Distance Climbing Help

[Starfish]

Warning, this is long! I am training for a ride in August that is 100 miles with 10,000 feet of climbing. Below is a description of my weekly long ride yesterday, which was harder for me than I had hoped. :( Following that is my planned weekly progression. I would love comments, especially from you experienced distance climbers.

Yesterday, I really worked HARD to do my 50 miles with 3400 feet, and I am feeling pretty uncertain that in the next 12 weeks, I can make it up to 100 miles with 10,000 feet.

I feel OK today, although stiff. Yesterday I felt cooked about 40 miles in, and one climb in particular REALLY kicked my butt, and gave me a LOT of pain in my quads (although the pain subsided after the descent and back into easier climbing around 5%). I believe my nutrition/hydration was fine.

My ride yesterday was not a long steady climb, but relative flats punctuated with about 4 climbs, a couple with short sections of 13%-15%. The hardest was at about mile 40. A three mile climb with a stretch at the start of 15%, then leveling off to about 8-9%, then 5%. It toasted me.

However, the last 7-8 miles of the total ride, I was only up to about 3000 feet, and my goal was about 3500. So, I did a couple repeats of a 2 mile, steady 5% grade that makes up the last climb of the ride. I was tired, but when it dropped back to that 5%, I did OK and felt like I could keep going. I felt strong enough to repeat it to meet my climbing goal.

I was a little surprised it was so hard. :confused: Last week I did 21 miles with 3100 feet. A lot more concentrated climbing, and it was a lot easier on me. I guess the longer distance took more of a toll than I thought it might. Also, I think those couple of 13-15% sections toasted me more than the steady 9% or so of last week's ride.

Below are the benchmarks I am trying to hit once/week for my long rides, in order to stay on track and build up for my August ride. I am trying to keep the climbing increase to about 10% per week. It feels quite agressive, in practice. Also, as my long rides have increased, my workouts during the week have gotten fewer and shorter, to accomodate recovery. I'm wondering if that is wise...maybe I should be doing more frequency, with less volume on the long ride? But, those long rides seem important for endurance and climbing endurance? I wonder if I'm fooling myself that I can increase this fast. But, I want to keep trying. Any thoughts appreciated.

January & February were a walking program, moving into gym workouts, swimming, lifting, biking.

Weekly Long Rides. I have hit most of these numbers so far, with a little less climbing in the earlier weeks, and weeks of April 8 and 15, a LOT less exercise, and no long rides:

2/25 14 miles, 1250 feet (did this)
3/4 16 miles, 1380 feet (did 20 miles, 1800 feet)
3/11 18 miles, 1530 feet (did this)
3/18 10 miles, 1700 feet (did 26 miles, 855 feet)
3/25 22 miles, 1900 feet (did 36 miles, 1000 feet)
4/1 25 miles, 2100 feet (did 18 miles, 2300 feet)
4/8 27 miles, 2350 feet (no long ride, few workouts)
4/15 30 miles, 2600 feet (no long ride, few workouts)
4/22 32 miles, 2900 feet (did 39 miles, 2300 feet)
4/29 36 miles, 3200 feet (did 21 miles, 3100 feet)
5/6 40 miles, 3600 feet (did 50 miles, 3400 feet)
5/13 45 miles, 4000 feet
5/20 50 miles, 4500 feet (plan to do OCC metric, for 60 miles, 3000 feet)
5/27 54 miles, 5000 feet
6/3 60 miles, 5400 feet
6/10 65 miles, 6000 feet
6/17 72 miles, 6675 feet
6/24 80 miles, 7000 feet
7/1 65 miles, 6000 feet
7/8 72 miles, 6675 feet
7/15 81 miles, 7500 feet
7/22 90 miles, ? feet
Taper two weeks before Big Ride

Thanks for wading through this, climbing ladies! Thanks for any thoughts. :)

[maillotpois]

Your progression looks pretty good in theory. I'm coaching a group of riders for Team in Training to do the Death Ride in July, and I think my benchmarks are probably similar in terms of the increase in miles and climbing. We started in February and ultimately we'll have a 120 mile ride with about 11,000 feet as our longest ride. (The Death Ride is 130 feet, 14,000 climbing over 5 passes in the Sierras. We'll also have a weekend of riding the passes at altitude to prep them for this aspect of it.)

