Why Steel?

[Zen]

It seems like it would be so heavy and rigid.

[mimitabby]

steel is actually quite lively. It's not so heavy, they've learned to thin the tubes down so that they compete nicely weightwise with alum. and titanium bikes.

In an accident, steel bends, doesn't break (usually) carbon breaks, aluminum breaks.

some of this preference for steel is emotional (speaking for myself here); but it gives a good ride and lasts and lasts.

[KnottedYet]

Smooth as silk and springy. When it fails it tends to fail slowly, with lots of noise and warning. Slender graceful tubing. Cheerful "ping" when you bump it. Sturdy and forgiving. (a dent isn't going to spontaneously collapse the tube under presssure) Repairable.

Not heavy. My lugged steel Waterford is only 21.5 lbs with all the components. My TIG-welded steel Kona Smoke feels the same weight as my aluminum Kona Dew when I carry it up and down my steps.

Edit: I was trying to find a particular article about frame materials, but I found this one instead: http://www.rivbike.com/bikes/our_approach/frame_materials

[xeney]

Repairable

Is that really true? I always hear that, but when we actually had a dented steel bike we couldn't find anyone willing to work on it.

[Velobambina]

My steel bikes aren't heavy, and they are fast,beautiful machines. For the same reasons as Mimi & Knotted, I prefer steel.

[7rider]

It seems like it would be so heavy and rigid.

Some of it can be. Think of your average Huffy.
There are many grades of steel - some is a drag, some is quite wonderful.

Some companies create art with steel. Think Waterford, Serotta, Independent Fabrications, Bianchi.
Comparing those bikes to your average Huffy, is like comparing a Rolls Royce to a Yugo. Similar in some respects. Worlds apart in others.

Steel is extremely versatile. In the right hands, it can result in a bike that is wonderful to look at and a joy to ride - often at a price that is more appealing than titanium (I can't even compare it with carbon, aluminum and the like). Of course, the new 953 tubing that IF has.....Swoon....but that puts you up in the ti price range....

edit: This being said, realize that steel is not everyone's cup o' tea. Some folks prefer the "snap" of full carbon or aluminum over the ride of steel. Different folks like different things.....

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

The steel they make for bike tubing these days is lighter and stronger than the steel from years ago.
Steel bikes ARE usually repairable- best by people who are familiar with making/working with steel bikes.
Steel bikes flex ever so slightly as you ride- giving a less stiff, more comfortable ride than many other bikes.
Steel (especially lugged steel) is very graceful, slender, and beautiful looking.
Steel is more affordable than titanium and sometimes carbon too. Aluminum is cheaper but some people feel it gives a harsh stiff ride.

[Pax]

...Steel (especially lugged steel) is very graceful, slender, and beautiful looking.

Okay, I'll go ahead and ask a dumb question...what does "lugged" mean?? :o

[Veronica]

http://tandemhearts.com/coppermine/albums/legolas/legolas_01.jpg

Lugs are a way to connect the tubes.

V.

[Pax]

Lugs are a way to connect the tubes.

V.

Thanks V, but what is the difference with a non-lugged one? Is lugged lighter/faster/prettier/stronger?

[KnottedYet]

Is that really true? I always hear that, but when we actually had a dented steel bike we couldn't find anyone willing to work on it.

My sweetie drove her car into her carport, with her custom steel bike on the roof-rack. :eek:

She was able to have the frame repaired and bike is fine and doing multi-day multi-hundreds-of-miles rides.

Roguedog had her rescued steel Bridgestone repaired where bits of the frame were damaged and corroded.

[xeney]

That's good to hear. I don't think people should count on that as a feature of steel bikes unless they know of a frame shop that will do it, though. Because I know some builders that make their own steel frames will absolutely not repair a damaged steel frame ... which I can understand, from a liability standpoint.

But I don't really mean that as a knock against steel. All but one of my bikes is steel; my husband has a whole stable of steel bikes. It's just that very often I see this cited as a selling point, and in our experience it turned out to be a lot harder to get a steel bike repaired than we'd been led to believe. Most damaged steel bikes get thrown away, just like other kinds of bikes that get damaged.

(The steel bike my husband was riding when he got hit by a car is still sitting in our basement because he was told it couldn't be fixed but he can't bring himself to toss it.)

[Geonz]

Economical. (I know, a bad word!!!)

I have aluminum and steel. On that fourth day of the week-long tour, steel is infinitely more comfortable. Aluminum inspired me to sing the carbon fiber wannabe blues :) (Other lesson learned : soft tires do not equal softer ride!)

[Veronica]

A non lugged frame is held together with welds or brazing. I think it's just prettier.

V.

[Pax]

A non lugged frame is held together with welds or brazing. I think it's just prettier.

V.

I get it now, lugged = no welds, non-lugged = welds. You're right, it would be much nicer looking without all the lumpy welds.

[mimitabby]

but lugged IS heavier. even the graceful lugs are.

[KnottedYet]

but lugged IS heavier. even the graceful lugs are.

The few ounces difference would more than be made up by me skipping that second slice of spam, and remembering to go pee before my ride...:D

Lugged is easier to repair, too.

