Protecting the Face/Skin

[popopanther]

Hi,
I'm new to these forums. Happy to be here!
I'm wondering if any of you have any luck with protecting your face from the sun... with something stronger than sun block... I use a gator in the winter - or sometimes I just ride at night. My face is CRAZY sensitive and I burn VERY easily. Any facial masks or guards that you'd recommend in the summer?
I put on total block every 30 mins but still burn.
Help :)
Thanks, Peg

[pooks]

Good question -- and I'm looking forward to the answers. I have the same prob and in Dallas, it's a real issue.

[michelem]

Hi Peg,

Welcome. I'm new too and also have sensitive skin. I've not had good luck with chemical sunscreens, but do very well with zinc oxide. You may want to try Blue Lizard Australian Sunscreen - Sensitive:

CHEMICAL-FREE, FRAGRANCE-FREE
10 percent Zinc Oxide, 5 percent Titanium Dioxide
Smart Bottle™ turns blue in UV light
Available in: 1.25oz., 3oz., 5oz., 1 gallon

http://www.crownlaboratories.com/bluelizard/DealerLocator/index.php


As far as a face shield goes, you might want to try Solumbra:
http://www.solumbra.com/product.asp?itemno=4810K07+REG+IND&CAT=ay&SUBCAT=0av

http://www.solumbra.com/product.asp?itemno=3810K07+OS+WHT&CAT=ac&SUBCAT=0ac

http://www.solumbra.com/product.asp?itemno=3280K07+SMED+WHT&CAT=ac&SUBCAT=0ac

I don't suggest their bike jersey though. If you want one of those, I HIGHLY recommend Boure.
http://www.boure.com/8604W.html

Good luck to you! :)

[pooks]

Blue Lizard is what I bought from my dermatologist, before it was available at local stores. Great stuff.

[liberty]

One of the ladies here told me to try Dermatone. It is a transparent zinc oxide. I have some facial sun spots that get darker over the summer. They are cleverly located where a mustache would be and along my nose. Very lovely. :eek: But I've noticed with the Dermatone that my face is handling the sun a lot better. For riding, I use the lotion on my arms and the paste on my face. And then for non-riding times, I use the lotion under my makeup. It has taken a load off my mind to use this! I bought them both at REI. The paste comes in a little tin; perfect for putting in a jersey pocket! Be aware the paste is greasy. But for me, I don't care. My face would be shiny anyway since I sweat so much.

And since I have no idea how to insert a link to the thread where I was told about Dermatone, look in the Gears and Accessories section, thread topic is "Helmet Visors".

[KnottedYet]

Dermatone paste is my friend! (so is my helmet visor, and my big brimmed hat for off the bike.)

[sarahlou]

[QUOTE=liberty;189801]One of the ladies here told me to try Dermatone. It is a transparent zinc oxide. I have some facial sun spots that get darker over the summer. They are cleverly located where a mustache would be and along my nose. Very lovely.

Liberty, I have the very same problem. It has only started happening in the last year. Have you found anything that lightens the skin? Or is the only thing to do to not get any sun on your face?

[michelem]

Yes. Dermatone is very similar to the regular/non-sensitive skin Blue Lizard stuff. In addition to the zinc oxide, it also contains chemical sunscreens. Good stuff if you are not sensitive to the chemical sunscreens. Zinc oxide doesn't break down when exposed to sunlight like the chemical sunscreens.

http://www.rei.com/product/751276

[KnottedYet]

My tin of Dermatone paste lists only titanium dioxide and zinc oxide as active ingredients. No chemical screens, just physical blocks.

Lots of varieties of Dermatone. http://www.dermatone.com/welcome.htm

This is my paste, I really like it. http://www.dermatone.com/asp/DermMain.asp?Option=Info&Item=2205

[michelem]

Oh! Very good! They don't carry that particular paste at REI. The one they carry has the chemical sunblock in it. I'll have to see if they can get it if I ask nice. I doubt it though. They never carry my size and always say I have to order through the manufacturer to get it . . . it irritates me that they carry plus sizes, but they do not carry petite (short) or small sizes - how hard is it to carry a size 5 shoe?! uh oh . . . thread drift . . .

[KnottedYet]

Neutrogena makes a lotion that is only zinc and ti. I have several bottles of it. It's ok, but it doesn't "disappear" like the Dermatone paste. I end up quite ghostly-pale!

Someone posted last summer that the newest version of the Neutrogena DOES disappear, so I might have to get a bottle this year.

I think I got my paste at an independent camping store. Or maybe it was a drug store. Looks like it can be ordered directly from the Dermatone website, too.

[RolliePollie]

I'm pretty happy with a new Neutrogena product called Ultra Sheer Dry-Touch Sunblock...but it's the chemical kind of sunblock, not zinc oxide. It's SPF 55 and blocks UVA & UVB rays. I think it comes in SPF 70 too. It's not greasy at all, which I like a lot, and it says "gentle enough for even sensitive skin" on the tube.

I have brown blotches on my face, which is called Melasma or Chloasma (aka "the mask of pregnancy" except I'm not pregnant...it's from the Pill). Anyway, these brown marks typically get really dark from sun exposure even when I'm wearing lots of sunscreen. But so far, this Neutrogena stuff is doing a pretty good job at keeping the brown spots under control...better than anything else I've tried. But I want to try Dermatone too...it sounds even better!

[KnottedYet]

The Dermatone paste I use is only spf 15, but it is a physical block which has some definite advantages.

It's my "uh-oh" or extra back-up block. Usually I wear Hawaiian Tropic or Banana Boat kids' sunscreens (low irritant levels, mix of physical and chemical blocks). I can put paste over my usual sunscreen for a little extra physical boost, or just wear the paste alone if I forget the sunscreen. If you smear the paste on REALLY thick, it is more than spf 15. Works ok on lips, too.

The paste is very handy, nice sized little tin, and no worry about spilling.

[Thorn]

Zinc and Titanium Oxide.....if you can find them or order online.

While everyone reacts differently and my experience is not indicative of anyone else's, I also was using the Nuetragena Ultra Sheer Dry-Touch--the chemical sunscreen. Never, ever again. I ended up with a bad sunburn.

In trying to figure out why something that I'd really liked let me down, I came up with a few answers....first, that sunscreen dries very quickly. If you rub it too much, it actually peels back off. So it is very easy to accidentally unapply your sunscreen. On that fact, I tended to be very careful

More likely, I tend not to re-apply and I was out for 5 hours (Note: I rarely reapply--how can you do that when you're so sweaty?). I've since discovered that the chemical make up of that sunscreen is one that you *must* reapply every 2 hours. If you don't, the chemical will react with the top layer of skin setting up an environment where you be more senstive to a burn than if you hadn't applied (actually, I believe that it is not technically sunburn, but it is skin damage and acts like a burn).

Not all chemical sunscreens fall into the *must* reapply or risk greater risk. I wish I'd kept the article link. The gist of the story is--physical sunblocks like Zn and Ti are the best for sensitive skins. If they don't blend completely and you look like a ghost? Well, at least you know they're there :rolleyes:

[liberty]

[QUOTE=liberty;189801]One of the ladies here told me to try Dermatone. It is a transparent zinc oxide. I have some facial sun spots that get darker over the summer. They are cleverly located where a mustache would be and along my nose. Very lovely.

Liberty, I have the very same problem. It has only started happening in the last year. Have you found anything that lightens the skin? Or is the only thing to do to not get any sun on your face?

Saralou - well, I've tried several skin lightening products. But I am wary of most of them because you have to be careful for several days to not be in the sun while you use them, otherwise it can increase sun damage. Figure that one out! My current facial routine is to use Mary Kay Time Wise cleansers, and then use the MK Even Complexion Essence. I also bought the microdermabrasion stuff, but I have to be careful about it because my skin is so sensitive to abrasive products. I have been very pleased with the MK. Over the winter I've noticed a drastic improvement in the pigmentation of my skin; this is the first summer I will have a sunscreen that works, so I am hoping to maintain the improvements.

I would recommend you get a good sunscreen and blocker, and forget about a tan this year. Don't see why you need to stay out of the sun. Stick to the shade when you don't need to be in the sun. Just be diligent about keeping the zinc oxide on your skin. I make sure to bike during the least sun damaging times of the day too.

I will be able to put Dermatone to a huge test in a few weeks, because i'm going to South America for 10 days. The wonderful land that gave me sun spots in the first place... KnottedYet, thank you so much for recommending Dermatone! Peace of mind in a bottle. I will let you gals know if it stands up to the sub-tropical sun.

[liberty]

Oops, I was going to reply on the Neutragena dry-touch too. It is what I was attempting to use in South America. But I sweat like a horse... I also used it when I began biking, but it did nothing. Sun spots got very dark. I did like how it felt though. Went on nicely under makeup. But Dermatone lotion goes on nicely too. It does leave a very slight, almost invisible white cast to your face. This year who cares if I have a tan! I am going to embrace my pale skin!