One thing we've done as we've gone along is to shake up our planned training rides a bit - go long one week and don't worry about the climbing, then go shorter the next and really climb. I'm trying to do some periodization with them, and see something like that in your end of June beginning of July that looks good. You can't just build, build, build all the time. You need to take even some of your long ride days and give your body a recovery ride.

Some days it is going to be harder than others - that's just a fact. Who knows why? Sleep, nutrition, hydration, stress, wind, heat - everything factors in. And I fully agree that a 12+% climb wastes me WAY more than mile upon mile of less than 10%. For me it is really a body weight issue. My power to weight ratio is fine for shallower climbing and my speed is decent. But throw in the double digit percentages, and it all starts to wear on me. Recovering from the steeper climbs when they become shallow is key - it sounds like you never fully recovered from the steep part. Use the more shallow grade to really spin out your legs - don't shift to a harder gear until your heart rate and breathing have really come down.

The LAST thing you should do is to tell yourself, well my training rides are a lot harder than I thought they'd be so I'm not going to do the event because I don't think I will be ready. Regardless of what your long ride turns out to be, I have seen people do remarkable things when energized by "event day". I had a woman I coached last year for Death Ride who had a nasty divorce going on and she wasn't able to make our training rides and she did all 5 passes. It was sheer determination. Never discount that mental aspect of it. That's largely how I finished DMD. Find what is it that inspires you and just keep that positive soundtrack rolling in your head.

[Starfish]

Sarah, thanks. A little addition info:

1) I have a "power to weight ratio" issue. ;) I am SLOWLY losing some weight, about 6 pounds in the past 6 weeks. Hope to keep that up right through July.

2) I am attempting some periodization by cutting way back on mid-week training time and intensity about every 3rd week, even if the long ride stays long.

3) Due to terrain where I live, as much as anything, I think I will also be alternating longer hilly rides with shorter truly mountain road climbing.

4) I do keep an eye on my HR monitor and gearing...for recovery from efforts...but, sometimes even my 30-32 low gear feels tough! LOL :p

I really appreciate the encouragement about not giving up on my goal before ride day. Yesterday after the hard climb, I had the choice between going up and over for a shorter, easier route back to my car, or going back down and doing the additional climbing to hit my goal. I told myself I was tougher than that and that I could do it. I felt toasted, but satisfied, at the end of my ride.

It sure helps to hear from those of you who have done a lot of climbing, and trained others. THANK YOU!!

[Starfish]

For pics of my routes, including yesterday's, check out the gallery at:

http://www.olympiccyclingclassic.com

[Veronica]

You are NOT giving up girl! You are making good progress. Stick with it. Besides there is no point in having a goal that you know you can achieve. Where's the challenge?

I too have a power to weight ratio issue. I will never be a little person. It kills me all these chicks who talk about weighing 120. That's how much my non fat bits weigh!

When I show up to a double century or a brevet, and look around at the other women riders, I often get this little voice in my head telling me I don't belong. I don't look like the other women. I'm 3 - 5 inches taller than the top double century riders and 30 - 50 pounds heavier. What am I doing there?

I kick the little voice's a$$ and go ride the ride. :D

V.

[maillotpois]

Starfish - the only thing I would change is truly to give yourself a periodization week - keeping even the long ride (in addition to the weekday stuff) easier every month or so.

[smilingcat]

Lets see I've done Death ride (fun ride)
Climb the Kaiser (those who do this poo poos the death ride)
race around the bear (timed 100 miler going up to a ski resort... over 7,000 ft of climb ??)
breathless in agony ride (another 100 miler with lots of hill climb)
and others.

Unless your ride has 10-15% grade, I wouldn't spend too much time on such a grade. Training on such hill doesn't seem to do much except to just grind you down. Instead concentrate on doing 5-8% grade over longer stretches. the 10-15% grade do appear on Death ride and on Kaiser pass but they are really short. On Ebetts (death ride), you find them on the switch backs. On Kaiser, its after the big creek and it lasts only 1/2 mile. And if you are used to riding 15 miles sections with 5% grade, you wil handle the 15% grade without too much difficulty. I wouldn't say its easy. Its doable. To a runup to you big event I think it would be prudent to ride a 75-95 miler rides with 7000ft climbs and repeat it maybe five times. During the week, you do need to add a rest day. You also need work on strength and endourance. Your speed on flat may decrease somewhat so don't be alarmed.