[DebW]

With a lugged frame, a tube can be replaced by heating the lug to melt the brazing, slipping out the old tube and inserting a new one. Steel can also be bent and straightened to some extent. I am currently having a bent steel fork from my 1954 3-speed straightened.

[Veronica]

but lugged IS heavier. even the graceful lugs are.


My Legolas weighs just under twenty pounds. 13 ounces of that is my Brooks saddle.

I'm sure that seems heavy to some. But since I'm not a lightweight myself, I don't think another two pounds off the bike would make a difference.

V.

[SadieKate]

I get it now, lugged = no welds, non-lugged = welds. You're right, it would be much nicer looking without all the lumpy welds.Nope, not quite right either. Here's a little primer.

Lugged construction - includes brazing of the lugs to bond the tubes to the lugs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugged_steel_frame_construction

TIG Welded – Some materials require it, such as titanium. Ti masters (like Steve Potts) can make the weld a stunning necklace.
http://www.stevepottscycles.com/images/orig/seat_cluster.jpg

Fillet Brazing – this is NOT lumpy construction nor is it welding. The tube junctions should be absolutely smooth and is a measure of a builder’s technique. After painting, the tubes just flow into each other.
http://www.sandsmachine.com/bp_boh.htm

[Pax]

Sadie, excellent links, thanks! I guess my old Raleigh 10 speed (early 70's) was lugged.

[smilingcat]

okay few things about different material

steel:

first Lugged. Its an extra piece of metal fitting at the joints where the steel tubing meets. The tubing slides into the fitting and its either soldered or brazed together. The other option is to weld with beads of molten metal around the joint where the tubing meets.

Yes newer steel are lighter and are generally double butted meaning they are thicker toward the ends and the walls in the middle are thinner to reduce weight.

Steel also has the advantage of not work hardening as it ages but it can rust. It also can have that lively feel to it. That springy feel.

But it does suffer from metal fatigue (recreational riders may not ever see this) I've cracked my frame at the bottom bracket.:eek: :mad: :mad: Not fun.

I don't think steel tubes are hydro formed like aliminum, titanium and metal matrix composite. Hydro forming allowes the engineers to taylor the way the tubing behaves under load. The tubing is hydro formed when it has all those interesting curves and tapers.

Aluminum:

The aerospace grade of aluminum is generally used and though much stronger than usual aluminum alloy its modulus is still relatively low (stiffness) so to compensate, the tubings are usually oversized. And this leads to much stiffer frame. Good for large riders and not so good if you are petite. Cause bike builders don't necessarily change the diameter of the tubing for a smaller frame. So a small aluminum frame can be too rigid/too stiff and you get jarred loose...

Advantages are it doesn't rust.

downside is that the metal will work harden. meaning as it gets used it will get stiffer and more brittle with age. May crack without warning. (again rec riders need not worry). you can experience work hardening first hand by twisting those paper clip. At first its easy to twist them around. And it gets harder and harder and at some point, it will snap apart. This is work hardening.

Titanium:

veryhigh strength to weight ratio. It is only beaten by the carbon frame.

Advantages is extremely light due to its strength to weight ratio. But due to its high modulus, the bikes made of ti tends to be very springy. The bikes do flex more so than the aluminum where oversized tubes are used. and it doesn't rust.

disadvantages: mainly cost!!!

Carbon:

used to be that if you scratch, it severely compromised the strength of the tubing. (like glass is extremely strong but soon as you scratch it, it loses its strength 1000fold). Newer carbon don't seem to have this problem.

Extremely light frame can be made with it. and because the carbon fabric can be layed down according to how its going to be used, the tubing and the frame can be taylored to how stiff and how it flexes.

disadvantages: again cost!!! may not like to be mishandled.

Metal matrix composite: (reference to Griffen bike)

not too many around for me to give you an idea.

The engineering ability to design and predict how the frames behave have gotten so good that the bike could be built with any of the material listed such that it will be less than the min. weight rule of UCI.

The material, builder, style are more or less a personal choice today. As for performance, it depends on your lung, heart and yoouuurr leeegggss.

Besides, if you were to put:

The pirate (Marco Pantoni)
The train (Miguel Induran)
The flying dutchman (??? Riis)
or Lance on a beaten old beach cruiser, they'll still whip my butt no matter what kind of bike I'm on.

smilingcat

[mimitabby]

Besides, if you were to put:

The pirate (Marco Pantoni)
The train (Miguel Induran)
The flying dutchman (??? Riis)
or Lance on a beaten old beach cruiser, they'll still whip my butt no matter what kind of bike I'm on.

smilingcat

well, to even the playing field, make them ride with only 1 wheel!

[KnottedYet]

And one hand.

Then I might be able to keep up....

[DebW]

And one hand.

Then I might be able to keep up....

There have been one-handed bike racers who have competed very well. Ray Florman was born with only one hand and was Missouri state champion in 1936 and again in 1937. He was national champion in the 80-plus age group in 1998 at age 81. He owned the sister shop to the one I worked in from 1973 to 1976.

I've also known a rider with a withered leg. Even one-legged people can ride bikes, though the guy I knew would never win any speed contests.

[Eden]

There's a one legged guy around here who throws his falsie in a basket and pedals around with only one. I've heard he's actually pretty darn fast. Unfortunately he recently had is bike stolen :mad: