Is my LBS doing a good job?

[stpbound]

Hi gals,

Yet another bike shopping saga...

OK. So, yesterday,I went into Gregg's Greenlake (Seattle) to check out road bikes.

I talked about fit with the guy, and he said that his job was to get us bikes that fit right.

The guy asked me how tall I was and then pulled some bikes out. He had me stand over the bikes to make sure I had about 1" of clearance. Then, I sat on all the bikes (with him holding them), grabbed the handlebars, and he asked, "How's that feel?"

I'm thinking, "How the heck should I know? I've NEVER been on a road bike before!!" So, somehow through my confused feedback, he determined that this one LeMond bike was a "good fit" and sent me on a test ride.

I felt so perched up there and like I was going to fall, and there was SO much pressure on my wrists. The brakes were barely reachable, which was totally nerve-racking being that I was on a road! Needless to say, I didn't really enjoy that test ride. :eek: Though, I must also add, that most of the ride, I was trying to figure out how to ride the bike...where to put my hands to be able to brake, how to sit on the thing, how to stop without falling!

I came back and told him that the thing was uncomfortable..that I felt way too hunched over. He said I didn't look too hunched over, but that my posture could use some work. I was out of time yesterday, so I had to leave after he gave me some pointers of how to improve my posture.

Today, I went back. He pulled down a Specialized Sequoia for me which has a longer head tube (I think that's what it's called...the part where the stem comes out of). It was way more comfortable. I was much more upright, and I liked it. I rode it on a trainer. Still, I felt a bit uncomfortable in my neck and shoulders and wrists. To alleviate the wrist thing, he tried moving the handlebars away from me, but that seemed to make me have to reach more, which I didn't like.

He called over another guy who agreed that the fit looked good. So now, they're ordering a 2007 Specialized Roubaix Triple in my size for me to try.

Does it sound like they've done what they can to get the initial fit right? I fully intend to get a professional fitting (from Gregg's or somewhere else) and make adjustments after I purchase a bike. But, how can I know that they've done what they can to get me the right initial fit?

Do other bike shops do more to find the right initial fit than to have the customer stand over the bike, check the clearance, sit them on the bike, check over their upper body and arms, and ask them how it feels? (Quite honestly, none of the bikes I've tried have felt awesome, but I'm guessing that might have something to do with the fact that I'm very used to sitting upright on my hybrid and the road bike position feels weird).

How "right" should it be before the professional $150 fitting?

I'm so glad all you experienced ladies are here to help me. I'm so grateful. :)

stpbound

[Batbike]

all I can say is: do NOT buy a bike until AFTER you are fitted!! you don't want a bike "fixed to fit you", you want YOU to fit the bike!!

a proper fit is based on a series of body measurements, personal flexibility, riding style, and riding goals -- it is not how a shop employee thinks you look on the bike ... be careful.

[mimitabby]

It sounds like yes, they are really trying; but read Pooks' story, which echoes mine. It took me weeks before I felt somewhat safe riding my road bike after a lifetime of the other style.

I think the biggest adjustment is in your head. (and was in my head too)
They know enough to get you within batting range of "your size" and then yes, the fitting, which should be discounted if you are buying a bike from them (IMHO) should dial you in right where you need to be.

[dex]

My best suggestion (keeping in mind that I'm new to the world of bikes) would be to go to as many places as you can and try out as many different bikes as you can convince the shops to let you put your butt on. It wasn't until the third or fourth test ride that I did that I started feeling like I was comfortable enough on the bike to actually communicate the experience to the bike store employees trying to help me...and then I went back and rode all of those first few bikes again, to see how they compared after I felt like I had a better idea of what felt "good".

I mentioned in another of your threads that I bought my bike from Gregg's Greenlake, and I'm still thrilled with it. I ended up buying the one that "felt the best", and still feel like I made the right choice. Now that I've ridden it a bit, and done one longish ride, I've scheduled a fit session (for this Friday...yay!) to get some of the little things dialed in. For me, because I have some shyness issues that make it hard to communicate unless I'm speaking from a position of knowledge, it seemed better to wait until I'd spent some time on the bike before doing that...I just thought this might make it easier to talk to the person doing the fitting.