Also if possible train at altitude. You can lose more than 10% of your strength and stamina at altitude. Otherwise don't psyche yourself out of it.

Lots of luck and don't give up.

The secret of great hill climbers are they are all really tough mentally. Psyche first then physical.

now do take my comments with grain of salt cause I'm not a coach nor claim to be trainer. just my personal experience.

[maillotpois]

I actually think the higher grades do serve a purpose - it goes to what you say later, smilingcat, the mental aspect of it.

One of our Death Ride training rides is the second half of the Terrible Two course - Skaggs and Ft. Ross. Both of which have extended sections (up to 1/2 a mile) of 15+% grade. Getting up these, however they do it, gives our folks a real mental edge - especially when I tell them there is nothing on the Death Ride that's as hard as those sections.

It's the mental thing: "Well, I've done "X" ride, and this ride isn't as hard as that!"

[Fredwina]

My two bits:
I'll agree with MP, sometime doing harder grade will give you the confidence to do things- The start of Glendora Mountian Road has a nice steep pitch (about 8%) before leveling off to 5-6% for the next 12 miles. It always helps me to know that If I can make it to the gate, I can do the rest of it.
Alitude, I noticed this on my 300K in Arizona that I DNF'ed - From Flagstaff to Happy Jack it rolling, but I found myslef in easier gears - elevation was from 7000 to 7600. I've got another Brevet in month in Utah - 200K w/6000 feet and the starting point is at 6800. I've been debating going up and doing a loop around Big Bear lake and up to Onyx Summit. if only gas wasn't so dear.
Smiling Cat - I thought ride around the bear was closer to 9000 - you start about 1200, onyx is 8400 something, plus you've that descent into Big Bear on 18 and that "little" climb on the descent at Barton Flats

[smilingcat]

I didn't want to exagerate the bear ride's climb.

Yup start at Sylvan park then ride over to town of Highland then hop onto hwy 330? And you soon see a sign "elevation 2,000 ft". And you go &*^% Onyx summit is 84something... and you struggle and keep on. When you think you are half way up, you see a next sign "elevation 3,000 ft"...

Train from Big bear lake to Onyx summit is a good work out. Some local clubs make a habit of making an extended weekend trip up to Big bear and train.

Go up to onyx, come down turn around and go back up. Good training. (except one year one of the girls crashed into a tree and had 5 metal pins in her wrist. That was a bad year for the club.)

Another place to train is over in Eastern Sierra. I used to go to mamouth mtn. and ride over dead man's pass into June lake area then onto Lee Vining then up conway pass. Also some people stay at Lee Vining and climb Tioga pass around 10,000ft elevation. Actually number of people do this like 3 to 4 weeks before Death ride as a warm up ride. If you can do the Tioga pass, you can do the death ride.

----

hey you are in Rancho Cucamanga. You are lot closer to Big bear than me (Hermosa Beach) What are you talking about gas price!!! Its 90 miles to the base and another 20 miles to big bear.
meowmeow
Smilingcat

[Starfish]

Thanks, everyone. No, V, I'm NOT giving up! And, MP, I am sure you are right about the periodization. I got worried about getting up to enough climbing if I used a few weeks for just recovery rides here and there, but I'm sure it is time well spent.

Part of riding the harder grades is that there are only so many roads where I live. We don't have many long climbs. We have one mountain road. And we have a gazillion foothills with roads that create a few loops. And, I don't have an elevation profile for the event ride, so I can't be sure there aren't some steep pitches.

I will get some training in at elevation. Our highest road only goes up to 5000 feet (in 19 miles!), but the snow is finally melting up there, so soon I can get up there and do repeats of the last few miles for elevation.

Thank you all so very much. It has been a hard year, and I really, really want to have fun and success on my goal ride this year. I need a lot of encouragement, and I am so grateful that when I unabashedly ask for it, you come through! What wonderful people! :)

[bikegirlnhawaii]

Starfish,

Sounds like a fun ride. The progression is good. Might I suggest you put in one "intensity" ride a week? Shorter, but intervals....but it depends on your overall fitness level...which after the rides you've been doing, looks to be good!

20 minute intervals at a pace that is just above the "no talk" zone (you could talk if you had to, but it would be rather short and annoying to do so! :p ), rest 5-10 min and repeat. Don't do these above 7% avg grade (5% is ideal). Aim for 1 the first time, then the next week, add another, or a partial interval. If you use HR, aim for 80-85%.

It's really hard, but the increase in your overall fitnes will benefit you greatly in several ways: increased fatburning, increased aerobic endurance, and a faster pace on the climbs overall, among them.

My fav climb here is a 10,000 ft climb (0-10,000ft) in 36.2 miles. Epic is the best description!

Good luck with everything...keep us posted on your progress!

aloha,
KJ

[Veronica]

I've been looking for an elevation profile for the ride (Mount Shasta Summit Century btw.) There are a few rider comments on the website that talk about 10 -12% grades going on for four miles. That could be an exaggeration of course.

They do have a map on the website and maybe one day, when I'm feeling ambitious or bored, I can put it into Bikely. That would give us a profile.

V.

[Veronica]

My fav climb here is a 10,000 ft climb (0-10,000ft) in 36.2 miles. Epic is the best description!



Which volcano would that be? :p

V.

[Starfish]

My fav climb here is a 10,000 ft climb (0-10,000ft) in 36.2 miles. Epic is the best description! KJ

Holy Cow, KJ...epic, yes.

Thanks for the tips on the intervals. Earlier this year I had been doing some easier intervals in the gym while trying to keep my HR lower out on the roads. Then, when I started doing harder loops, I figured I was getting in some de facto intervals. But, Veronica talked me into going to a spin class this morning, and I intend to keep doing that once/week. Way harder than I keep up on my own out on the road.

I am thinking 50 minutes HARD in spinning on Tuesdays, and the de facto intervals during my long rides Saturdays. Filling in with recovery rides and aerobic workouts in the gym. I'm not a real high volume person, yet. I have bumped it up from about 5 hours/week in February to about 7 hours/week these days.

[Starfish]

20 minute intervals at a pace that is just above the "no talk" zone (you could talk if you had to, but it would be rather short and annoying to do so! :p ), rest 5-10 min and repeat. Don't do these above 7% avg grade (5% is ideal). Aim for 1 the first time, then the next week, add another, or a partial interval. If you use HR, aim for 80-85%.

LOL, I just re-looked at your recommendation to aim for 80-85%...I am so out of shape that I am still in that range often for my climbing miles...miles on end! On my mountain road, I have been letting myself stop every 15-20 minutes to let my HR drop for a couple minutes before resuming. So, I think I have been doing these! :)

[IFjane]

Starfish - I live virtually at sea level (about 1000 ft. elevation here at my house), but go to the Rockies every summer to ride. The only thing I would add to what everyone else has said is to really pay attention to heartrate. I don't rely so much on percentage as I do the actual number. Through the years I have learned that I can ride at altitude (7,000 ft. and over) if I keep my heartrate below a certain number. Above that and I crack because of lack of oxygen. I am not and never will be a fast climber, slow and steady is more my style, but eventually I make it to the top.

[Starfish]

I don't rely so much on percentage as I do the actual number.

I can relate to this. I haven't done a field test to see what my TT HR is for a long time, so I'm not completely clear on my HR percentages these days. But, I am getting a pretty good read of how long I can go at various actual HRs, and how they affect me later, etc.

Thanks for your post. Makes a lot of sense.

[Starfish]

BTW, I just posted a new thread/question called:
Should I do the metric, or the whole thing?

Would like to invite you ladies to weigh in, if you feel like it!

[GLC1968]

I know I'm a little late coming in here but in addition to all the good advice you've already gotten, there is one thing I want to add.

My husband and I had been training to do some local mountain centuries as well. We live in the foothills with about 3 or 4 mountain climbs within 50 miles of us, so we have to get a little creative to do the heavy elevation days. One thing I read in my training research has really stuck in my head. I forget who wrote this, but they compared building your climbing ability to body building (or muscle gain). Your body does it's best work when you are RESTING. You build strength and muscle when at rest, not when you are riding. This is why periodization is such a huge buzz word in all sporting events. You need to have periods that are quite a bit of a departure from your overall goal to ensure consistent injury-free progression and to prevent over-training. I think MP mentioned a week where you do the miles but not the elevation followed by a week where you cut the miles short and ramp up the elevation. This is what we have worked into our schedule and it's not only nice for variety (mentally) but it was truly helping my body. I swear that the first long ride with elevation we did after the two week alternating rotation schedule seemed MUCH easier. I think that the week of short miles and big elevation really pushed my legs further than they had ever gone, and then the rest days followed by the long ride just helped them recover. It truly showed in my performance only two weeks later.

Anyway, just some things to think about. I am by no means an expert and unfortunately, due to a crazy work schedule followed by an illness followed by another crazy work schedule, I've now been off the bike for 5 weeks and had to miss our first event of the year. :( I feel like I'm starting at square one myself and this past weekend's 60 mile, moderately hilly ride pretty much proved it. Ah well...that's the beauty of the human body...it'll adapt again. :)

[IFjane]

GLC - I am really interested in some specifics on your periodization schedule. How far are your long rides & how far the climbing ones (with how much climbing?)? The problem I have up here is that we have LOTS of rolling hills with great climbs, but not too many sustained ones. Because of the restricted access to the Shenandoah Natl. Park (my county borders it), we have to drive a long way to find routes with sustained climbs to the top of the mountains. I would like to throw some of your workouts in before we head to CO for the Triple Bypass this year. Anything you can tell me will be greatly appreciated!

I understand your frustration from being off the bike for 5 weeks. I, too, am trying to play catch-up with my training. Hang in there!

[maillotpois]

GLC was referring to my post about the group I am coaching for the Death Ride (130 miles, 14,000 feet) - where we're building their distance and climbing, and I have been doing some alternating of what we're pushing week to week - and also giving them some true periodization in there as well. They seem to be doing great with it, and I think they'll do well at their event.

So a typical (mid-season) progression for them would be:

50 miles, 4000 feet
65 miles, 5000 feet
75 miles, 6500 feet
50 miles, 4000 feet
80 miles, 6500 feet
125 miles, 7000 feet
90 miles, 8700 feet
50 miles, 4000 feet

Alternating the (relatively) short rides with a lot of climbing, like our last ride - 90 miles with 8700 feet - with long rides with less climbing kind of edges them up for both the distance and the climbing components wihtout overworking them. In the next month, they'll have two 100 - 120 milers with 10 - 12,000 feet, alternating with easier rides, including a century with about 6000 feet and some riding passes at altitude.

What's great is seeing how the rides they used to think were super hard are now easy. That's the point! :)

[IFjane]

Ok, gotcha! Thank you for the clarification. I had forgotten about your earlier post (didn't go back and read it this afternoon).

[GLC1968]

Yep, what MP said!

I can also give you a more moderate picture of what we were doing prior to my work/illness issue.

An example of one 'cycle':
wk 1: 65 miles, 4500 ft climbing
wk 2: 55 miles, 5500 ft climbing - this was tougher than it looks because those climbs were much steeper than our normal terrain in order to get to 5500 ft in only 55 miles
wk 3: 85 miles rolling terrain (probably 2500 feet overall)
wk 4: 75 miles, 6000 climbing

After doing this just once, I noticed that wk 4 was MUCH easier for me than week 1 was, on the same general terrain. There could have been other conditions that made it seem easier, but I do recall that many of the climbs we had done in wk 1 that were repeated in wk 4 (we did both rides in the same county) were 'flatter' to us. I also know that after completing some of the climbs of wk 2, everything seemed easier in comparison (though that was definitely a mental benefit).

Week 5 was to be another shorter, steeper route, but that's when I got slammed with work.... :mad:

Oh, and two other benefits to training like this are 1) that you can get to total fatigue in a shorter distance on some of those weeks like wk 2, so they are a bit easier to fit into the rest of life's schedule. And 2) if you have to travel to get to the bigger hills/climbs, you don't have to do that travel every weekend.

[Starfish]

These examples, and the advice with them, are really helpful. It is great for me to see some jumps in mileage from 65-85, for instance. I understand that the climbing alters the distances, but even so, it is good for me to see the large jumps in mileage.

I have tended in the past to be so afraid of burning myself out (it has happened!), that I adhere to the no-more-than-10%-per-week rule of progression. That can get tedious and uninspiring.

I am liking the alternating longer, flatter weeks with the shorter, steeper weeks.

