Steel Road Bikes

[pooks]

I love the Rivendells because of the lugging and the styling and the colors, etc., etc., etc. I can't afford one, and am not able to go to CA to get fitted even if I could afford it, so I'm not even thinking about buying one as I hunt for a new road bike.

But.

But.

But.

This is such a pretty bike:

http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/bikes/07_bikes/aurora.html

So what do you know about Jamis?

How do they compare to aluminum/carbon combos?

The store that carries these is the farthest from me, and primarily carries bikes way out of my price range so I'm trying to decide whether to even bop over there to check out the Jamis, or whether to stick to the Bianchi, Cannondale, etc.

Opinions, please?

[pooks]

OH, and pretty in pink:

http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/bikes/07_bikes/venturaracew.html

[SadieKate]

Jamis makes some nice bikes. It's worth looking at them. Remember FIT, FIT, FIT!

[SadieKate]

And on the aluminum/carbon vs steel. You need to go ride each to determine which you bike you like. Depending on the tubing, you can get very different rides even in the same material.

Just go ride a bunch of bikes in your price range.

[uforgot]

I had a Jamis Quest I purchased off of ebay. I loved that bike. I really like the look and feel of steel. That bike convinced me that I wanted steel from now on. Unfortunately it was too small! Who knew? At 5'4" you would think 50cm was a fit, but it wasn't, so listen to SadieKate when she says fit fit fit! Jamis also gives you a lot of bang for your buck, but I have noticed that they don't re-sell as well as Bianchi or other well known steel bikes. (I just sold the Jamis frame on ebay, and have been watching how they sell for awhile). Anyway, they are certainly worth taking the drive to look at them, and they have WSD ones now too! I also heard somewhere that they have a woman CEO...

[pooks]

I'm prepared to ride, ride, ride in order to find the fit, fit, fit.

Actually, I was prepared to do that the first time, except that the hubster was so determined to buy chainless. And of course, the chainless wasn't the prob -- the fit was!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I think that Jamis you linked to is one GORGEOUS bike.
Giving up the lugs for welded steel is where you will save big bucks. Notice they have full brazons already installed for mounting fenders AND racks, and come with 700x28mm tires! You can go on gravel dirt roads with those tires, plus load it for touring!

The steel frame tends to be more comfortable to ride than aluminum frames, which tend to be a bit lighter but a stiffer ride. Steel is great for riding many hours or long distances. Carbon and titanium are great and light, but more expensive. Carbon can be much less repairable after a crack up.

I think that is a great value for the money, and a real beauty of a bike. Worth a few long drives to order the right size frame to begin with, and then have it fitted specifically to you at the dealer's. That's where you'll have to insst that they make sure the bike fits you just right even BEFORE they order the frame. Fit from start to finish.
I love that copper/ivory color combo! Ooh BABY!!! :D :D :D

[mimitabby]

Jamis is a great bike. Where's Knot? She can talk a blue streak about them.

And I'm not so sure aluminum is that much lighter; because you have to use more aluminum to make the same strength as steel.

As they say; steel is real.


ps I like the red one WAY better, but I know you like yellow

[Offthegrid]

I think I'm in love with that bike. Can I have an affair?

[HillSlugger]

Both bikes are pretty. The Ventura has better components but it's a double as compared to a triple on the Aurora. Between the triple and the 11/32 cassette the Aurora has a huge gear range.

[pooks]

Oh, I love the look of this one more than the yellow.

I just am not sure about the choice between steel and aluminum/carbon. But if I went on appearance, this Aurora would win, no contest!

[pooks]

This is a step up in price from the Aurora, but I just don't think it's as pretty:

http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/bikes/07_bikes/quest.html

And no, I won't make a choice purely on pretty, but, you know, that Aurora sure is pretty.

So, what makes the Quest more expensive? Anything important?

[mimitabby]

yes, we like that one too :D

do you have a Jamis dealer nearby?

[pooks]

Yep. That's how I found the Jamis. I was looking at the LBSs in the Dallas area and found one I'd never heard of before that carried Jamis, which I also had never heard of before.

They also carry other bikes I've never heard of, like Merlin, Intense, and Titus. They're also the only place I saw that carried Kona, and Kona has some of the prettiest colors.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Both bikes are pretty. The Ventura has better components but it's a double as compared to a triple on the Aurora. Between the triple and the 11/32 cassette the Aurora has a huge gear range.

Right. If you live in a very flat area and plan to do all your riding there, you could do the double. But if you ever plan on long rides with hills, or any touring and riding in other places with hills, you'll be way better off with a triple.

[KnottedYet]

Jamis Aurora.

Ohh, baby! <Knot wipes away drool>

I test rode one 3 times. I loved it. The shop monkeyed with it to make it fit me. I rode it more. Oh, it was a great bike. The bronze/brown color is just lovely in person. They offered to put my clipless (Frogs) on it and my Brooks on it so I could take it for a longer ride than the 4 or 5 miles I'd gone before.

It rode like butter, and fit like a glove!

It was love, it was romance, it was passion!

Then Limewave's Waterford (aka Flossie) came into my life. It was simpatico. I got the Waterford, but still have lustful thoughts about the Aurora.

If you can, go to the shop. Have them fit an Aurora to you. Take it for a good long ride. If something doesn't seem right, go straight back to the shop and re-fit it. (including the saddle, I found the stock saddle to be very uncomfortable) The Ritchey adjustable stems are a dream. The one I test rode had smooth road tires on it, but another one at another shop had knobbies on it. The road tires are nice. The Aurora has cyclocross geometry, which I find to be very kind to my womanly proportions. (my Kona and my Waterford have cyclocross geometry.)

And remember.... "steel is real". ;) (so full steel is realer!)

[madscot13]

I have a cromoly trek 520 and I love it. It is my only bike since an old Huffy, so that may be adding to my bias though. I have a touring bike and it does ride differently than a pure road bike- not as agile but very comfortable all around.

