WSD vs Men's Bikes

[pooks]

Other than step-throughs, what are the differences between WSD and Men's bikes? A lot of women ride Men's, right? Is there a certain kind of body type that is more suited to a Men's frame?

[salsabike]

Major diff---shorter top tube in WSDs, for those of us with relatively short arms and torsos. It was definitely something I needed to get. So, conversely, women with longer arms and/or torsos may do fine or better with men's frames.

[pooks]

Ah, okay! That makes sense. I think I have longish arms and torso probably average for my height -- 5'8". Of course, I'll find out for sure when I start actually testing new bikes.

Thanks for the info.

[SadieKate]

WSD is does not mean step-through. Step-through is simply a type of frame, commonly called a mixte or the woman's version of a hybrid. Waterford, Bob Jackon, Mercian, etc. are a few of the very short list of companies that I know of that actually make serious road bikes in a step-through or mixte design; you probably won't run into any of these unless you try really, really hard. Many standard road bikes today have sloping top tubes but not enough to be called a mixte.

Shorter top tube, maybe shorter cranks, narrower bars, shorter reach brakes, maybe lighter tubing, different saddle. There are a number of things that may make a bike "WSD." Of course, some companies simply paint it a different color and call it WSD.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Ah, okay! That makes sense. I think I have longish arms and torso probably average for my height -- 5'8". Of course, I'll find out for sure when I start actually testing new bikes.

Thanks for the info.

If you are 5'8" with longish arms, in my opinion the odds are that you can be comfortably fit to a "regular" bike. You might consider getting a "slightly" shorter stem than they would normally put on for a man though- like maybe 2cm shorter than their usual stem. Of course everyone is different...

[pooks]

Thanks again, more good info!

[DarcyInOregon]

I am 5'8" and ride a WSD. Suzie is 5'9" and with longer arms than I have, and she rides a WSD. Suzie and I ride Pilots that are the same frame size. I had my stem and handlebars swapped out to make the bike fit me well. Suzie is having problems with her saddle, that is all, and she doesn't appear to have any fit problems.

Pooks, when I selected my WSD last year, it was based more on having had bikes in my past that were men's bikes, and there was always something about those bikes that made my rides uncomfortable. I biked anyway because cycling brings me great joy, but I hated it that the bikes were designed for a male, and not for a female. The bike I have now is the best bike of my life and I will need a dramatic change in my physical condition to make me desire another bike.

When you go to look at bikes, keep an open mind. A men's bike might suit you, but then again, a WSD might suit you too. Since you are brand new to road bikes, you might consider renting one first to get used to a road bike, before you look to purchase.

Darcy

[silver]

If you are 5'8" with longish arms, in my opinion the odds are that you can be comfortably fit to a "regular" bike. You might consider getting a "slightly" shorter stem than they would normally put on for a man though- like maybe 2cm shorter than their usual stem. Of course everyone is different...

Very good Lisa!!!!

I'm 5'8" have very long arms and a regular torso. I ride a 58 cm regular (not WSD) bike. And I've replaced the 110 mm stem with a 90mm.

[aicabsolut]

It's not just arm length. It's about effective torso length, which has to do with the reach of your arms, your actual torso length, lower back flexibility, etc. A lot of long waisted people need to sit more upright for lower back comfort and even though the torso is tall, the effective reach is shorter than another person their height.

Femur length may also be a factor. A woman with longer femurs may need to sit back farther to get the proper knee position relative to the pedal axle, and thus the bars get even farther away.

The best thing is to go sit on a bunch of different bikes. Women's components like bars and saddles can be added easily to a regular bike.

If the top tube is too short, you may feel stiffness in your shoulders (you may tend to hunch the shoulders to have straighter elbows and take weight off your hands and pressure off your triceps), or you may feel that your elbows are in your lap, or that there's a hunch in your back.

[pooks]

Okay -- so there's no shortcut to know! That means when I'm surfing the web looking at bikes, I need to look at both until I know better what kind of bike fits me, or probably until I finally find the right bike.

Long femurs? I wonder if that's my problem. I can't sit far enough back on my current bike to be really comfortable.

[7rider]

You can surf the web for initial research, but please don't buy your bike on the web. A bike could look great on paper, but when you start turning the wheels, it won't be right for you.
The ONLY way you will know if a WSD or a "regular" bike is right for you is to test ride!!! Make an appointment with a shop that carries a few of the bikes that make your short list, and have them set up for you to demo (and be open to their suggestions of bikes that you didn't even consider). Don't just ride around the parking lot. Take it out for a ride. Try hills. Flats. Fast. Slow. Turns. How does it feel? Think you won't be able to tell the difference between one bike and another?? You might surprise yourself.

