not to worry about it.

I turn off the beeper on the heart rate monitor though. I don't like to hear other people's beats either, but that's not a big deal. If it's useful to you do keep it on.

With training I've found that I can run much faster than before with the same heart rate. Your mileage may vary!!

[teigyr]

I wore it cycling today and it was very interesting. There were a lot of times when I was pushing when I didn't realize it (had a nasty headwind) and the "bad" hill that I thought would get me up past 180, didn't. My high was 175 :o

Then again, I'm still building up to it so granny gears are in order. My average heart rate on a 44 mile ride with wind and some hills was 145.

Redcanny, is it a Polar F11?

Thank you to Wahine and everyone else. It's all new and complicated but I'm learning little by little :D

[RedCanny]

teigyr, my HRM is the Polar RS200 - one that is ideal for running, evidently.

My commute is pretty short - just 7 miles of a long down hill then a short uphill on the way there, and rolling hills on my return. On the way home today my HR rarely got above 127.

Wearing the HRM sure is an education. Even wearing it first around the house was fascinating-I'd never thought how much my HR would change from sitting to standing, much less from an easy cruise rate to racing to make it through a traffic light.

[yellow]

RC, there are sevel good books out there on HR training. It IS really hard to live by it at first, and it almost feels like a step backwards. But it does work. It just takes patience...sometimes alot of patience.

I'm like Grog...super high max, high working rates (usually in the high 160s average), and a pretty high resting HR. Always been that way. I recover quickly, which seems to be my only well known indicator of being "in shape". I am a smaller, tightly wound person (though my blood pressure is very low). I know a 65 year old gentleman who is in fantastic shape and his absolute max is over 200 (mine is 203). Like Wahine says, it just depends.

Interestingly, I find there is no difference between my working and exercise max (not absolute max) heart rates for running and cycling. A lot of the literature indicates that cycling rates are generally lower. As usual, I don't fit the mold.

I quit using my HRM for my trail runs because there is so much climbing (I can't even get it down for some of the hills that I have to walk because the grades are simply too steep) that my HR is always high, period. I always do an easy warm up and pretty extensive cool down, which I think helps.

Maybe someday I'll do a real LT test. Or maybe not!

[tattiefritter]

I'm very similar to Yellow, high working heart rates. I can still breathe comfortably through my nose at 160bpm (in fact I was breathing comfortably through my nose at 171bpm a couple of weeks ago for some reason though that is rare). A friend of mine only hits 160bpm when she is working extremely hard and is about to see stars. In our riding group of 14 at the weekend we had a comparison of heart rates and there was a large range.

I judge how hard I am working by my breathing, if I'm breathing through my nose then I am very comfortable, when I start breathing through my mouth then I am starting to work harder. The switch from all nose to a mix of mouth and nose breathing happens around 163bpm - 165bpm fairly consistently no matter what I'm doing. When I was training for my half marathon I aimed to run at a pace where I was always breathing through my nose, if I was having to start breathing through my mouth a lot (hills excepted) then I was going too fast.

I can reach much higher heart rates cycling than running at the minute. On an MTB ride with technical/steep climbs I can regularly hit 187 if I'm pushing it, I think the highest I've managed to hit running so far is 181. I think that is due to the fact that I'm more conditioned to cycling and not having to support my own body weight. I'm intending on doing some hilly trail running however, it'll be interesting to see what happens then.

[Grog]

I can reach much higher heart rates cycling than running at the minute. On an MTB ride with technical/steep climbs I can regularly hit 187 if I'm pushing it, I think the highest I've managed to hit running so far is 181. I think that is due to the fact that I'm more conditioned to cycling and not having to support my own body weight. I'm intending on doing some hilly trail running however, it'll be interesting to see what happens then.

Your story totally reads like mine. I had that same observation about not cranking up my HR as much when running compared to cycling. Then I started running much more seriously last fall and especially doing hill reps. I can now consistently bring my HR to 195 and I've even hit 200 once or twice going up a hill at race pace. I thought it was pretty cool (one of my running partners thought it was pretty scary!!!). And it really pays off in hilly races.

[teigyr]

Wearing the HRM sure is an education. Even wearing it first around the house was fascinating-I'd never thought how much my HR would change from sitting to standing, much less from an easy cruise rate to racing to make it through a traffic light.

Me too. The funny thing is I watched it go up when I rode over an overpass, I am scared of heights! That led me to my latest idea, Weight Loss for Lazy People. I could show them suspenseful movies or spiders or whatever elevates their heart rate :D

[Momof5]

I know this is a little switch of topic but I have been having trouble with my heart rate monitor. Ironically the place it works without fail is in the pool, the very place it may give inaccurate or no readings at all because of the chlorine. When I'm running I have to try all sorts of contortions to try to pick up any reading, so many that I often give up all together. Can anyone shed some light on why this might be happening? It also happens on the bike. It's a Polar F6 or some such other model.

[colby]

I know this is a little switch of topic but I have been having trouble with my heart rate monitor. Ironically the place it works without fail is in the pool, the very place it may give inaccurate or no readings at all because of the chlorine. When I'm running I have to try all sorts of contortions to try to pick up any reading, so many that I often give up all together. Can anyone shed some light on why this might be happening? It also happens on the bike. It's a Polar F6 or some such other model.

You might get the chest strap sensor wet before you put it on. I find it really helps. You might also make sure it's fitting tight, but not so tight that it's uncomfortable. Make sure you're placing it right where the bottom of your sports bra would go, kind of around the biggest part of your rib cage. Until I knew how to use mine, I had it in the wrong place and it angered me to no end... when I saw a picture on Polar's site, the light bulb went on. :)

Good luck.

[RedCanny]

Yes--- pour water over those 2 fabric sensors on the inside of the chest strap, before you put it on. Mine won't work if I don't do that, even if I'm already sweaty.

If you're doing that already... consider me stumped. :)

[Jolt]

RC, there are sevel good books out there on HR training. It IS really hard to live by it at first, and it almost feels like a step backwards. But it does work. It just takes patience...sometimes alot of patience.

I'm like Grog...super high max, high working rates (usually in the high 160s average), and a pretty high resting HR. Always been that way. I recover quickly, which seems to be my only well known indicator of being "in shape". I am a smaller, tightly wound person (though my blood pressure is very low). I know a 65 year old gentleman who is in fantastic shape and his absolute max is over 200 (mine is 203). Like Wahine says, it just depends.

Interestingly, I find there is no difference between my working and exercise max (not absolute max) heart rates for running and cycling. A lot of the literature indicates that cycling rates are generally lower. As usual, I don't fit the mold.

I quit using my HRM for my trail runs because there is so much climbing (I can't even get it down for some of the hills that I have to walk because the grades are simply too steep) that my HR is always high, period. I always do an easy warm up and pretty extensive cool down, which I think helps.

Maybe someday I'll do a real LT test. Or maybe not!

Another high heart rate person here! My max (at least for running) seems to be 211; average while running is in the 160's or 170's (this includes some time spent in the 180's and 190's when going up hills). It's not that unusual for me to top 200 when running up certain hills; that's happened on the bike as well. My resting HR is mid 50's to low 60's. I wonder if there's something to your observation that as a smaller, "tightly wound" person your HR gets higher--that description fits me quite well too (my BP is also good).