If this is the bike that makes you ooze with tingles and makes those little neckhairs stand on end- I think it will translate to pedal power. My bike does.

Check out the Jamis and let us know what you think. A jamis retailer is close to my house and I need another reason to ogle bikes.

[pooks]

Wow, Knotted. That's great info. That's the way I want to feel about my next bike; we'll see if the Aurora is the one!

I can't find where it gives the weight. Is there another term besides "weight?"

Oh -- found it. 26.5 pounds. That's heavier than I was hoping for, this time around.... Typical for steel?

[KnottedYet]

It's on the heavy side for steel. Don't forget the Aurora has very sturdy tubes for cyclocross and loaded touring, and the triple and big cassette and interruptor levers etc add weight, too.

Don't worry too much about the weight, just concentrate on the fit and feel.

When I rode it, I certainly didn't feel it was a heavy bike. I'm surprised by the 26.5 lbs you found.

(I test rode a full carbon bike that was probably 10 lbs less than that, and I was miserable. Go by how you and the bike get along, don't worry about weight until you ride it.)

[pooks]

Thanks!

[xeney]

I would agree that you shouldn't get sold on one type of material until you ride. I have three steel bikes and one aluminum bike that I ride regularly; the aluminum is the heaviest by far (because it's my mountain bike), and two of the steel bikes have a beautiful smooth ride and the other completely sucks on anything other than perfectly smooth pavement ... but was fine when my husband lent me a set of wheels that had big fat tires. (I gave them back because I decided I'd rather go fast and they made the bike feel kind of sluggish.) I think tires have a whole lot more to do with how much you feel the road than frame material does. You are going to feel the road a lot more on any road bike than you feel it now on your hybrid.

(I guess I should note that the two steel bikes that ride so smoothly are lugged, and the other one isn't, but I also have slightly fatter tires on the lugged steel bikes.)

Steel is pretty. I think even TIG-welded steel bikes tend to have a more elegant look than carbon or aluminum, but that is totally an aesthetic preference (I like the skinny tubes). But I test rode an aluminum road bike a while back, a pretty low-end one, and it had a smoother ride than my steel Bianchi. It didn't fit me, but it made me decide that if I decide to shop for a new road bike at some point, I will not rule out aluminum frames.

[mimitabby]

My Bianchi weighs 25 pounds (with saddle, small bag in rear) and it is a very fast bike.

[roguedog]

Jamis Aurora have a very good rep as a value conscious touring bike. On the touring forums when folks say they can't afford a Bruce Gordon or a Co-motion often Jamis and REI come up as suggestions.

Since it is a touring bike it will be a bit heavier than a bike with more racing geometry. Gotta be able to tote that load :)

I agree with Xeney. Go have fun and try as many bikes as your sanity wil take. You'll learn tons about what you like and what you don't like. When I was shopping, I rode not only all types of bikes but also all types of materials. I originally only zero'd in on steel and was suspicious of carbon and kinda eh on aluminum. But someone convinced me to try carbon and it was.. ok. KInda boring to me. I understood what people meant when they said carbon has a dead wooden feel. I tried some more bikes and then someone again said to try the carbon one. Told them my story.. but tried anyway. Wow, what a big diff.

So long story... just keep trying. Every make is a bit different. Try them.. get to know how your body responds to the various options out there so you get a better understanding of what it is that fits your body.

[pooks]

Thanks. It's reassuring in a way to know that there aren't any absolutes. Sure it would be nice if it were easier, but I did it the "easy" way before. Thanks for all the info and feedback!

[pooks]

Oh, but this raises another question -- should I take my Brooks saddle with me when I go test ride?

[7rider]

I have a friend who test rode a number of bikes and never heard of Jamis before the LBS showed him one. He took it for a spin and instantly fell in love with it. For him, everything about it was just right.
There are a number of nice bikes in that line. Note that some have a carbon fork (the Aurora does not) which can be nice for absorbing road shock.
Since you intend to keep your current bike for utilitarian rides, keep in mind the intended use for the new bike. Are fender and rack mounts a necessity? Do you intend to keep things light and take it out for "fitness" rides vs. commuting rides? Is a zippy bike what you're after? Something solid? Do you prefer stiff or compliant? If you don't know the answer to those questions - the answers may become more clear as you ride a few.
You might want to bring a notebook with you so you can record you impressions of each (before you forget them), noting the specs of each. You may like the ride a steel fork on a steel frame. Or, you may prefer a carbon fork. Only you can make that call.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

My Rivendell road bike- the Rambouillet- is about the same weight as the Jamis.
My bike is lighter than lots of hybrids are, heavier than carbon and aluminum bikes. It feels great to ME. :rolleyes: (Note: often on websites, they will quote the FRAME weight...WITHOUT the wheels, saddle, pedals, etc. This Jamis quote is for the whole bike. Don't confuse frame weight with whole bike weight when comparing).

[mimitabby]

yes, take your saddle. And you can measure their relative intelligence by their reaction to it.
and give us the full report later

[HillSlugger]

Oh, but this raises another question -- should I take my Brooks saddle with me when I go test ride?

If you've got clipless pedals you're used to, take them too.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

yes, take your saddle. And you can measure their relative intelligence by their reaction to it.
and give us the full report later

But if they sniff it, get out of there FAST! :eek: :eek: :cool:

[pooks]

Since you intend to keep your current bike for utilitarian rides, keep in mind the intended use for the new bike. Are fender and rack mounts a necessity?
(snip)
You might want to bring a notebook with you so you can record you impressions of each (before you forget them), noting the specs of each.

You know, I'm not so sure about keeping my current bike if I get the Jamis Aurora. I think I'd consider the Aurora a very-upgraded variation of the current, and not want two. Meaning, it would be easy to use the Aurora for errands and such, and now that somebody has actually confirmed that my current bike just flat doesn't fit, I've become more and more aware of that when I ride and I don't even think I'll want to ride it any more once I get one that feels good.