[Thorn]

I was having a chat with our LBS about bike fit. He was complaining that he dislikes the label of WSD and the typical color choices of WSD bikes. Not, however, because the rare woman like me comes in and says, "No way am I buying a pink bike!!!"

His complaint is that he gets men in his shop who have short arms/torsos and fit perfectly on a WSD bike. Once or twice he got the guy to buy a neutral colored WSD model, but most men won't even consider a "girl's" bike.

Anwyay, it all comes down to fit. Your build and the build of the bike. Be open minded. Find a LBS you trust and a fitter that knows how to fit.

[pooks]

I definitely won't be buying another bike on the internet. The bike I have was bought that way because it is chainless and that's what my husband wanted, and so he ordered them. He said he didn't want to have to deal with chains. I guess when I get a road bike, I'll have to learn how to deal with them. Urrrrgh.

On the other hand, I love the bike I have and will continue to use it for utility cycling, which is all nearby. I don't think I'll want to put baskets and such on my road bike. Even though my funds will be limited and I won't be buying an expensive bike, I think I'll be wanting to keep the road bike as lightweight as possible.

[bike4ever]

Pooks -

Please keep in mind that not all bikes companies have a different frame for their WSD bikes in comparison to their "regular" bikes. One prime example is Giant. If you look at the actual frame measurements between their two small sizes, the frames are exactly the same. Their women's versions have smaller handlebars and different component sizes than their "regular" versions. Be careful to research frame size before settling completely on a WSD bike.

Good luck.

[pooks]

I'll definitely be test-riding any bike I buy and not buying until I'm certain it is a great fit. The surfing I did last night was looking at bikes in my price range, and then (okay, shoot me) colors. I figured I'd test ride the bikes that I loved the color of, just in case it actually turned out to be that great fit.

But I also know once I actually get to the bike shop, all bets are off and I will likely end up on totally different bikes. It was just a bit of "window shopping" before the serious shopping begins.

However, this test ride thing. When I test rode bikes before, nobody offered to let me go off for a few miles; it was just a matter of riding around the parking lot. Is that something they don't offer unless you ask?

And of course I don't know how to change gears or anything, so that's going to be problematical, unless I stick to the kind that are in the twist-handle. Does that make me a big weenie?

[Trek420]

However, this test ride thing. When I test rode bikes before, nobody offered to let me go off for a few miles; it was just a matter of riding around the parking lot. Is that something they don't offer unless you ask?

Depends on the shop.

I always say you are shopping for two things; the bike AND a shop.

While signing a release or waver is to be expected, and or maybe leave them a copy of your id being limited to the parking lot is not. Sometimes though that's all it takes to know "wrong bike" or "wrong shop".

My LBS has a small very small "fleet" of loaner bikes, he's loaned me a road bike when my baby's in for a while, and I know if I wanted to test ride anything I'd be able to take it for a spin up the hill but then as Chris says "I know where you live".

Another shop I go to will special order in my size (tiny) in any bike even if I just wanted to test ride. They know they'll sell it, large base of women cyclists. Since there's no parking lot....I'd have to take it out.

These two shops I have a relationship with so they would let me ride.

When Knott and I did a pilgrimage to Rivendell they offered a test ride right off the bat. Again there's no lot so you could really ride. They had I think it was a Legolas in my size....and favorite color....I feared for my REI Visa. ;) :cool: :rolleyes:

[pooks]

Where is Rivendell?

I'm excited about looking for a new bike. My goal is to drag this process out. Research, test ride, then research some more. I now know the frustration of getting the wrong size bike. I don't want that to happen again!

[Fredwina]

Rivendell (http://www.rivbike.com/)is in Northern California. as fasr test riding , as trek says, that really depends on the shop. (test)Ride lots!

[pooks]

Well, fortunately I can't afford the Rivendell I'd love to have -- I believe to get the Coleman green you have to get a custom. So I won't be fretting over the fact that Northern California is so far away from Dallas.

I've seen several that I like the looks of. Right now my fave in my price range (from appearance only, which I realize doesn't count) is the Bianchi Giro. I love the yellow, but isn't it illegal or immoral not to get Celeste?