Do you realize how much stuff we're "supposed" to be putting on our skin in order to meet the idea of beautiful? Self-tanners, cellulite creams, moisturizers, sunscreen... Good grief! Why can't we just be who we are? There are MORE of us with "supposedly" imperfect bodies than there are with perfect bodies. THEY are the oddballs, not us! Biking does more for my legs than any cellulite cream ever did... Sorry for the thread drift...

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Do you realize how much stuff we're "supposed" to be putting on our skin in order to meet the idea of beautiful? Self-tanners, cellulite creams, moisturizers, sunscreen... Good grief! Why can't we just be who we are? There are MORE of us with "supposedly" imperfect bodies than there are with perfect bodies. THEY are the oddballs, not us! Biking does more for my legs than any cellulite cream ever did... Sorry for the thread drift...

Who's idea of beautiful?- a cosmetic company's?- well of COURSE they want us to slather on as many goops as they can get us to buy! Their idea of beauty is dollar signs. :rolleyes: I would never even consider stuff like self tanning lotion (why dye your skin?) or cellulite creams (can't cream away fat).
Sunscreen when in the sun and mositurizer when not in the sun are both good things, though. Moisturizer can mean anything, as simple even as a bit of olive oil.
Last year, after years of using various SPF30 suncreens with no problem, I suddenly broke out in about 100 giant hives after applying my "usual" sunscreen one day! The hives took 6 days to go away- it was AWFUL, like having a disease! So apparently I suddenly developed an allergic reaction the chemical suscreens. Since then I have switched to natural sunBLOCKS instead- those being with titanium dioxide and/or zinc oxide as the ONLY active ingredients. Have not had a problem since.

[KnottedYet]

The chemical sunscreen issue is why I tend to wear long sleeves and long pants and big hats as much as possible. I'm the malignant melanoma poster child, and am supposed to wear sunscreen all the time and every day.

Well, I'm rebellious. I do worry about getting oversensitive to something, so I save the chemical screens for sweaty/wet activities where I need something that won't wash off or can't wear protective clothing. Even then, I put the Dermatone paste OVER the sunscreen on top of my cancer scars. (more is better, right?!?! :D )

I got some nifty face powder that is spf 18 (ti dioxide) but keep forgetting to use it. I'm not much of a makeup chickie. It's not greasy like the old Neutrogena ti + zinc block lotion so I won't get zits from it, but I just haven't gotten into the habit yet. This is the "new" version of the ti + zinc Neutrogena block I've been hearing about: http://www.drugstore.com/qxp55697_333181_sespider/neutrogena/sunblock_lotion_sensitive_skin_spf_30.htm Gonna go to the drugstore today and get some. I'll post a review.

This is where I get my hats: http://www.watership.com/ I love their hats. They have lots of styles to choose from, and they are a local company willing to do repairs if your hat needs them.

[pooks]

My rosacea has gone on a spree and my cheeks and nose are bright red all the time, even when I haven't been outside. So I really do want to use makeup just to look normal. Sigh.

Which means sunscreen/moisturizer, concealer, then foundation. Then if the concealer and foundation really-really worked (which they often don't) I have to brush a bit of blush on. Grrr.

This spring and summer are going to be a real challenge as I spend more time on my bike.

[Thorn]

I suddenly broke out in about 100 giant hives after applying my "usual" sunscreen one day! The hives took 6 days to go away- it was AWFUL, like having a disease! So apparently I suddenly developed an allergic reaction the chemical suscreens.

Oh yeah....try to find more than one brand of sunscreen that works for you and rotate your sunscreen usage if you use it every day. Even if it is Zn/Ti-based. Using the same sunscreen every day increases the changes that you will develop an allergic reaction. What you experienced isn't all that unusual. Rotate, in general, even the Zn/Ti-based because the transport media is not inert.

[KnottedYet]

Ooooh, fun at the drugstore!

I just bought two different Ti-Zn physical blocks. Gonna review them somewhere. (Gear and accessories?)

[violette]

Does anyone use the sunblocks for kids, spf 50? I thought they would work.