As for my saddle -- a guy at one of the "major" bike shops tried to talk me out of it when he saw it (and knew that I could send it back if I wanted). But the guy who did my $20 fit at the little local shop couldn't imagine ANYBODY not knowing that "support" is better than "plush," and loved my Brooks. I'm pretty sure it was the owner of that shop who saw me at the post office once and complimented my bike, "especially that saddle," and the young kid who worked there told me he'd even use a Brooks on his mountain bike if he could afford it.

Clipless? I haven't ventured that far yet.

I am hesitant to admit how much I love the idea of the Aurora. She's pretty, she's practical, and by replacing my current bike without spending a fortune, it means I can possibly spend a lot more money next time when I get my next bike....

[pooks]

Update:

I called the shop to see if they stock the Aurora and they don't. The guy said the closest thing they'd have for me to test is the Quest, and said the geometry is the same but it would feel a little different because it's lighter weight. He asked my height, then told me I'd need a 53". You can tell that by height? Hmmm.

[7rider]

Update:

I called the shop to see if they stock the Aurora and they don't. The guy said the closest thing they'd have for me to test is the Quest, and said the geometry is the same but it would feel a little different because it's lighter weight. He asked my height, then told me I'd need a 53". You can tell that by height? Hmmm.

No they're not.
I'm looking at the specs from their website and the Aurura has a much longer wheelbase, longer chainstays, and more relaxed headtube and seattube angles (for a 53 cm frame). The standover height on the Aurora is 31.4" vs. roughly 31" even for the Quest. The Quest will give you a quicker ride, as evidenced by its placement in their lineup. The Aurora is their touring bike and it's geometry reflects that.

He can give you a ballpark estimate, but you really need to swing a leg over to try it out.

[pooks]

Well, there are a lot of bike shops in the Dallas/Fort Worth area so I'm sure I can find another Jamis dealer, now that I know to look for one. The guy told me that the Aurora was his first road bike and he thought it was a great.

(Then stock them, I wanted to say, but of course he probably isn't the boss.)

[pooks]

Sigh. None of the LBSs stock the Aurora.

Oh well, that will force me to test ride lots of bikes (and drive farther if I really want to try the Aurora).

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Well, there are a lot of bike shops in the Dallas/Fort Worth area so I'm sure I can find another Jamis dealer, now that I know to look for one. The guy told me that the Aurora was his first road bike and he thought it was a great.

(Then stock them, I wanted to say, but of course he probably isn't the boss.)

Umm...if they don't stock the exact Jamis you want, can't they order it for you if you first figure out your frame size on another Jamis that they DO have in stock? They are Jamis dealers, aren't they?? I don't get it.
And no, you can't tell the frame size you need by your height alone over the phone. Ask to speak to the principle fitter there.

[pooks]

They can order it. What's customary in a case like this? Do they order them before you actually say you're going to buy it, or do you have to commit?

[7rider]

They can order it. What's customary in a case like this? Do they order them before you actually say you're going to buy it, or do you have to commit?

Ask the shop.
I had a shop offer to order me a Giant I was interested in once - no commitment. He figured, if I was interested in it, so would others and he could sell it if I didn't want it. It's not like you're ordering a custom frame.

[pooks]

Okay, obviously I just need to get out and start riding. Woo!

[pooks]

But if they sniff it, get out of there FAST! :eek: :eek: :cool:

Um ... I saw this several times before I realized you didn't write, "...sniff AT it."

Is there a kinky thread around here I missed?

::whistling::

[KnottedYet]

Oh, but this raises another question -- should I take my Brooks saddle with me when I go test ride?

I would.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Pooks-
I think you should call the Jamis people directly, explain your situation, and ask them for their suggestions about how you can test ride an Aurora and figure out your proper size frame in person. They may surprise you and make some cool arrangements, or have some info unknown to you about where to try them. I would think they would want to do everything possible to get you test riding their Aurora, as opposed to bike shops which (naturally) want to sell the stock they already have on the floor. Make the phone call- it can only help!

[KnottedYet]

I second what Lisa said! Great idea!!

[pooks]

I had thought about that, and am glad y'all think it's a good idea.

In fairness to the guy I spoke to yesterday, I've never been in his shop and he has no idea how serious I am. If I go in and test ride and repeat that I really want to test the Aurora, he might make the offer to order one for me to test on the assumption that it will sell.

Or he might not.

I think I should begin my test-ride process!

Next week.

After I finish my taxes.

Grrrr.

[pooks]

I keep replying to myself, but man, it chaps me that the WSD model of the Quest isn't the pretty copper color:

http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/bikes/07_bikes/questw.html

In general, I'm rarely fond of the colors used on WSD bikes. I'm not into pastels.

Fingers crossed that I don't need one.

[roguedog]

I'm with ya pooks. I rarely like anything WSD.. shoes, sneaks, bikes, whatever.

Wow.. there aren't many dealers out your way...

Name Dallas Bike Works
Address 6780 Abrams Road #107
Dallas, TX 75231
Phone (214) 341-8921
Distance 3.0 miles

Name Debo Cycle Sports
Address 4400 South Matlock Road
Arlington, TX 76018
Phone (817) 557-3326
E-mail debocyclesports@sbcglobal.net
Distance 27.1 miles

Name Bike-O-Rama
Address 530 South Locust
Denton, TX 76201
Phone (940) 380-0099
E-mail bikeoramatz@gmail.com
Distance 35.6 miles

[7rider]

I keep replying to myself, but man, it chaps me that the WSD model of the Quest isn't the pretty copper color:

http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/bikes/07_bikes/questw.html

In general, I'm rarely fond of the colors used on WSD bikes. I'm not into pastels.

Fingers crossed that I don't need one.

Wassa matta, Pooks?
Don't like the Easter egg look? :rolleyes: :D

[pooks]

I'm with ya pooks. I rarely like anything WSD.. shoes, sneaks, bikes, whatever.

Wow.. there aren't many dealers out your way...

Name Dallas Bike Works
Address 6780 Abrams Road #107
Dallas, TX 75231
Phone (214) 341-8921
Distance 3.0 miles

Name Debo Cycle Sports
Address 4400 South Matlock Road
Arlington, TX 76018
Phone (817) 557-3326
E-mail debocyclesports@sbcglobal.net
Distance 27.1 miles

Name Bike-O-Rama
Address 530 South Locust
Denton, TX 76201
Phone (940) 380-0099
E-mail bikeoramatz@gmail.com
Distance 35.6 miles

Yep. I checked with them all, and none of them carry the Aurora. The Dallas location is closest so I'll try them first and see if we can work out a way for me to test it, and I'll also contact Jamis directly.

And Regina, no Easter eggs, thank you!

[mimitabby]

That quest is celeste, the Bianchi color!

[KnottedYet]

On my computer it looks kinda robin's egg blue.

(I like the color of the Aurora. I didn't regret the lack of WSD with the Aurora. Love that slack cyclocross/touring geometry!)

I hope you can find a Jamis dealer with an Aurora in your size for you to try. We have 2 Jamis dealers with Auroras within a bike ride of my house... c'mon over!

[mimitabby]

Hey, that's a great idea! Pooks, come to Seattle to go bike shopping! I have a spare room you can stay in and so does Knot (this month!)
we have bike shops coming out of our ears!

[indysteel]

That quest is celeste, the Bianchi color!

I'm not a big fan of "girly" colors for a bike, but I love the color of my Bianchi. She's painted "bleached celeste," which is technically a "pastel." She's never struck me as being overly feminine however. The black and white decals and black bar tape help.

I actually like the color scheme of the Jamis WSD Quest. Of course, it's all about what appeals to Pooks....

Speaking of Bianchi, have you checked out Bianchi's steel line? The Eros and Eros Donna might work for you.

[pooks]

I'm pretty sure this is heresy but --

I don't care for the Bianchi celeste.

There now. I said it. (I do kind of like it on the one bike that they have kitted out with red tires and red accents, though.)

I would LOVE to come to Seattle. It's a place I've always wanted to visit. In fact, it's on our list of "possible places to retire," though I'm not sure how serious my husband is about that. But he's mentioned it before!

I love the Aurora. I will get a chance to ride it before I buy any other bike. I need to go back to that site and see if they have any dealers in Austin.

Road trip!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Road trip!

GO FOR IT! :D :D

[spokewench]

Jamis is a great bike. Where's Knot? She can talk a blue streak about them.

And I'm not so sure aluminum is that much lighter; because you have to use more aluminum to make the same strength as steel.

As they say; steel is real.


ps I like the red one WAY better, but I know you like yellow

In general Aluminum is lighter than steel. The tubes are oversized yes, but it is possible to butt (sp?) the material in the tubes and the material thickness is less than is required for a steel bike for the same strength; so in general an aluminum bike is lighter. I have an aluminum Klein hard tail mountain bike (made up there by you Mimi (or used to be)) and mine was made by Klein before they sold out. With mountain bike tires, it is lighter than most steel road frames!

[indysteel]

I'm pretty sure this is heresy but --

I don't care for the Bianchi celeste.

LOL. Pooks, the funny thing is, either do I, at least not the most "common" version of it. It reminds me of hospital scrubs. Thankfully, I like the bleached celeste though. IMO, it's a kinder, gentler version of the celeste that's used on the men's bike.

[pooks]

I like rich colors, not pastels. However, if I got a Bianchi, I might want the celeste just to feel authentic.

[mimitabby]

Pooks, I understand where you're coming from. My bianchi is not Celeste, and I think it does not look like a Bianchi to some because of it. you can spot a Celeste bianchi coming down the trail from a long ways. With my bike, the colors could be just about anything.
As I ride down the road sometimes when I see the Celeste colors I will greet the other riders "Hey Bianchi's!" I couldn't do that with those colored like my own, but that Bianchi Volpe with it's army green is another you can't mistake for another.

[SouthernBelle]

I like rich colors, not pastels. However, if I got a Bianchi, I might want the celeste just to feel authentic.

Have you seen the black and celeste Bianchi in Bicycling's buyer's guide. About equal amounts of each color, maybe even a little more black. It's beautemous.

[xeney]

My husband just got a brand new Vigorelli frame -- this one (http://www.bianchiusa.com/05_vigorelli.html). It is so pretty that I can't stand it. He doesn't really like the color -- he'd rather have celeste -- but this was such a great deal that he grabbed it anyway. It is too big for me or I'd trade him for my celeste Veloce.

But I think celeste is prettier in person than in pictures. In person the pearlescent paint is pretty awesome ... in pictures it just looks like a flat aqua color.

[spazzdog]

I'm fond of "wacky" paintjobs... my specialized is the zebra scheme used by Cipollini when he rode for Acqua & Sapone.

I'm not sure what I'll do with the next bike I buy, should there ever be one. Maybe custom it from one of my own digital paintings.

spazz

[kathryn]

I have a Lemond Sarthe (not WSD) and I love love love it.

It fits me perfectly, but perhaps most importantly, it's a beautiful shade of orange.
http://2006.lemondbikes.com/2005_bikes/sarthe_classic.shtml

Steel is wonderful, I think, both aesthetically and for the smooth ride. The Lemond was more pricey than the Jamis (about $1600), but they used to have a Croix De Fer model (in both mens and WSD) with the same frame but 105 components for cheaper, you might still see it in shops with older stock.

My new cross/touring bike is also steel: a Gunnar. It's not as classic looking as a Rivendell (or Waterford, Gunnar's parent company, for that matter), but it's still beautiful, and hand made in the USA. Since it's still a production bike, it's cheaper than a full custom Rivendell, too. As a plus, since they're made by Waterford, for an extra $125 you can pick your dream paintjob from a big catalog!

[pooks]

That Vigorelli is sharp, Xeney. The yellow Giro I saw online is, too. (But it was a 2006 and they don't appear to have a 2007.)

Spazz, any pictures?

[Batbike]

hmmm ... steel bike, funky paint job (not girly), AND italian (thought I would add that since you are talking Bianchi) ... I would vote for:

:rolleyes: Pegoretti Responsorium:cool: :D

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=PRODUCT&PRODUCT.ID=3668

[pooks]

Now that is truly a funky paint job!

[spazzdog]

hey pooks! somewhere on TE theres a pic of my bike (i think). it's not steel... i was distracted by the discussion of paint jobs and forgot my manners

:o spazz

[KnottedYet]

Hey, Pooks, this bike is a nifty option in steel. It comes in a frameset (like Soma) rather than a full bike (like Aurora or Surly Long Haul Trucker) but I've seen built-up ones for sale at bike shops pretty reasonably priced.

http://www.salsacycles.com/casseroll.html

[Trek420]

hey pooks! somewhere on TE theres a pic of my bike (i think). it's not steel... i was distracted by the discussion of paint jobs and forgot my manners

:o spazz

Used to be one here, post #89

http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=1152&page=6&highlight=epesi+specialized

....but the link expired? We need another picture of your pony.

[pooks]

knotted -- that casseroll is great looking!

[mimitabby]

that bike looks edible. :)

the Pegoretti responsorium is over the top IMHO. However, wouldn't it be fun to PAINT a bike frame like that? Why should Dario P. have all the fun? Maybe one of these days I'll get a bike frame and paint it up my own way and then let a bike shop put the top coats on for protection.

[KnottedYet]

Pooks - I spent an hour today wandering around my LBS while Flossie was getting her compact double.

They have a gorgeous elegant Salsa Casaroll fitted up to be a tourer for $1200. They said that it does come as a frameset, and it can be fitted out however you like (even a single speed!) for as much or as little $$ as suits you.

I also looked at a Kona Sutra, a steel tourer, comes as a complete bike. It has disc brakes. It is a tough looking and sturdily built beast of a bike. Costs about $1200 also. The one I looked at was a 2006, and on sale. http://www.konaworld.com/bikes/2006/sutra.htm

[pooks]

Those are very nice, Knot. I like them!

[pooks]

This is weird. I got email telling me about a new post that began:

I have a Lemond Sarthe (not WSD) and I love love love it.

It fits me perfectly, but perhaps most importantly, it's a beautiful shade of orange.
http://2006.lemondbikes.com/2005_bikes/sarthe_classic.shtml


But it's not here. Is it? Is it just me?

:confused:

[Veronica]

Post # 62 in this thread.

V.

[pooks]

How weird. I missed it, and didn't get the email telling me about it until today!

Thanks.

[kaian]

Are there steel bikes with 650 wheels out there? I have a 47cm Trek WSD and I have really gotten used to the smaller wheels. I like the feel. I would love a nice steel bike, but not sure I like the feeling of the 700 wheels. Just curious.

[mimitabby]

yes, there are. but they might be custom. I am pretty sure I've seen some bike companys that put 650s on the smaller bikes.

[pooks]

Does the Rivendell Bleriot have 650s? I think it does.

[xeney]

650b's, probably not the 650c's she's used to.

[Eden]

Are there steel bikes with 650 wheels out there? I have a 47cm Trek WSD and I have really gotten used to the smaller wheels. I like the feel. I would love a nice steel bike, but not sure I like the feeling of the 700 wheels. Just curious.

I know there are - though I'm curious myself. I ride two bikes regularly. One is a 47cm 650 wheel bike and the other a 44cm 700 wheel bike and to tell the truth I find no differences in the way the two handle.

some 650 wheel steel bikes
Rodriquez here in Seattle (they do a lot of custom work, but they have some stock frames too and are in love with 650 wheels) http://www.rodcycle.com/
Terry of course - not all the bikes have the odd wheel setup
of course there are a plethora of custom builders too, though this is an expensive proposition... heck if I had all the money in the world I think I might buy a custom Vanilla....

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Rivendell bikes are all steel. Various models come with 700, 650B, or 26" wheels...some models come with 700 wheels on the larger frames and 650B wheels on the smaller frames.

[Kathi]

You can get a Serotta Fierte in steel in a 48p with 650c wheels. I demoed it and it is a very nice bike. It also comes in ti and ti/carbon.

http://www.serotta.com/pages/fierte_steel.html

[Eden]

You can get a Serotta Fierte in steel in a 48p with 650c wheels. I demoed it and it is a very nice bike. It also comes in ti and ti/carbon.

http://www.serotta.com/pages/fierte_steel.html

I thought the smaller Serottas came with 650 wheels also. They should be more clear on their web site (there is a note at the bottom that the Fierte only comes with 700c wheels....) I think that they just mean that they won't do smaller or wider wheels on their stock frames built for 700's.

[nicole309]

After my first week of riding I was still pretty much hating it. I had been dragged down the driveway by my pedals, ran into a fence, etc....
I went to a bike show in Seattle and the only bike there that caught my eye was the Jamis Aurora. It really is as pretty in person. I picture it with a nice brown leather Brooks saddle and some nice canvas bags. It is pretty...

[Kathi]

I thought the smaller Serottas came with 650 wheels also. They should be more clear on their web site (there is a note at the bottom that the Fierte only comes with 700c wheels....) I think that they just mean that they won't do smaller or wider wheels on their stock frames built for 700's.

I agree that comment is confusing. Here is what they say about the Ottrott,

"Minimum seattube size on an Ottrott ST is 46cm C-C
Ottrott ST available for 700c wheels only"

which led me to believe that they wouldn't make an Ottrott with 650c wheels. What it means is that they won't make a 650c wheeled Ottrott with carbon seat stays, for 650's they use ti seatstays.

BTW, Serotta did an awesome job on my Ottrott with 650c wheels.

[pooks]

I went to a bike show in Seattle and the only bike there that caught my eye was the Jamis Aurora. It really is as pretty in person. I picture it with a nice brown leather Brooks saddle and some nice canvas bags. It is pretty...

I'm lusting after that bike. Sigh. And I already have the Brooks!

[KnottedYet]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I loved the Jamis Aurora.

It rode like silk, like it was made for me. (once the LBS put the bars up higher like I prefer them) I was deeply tempted. But then Flosshilde stole my heart....:D

Pooks, I think you really need to ride a Jamis Aurora. Even if you have to drive a ways. (did you say it's 45 minutes to a shop with an Aurora?) Then you'll at least know if it's still in the running. :D

[pooks]

Alas, the closest shop with an Aurora is in Denver and I'm in Dallas. (Yes, I've been looking!)

I did ride a Jamis Quest and loved it, though. But the Aurora has my heart.

[uforgot]

You mean that you can't get an Aurora to try in Dallas? Forgive me if this has been addressed, but sounds like Jamis isn't taking care of their customers. Not like Dallas is some tiny little burg and they won't sell it. If this is truly the case, maybe we can start an email campaign. Should make a difference if they are hearing from all over the US about someone in Dallas who can't get one of their bikes to try. Or just point them to this message board. This board has convinced me to buy items of which I had never heard. It's a powerful advertising tool.

I'm in, I'll write Jamis. Are you game Pooks? Oh, and we need to make it clear this is just for a test ride, you aren't necessarily going to buy it, but d*&#@t, we should be able to test ride anything on their website within 100 miles, doncha think?

[pooks]

I emailed Jamis and told them I'd been looking everywhere for an Aurora and hadn't found one in the state of Texas, and could they help me out.

I got a perfunctory email back telling me that the Auroras are in high demand, so it's unlikely I'd find a dealer with one on the floor, and telling me to find a list of dealers on their website and call them.

I wrote back and told them:


I'm sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear when I said:


Question: I'm very interested in an Aurora. However, I live in Dallas, TX
and have been unable to find a dealer who stocks it so I can test ride.

I've already gone through your list of dealers near me and called them all.*

So I guess your response is, there's nothing else I can do.

Thanks anyway but I have to say, I'm less than impressed the way you handled this simple question. You told me I'm unlikely to find one. You told me to do what I've already done. I'm thinking customer service might not be high on your list of priorities, and as much as it grieves me (because I love what I see and read about that bike) I think I'll just mark it (or any other Jamis ) off my list.

Of course that got an apology and a very nice reply, but the answer was still that the Aurora was a niche bike and most dealers don't sell them or stock them at all, so finding one on the floor would be difficult, and that they can't keep them in the warehouse. Evidently it's a case where if you get measured and fitted and order one through a Jamis dealer, you'll probably get one, but they aren't stocked often.

When I responded and thanked them and told them that I'd searched as far away as Colorado for one, since we'll be there in June, they then told me the name of a dealer in Denver that had just beeh shipped an order.

Edited to add: The place where I tested the Quest could order it for me, but I doubt if they'd want to unless I was already committed to buying it. It wouldn't be just for a test ride. The Quest they have is a WSD 2006 (which is too small for me) and they haven't sold it, yet, so they may feel justified in not wanting to order "just in case" somebody wants it.

*Also Edited to add: When I said "near me" I should have been more specific -- I called Louisiana, Oklahoma, and emailed every dealer in Texas and some in Boulder, to no avail, which is why I was annoyed at being referred to their dealer list. OTOH, I hadn't made that clear in my initial email, so maybe I was too snarky.

[KnottedYet]

Hmmmm.... it's a niche bike, but it's so popular that they can't keep it in stock?

I think they need to make more. Lots more!

[pooks]

The person (no name so I'm not sure if it was he or she) said they have increased their number by 30% every year and still can't keep them in the warehouse. But that bike stores don't stock them because they're a niche bike.

It doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?

Anyway, I'm not sure an email campaign would mean anything. It's probably a matter of me letting the local Jamis dealer know I really do want one, and then ordering it. I'm not at that point yet, especially since I have had an unexpected expense dumped on me recently. (A trip to Hawaii that I hadn't planned to take; I know it's a good thing, but it means putting off my bike! Whimper.)

More time to test ride, though. And since I'll be passing through Denver, it may mean I'll give that bike shop a visit when I'm there in June if they still have them in stock.

[SouthernBelle]

Pooks, check for Hawaiian dealers!

[uforgot]

I had a Jamis Quest, loved the ride, but it wasn't a good fit. When you first started looking at these bikes, I posted how I thought it was more of a racing geometry and knotted indicated that the one she tested had the seat higher than the bars. I looked at the Quest vs Aurora geometry and sure enough, they are slightly different. I'm no expert, but I would caution you on test riding a Quest and thinking the Aurora would be the same. I don't think they are.

[KnottedYet]

Yeah, the Aurora I rode had the bars higher than the seat. I had them adjust the bars a scootch higher still (cuz I know I like them that way) and it was lovely.

[pooks]

Oh yes, I'll certainly test ride on Oahu! (wink)

That's where Konas come from, isn't it?

I love that Quest because it's the only steel bike I've ridden, and was enough to convince me that I want one! Although I'll continue to test ride all and sundry. Why not?

But the price of the Jamis is right and the color is gorgeous.

I lust for that bike.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I think the Aurora is intended more as a touring/randoneering bike than a "racing" bike. It says it has relaxed geometry.

[uforgot]

I think the Aurora is intended more as a touring/randoneering bike than a "racing" bike. It says it has relaxed geometry.

