Help Pooks Find a New Bike

[pooks]

Okay --

First test ride -- I went to the LBS I like the best and walked in and said I was ready to test ride some road bikes, that I had a heavy hybrid and now that I was riding more I really wanted/needed a bike that would be better suited, plus my current bike doesn't fit me.

The guy was professional, listened to me, and was (probably) trying to size me up (needs-wise, not otherwise, fresh!).

So I first asked, "Do you have any steel bikes?"

Well, yes, but he doesn't recommend them, it's the cheapest road bike they carry, $500, which is around $300 less than their other entry-level bikes, but....

"Well, a lot of people love steel bikes."

He said, "Not this steel. This is just, STEEL." He said that people who were telling me how much they loved steel bikes were riding much more expensive bikes, yada yada ...

Well, I just wanted to "move right along" so I said, okay, show me what you've got.

This is where the "sizing up" took place. He pulled out a Specialized Allez to show me, said it was entry-level, showed me a couple of things about it, then took me to a different row to show me another kind of bike --

http://bikemart.com/itemdetails.cfm?catalogId=39&id=1317

Well, first off, I love the burnt orange color (and it's also a bike I'd seen on the internet and bookmarked to check out) but when he said it was a fitness bike with a less extreme ... you know, whatever you say about standing on your head to ride a road bike -- this one is less extreme so I guess you just, oh, stand on your shoulders? ( can't recall his exact description) I said, "You know, I may end up needing that, but I'd like to try real road bikes first and see what they feel like and move backwards if I need to."

So we took the Allez to a big parking lot and he adjusted the seat, etc. and showed me carefully how to get on and off (I'm used to a step-through) and how to slip my feet into the cage on the pedal (told me I need road shoes instead of my mt. bike shoes and that if I got this bike I'd need to go clipless, yikes!) and I realize that stuff is debatable, but I'm not worried about details like that right now so that's fine, whatever.

Bottom line -- I could get used to everything about that bike but man, it bothered my shoulders. I tend to carry tension in my shoulders, anyway, and sometimes end up with headaches. If I'd ridden that bike very long I probably would have had a whopper of a headache. I told him that, and he said from watching me that I wasn't stretched to far or bunched too tight, that he thought it was the fact that it was my first time on a road bike and I was tense, and I also needed to not "slump" but work on my posture.

At this point, I'd done a few laps and figure 8s and stopped for him to give me more advice/adjustments a couple of times (and almost fell off because I forgot my foot was in a cage, naturally, but he was there to stop me from falling over) and said I'd like to come back when I had more time and ride more bikes (then proceeded to spend almost another hour inside the store, still looking/talking to him, wouldn't you know? LOL).

He showed me the Robaix and said it might be a better choice for me because the .... ooops, thing the stem sticks in? ... is longer/taller, whatever which would be more comfortable for me. He showed me the Ruby. He showed me some Treks.

I said, "I guess I need to work on upper body strength," and he said that would help but it was more about core strength.

He taught me how to say "Bianchi" and "Celeste" and a few other things I wasn't sure of (or was wrong on). He gave me the Trek and Specialized catalogs, showed me a few things in them, and after I asked about a Bianchi that was there, he showed me that catalog and told me about their steel bikes. He also said they could order from Gunnar and Surleigh (how do you spell that?) if I really wanted steel (which was nice, considering we hadn't mentioned steel again). Maybe he realized I might be open t o spending enough money to get a good steel bike?

He's only there a couple of days a week but I told him I'd come back when he's there. He said, "Anybody can help you," only not that brusque -- and I said, "Everybody has a different spin on everything, and I know nothing, and I end up confused; I need some consistency!"

He said in that case, if I wanted to come some time when he wasn't ordinarily there, I could call him and he'd come and meet me there.

Very nice guy, maybe retired, maybe not. (The fact that he could be there on different days?) Hmm. Wonder if he works at more than one location and that's the reason? Hmmm.

Anyway, I've test-ridden my first road bike.

Major concern -- is shoulder/neck issue something I will get over when I'm used to the way a road bike feels? Am I too tense? Is it that despite what he "saw," the bike was just wrong? (If that's it, riding other bikes should make that more obvious.) Am I going to need to go with a more upright bike?

I do not know. Only the Shadow knows.

To be continued....

[mimitabby]

You are following exactly in my shoes. (except i was already used to the cages)
the neck and shoulders was my problem too. the weak core as well (now
i do 3x a week lots of crunches)
After the bike was fitted to me, (3 times, i'm just like you really!)
gradually some of these things got better. the bike you tried out,
what was higher the seat or the handlebars?
the guy sounds nice, but you don't have to get road bike shoes, most
of my road bike friends use MTB shoes including me.
a lot of that stuff is going to go away because you are nervous. but
keep trying bikes,
some are going to feel different. that trek was really pretty.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

The road bike position does feel VERY weird at first if you are used to a hybrid. Taht's normal. Your body will get new muscles that will make that position feel more normal over time. First, the basic frame size, and then the REACH is what is going to be a major factor concerning the fit.
Everyone told me I "looked good" fit-wise, on my new bike, when in reality the stem was too long but I wouldnt have known because I was new to road bikes and didn't know how I was SUPPOSED to feel. I felt so high up and awkward!

Whatever bike you get you need to make sure they do a good fitting and still you may need to make more parts adjustments/changes as you get used to it. I took me a couple of months for it to become obvious to me that I reallu needed a shorter stem. Then I put a TOO short stem on and it took another 4 months for me too realize that it was too short. Just put on a third stem, in between size, and the difference is obvious and dramatic- it feels really just right now. My bike which originally felt so weird and awkward and high and scary...now feels smooth and wonderful and natural to me.
If you feel good with that salesman and he is patient, then yeah I'd stick with him (though it won't hurt you to ride a few other bikes in other places too)
The more bikes you test ride, the more you will know what's right for you and what isn't. If you want a road bike, there is no reason to think you "can't" get used to riding one. If it fits right, you will quickly adapt and love it and will wonder why you ever doubted your ability to ride one. :)

[Wahine]

Pooks - I'm looking for a new bike too right now. Maybe we should start a support group. I'm an experienced rider and I still find it all confusing.

[HillSlugger]

When I test rode my first road bike and the salesman asked "how does that feel?" I had to answer "Not sure" since I was completely not used to the new body position. I didn't know if I was too stretched or too bunched up because I didn't know how it was supposed to feel.

You are likely going to be leaning over a lot more, needing to hold up your head at a different angle. This will require training some new muscles. It will take a while to get used to it and for it to really feel comfortable. I needed to trust the salespeople that the fit was basically right and could be dialed-in later.

It sounds like you talked about riding more upright and about head tube length. These pretty much go together: a longer head tube (the thing the stem fits into) generally places the handlebars higher. I say "generally" because there are other factors like stem angle and spacer rings that also affect handlebar height.

I ended up with a Specialized Sequoia. It's got a longer head tube, more upright position, and more "relaxed" geometry. Together, that all means that you don't need to lean over so far and "stand on your head" like you said (my handlebars and seat are at almost identical height).

I love my bike. You can get a "base" Sequoia for $770. The Trek Pilot is supposed to have similar geometry and riding position. I never got around to test riding one because I fell in love with the Sequoia.

BTW I've always ridden in MTB shoes, both in cages and clipless; I really like the idea of a shoe that you can walk in.

[indysteel]

Pooks, it does take some time to get used to the geometry of a road bike. You will notice some neck/shoulder pain your first few rides, but as those muscles strengthen, you'll get used to being in that position. Try to stay lose and keep your shoulders "out of your ears." Keep in mind, too, that men's bikes have wider bars than WSD bikes. Even if you end up getting a men's bike because it otherwise fits, you might consider swapping out the bars to something narrower. The width of your shoulders is a good guide as to how wide you want your bars to be. The beauty of a road bike's drop bars over the flat bars of a hybrid is that you can move your hands around. That helps you remain comfortable for longer.

The Roubaix's headtube is higher, which means that the geometry of the bike isn't as "aggressive" as other race road bikes. Same holds true for Trek's Pilot line. You may find that you like that geometry as it doesn't require as much flexibility and isn't as hard on the low back. Even if you don't buy one of those bikes, however, you can make the geometry of any bike less aggressive by getting a stem with some rise to it. That essentially raises your bars and puts you in a more upright position.

Regarding his comments about steel. He's right that not all steel tubing is created equal. However, I don't think you need to spend an arm and a leg to get a decent steel road bike. Bianchi has some decently priced steel bikes and Gunnar is also pretty reasonable. I'm partial to the Eros Donna an an entry level steel road bike (that's what I have). Give the color a chance!

Regarding core strength. It's an important factor on being strong and comfortable on a bike. Unfortunately, cycling itself will not help you build it. You might consider adding pilates or yoga classes into your exercise routine.

Clipless pedals and shoes. I like using clipless pedals on my road bike, but I agree with Lisa that you don't necessarily need road shoes. You can use SPD pedals if you'd prefer to use MTB shoes (the recessed cleats allow you to walk normally). I further agree that it's a detail you can put aside for the moment.

Since it sounds like you're likely to get--based on your budget--either a steel or an aluminum bike, I will tell you that while AL is often criticized for having a harsh, stiff ride, not all AL is created equal either. The design and tubing used can greatly affect the ride. Remember, too, that you can lessen the feel of stiff bike by upgrading your tires (or if you have some money to burn) the wheels. So, I would definitely keep an open mind about frame material at this point and just test ride as much as you can. You'll likely to find a bike or two that just feels right.

Have fun bike shopping!

[Kano]

Pooks,

Maybe you remember, I've just gone through what you're doing now. You say you rode the Allez, and talked with the dealer about the Roubaix a bit. I rode the Allez too, after test riding the Dolce (women specific) and liked the feel of it better than the feel of the Dolce, where I felt a definite scrunching. It is a new sensation, leaning forward more, and does take some getting used to, and like Mimi said, making myself do those crunches!

For me, though, living in a mountainous region of the country, I felt that the Triple chainring would be important to me. (and yes, I use every one of those gears!) That's when my bike dude said, well, let's look at this other model and we started talking about the Roubaix. He was about to show me this year's model, when we discovered the one I bought -- a year or two old, with better components than what I would have gotten on this year's model. The ride is similar, but more comfortable than what I experienced on the Allez.

We took the bike home pretty much unmodified, which was what my guy suggested, since I'm changing bike style so drastically. He said give it a couple of hundred miles before we make any changes, since it's so foreign -- I'm capable of doing seat adjustments, and I think I've got that situated pretty well now, at least until we start in on some "more drastic" adjustments. I think some changes are needed in the handlebars, but I'm impressed with how quickly I feel mighty darned comfy on this bike without any real fittings so far!

So, like I say, give that Roubaix a try!!!!!

Karen in Boise

[pooks]

Well, I see I have several things I need to do.

I need to start doing crunches. (Looking at apple-belly and wondering if it will bend.)

I need to do some shoulder/neck exercises.

I might even rent a road bike for a day and just work with it.

Oh, and keep test riding!

And I will be going to different bike stores because I want to try different bikes, no prob there.

I actually found a store in the Dallas/Fort Worth area that has a Bleriot! Be still my heart! It's a little distance away from me, so I think I'll work on core strength and test ride some more/get used to the new position before I go check it out.

You know, I hate to admit it, but there I was in that store full of bikes and I wasn't seeing any bikes that I thought looked wonderful. Modern bikes just don't hold a lot of visual appeal for me. And I wasn't in love with the colors.

One exception was that burnt orange fitness cycle. And another was a gorgeous green Electra Townie. But those aren't bikes I want.

I'll be going to a store that carries Konas, just because they seem to have some cool colors.

[mimitabby]

Don't feel too shallow about your color preferences. See the thread started by Meg entitled "Dear Bike company"

[pooks]

How's this for shallow?

I find the color Celeste very pretty now that I know it's pronounced, "cheh-lest-eh."

Go figger.

[pooks]

Oh, also -- I was on a 52 Allez. For some reason that sounds small to me, but I guess not. My legs seemed to fit.

[mimitabby]

ps your ability to do crunches does not depend on the outward shape of your abdomen. the muscles of your core are deep deep inside.
start with crunches, how many can you do? do a few more the next day!
if you are not in front of an entire gymnasium, you can do what you like.
I found i could slowly build a few more a day..

I can do more than DH!!

[SouthernBelle]

How tall are you, Pooks? In general, 52cm is prob about right for 5'5-7" without taking specifics into consideration.

[pooks]

I'm between 5'7" and 5'8" somewhere.

You know, this kind of boggles my mind. I think of "crunches" as something I would do to lose weight, improve my body. I used to think of cycling as something I would do to lose weight, improve my health.

Now I'm blithely planning to do crunches so that I can bike so that I can then lose weight, improve my health.

This is getting complicated.

But actually I'm just going to do crunches so that my cycling will improve because it's fun.

[mimitabby]

Yes, Pooks, me too. Doing crunches so that I can ride my bike better,
riding my bike gives me more stamina to do the other stuff in the gym.
Suddenly, my body is changing and i LIKE it.

[indysteel]

Crunches are okay to strengthen your abs, but in my opinion, they address just a part of overal core strength. My abs have always been strong; it's my back muscles that have been my biggest problem. It wasn't until I started to do yoga--a lot--that I noticed real changes in that department. It also helps me stretch my calf and hamstring muscles which, when tight, also affect my lower back. If I don't stay on top of that, I definitely feel more uncomfortable on the bike. Everything is SO connected. The more I ride, the more I get that.

OMG, I've been mispronouncing "celeste" this whole time. Eeeeck.

[pooks]

Yoga? Hmm. I wonder if I can find a class near me. Thanks.

[Batbike]

the Allez was a good start but every bike is different and it is great that you are going to try different bikes! personally, I think you will find a more comfortable bike than the Allez, once you start looking -- you will be amazed!

as for your shoulders/neck, sounds like nerves because hard to imagine you strained anything doing loops and figure 8's around a parking lot ... tension of new bike and new position can be very scary!

whatever bike you do, please get a FIT!!! per your description, I seem to be the same height as you, but that does not mean you and I would necessarily ride the same bike EXACTLY ... we could have different femurs causing our legs to be higher/shorter, different torso lengths, arm lenghts, and flexibility issues ... so it is real important to get a fit before final purchase!

fyi ... in general, I like a road bike with a toptube length between 52cm-53cm, using a stem or 90 or 100 with a slight 6 degree rise ... this may be a good starting range for you, BUT THEN AGAIN (please see above paragraph)

Good luck!

[pooks]

Believe me, Bat -- I'm getting a fit.

Something else we talked about -- I asked the guy about Cross bikes and he thought I might actually like that option. So instead of narrowing anything down, I'm just broadening my scope!

[pooks]

I forgot to ask --

He said he didn't know what kind of Brooks saddle I had, but that if it was wide (typical hybrid) it wouldn't work on a road bike. I thought a lot of you with road bikes had the Brooks 67, right?

[mimitabby]

mine is a b67. it says it right on it.

And Batbike, i felt strain PARTICULARLY doing figure 8s in a parking lot.
and here's this lady saying "oh, you really look comfortable" and I'm thinking "oh, this is not comfortable"

[xeney]

I ride a B67 on my mixte but it would be far too wide for me on a road bike. Butts differ but I would not assume that it will work for you ... most people ride narrower saddles on road bikes.

[pooks]

Thanks Mimi and Xeney -- both voices of experience.

Time will tell, I suppose!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I forgot to ask --

He said he didn't know what kind of Brooks saddle I had, but that if it was wide (typical hybrid) it wouldn't work on a road bike. I thought a lot of you with road bikes had the Brooks 67, right?

The Brooks 67 should work just fine on a road bike. He's probably referring to those gigantioc padded black marshmallow saddles you sometimes see on "comfort bikes". The brooks is not wider all over- just a bit in the back to accomodate women's typically slightly wider sit bones. It doesn't effect where the saddle connects or the saddle nose width or anything.

[KnottedYet]

I forgot to ask --

He said he didn't know what kind of Brooks saddle I had, but that if it was wide (typical hybrid) it wouldn't work on a road bike. I thought a lot of you with road bikes had the Brooks 67, right?

I have a road bike, and a Brooks B67.

It doesn't matter so much what kind a bike you have as how wide your sit bones are and what suits your hip joint angle. If you love your B67, put it on your new bike and ride! Only change saddles if the B67 causes you trouble on your new bike.

(my B67 is VERY comfortable on my Waterford roadie!)

And try cyclocross geometry bikes: Jamis Aurora, Kona Jake, etc.

[pooks]

While my Brooks is much more comfortable than the padded saddle that came on the bike, I have no idea how comfortable it will be on a roadie. The way I know my bike doesn't fit is because I have to practically hang my sitbones off the back of the saddle to get my legs comfortable. So I'm sitting on the saddle wrong, to begin with. But again, we'll see!

And the Aurora has cyclotross geometry? It's a touring bike, right?

[KnottedYet]

touring and cyclocross geometry are very similar. TiCycles recommends the same bike for both functions. Don't get too worried about labels, just try bikes! Lots of bikes! (and be sure to write down your impressions somewhere so you can keep track of what you rode and what you thought.)

(and as for handlebar height and seat height, I like having them almost the same height, or the bars slightly higher, whether it's my commuter/hybrid or my roadie)

did you see the link I posted for Surly? They make some peachy-keen steel bikes. (like the Surly Long Haul Trucker)

http://www.surlybikes.com/lht_comp.html

http://www.surlybikes.com/crosscheck_comp.html

I can't wait to hear how you feel about the Bleriot!

[DarcyInOregon]

Pooks, one thing I can add to the discussion is when you find the bike that fits you the best, and you like everything about it, but if you hate the color - then ask the bike shop what other colors that bike is produced in and order the color you want. Or you can look at the model at the next level, and if the price is still in your budget, the other model might have a color that will make you happy and you can order that bike. The bike shop can order any bike produced by any manufacturer for which they are the distributor, so think of the bikes in the shop as the display models.

Darcy

[pooks]

Thanks, miss girly-girl pink Darcy. (wink)

Display models. That's smart.

Another thing that came up -- I thought some bikes were all alluminum but the guy said that they all have carbon forks these days. Huh? Maybe all the bikes that shop carries have carbon forks?

[KnottedYet]

My aluminum bike has a steel fork.

My steel bike has a steel fork.

There are plenty of debates here about the overall safety and reliability of carbon forks. One thing for sure, though, is that aluminum just isn't a good material for a fork. If you buy an aluminum bike it will have a fork made of something else. And the nice thing is that if you love everything about the bike, but don't like the fork material, you can buy a different fork!

[pooks]

There's this scene in Moonstruck, at the end, where the whole family is around the table and engagements are being broken and made and words are flying and in the middle of it all --

Is the old man.

And he looks so pitiful.

And he says.

"I'm so confused."

I am that old man.

(But that's okay -- I think I like it better when I don't know all this stuff. I just need to RIDE some of these bikes.)

[SadieKate]

touring and cyclocross geometry are very similar.
Not necessarily. A cross bike can handle like a road bike with a high bottom bracket which makes cornering feel different. Touring bikes frequently have longer chain stays and less steep angles which can slow down the steering and make them more stable at low speeds and with weight on the frame. Touring bikes are designed to carry loads and cyclocross are usually not. My cross bike hates towing a trailer, but touring bikes will generally be fine. True cross bikes have only one bottle braze-on (doesn't change the handling but the buyer should know). Some companies may try to design a more stable cross bike so it can be used as a touring bike, but this is not always the case. Riv's Legolas is a case in point. They caution against carrying loads.

I agree though that Pooks needs to go ride a ton of bikes first and worry about labels later, but she needs to clearly identify how she wants to use this bike.

[KnottedYet]

Ooops, my bad. I was going by what a couple shops told me about some specific bikes. Guess it really depends on the bike model. sorry to lead you astray...:o

Anyway, yes, Pooks, go ride lots of bikes! Don't worry about the labels, just worry about how they feel and how you feel riding!

Feel the bike love!:D

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

And be sure to check out the Bleriot! It's is Riv's least expensive bike, but still wonderfully made in every way. It's got the "classic" look I keep hearing you talk about wanting...

[KnottedYet]

I saw Bleriots at Robinson Wheelworks and at Rivendell when I was in California last month. They really are lovely. Pooks, be sure to ride one and tell us how you like it!

[pooks]

It's funny. There's one in a local bikeshop and their website says, "Borrow our Bleriot for the day." I wonder what size it is? I do intend to check it out after I've gotten more adjusted to the feel of a roadie.

I forgot something, though. I was talking to my husband again the other night, and he is still a bit confused about why I'm not just getting the next size in my chainless bike. And I started talking about fit again, and he said, "So why didn't we do that last time?"

Um ... because we got chainless? Off the internet?

"Well, why didn't we buy them locally?"

Um ... because I called everywhere, and nobody sold them? (Sidenote: now I know there is a place that can order them, but when I called them whoever answered evidently didn't know that.)

"Well, why did you want chainless?"

You could have heard a pin drop. (Excuse the cliche, but really.)

"YOU wanted chainless."

"Me? What did I know about it?"

(I might point out to you, at this point, I wasn't sure whether to laugh or hit him. I refrained from saying, "Obviously NOTHING." Ahem.)

Finally, I said, "But I might want to keep this one, because it's well suited to errands that are close by."

At which point my husband, who hardly ever finds time to ride with me, says with honest dismay in his voice:

"That's crazy. We don't have room for the two bikes we've got. What are we going to do with FOUR?"

You can't imagine how hard it was for me to keep a straight face. Four? If I get a road bike, he's getting one, too?

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I just said, "Don't worry. I'll figure something out."

I guess I'm not the only one who is going to be test riding roadies!

[7rider]

Just a thought....if your DH doesn't ride, is his bike bigger than yours and will it fit you better than your current ride? That's 1 option and certainly a no-cost option.
Don't be afraid of carbon forks. They absorb road buzz wonderfully, and in all my years of riding a bike and knowing folks who ride bikes, I have heard of exactly ONE fork failure - and it was a steel fork. And it had about 100,000 miles on it - literally...this guy was a 12,000 mile a year rider. I don't know if I'd get a carbon fork (or carbon bike, for that matter) for cross-country racing or jumping, but for day-to-day riding, they are great.
As someone mentioned...take notes. All these bikes will start running together after a while. And see if you can ride several bikes back-to-back, so you can better compare one against the other.
Good luck and .. oh, have fun!

[mimitabby]

about FORKS

You're right, most bikes do have carbon forks now. My bianchi has one too. It works just fine. I wouldn't worry about that, it doesn't mean the bike is worth any more or less.. It's pretty standard now.

The parts made of carbon that worry me are cranks and other parts that
have high shear in their normal usage.

[KnottedYet]

Just for the adventure, take a peek at the Rivendell "Protovelos." Kind of a grab bag bike shopping adventure!

(I'm not at all seriously suggesting you get one, just saying here's something interesting)

http://www.rivbike.com/bikes/protovelo

[pooks]

First of all, I don't think I can ride my husband's bike because there's not enough clearance (or maybe ANY clearance) when I attempt to stand over it. (I haven't actually hoisted a leg over -- I've just stood beside it.)

All those protovelos are way too large for me, alas and alack! (I'd like to see pics, though.)

And today (drumroll, please) I saw my first Rivendells.

TWO (count them) TWO Bleriots.

I went to the shop that sells them and they have one Bleriot in stock for people to see/ride, and take orders from that. One was being delivered today, and the proud new owner was sitting on an old sofa drinking a Dos Equis while they prepped his bike in front of him. He was in such a good humor, he kept offering to let me test ride his bike, and I kept telling him, A) I am not comfortable on road bikes yet so don't want to try it yet, and B) the Specialized I was on was a 52 (the guy at the bike shop said he'd probably try me on something larger, but it was hard to say w/o measuring and I just wasn't ready for that yet) and both the store's Bleriot and the one the guy had bought were 57s, so that's really the primary thing that held me back. Combining "not used to" with "too large" and I just didn't want to try it. (Plus, if I'd been going to test ride one, I would have gone for the store's, not his brand new one, gack!)

But it was a fun trip, and these guys are nice. Their shop is a rental storage unit (or at least that is what they look like); they handle nothing but steel, don't have much stock on hand (or so it seems), and do a lot of custom work. There was another couple there to pick up a bike, and there was a very relaxed friendly vibe.

Well, of course there was. It was in a garage. <g>

Anyway, the Bleriot is gorgeous and I probably will go back this week or next and give it a try when there's nobody around!

(But -- a 57?)

And Dos Equis guy? He said it was like riding on a puffy cloud. (Did I mention he was in a very good mood, and not because of the Dos Equis.)

[KnottedYet]

Rivendell itself is in two "garages" in Walnut Creek, CA.:D

So, getting a Riv in a garage while sippin' a Dos Equis (or Lemon Drop) sounds very appropriate to me!:p

Riv's website has instructions somewhere for figuring out the sizing for their bikes. It is a little different, but I can't remember how. LisaSH would know!

[DarcyInOregon]

Pooks, we are the same height and I ride a 57 cm. Did you say you are 5'8"?

Also, another TE member who is around the same height, I know that her WSD bike is 57 also.

My bike fits me perfectly.

Darcy

[SadieKate]

The numbers a bike company assigns a frame are only numbers. Brand to brand to brand, all size Xs are not created equal. I've ridden everything from a 48 to a 52. Get a fit.

[Batbike]

And Batbike, i felt strain PARTICULARLY doing figure 8s in a parking lot.
and here's this lady saying "oh, you really look comfortable" and I'm thinking "oh, this is not comfortable"

just want to clarify that anything new is stressful and can cause strain, tension, etc ... because of this, the body reacts and it can be painful. i did not say that Pooks did not experience the pain, or that the pain was not genunie and related to the bike ride in parking lot ... just felt (in my opinion only) that her pain may be more stress related than bike fit related. if I am wrong, I apologize.

to me, the best way to alleviate stress, thus pain, is try try try try different bikes for different feels, get either a professional (the best) or a personal fit (self-determination of what you like/feel and taking personal measurements), to narrow down what type of bike and size you are looking for. once all that is determined, than saddles, pedals, etc. can be fitted to the "chosen one" and bike and rider are forever together -- cycling bliss!:cool:

[mimitabby]

Pooks, I would not have tried that man's new bike either. When you have some time under your belt on road bikes, maybe then you'd feel comfortable riding a bike that is 5 cm too big. BUt someone's brand new bike? How many beers did he have?

[mimitabby]

Just for the adventure, take a peek at the Rivendell "Protovelos." Kind of a grab bag bike shopping adventure!

(I'm not at all seriously suggesting you get one, just saying here's something interesting)

http://www.rivbike.com/bikes/protovelo

ha he was talking to me where he said "A Protovelo is not the frame for you if you're a chronic worrier, if you need reassurance that 'it'll be OK..' "

[pooks]

The guy was a fairly new rider, I think -- he'd been on a hybrid and this was his first roadie. I think he was naive, pleased as punch with his new bike, and wanting to share the joy. He was a very nice young guy.

I'm not sure the 57 is all that much too big, especially with the seat lowered a bit. But I just wasn't ready to try it yesterday.

I do think I need to test as many bikes as I can -- even just parking lot tests -- until I begin to get a feel for what I'm doing, and the differences. It's possible that it was "new position nervousness/tension" that was the main part of my problem on that Allez. It's also possible that it's something about my shoulders and upper body strength that I need to work on, at least partially. I really do get tense in my shoulders.

I can think of a number of things I can do, including just taking one of the shop's bikes out for a few miles to see if I loosen up any or adjust or if it gets worse, etc.

If you get a professional fit, is that to a particular bike? Or are those measurements that you then take with you to determine what kinds of bikes to try? Does a professional fit tell you what geometry to look for, etc.?

I am now really wondering about the 52. I thought it sounded small. The guy looked at me and said, "We're about the same, I think, let's try a 52, this is what I ride." Then after adjusting the seat a couple of times, he said it looked like a good fit, and that I wasn't stretched too far or bunched up, and that if that was a bike I was interested in that they'd then start working on the stem, handlebar, etc.

[mimitabby]

Pooks, 52 might be too small, but remember your stand over height (which relates to the 52) is not the only important measurement.
In a factory made bike you might have to get a smaller sized bike to get the top tube length that is best for you. So don't worry so much about 52's 54's and 57's worry about what it feels like. When you go into a bike shop, stay in the range of 52, say, try a 54 next time. If it makes your head and neck feel much worse, that's clearly not the direction you need to be going in.

[pooks]

Got it.

[pooks]

DAY TWO (of test riding)

I went to a local Jamis Dealer.

"How tall are you?"

"Between 5'7" and 5'8"."

"I'd start you off on ... let's try a 51."

Wow, these guys sure do want to put me on a small bike. And this guy (like the one before) said, "I'm 5'7" and I'm on 55, but I ride more stretched out than you're probably going to want to."

He was NOT 5'7" but I don't suppose I have to tell you women that? Probably closer to 5'6" but hey, who's counting? However, he has much shorter legs and longer torso than I have for what that's worth.

Okay, so anyway, he happened to have a 2006 Jamis Quest (http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/bikes/06_bikes/06questw.html) 53 that he eyeballed and decided that actually, I should try it, and he made a couple of adjustments and I rode it and --

Smooth as silk. Wow! And NO tension in my shoulders. Maybe it's a more relaxed position than the Specialized Allez (http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=21888)? Not sure. I just know for the first time I (OUCH!!!) understood the term "painful in the girly bits."

I was hoisting myself up off that skinny seat to relieve the pressure (but also because it felt better on my legs -- same as on my hybrid) but other than that, it felt really nice.

By the way, Xeney will be proud. When he asked how it felt, I told him it was immediately better than the Specialized Allez I rode, and that it felt pretty good except -- I suddenly realized I was about say "girly bits" and said, "except for pressure on the genitalia." He nodded and started adjusting the saddle a bit.

I went back and he got me on the trainer and worked some more with it, and finally got a 54 Jamis Ventura (http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/bikes/07_bikes/venturasport.html) (entry level aluminum) and adjusted it, and said he'd like me to give it a try, just for size. (I think he may have said it was a similar geometry to the Quest, but I'm not sure he said that.)

I did. Still had pressure issues with the seat, and when that's going one? Sometimes hard to discern other problems, if ya know what I mean and I think you do. But it was a better fit for my legs, I'm pretty sure. Felt a tad less comfortable through the shoulders, and I took it back to him and told him that I might need the WSD for the handlebar width and he said he could put a narrow handlebar on the 54 and it would do the same thing, but he thinks I don't need the WSD, that my torso and legs seem to be more 50/50 and the WSD is for women who have shorter torsos in comparison to their legs.

I also told him that the steel bike was MUCH smoother riding and he seemed like that might have surprised him a bit, and he said he was glad I noticed it, because it was true. (I'm glad I noticed, too. It's one of those things that I didn't know if it only came into play when you've ridden a few miles or not, but with this, it was IMMEDIATE.)

The other thing, he said that the kinds of adjustments we'd be making for my leg extension was about saddle adjustment, not bike frame? At least, I think that's what I understood.

I rode both bikes again, realized I was beginning to confuse myself and the saddle was not getting any more comfortable, and then told him I had a lot more test riding to do, but I was sure I'd be back.

And that was my adventure in test riding for today.

[mimitabby]

hey, that's great! what about going back to that shop with your Brooks saddle?

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Pooks, for what it's worth:
here is the rivendell sizing method:
http://www.rivbike.com/how_to_pick_your_bike/choosing_a_frame_size
I am 5'5" with a PBH of 80cm, and I take a 53-54cm Rivendell.
NOT the same system for other bikes!

All brands are slightly different, and no one can say Oh you are 5'8" so you need a size ___ frame. It is not the same from brand to brand. It's only a START to begin with standover clearance- you will need to address reach/toptube length as well, for one thing.
Glad you liked the Jamis steel bike!
You are doing great and learning more every day- that's wonderful! The more you know when you do actually buy your bike, the better choice you will make.

[pooks]

I thought about that. I told him I was on a Brooks now, and he said, "Oh, if you've gotten used to a Brooks you're going to want to stay on a Brooks," whatever that means.

[pooks]

Thanks, Lisa. The first time I went through this process, I wanted a bike NOW. I am pretty sure that even if my husband hadn't ordered the bikes, I would have ended up with the wrong bike, just because I didn't understand how important getting the RIGHT bike was, and was very impatient.

This time, I'm enjoying the process and of course have a bike at home to ride in the meantime!

[mimitabby]

IT means you have been SPOILED. You know what COMFORTABLE means. and they can't BS you into trying one of their ultralight rockslab saddles.

:D :D :D :D

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

IT means you have been SPOILED. You know what COMFORTABLE means. and they can't BS you into trying one of their ultralight rockslab saddles.

:D :D :D :D

Or their marshmallow gel torture instruments....

[SadieKate]

IT means you have been SPOILED. You know what COMFORTABLE means. and they can't BS you into trying one of their ultralight rockslab saddles.

:D :D :D :DIt simply means she has found the saddle that works for her. Sheesh. I ride an ultralight and very firm saddle and it suits me to a T, thank yew very much. No pain involved.

[pooks]

And what the heck, I test rode another bike this afternoon.

A Lemond Etape. (http://www.lemondbikes.com/bikes/road_racing/performance_aluminum/etape.php) This is at the LBS with the 20+/Brooks-appreciating guy, who sized me up and said, "I'm going to start off with at least a 55, what have the others been putting you on?"

Okay, so the Etape was a 55. I got on it, and the seat was comfortable. (!!!!!) I didn't ride far. Just did a spin around the parking lot. Aluminum -- not as nice as the steel Jamis Quest I rode this morning, but the bike felt pretty good. Unfortunately I didn't get to ride it much more because when I came back to where he was waiting and I went to get off the bike --

I forgot my foot was in a cage.

One scraped and dripping knee later ....

We looked at the Tourmalet in the shop and talked about it, and I told him I'd come back later (maybe tomorrow) to ride it. They have no WSDs in that shop, however. They do have Felts, so I am sure I'll try a Felt or two, too. If not tomorrow, soon. This is the one LBS that is near enough for me to ride my bike to.