GLC, thanks much for weighing in :) ...I'm sorry for your work overload! :(

[Starfish]

An example of one 'cycle':
wk 1: 65 miles, 4500 ft climbing
wk 2: 55 miles, 5500 ft climbing - this was tougher than it looks because those climbs were much steeper than our normal terrain in order to get to 5500 ft in only 55 miles
wk 3: 85 miles rolling terrain (probably 2500 feet overall)
wk 4: 75 miles, 6000 climbing


Ummmm...so which week is the regeneration week? Week #4 doesn't exactly look like an easy week, compared to weeks 1-3? :confused:

[GLC1968]

Ummmm...so which week is the regeneration week? Week #4 doesn't exactly look like an easy week, compared to weeks 1-3? :confused:

The idea is that week 2 and week 3 work your muscles in different ways, so essentially, week 2 is 'resting' from distance and week 3 is 'resting' from climbing. Then, when you put them together, you are stronger.

This is also assuming that you are taking some off-bike rest days during the week. After the crazy climbing weekend, I did an easy spin day (literally, easy...15 miles tops) and then took 2 full days of rest. Had we been closer to the target date, I might have only taken one rest day, but two felt like the right thing to do at the time. :D

Another point of note, if you are stressing your muscles more than normal, you want to make sure that your diet contains plenty of lean protien and plenty of fruits and veggies so that it has all the fuel it needs to build and recover. Good quality sleep is also essential.

Oh, and the 65 to 85 mile jump is only because we were already doing rides of that length and our goal was to be able to go that distance AND climb. If your longest ride ever is more like 45 miles (as an example), I wouldn't make regular 20 mile distance jumps. Even if your muscles can handle it, it's probably not so great for tendons, ligaments, connective tissue, etc. This is even more true for those of us whose bodies aren't 20 anymore! ;)

[maillotpois]

I'd actually add in a week here and there of both shorter distance and climbing. True periodization. But it's what works for you that's important. (And I have to say that I have not been that good about the shorter weekend rides myself because of the events I've been doing, and I do tend more to take the rest time for the off weeks during the weekdays instead. But I do make sure to put in a week here and there in the calendar for the people I'm training for DR.)

[Starfish]

This all makes a lot of sense, and I really appreciate your input and discussion. Saturday is an organized ride, and it fits in well with the alternating long vs. climb weekend. It will be 70 miles with about 3000 feet, whereas last weekend was 40 miles with 5100 feet.

And, I am really tired today...I think next week is going to be a true regeneration week.

[Starfish]

Well, on Saturday I did an organized ride of 69 miles with 3445 feet. This included about 4-5 short climbs of higher grades that sent my HR into the red.

This ride turned out to be harder for me than I had hoped. It was definitely harder than last week's long ride, which was 40 miles with 5100 feet of steady mountain climbing. I seem to be weaker on the longer distances with relatively less climbing, but with higher % spikes in climbing.

I notice that as my weekend rides have gotten harder (and I have added a hard spinning class on Tuesdays), I am doing fewer aerobic workouts during the week, and more recovery.

I wonder if my aerobic endurance is eroding, or wasn't that great to begin with? I am considering doing a 10 day endurance overload block to boost it. Chris Carmichael did his Bicycling column about this a month or two ago. I would do a regeneration 6 days, then a 10 day block of longer, back to back, aerobic endurance rides, then a few days of recovery again.

I have about 10 weeks before my goal event. I am thinking this would be a 3 week endurance block, and then I could get back to a couple more blocks of climbing & intervals?

Or, should I just stick with the alternating long rides that we have been discussing here?

I feel like a babe in the woods with these training plan ideas. I am grateful for any thoughts (haha...these days, my thoughts are so few and far between! LOL :p )

[Veronica]

Were you eating and drinking enough on your ride yesterday?

Can you control your heart rate during a climb to keep yourself from spiking? I can set my HRM to beep if my HR gets too high or too low on a ride. When it's too high, I control it by either down shifting if I can or slowing my cadence slightly and breathing evenly.

V.

[Starfish]

Were you eating and drinking enough on your ride yesterday? Can you control your heart rate during a climb to keep yourself from spiking?
V.

1) Eating enough is always a challenge on early morning starts. I ate about 1000 calories spread out over the ride...starting about 1.5 hrs before the ride (when I woke up). Accelerade, banana, bagel & PB, Power Bar, yogurt. Got up at 6am, on the road by 7:15. I am on an afternoon/evening work schedule, so don't get to sleep until midnight or 1am, usually. Getting up too early to eat gets brutal.