[Kathi]

Hmmm, I'm not a beginner cyclist and my last bike fitting was for a custom frame so I will approach with the experience that my friend had with bike fitting. She was with me when I ordered my bike so maybe she got better service because of me.

The guy, not my fitter, explained to her the 3 contact points that are important in bike fit, hands, foot on pedal, saddle. Then he went over the differerent geometries of bikes, explaining the differences between hybrids, road bikes etc.

He then eyeballed her and tried her on a 51 cm bike. He had her stand over it and decided it was too big so he put her on the 47 cm bike. He adjusted the saddle and I think the handlebars. She took it out for a ride and he observed her position. At first she was very nervous but soon relaxed and loved the bike. However, it was a $3,000 Serotta and she "wasn't going to pay that much for a bike".

She went to another shop that sold Treks (I'm getting this part of the story second hand). The first guy put her on a 50 cm Pilot and she test rode it. She liked it but didn't think it felt as good fitwise as the Serotta. To make a long story short they found a 47cm, a different guy went out and watched her ride and thought it was a good fit.

However, she didn't buy the bike there. My friend is from Cincinnati and she went to a Serotta fitter there, got a fitting and from the fitting determined that the Pilot was a good fit so she bought it.

When you say you feel all hunched over, do you feel like the woman in the picture on the TE banner? Are you bending from the waist or from the hips? Do you have a bend in your elbows or are they locked?

Personally, I wouldn't accept the "posture" comment. I went to the best fitter at the time in Cincy, thought they fit my bike perfectly, but I still had shoulder pain. The guy rechecked my position and told me I looked great on the bike. I was sliding forward, hunching my back, not very comfortable on the bike. I took the bike for a refit at a different shop. Serotta fitter, a woman that a lot of the women I rode with loved. It turned out my handlebars were 4 cm too low!

If they get you in a neutral position, then the handlebars can be raised or lowered as needed.

Here is picture of me on my new bike. This is what they call a neutral postion. From here I can go lower or higher. I do not have neck or shoulder pain or hunch my back and I'm bending from the hips.

Keep searching and don't rush into anything until your sure. You can't make the wrong size bike fit and I still see a lot of people riding bikes that don't fit.

[salsabike]

I feel strongly that NO, they did not do enough. Get the bike fit as part of deciding what bike you want to buy, not afterwards when your adjustment options are limited. Batbike said it exactly right!!

[lovemybike]

My first road bike was fitted my what the LBS owner thought looked correct for me...however I was never comfortable and had major problems with my knees and elbows. I talked to other riders and went to a different shop. They had this really interesting laser fitting setup where the measure you hips, legs, torso, arms, etc. all these numbers are entered into a computer and they go from there depending on the type bike you are riding. Come to find out my bike was too big. I sold that bike, bought a new one and was laser fitted for that bike. NO more problems.

Be careful just going by height. Turns out my torso is short compared to my height, and my arms were short as well. Meaning I needed a talled bike leg wise, but shorter in the reach to the handlebars.

Just my story, hope it helps, hope you get a good fit.

[KnottedYet]

I second (or is it third?) what everyone has said about how you need to be fitted BEFORE you buy a bike!

If you were shopping for jeans, you'd want to know what size you were FIRST: what looked good, didn't fall down, didn't give you a wedgie, and covered your ankles.

You wouldn't buy a pair of jeans that felt odd but that the shop folks said "looked right" and then take them to a seamstress to have them nipped and tucked and lengthened!

(BTW, moving from an upright to a road bike is different, but shouldn't be screamingly uncomfortable!)

[pooks]

Okay, so if you're supposed to get the bike fit first --

Does that mean you choose which shop you're going to use first? Because does it do any good to get fit at one shop if you end up buying a different kind of bike from a different shop? Do you have to get fit again?