He said, again, that he'd recommend me not going any lower than a 55. (Oh, and when I told him I'd ridden the Jamis he knew where I'd been and says he has all the respect in the world for the guys there. He did not say that about the place that put me on the 52, however.)

So, that's the latest.

[maillotpois]

It simply means she has found the saddle that works for her. Sheesh. I ride an ultralight and very firm saddle and it suits me to a T, thank yew very much. No pain involved.

Ditto. Everyone's different. My saddle's a firm, light men's racing saddle (with all important cut out) and I've ridden it up to 250 miles at once comfortably. (While I did ride it on my 375 mile ride last year, it wasn't exactly comfortable because of operator error and because that was stupid far. :rolleyes: )

[KnottedYet]

YAY POOKS!!!!

I'm so glad you're riding lots of bikes! And glad you like steel, and can feel the difference in the frame materials already! Look at you, being the bike connessuer. (o0k, I can't spell fer diddly today)

When you start narrowing down your choices to your top 3 or 4, I'd definitely take your Brooks with you. You don't want an unfamiliar saddle to distract you from the bikes.

Can I also recommend that you ride the test bikes without using cages or clipless? Again, it's just a distraction if they aren't something you're already used to.

[KSH]

Hey Pooks... just wanted to say good luck on the bike hunt. It looks like you are hunting far and wide for the perfect bike.

[7rider]

Wow, Pooks - you are keeping busy with the rides. Great!
Sounds to me like the Quest is so far the front-runner, followed by the Etape.
The Quest has a nice frame and is nicely spec'ed, too. Hopefully, as a '06, he could cut a nice deal. Saddles are an incredibly personal thing. I know of folks who have gone through a bunch of them before settling on the one that's right for them. Don't let the comfort - or discomfort - of a saddle sway you towards or away from any bike. (Me - I'm a big fan of Terry saddles - all 3 of my bikes have them.)
Good luck with the Felts. They are aluminum and carbon frames. I love my Felt. I am not a big fan of aluminum bikes - they can be quite harsh to me. But my Felt (an '05) does not have that harshness. Lively yet comfortable.
Looking forward to your next update!

[Fredwina]

let me chip in here:
As far as aluminum goes, It can be harsh or Lively - I have a Cannondale CAAD7 which I love- but It replaced a GT Force which was a bump-a-rama. They're both aluminum frames, it's just what Cannondale and GT did with the material.Those of us who have been at this a while can recall Vitus - a defunct maker of AL frames that were notoriously "whippy"
P.S. The GT replaced a Steel Schwinn Voyageur. And my Bike Friday is steel.

[mimitabby]

oh, Pooks, please insist they take the cages off the pedals. I assure you they have lots of pedals in the back that they can replace them with. (you only have so much skin on those knees!!)

for me the element of fear was enough that i never fell because of cages..

[roguedog]

Thanks for the reports, Pooks. I get to vicariously shop with you and experience the discovery with you. It's fun.

[SadieKate]

Those of us who have been at this a while can recall Vitus - a defunct maker of AL frames that were notoriously "whippy"
P.S. I had one of the original over-sized Cannondale frames back in 1984. It was horrible! Completely, unlike the Cannondales of today. It was so harsh I wanted to throw the thing in a ditch about mile 40 and walk home in my cleats. However, I put a softer Vitus fork on it and it made such a difference. I could at least get to mile 60.:p Anyway, just an example of the myriad incarnations of aluminium.

[pooks]

Wow, Pooks - you are keeping busy with the rides. Great!
Sounds to me like the Quest is so far the front-runner, followed by the Etape.
The Quest has a nice frame and is nicely spec'ed, too. Hopefully, as a '06, he could cut a nice deal. Saddles are an incredibly personal thing. I know of folks who have gone through a bunch of them before settling on the one that's right for them. Don't let the comfort - or discomfort - of a saddle sway you towards or away from any bike. (Me - I'm a big fan of Terry saddles - all 3 of my bikes have them.)
Good luck with the Felts. They are aluminum and carbon frames. I love my Felt. I am not a big fan of aluminum bikes - they can be quite harsh to me. But my Felt (an '05) does not have that harshness. Lively yet comfortable.
Looking forward to your next update!

The Quest (according to the guy) is too small for me, thus I'm missing out on a good deal, darn it. Not only was it an 06, but it has a little ding on it that would also make them take less. But it helped me feel the steel, which was very nice!

And yes, I loved the look of the Etape (another 06) but boy it was rough compared to the steel.

I will be looking for a long time. I'm not in a hurry, and I've had an unexpected expense dumped on me. I can't complain -- my mother needs someone to go to Hawaii with her! -- but this is not something I'd planned on doing, so it's going to eat up any discretionary funds I had available for awhile.

But that just gives me more time to learn, ride, and hopefully get stronger.

[Kathi]

If the saddle bothers you it possible that the saddle isn't flat and the nose is angled too high. Have the nose lowered about 1 cm and see if it feels better.