2) I do use my HRM & zones...I can keep myself from spiking up to about 11% climbs. When the hills are shorter (1/8-1/4 mile) but go into 14-16%, I really can't, yet. Even in granny with slow cadence, my HR soars. It comes down nice and fast, but it gets way up there.

[maillotpois]

some rides turn out to be harder than they "should" be. often it's impossible to know why. V's questions about food and HR are on point.

I think you will have more endurance/recovery zone stuff during the week as your weekend rides get harder. but don't forget to try a day or 2 in there of harder interval training. I think that's what I've been missing and I paid for it yesterday.

that Carmichael plan sounds good. you can never go wrong with a base building week thrown in. and I think you have plenty of time to try it out.

[Starfish]

don't forget to try a day or 2 in there of harder interval training. I think that's what I've been missing and I paid for it yesterday.

I've been wondering if I'm just trying to do too much. Improve my climbing, my speed, and my endurance, all at once.

The more I read on these forums, and when I ride around other people, I am realizing that I am a seriously slow rider. Sometimes I wonder if I am biting off bigger goals than I can chew right now.

But, I am NOT giving up on this Shasta goal. Even if I can't finish, I'll have a fun ride and learn more about what I can do.

[maillotpois]

It is tough to try to improve climbing speed, endurance and overall speed all at once (as you noticed I'm struggling with this a bit myself!). It's all a big balance. I find that my speed only really increases when I am riding with people who are faster than I am, which I haven't been enough this year. Climbing speed and endurance I can work on by myself, but overall speed I really need to push myself by riding above my level.

And while maybe you won't be as fast as some, I truly believe that everyone can work on speed and get faster - or at the very least become more comfortable riding the pace that suits them, if that makes sense. So don't give up on working on it!

[Geonz]

Yep, what MP said!

I can also give you a more moderate picture of what we were doing prior to my work/illness issue.

An example of one 'cycle':
wk 1: 65 miles, 4500 ft climbing
wk 2: 55 miles, 5500 ft climbing - this was tougher than it looks because those climbs were much steeper than our normal terrain in order to get to 5500 ft in only 55 miles
wk 3: 85 miles rolling terrain (probably 2500 feet overall)
wk 4: 75 miles, 6000 climbing

After doing this just once, I noticed that wk 4 was MUCH easier for me than week 1 was, on the same general terrain. There could have been other conditions that made it seem easier, but I do recall that many of the climbs we had done in wk 1 that were repeated in wk 4 (we did both rides in the same county) were 'flatter' to us. I also know that after completing some of the climbs of wk 2, everything seemed easier in comparison (though that was definitely a mental benefit).

Week 5 was to be another shorter, steeper route, but that's when I got slammed with work.... :mad:

Oh, and two other benefits to training like this are 1) that you can get to total fatigue in a shorter distance on some of those weeks like wk 2, so they are a bit easier to fit into the rest of life's schedule. And 2) if you have to travel to get to the bigger hills/climbs, you don't have to do that travel every weekend.

Okay, I"m confused. In week one you ride 65 miles? Or is that every day? (I'm justcurious. Hills are a little hard to find here, as are long distance events...)

[Starfish]

Climbing speed and endurance I can work on by myself, but overall speed I really need to push myself by riding above my level.


You know, I am really tired. I looked back at my log, as well as the events of the past couple months, and I see that I have good reason. Of course the personal stuff, but also, I have been building volume and climbing for 5 weeks in a row now. I am going to take about 6 total regeneration days now and start that endurance block with low climbing for 10 days. After recovering from that, I'll do a long climbing ride to see where I am.

I had been thinking to keep up these spinning rides to help with speed, because they are so hard for me...but I don't know if I can do that intensity plus really push my climbing volume too? I guess I'll find out. ;)

Sure do appreciate all the encouragement and wisdom. Thanks!!!

[GLC1968]

Okay, I"m confused. In week one you ride 65 miles? Or is that every day? (I'm justcurious. Hills are a little hard to find here, as are long distance events...)

That 65 miles was one weekend ride. The schedule I posted was only my weekend long rides. I also ride during the week at least a couple of times (more, if I'm commuting) and do some other activities. If schedule permits, I also try to do a ride on the opposing weekend day either as a recovery ride or as some other type of training (usually a short ride).