[pooks]

Oh yeah, I also like this one:

http://wheelsinmotiontexas.com/itemdetails.cfm?catalogId=39&id=1059

I'm really jonesing for a yellow bike.

[KnottedYet]

Back when Diamondback was a good bike and mtb was just starting (uh, like 20 years ago! Geez, that was a long time! I feel old!!!) I had a beautiful bright yellow Diamondback. People stopped me in the street to ask me what kind of bike it was.

Yellow bikes are cool.

One of my coworkers has that Cannondale. She loves it.

[SJCzar]

My current bike is a "regular" Trek 2100. The first season I rode it everything felt fine. Last year I rode double the miles of the year before and started having alot of neck and shoulder pain by the end of the summer.

I took a Trek Madone for an eighty mile test ride one of the days that I did a week long tour last summer. Great bike, but didn't feel a big enough comfort difference to think much about changing. In the fall I attended a WSD demo day at my LBS. I tried a WSD Madone, after having a quick fitting on it. It was a cold and rainy ride but I was so in love with that bike. They were starting to get worried about me because I didn't come back for almost an hour. My upper body felt much more comfortable.

I'm 5"4". 30" Inseam. Not sure about arm length.

[anakiwa]

Just want to put in another plug for looking at the WSD bikes.

I've spent a lot of time riding on unisex bikes with neck pain and/or inability to effectively reach the drops.

I must have relatively long legs. I don't think my arms are short, but I obviously need a shorter reach.

I'm now riding a custom bike, and the difference is amazing. If I were to buy another stock (non-custom) bike I'd be extremely wary of anything that's not WSD.

Good luck! (And don't let anyone talk you into thinking you should stretch out over a bike with the wrong proportions.)

[northstar]

I just got my first road bike, and thank goodness I found a great LBS. I had never test ridden a bike beyond the parking lot, so I checked out the area and looked for a good route. Then, before I took the first one out for a spin, I asked the sales guy where he would recommend I take it out. You want to try it out on more than just side streets and flat terrain. They were really helpful. If you are in a good shop, you should feel comfortable asking. They want to help get you on the right bike.

Try all kinds of bikes. I went in thinking I was going to be comfortably fine on a men's bike, and I happened to come home with a WSD. And I'm 5'8". It totally depends on the person and how they feel most comfortable.

Good luck, and have fun! It's exciting!

(Edited for spelling!)

[East Hill]

Many standard road bikes today have sloping top tubes but not enough to be called a mixte.


The sloping top tube is not enough to make such a bike into a mixte. A true mixte has DOUBLE top tubes.

(Like most of my bikes...:D )

East Hill

[short cut sally]

Pooks, Fuji makes a yellow bike called the Roubaix..Its not a WSD though if thats what you're looking for..am getting mine fitted right now. Waiting on a comfortable saddle before I take her out..

[SadieKate]

The sloping top tube is not enough to make such a bike into a mixte. A true mixte has DOUBLE top tubes.

(Like most of my bikes...:D )

East HillYes :D. I just didn't want to get into all the details and design issues and confusion. Xeney's current single speed project is a good example.

[pooks]

Now that I know a step-through isn't automatically a WSD I'm not sure about mine.

When I went to the LBS for a fitting last week ($20) the plum bob showed that my foot wasn't quite where it should be -- close but not quite, and they couldn't get it adjusted any closer. When I put my elbow at the end of the seat and stretched my fingers out to the (what is it, stem post?) my hand was a knuckle and a half too long, and again, they adjusted everything as best they could but ultimately said the bike is too small.

I know I just need to get into a bike shop and start trying them out.

Are the handlebars with twist gears (which is what I have) a real weenie kind of thing? Do I really need to learn how to shift gears, but how do I test ride bikes when I don't even know how to shift gears?

This learning curve is going to be long.

(Let's don't even discuss clipless.)

[mimitabby]

Well, Pooks, I left you alone (well, alone with friends) for a few days and you've already focussed in on some interesting looking bikes. A yellow bianchi!
(my bianchi is bright yellow and dark navy blue)

get thee to some bike shops and have fun!

[pooks]

Somebody who doesn't have a celeste bianchi!

Of course I'm not at all sure I will like riding with my shoulders so low, so it's just window shopping. But it's fun.

[Trekhawk]

Do I really need to learn how to shift gears, but how do I test ride bikes when I don't even know how to shift gears?

This learning curve is going to be long.

(Let's don't even discuss clipless.)