[KnottedYet]

I do. I like the ones with a mix of physical and chemical blocks, and those are most often the ones for kids. Banana Boat and Hawaiian Tropic are my favorites.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Knotted, I have that Neutrogena titaniumoxide-only sunblock lotion too. It's the one I switched to after the hives episode. It seems fine.
But i just got a tube of Dr. Hauschka's non-chemical sunblock SPF 15 (Tit.dioxide+zinc ox.). Very expensive, but I like the emollient qualities it has, and the smell is pleasing to me. (I had to get rid of some sunblocks I tried because even the "non-scented" ones had aromas I found unpleasant after a while. I have dry face skin and the Dr. H's seems to help that more than the Neutrogena which is "thinner".

I read somewhere that once you get to spf 15, adding higher spf numbers doesn't really multiply the effectiveness mathematically the way you think it does. Sort of like how 1% milk does not have half the fat of 2% milk, like you would expect it to.
Can't remember where I read about it though. Anyone else read that?
I do know that I've never noticed a protection difference between say a 20 and a 35 at all.

[KnottedYet]

The spf is most important relative to each person's burn time.

For example, I burn after about 10 minutes of direct midday sun exposure.

An spf 2 will let me be in the sun twice as long before burning: 20 minutes.

spf 15 gives me 2 1/2 hours

spf 30 gives me 5 hours

spf 50 gives me a bit more than 8 hours, which is probably longer than I'd be in real direct sunlight anyway.

For someone who doesn't burn for 20 minutes, an spf of 50 would just be over kill, and even an spf of 30 might be too much.

My cancer-man pushes spf 30 for everyone all the time. I'll go as low as 15, but no lower. (but I do hats and clothes with it if I'm just wearing spf 15)

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Yes that sounds like what I had read! So in effect, if I put some spf 15 on my face every 2 hours while in the sun and am in the sun for 6 hours, it will give me the same burn protection as if I put on some spf30 ONCE and stayed in the sun for 4 hours. Now i recall that you don't need the higher spf number if you re-apply some every 2 hours or so. I am leery of overly strong stuff on my skin- but yes I don't want skin cancer either! So the 15 should work fine for me if I reapply if staying out more than 2 hours.

[KnottedYet]

Weeeeeellll, sort of.

You are still absorbing radiation. I can put on spf 2, and in 20 minutes I will have absorbed as much radiation as I would have in 10 minutes naked. So I will burn. If I reapply the spf 2 after 20 minutes, I will still be burned. Because I've absorbed that radiation already and in 20 minutes more I will absorb that much again.

10 minutes naked = burned Knot
20 minutes with spf 2 = burned Knot
2 1/2 hours with spf 15 = burned Knot

but:
10 minutes naked = burned Knot
20 minutes naked = painful peeling Knot
2 1/2 hours naked = blistered crying Knot

The spf cuts down on the amount of radiation you absorb, but you are still getting radiation. The rating is based on how much radiation is being cut off, not how long it will totally protect you.

You need to reapply chemical screens because they break down with exposure to radiation (the radiation destroys the screen instead of destroying you). You need to reapply just to maintain the spf you originally had with your fresh application.

Physical blocks don't break down with radiation, so reapplying them if the previous layer hasn't worn off CAN be cumulative. I always assume it's wearing off, so I end up wearing probably a lot more spf than the bottle says.

[liberty]

Wow. I didn't know I should be rotating the sun protection. What a great thread. I am learning tons. So, sun mentor extraordinaire KnottedYet, how many products do you use and how often do you rotate? Very interested in your review of the new products you mentioned.

[KnottedYet]

Here's my review, and MP's review of Neutrogena's Helioplex. http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=14764

I have about 3 different brands of sunscreen at any one time, and just use whatever is handy. So they sort of randomly rotate until they either expire or go empty.

I'm not very organized.:p

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

So they sort of randomly rotate until they either expire or go empty.



Yes that's another point we should all remember...these products DO expire!
I used to be rather clueless and casual about sunscreens and the idea of them expiring never even occured to me- they'd just sit in the shelf and I never looked at their dates. One day I put one on that I'd had in the cupboard for a couple of years and I noticed a NASTY chemical smell from it. I looked at the exp. date and it was expired by 2 years. Now I am much more diligent about getting RID of sun products once they expire. I check the dates in the stores too, because I have often seen expired ones still for sale in stores. I usually point it out to the manager, and hopefully they then pull them.

[Thorn]

Oohh, one more thing on the rotation...don't mix suncreens on your skin, rotate by days. I didn't realize this. I was looking for other information and found an article that said that with some of the chemicals and physical blocks don't interact well, lessening the effectiveness. So reapply according to instructions, but reapply the same stuff until you shower.