That's exactly what I think, too, which would make them feel completely different.

[uforgot]

I sold my Quest frame and fork on ebay for $150. Previously I had purchased the entire bike for $330. (I think the list price was around $1500) The Jamis bikes seem to go rather cheaply. Could you save a search on the Quest or Aurora and then get the frame powdercoated the color you want? You still may save a bundle. You might have to wait awhile, and you know that you already liked the Quest. You could shop guilt free, also since you have tried so hard to purchase what you want locally.

[pooks]

Yes, it's definitely a touring bike. They market it that way. Is your Rambouillet (sp) a touring bike, Lisa SH?

I think (if it was a good fit) the Aurora would be a perfect bike for me because:

1) It's a considerable step up from my current 38 pound shaftdrive Hybrid, but at an extremely good price.
2) Its light weight and smooth ride might keep me happy for a very long time.
3) I could afford to buy it much sooner than the other bikes I'm likely to want.
4) I can always get a road bike later if I decide I really want one, and keep the Aurora, too!

I have it all worked out except for the immediate cash and the, well, ability to test ride the bike.

[pooks]

We crossposted, uforgot. Wow, that's an idea. Of course I'm not really sure what size I need ... but I'm definitely going to keep my eye out for one. Thanks!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Yes, it's definitely a touring bike. They market it that way. Is your Rambouillet (sp) a touring bike, Lisa SH?

Good question. All of Rivendell's bike are made for "real life" riding on varied road surfaces. conditions, and distances. Thus, they all have slightly more relaxed geometry than typical road/racing bikes. They also all are set up to have their handlebars about the same level as the seat, and are all made to accept wider tires so as to be able to ride gravel roads, etc. They are of course heavier than carbon bikes. But as to my Rambouillet- the Rambouillet was billed as the most "road bike like" of the various Rivendell models. It's not made for extra heavy loaded touring (like the Atlantis), or for cyclocross (like the Legolas), for example.
It has some road bike type features and some touring bike features. It is definitely more a touring bike than a true "racing" bike though! :eek: It can go fast....with the right engine (like my DH, for instance!) ;)

[pooks]

So this is a Jamis Aurora, but it doesn't appear to be steel.

1995 Aurora (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170107313126&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1)

[uforgot]

It says it's steel, and it looks like it. I wonder if that's the current Aurora geometry listed or the 1995 geometry. Sometimes they aren't the same. The seat is way above the bars, but who knows if it's too high.

Hey, I just saw the price. Mine was a 2002 Quest with the Shimano 105 on it and it was $330. I think it's too high.

[pooks]

Chromoly is steel? Oh. I thought it was aluminum.

And, um, oh NOW I see where it says "steel." I swear I couldn't find that anywhere, before.

Maybe I need caffeine.

[HillSlugger]

Chromoly is steel? Oh. I thought it was aluminum.

And, um, oh NOW I see where it says "steel." I swear I couldn't find that anywhere, before.

Maybe I need caffeine.

Chromoly is an abbreviation for "chromium-molybdenum steel" (sometimes spelled "cro-mo"). (from Wikipedia)

[KnottedYet]

That bike is steel.

The seat can be raised or lowered, even a new seatpost put on if you need a different range to fine tune the saddle position.

The stem is quilled, so the bars can be raised or lowered in about 30 seconds.

The way the bike fits the current owner is not necessarily going to be the way it fits you. I needed to lower Flossie's seat much lower than Limewave had it, to the point I needed to have the seatpost end cut shorter. LBS didn't charge me for that. I needed to have a shorter reach/higher rise stem put on Flossie, which came to about $50 with parts and labor. (I got a pretty one.)

$300 is a bit on the high side, but if this bike calls out to you, decide accordingly. The pictures look good.

Even if you buy the bike and end up not liking it, because it IS a Jamis Aurora, you will be able to re-sell it easily.

(Edit: BTW if I had somewhere to store that bike, I'd be bidding on it right now. Just as it is with the wider tires and lower gear cassette. Of course, my tax return is already spoken for, so I'm just talking thru my hat... but I'd be seriously tempted.)

[KnottedYet]

I'm 5'8" and that bike will fit me great. (though I'd probably get a shorter reach stem eventually) If you get it and are unhappy, PM me and we can cut a deal... :D I'm not kidding. Really, if you get it and decide it's not the right bike for you, PM me!

Start bidding, Pooks!

[pooks]

It's pretty, isn't it?

[pooks]

But you say $300 is high, and it's only going to go up from there.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

But you say $300 is high, and it's only going to go up from there.

I think that bike is worth way more than $300, especially with all those parts they've included.
Looks good to me. The 54" would probably fit me too. I'd put slimmer tires though. (And black ones!) :eek:

[uforgot]

No no no! It's a Jamis and they don't sell for much on ebay. The Quest is more expensive than the aurora and the most it goes for on ebay is around $400. The same components on a Bianchi, however, bring a much higher price. It's the beauty of eBay. I had a daily search on Jamis bikes for a long time before I got mine. I know they are better than that, but a 2002 Quest was mine for $330. Shimano 105 flight deck in like new condition. That's about right and the Quest retails for more than the Aurora, (Quest $1375 Aurora $850) so a 1995 Aurora is absolutely not worth that. A 2002-2006 maybe. Just wait. There will be one, but they don't come along often. You can find the geometrys on the later bikes, too, to compare to something you have ridden. I'll be surprised if it gets a bid. But hey, I've been wrong on here before. I just think you need to be patient. I did the research. You would be better off paying $850 for a new Aurora than $300 for one that is over 10 years old, doncha think? And trust me, they don't hold their value. I stripped the Shimano 105 parts off and sold my frame. No interest locally, and not much on ebay. Not that they aren't good bikes, I just really think no one knows about them.

[uforgot]

Go to completed items on ebay and it will give you a good idea of what they sell for.