I'm confused about this part of the process.

[KnottedYet]

Because does it do any good to get fit at one shop if you end up buying a different kind of bike from a different shop? Do you have to get fit again?

Nope. If you get a complete (the kind that you pay for) bike fit they will give you a print-out of all your angles and measurements and preferences. You can take that to any bike shop and they will (or at least should) use that to help you choose a bike they stock.

Kinda like getting all your inseam, hips, rise, waist measurements and drape preferences from a seamstress and then using that to choose a pair of jeans that match those measurements. Doesn't matter if they're Levis or Lucky's or size 12 or size 14, if they match the measurements they match your needs.

And if the salesperson doesn't know their stock well enough to be able to use your fit info, ask for someone with more experience.

[pooks]

Does that mean it doesn't do any good to test ride until you've had a fit? (Um, gotten fitted?)

OH, and I forgot to say, thanks for that pic, Kathi. Your explanation and picture were very helpful.

[mimitabby]

Knot, I never got one of those, not from Sammamish, not from R & E (where they fitted us to our tandem for $$) and not from Erik Moen!

[KnottedYet]

Knot, I never got one of those, not from Sammamish, not from R & E (where they fitted us to our tandem for $$) and not from Erik Moen!

But you already had your bike, and they adjusted the bike you brought in to them. It was a retrofit for the Bianchi, wasn't it? Didn't you say Davidson go measurements from your Bianchi for your new bike?

Pooks - Test ride, test ride, test ride! Eyeballing fits are good enough for test rides. Ride LOTS of bikes! That's how you figure out your preferences! Keep notes on everything, start telling shop folks what you know you like so they set the test bike up the best way for you. (for example, I know I like the bars even with or slightly above the saddle; so when I go for a test ride I have the shop folks set the saddle first, then raise the bars, before I ever take the bike out.) RIDE LOTS!!! But before you *purchase* a bike, have a fit :D so you can buy the frame that will suit you. (and many shops will deduct the price of the fit from the price of the bike you buy from them)

You can change components and raise and lower seat and bars and scootch them around for reach and such, but you can't change the frame. When you make an investment in a bike, you want a frame you'll not later wish you could change.

[pooks]

Pooks - Test ride, test ride, test ride! Eyeballing fits are good enough for test rides. Ride LOTS of bikes! That's how you figure out your preferences!

But before you *purchase* a bike, have a fit :D so you can buy the frame that will suit you. (and many shops will deduct the price of the fit from the price of the bike you buy from them)


Oh, good. That's what I'd been thinking, but I wanted to make sure. Thanks.

[salsabike]

I did get those, first from a Fit Kit computer printout at R&E, and then later from Erik Moen. Still have those stats, and took them with me when I went road bike shopping, so I could say, "I want to look at bikes only with top tubes that are within THIS length range." And that whole standover height/eyeball-the-fit approach is EXACTLY the too-quick, let's-sell-a-bike approach that gets people into bikes that don't fit. Sorry. I feel strongly about this one. What stpbound described in her original post in this thread is NOT even close to being a good bike fit.

[Kathi]

I have the information from all my fittings, including the refit on my Aegis. However, I did have to ask my last shop for the information. I figured I paid for it and am entitled to it.The numbers are very handy to have in case something gets changed, ie. I had my Aegis repainted and all the components had to come off. While it was being repainted I moved to Colorado. Because I had all the numbers the new shop was able to put the components right back where they belonged, no time spent trying to figure it all out again.

Pooks, I don't know what other fit systems do if you don't have a bike but Serotta fitters have an adjustable bike called the "Sizecycle". The fitter takes your measurements, sets the sizecycle up and you can ride it to see how it feels. If you don't feel right they can make adjustments until you're comfortable.