LOL - that sounds like me. I had not been on a bike for around 20 odd years and didn't have a clue. The shop gave me a quick run through and off I went. No points would have been given for pretty shifting but hey I didnt crash or break anything. Hee hee and because I didnt know any better I went clipless straight away. Lets just say Im glad not too many people I know saw me in those first few months. Picture this, rider with no idea (that would be me) going up hill changes to harder gear instead of easier, bike stops suddenly, rider forgets to clip out..... TIMBER. Anyway I survived and Im glad now that I just jumped in clipless feet and all.:D

[pooks]

At least I've gotten used to handbrakes. I had a couple of crashes before I managed those tricky beasts.

[Kano]

Pooks -- a couple of things from my recent bike-buying excursion --

first, the shifters are actually easier than the twisty ones on my old bike, though I've got no numbers on my bike to know exactly where I'm at, so I've got to ride by feel. Probably a good thing anyway, eh? And, my bike guy showed me how to work them before I took off on my ride -- just ask if the guy you're working with doesn't offer the info!

and while I'm talking about the shifters, I saw two kinds. They both worked by pushing the brake levers in toward center, but one had a little lever that you had to press with your thumb to go the other direction and the other had two levers, next to each other -- both push in toward center. I didn't even bother with the ones that used the thumb thing. It looked inefficient, like you had to have your hands in just the right place to use them. The others, with the two levers next to each other, small one inside goes to smaller gears, large one to bigger gears. No more thinking than that.

I suppose that sounds goofy to those who speak bike, as you put it one day, but for those of us who don't, it makes PERFECT sense! little lever, little gear. big lever, big gear. can't get any easier, right? The only other thing to remember is "closer to the bike, easier to pedal" and then if it didn't get easier, I use the other lever! (oh yikes is that wicked when I get the front one wrong!)

There will be ladies here who can tell you more about bike geometry than I can, Pooks, but you probably want "relaxed" so you can be a little more upright. I've been told that the Specialized Sequoia is a good choice, and I am finding that I'm really comfortable on my Roubaix(also Specialized). (neither is WSD) There's also the Sirrus, which has a flat bar like mountain bikes.

I'm finding that I really like having the curvy handlebars, cuz I can put myself anywhere on them. Oh -- there's these funky extra brake levers you can get. They were on the bike I had when I was a teenager -- they go across the flat top part. I wanted 'em, until my bike dude

(who had nasty road rash a few days later, but happily showed me how to work my new presta valves, be sure to ask your bike guy about that when you get your bike! He also helped me pick out new gloves)

oops back to my brake levers -- he said riders with those seem to be more likely to do the endos than the other way. I decided I don't want to be doing any of those endos, and I'd try without, but if I just couldn't live with that, then I'd add them later. I'm good -- happy with the decision! (plus I saved a few dollars that I can use for something else!)

And more about the brakes -- I don't know if it's the different way I'm reaching for them, or what, but I like the way these work better than on my other bike (similar to yours) I felt REALLY uncomfortable with the front brake on the comfort bike, but I can use it any time on this new bike! It's also important to note -- I could touch the ground a little more easily on my other bike, and have to be SURE to hop off the seat when I'm coming to a stop now, Pooks -- I remember you having some trouble when stopping as you started out last spring! (I know, don't remind you! just thought I'd try to help you avoid that again!)

And they'll put block pedals on for you -- you don't have to worry about clipless yet! I went to bike specific shoes before I went clipless -- no cleats until I got the pedals, but my feet were happier in the stiff soles, strange as that may sound!

Karen in Boise, whose bike wants to come in the house and hang out here by the computer if we can't go riding!

[pooks]

Karen, this is all great feedback. Thanks!

And you've taken some of the "yikes!" out of it for me!

[mimitabby]

great post, Karen.
I did the same sequence you did. new bike, then stiff bike shoes, THEN FINALLY going clipless.

I wonder what it would be like to climb up Table Rock on a bike, Karen? I walked up it once, a long long time ago.

[Kano]

And we momentarily digress from Pooks' new bike search....

I haven't been up that one yet, but we did ride the road next to Table Rock road. It'll be a wicked ride, but I think we just might try it this summer -- now up to Bogus Basin, that's not one I'm eager to try!

And back to Pooks' search -- You're welcome, Pooks! I hope you find it very helpful when you get to the stores! The hardest thing for me to do when I went shopping was to look for features, rather than pretty paint. I got lucky when I found features AND pretty paint!

Karen in Boise