[KnottedYet]

Meanwhile, you've got me interested in the 10-year-old Aurora if you don't want it.

Knot (who loves her 10 year old Waterford)

Edit: you could also try contacting the seller and offering less. Or wait to see if he lowers the price.

[KnottedYet]

I think that bike is worth way more than $300, especially with all those parts they've included.
Looks good to me. The 54" would probably fit me too. I'd put slimmer tires though. (And black ones!) :eek:

He's offering a pair of 23's, too.
Lisa, you and I are biased, because we loooooooove the steel bikes! I'd be all over this Jamis Aurora if I could even remotely justify it! (but being between jobs... well, must restrain myself). Maybe you and I could split the cost and share it! :D

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

He's offering a pair of 23's, too.
Lisa, you and I are biased, because we loooooooove the steel bikes! I'd be all over this Jamis Aurora if I could even remotely justify it! (but being between jobs... well, must restrain myself). Maybe you and I could split the cost and share it! :D

Yeah you're right, we are biased. Maybe we could ship it back and forth every few months! :eek:

I saw an old blue English-made steel Raleigh in the garbage on my ride this morning. It was awfully hard to just leave it there, but it needed ALL new components and I think it was a bit small for me anyway. I couldn't justify what it would cost to redo it. Sad.

[uforgot]

You guys are impossible!:eek: Anyway, I'm not sure since I'm really only familiar with Shimano 105, ultegra and dura-ace, but isn't Tiagra and RSX their low end components? that's what is on this bike. The only 105 part is the sti shifters. Maybe someone who has dealt with components can give an opinion?

And oh yeah, I'm STILL in the steel club. I have a steel Burley Sahalie that rides like a dream. I solemnly swear to never own an aluminum road bike again.

And Pooks? Don't bid just yet...let it ride until the last day. I'm still wondering if you will see any bids at all. (Unless Lisa and Knotted jump in there!)

[pooks]

Oh, I wouldn't bid now, you're right, uforgot. And I see your point on all of it. Thanks.

[stella]

You guys are impossible!:eek: Anyway, I'm not sure since I'm really only familiar with Shimano 105, ultegra and dura-ace, but isn't Tiagra and RSX their low end components? that's what is on this bike. The only 105 part is the sti shifters. Maybe someone who has dealt with components can give an opinion?

Tiagra is a step down from 105. not sure about the rsx--I've gotta look at the advert again.

[Eden]

Tiagra is a step down from 105. not sure about the rsx--I've gotta look at the advert again.

RSX is part of the mt bike line of components, though I'm not sure where it fits in the quality scale

[stella]

RSX is part of the mt bike line of components, though I'm not sure where it fits in the quality scale

oh, yeah! I think they were somewhere in the "tiagra/105" range for mtn bikes.

I think my kona had an rsx rear derailliuer (sp?) and the front was xt . does shimano still use the same "names" for mtn bike components that they used in the 1990's?

[Fredwina]

RSX is part of the mt bike line of components, though I'm not sure where it fits in the quality scale

i had bike with RSX - it was a road group (my first bike with STIs)- but low end - think Sora . It came as both 7 and 8 -speed . I had a 7 -worked fine

[KnottedYet]

There are 3 of us, we all like steel, we're all the same size, OH NO, MUST HAVE IT!!!! :eek:

Let's just buy it, and share custody...

(I even like the color, and it has the same components as my old Trek, which I sold and never should have. Peachy keen!)

[KnottedYet]

Still no bids. I don't do eBay. Do most people wait until the last minute to place bids? Do sellers ever lower their minimum bid?

[stella]

Still no bids. I don't do eBay. Do most people wait until the last minute to place bids? Do sellers ever lower their minimum bid?

i recently sold some stuff on e-bay for the first time (usually a buyer:)). The stuff I sold did not get bids until the last hour or two, then there was a frenzy the last few minutes.

[mimitabby]

Knot, sometimes when something does not sell, the seller drops the bid.
Also, if something is on reserve for say, 200 dollars, if you bid 150 they might contact you later to see if you'd like to buy.

[uforgot]

Usually it is a last minute frenzy, but I noticed it now has a bid!

[KnottedYet]

Usually it is a last minute frenzy, but I noticed it now has a bid!

NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! :eek:

(Knot scurries around trying to scrounge up $301....;) )
(Knot begins chanting her new mantra: I don't need another bike, I don't need another bike, even if I do get a better job soon, I don't need another bike)
(Knot begins hyperventilating slightly)

[pooks]

I won't be bidding on it. It may be a great bike, but it's not the only Aurora out there, and one of the things I love about the current bike is its copper color. I wouldn't base a decision to buy solely on that, but considering I have yet to determine for sure what size I need and I do have that trip to Hawaii to pay for -- I think it's just not the time or bike for me!

[KnottedYet]

Hey, bike color is important! Hopefully Jamis won't change it next year. (It was copper last year, too. Very pretty.)

I'm just amazed at how much difficulty you're having finding an Aurora to try out. Come to Seattle, we've got at least two bike shops near me that carry it! (TiCycles and Free Range Cycles)

Have you ridden a Surly Long Haul Trucker? Trek and I saw one at my LBS and thought of you. (this is the same shop with the Salsa Casaroll. They really like steel bikes)

Here's a little eyecandy: http://www.somafab.com/speedsterplus.html

[uforgot]

Flossie's big sister/brother?

waterford (http://cgi.ebay.com/I-Call-Him-Golden-Boy-2000-Waterford-2200-Road-Bike_W0QQitemZ330114876188QQihZ014QQcategoryZ98084QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[KnottedYet]

Flossie's big sister/brother?

waterford (http://cgi.ebay.com/I-Call-Him-Golden-Boy-2000-Waterford-2200-Road-Bike_W0QQitemZ330114876188QQihZ014QQcategoryZ98084QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)


Yeah, I thought that, too! It was startling to see "my" bike!