When I had my Aegis refitted we found out that my handlebars were 4cm too low. The fitter explained that I would need a new fork and stem in order to raise the handlebars. I was waivering on spending the money thinking that 4cm wasn't that much. Then she set up the sizecycle and I could feel the difference. It was unbelievable so I made the changes to the bike. She also told me to get "optimal" fit I should get a custom frame. I put another 10,000 miles on my Aegis before I went with custom, so the $500 in changes was well spent.

Bikes shops used to cut the steerer tube after they fitted you. I don't know how many do this anymore but if the shop mentions doing this do not let them until you're absolutely sure you want that done. If the steerer tube is cut you have no flexibility in raising or lowering the handlebars. That's what caused the problems with my Aegis.

[Batbike]

just a note ...

you can do your own measurements to get started in "general ranges" of bikes to test ride. doing your own measurements may be all the info you need to get started and buy the proper frame size, once you have the info and start test riding bikes to get different feels. sometimes a bit of info and trial and error can get you a great fit! if you go to Serotta, Cramerotti, (I believe) Colorado Cyclist, or any other site that customizes or sells bike frames, they usually have a few measurements they ask you to take to ensure you are ordering the correct size. The info is there ... why not use it?! use their measurement requirements to get your personal "range of measurements". personally, I feel this is good info for everyone to have if they are into riding a bike -- body measurements, and flexibility tests. I have done this and it is very helpful.

now, a professional bike fit is excellent info to have and use, if needed. my understanding is there are two types: 1. Custom fitting where you start from scratch, using no previous bike, and get measurements that you could use to build your dream custom bike, and 2. Custom fitting to maximize your position/fit on bike currently owned. I believe Serotta fit system does both, using the fit cycle and/or personal frame to fit you. either way, they take your measurements, test your flexibilty, and ask a series of "how you ride" questions to help determine proper fit. Serotta is NOT the only fit system, but they set the standard for many fit systems.

[stpbound]

Pooks - Test ride, test ride, test ride! Eyeballing fits are good enough for test rides. Ride LOTS of bikes!

OK. I know I'm probably being dense and making some of you pull out your hair with my incessant questions, BUT....if you FIRST test ride bikes that are eyeballed for a fit instead of test riding AFTER the professional fitting, what exactly are you looking for in the test ride?

Wouldn't it make more sense (and save time) to get the professional fit done first, then ONLY test ride the bikes that meet the numbers that have been derived from the fit?

stpbound :)

[dex]

Wouldn't it make more sense (and save time) to get the professional fit done first, then ONLY test ride the bikes that meet the numbers that have been derived from the fit?

But what's the harm in test riding? It's test riding, not test buying. It costs you nothing, except some time, and everytime you get on a bike you're getting a little more acquainted with being in that road bike position, and you may just figure out a few things that work or don't work for you while you're waiting for a fitting appointment.

[pooks]

BUT....if you FIRST test ride bikes that are eyeballed for a fit instead of test riding AFTER the professional fitting, what exactly are you looking for in the test ride?

Wouldn't it make more sense (and save time) to get the professional fit done first, then ONLY test ride the bikes that meet the numbers that have been derived from the fit?


I've test riddent four bikes so far, and I feel my body "learning" every time I get on a new one. I am feeling differences, and beginning to identify what they are. Which means I'm better able to describe them and analyze them when talking to the LBS guys. I think trying a bike that doesn't fit is just as educational as trying those that do, because how do you know what feels good if you've never felt bad?

[stpbound]

I've test riddent four bikes so far, and I feel my body "learning" every time I get on a new one. I am feeling differences, and beginning to identify what they are. Which means I'm better able to describe them and analyze them when talking to the LBS guys. I think trying a bike that doesn't fit is just as educational as trying those that do, because how do you know what feels good if you've never felt bad?

Good point, Pooks.

[salsabike]

Pooks is right. That does help you start figuring out what feels okay and what doesn't. Just feel free to be firm that you're not buying yet. Then get the fit, come back with your numbers, and start narrowing down the test ride bikes. It works! And it's a whole lot more fun when you feel like you're in control of your decisions rather than a bike saleman. It really helps to have the info.

Questions are good!