First ride on my Brooks B17, ouch.

[FreshNewbie]

Hi,

So yesterday I put my brooks B17 on my bike and went for a very short hilly ride. I was holding my handlbars for my dear life as I was sliding of the saddle all the time and it felt that even some glue wouldnt hold me in. Second, not sure if it was the way I dialed in the saddle or just the fact that it's not for me but my girly parts were just in pain. I guess, the fact that I was sliding forward didnt help either but I was in a pain that didn't experience in a long time on a saddle. While I had no pain on my sit bones whatsoever, my front took the punch. Is it going to go away when the saddle won't be slipper? Or you think I am not a good candidate for this saddle? Thanks,

Marina

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Marina,
Be sure to read this thread:
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=14358
I think SuzieQ had much the same issues as you are having, and I believe she is more comfortable now- perhaps you should consult with her as to how she adjusted things on her new B17.

[FreshNewbie]

Thank you Lisa, I played with the saddle yesterday. Sort of moved it a little forward and tried to make the nose part level. Couldn't try to ride it outside since it was freezing cold in NY this weekend. Looks like I need to lower the saddle a little bit too, since I notices that I was rocking from side to side when pedalling, that could also contribute to my problem. I feel like it's worth for me to leave it on the bike at least till it stops being so slippery. Maybe if I wasn't sliding forward so much and stay in one sweet spot it would be a good saddle. I was surprised because even though it's so hard it didnt bother my sit bones at all. Could it be because it's a perfect width and other saddles hurt because I was sitting on the edges ?

[mimitabby]

have you put proofhide on your Brooks? I used to feel like I was going to slip off mine too, early on. The proofhide will make the leather surface "sticky"
so it might help. Suddenly, you're going to feel quite good up there.
If you've ever ridden a horse, on an english saddle, it's the same sort of thing.
You feel like you're just perched up there and could go flying off at any time.
but then you "get it" and you don't feel that way any more.
Glad that you are making little adjustments and noticing the difference.
I rode 100 miles this weekend on two different brooks, and I have no saddle pain at all. :rolleyes:

[FreshNewbie]

Well I put it on and buffed it with this cloth that they provide with proofide and it seemed to make it more slippery. Should I proofide it again and just leave it on without buffing it? The back side of the saddle is definately comfortable because it feels like it's supporting everything (and there is enought to be supported there :rolleyes: ). Since I can't ride outside during weekdays, I am going to put the bike on the trainer to minimize slipperness before this weekend ride outside

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Ideally you should Proofhide it quite a few times, buffing it after it dries each time like the instructions say. Yes it will SEEM to make it smoother but it will actually be LESS slippery after being proofh'ed a few times, believe me. During the first few weeks, the more you proofhide the better.

Assuming you have the saddle leveled well at this point...

For me, I felt more comfortable with the saddle BACK in it's rails all the way, becasue it pulled my center of gravity back more and took some weight off my hands. I was able to feel better balanced all over with my saddle back on the rails, not pushed forward. It also brought my weight centered BACK onto my sitbones more (and OFF the saddle nose). Gave me more pedaling power too.

[FreshNewbie]

Thank you so much Mimi and Lisa for helping me through my brooks adjustment period.
Lisa, when I took my brooks for that first ride, my KOP position was off. Looked like the saddle need to be moved forward a bit to bring the knew over the paddle, otherwise it seemed like if I was sitting on the wider part I constantly had to was sliding forward. Right now I placed my saddle level only in the nose part because I read that back part supposed to be flarred up a bit. Not really sure that tipping nose up would relief my front pain. Will proofide again today. Slipperness makes me scared because it makes bike handling just impossible. :(

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Lisa, when I took my brooks for that first ride, my KOP position was off. Looked like the saddle need to be moved forward a bit to bring the knew over the paddle, otherwise it seemed like if I was sitting on the wider part I constantly had to was sliding forward. Right now I placed my saddle level only in the nose part because I read that back part supposed to be flarred up a bit. Not really sure that tipping nose up would relief my front pain. Will proofide again today. Slipperness makes me scared because it makes bike handling just impossible. :(

I go more by how balanced I feel on my bike than KOP position. I've read that KOP position is great to use as a starting point to fit your bike to you, but I don't feel it's the end-all-be-all of bike fit. You need to feel your weight balanced. Contrary to what might seem "logical", setting your saddle back will put your center of gravity back further from the crank axle, and even though technically it might place you a cm or two further from your handlebars, it might take weight OFF your front end and keep you from feeling you are falling forward too much. It did for me. Keep an open mind about trying different and various approaches. You want your weight to be on your sitbones, not up front on your saddle nose area and girly parts.
Brooks B17 rails are pretty short and so the difference between all-forward and all-back is not "too" great. Yes you have it right about leveling the nose and main seat- the back edge does flare up right at the end and shouldn't be part of the leveling thing.
Each time you make an adjustment, try it for at least a couple of rides before making another change.
Yes if your hips are rocking you might want to lower your saddle by 1/4" increments. Every small change makes a big difference in bike fit.

[KnottedYet]

FN - if the nose is tipped down it might make your pelvis roll forward, placing your weight on the soft bits and nose more than their fair share, and making you feel like you are sliding forward.

Even when the saddle is slippery (and it does get better with repeated applications of proofhide) you shouldn't feel like you are sliding or falling forward all the time.

Tip the nose up a bit more (a SMALL amout at a time) so your pelvis and weight roll backward more toward your tailbone than your soft bits.

Did we already have the pelvis-as-a-bowl-of-water discussion?

[mimitabby]

F

Did we already have the pelvis-as-a-bowl-of-water discussion?

NO! please continue!

[FreshNewbie]

Just played with the saddle again, tipped the nost part few degrees up. So now the nose part is slightly up and the back is flared up too. Moved it a little further back, not completely all the way but would say 2/3 of rails are in the back and 1/3 is in the front (not sure if that explains it well :rolleyes: )
I really want this saddle to work for me, not giving up yet.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Just played with the saddle again, tipped the nost part few degrees up. So now the nose part is slightly up and the back is flared up too. Moved it a little further back, not completely all the way but would say 2/3 of rails are in the back and 1/3 is in the front (not sure if that explains it well :rolleyes: )
I really want this saddle to work for me, not giving up yet.

Sounds like enough change for the moment- now ride it a few times over a few days. Don't judge too quickly, because your body will adapt to each change over a few days. Getting a saddle just right takes a bit of time when you are new to it.
As Knot suggested, try to keep your pelvis tipped so that your weight falls more back on your sitbones. Tuck your stomach in, relax your shoulders down, elbows down and not locked straight. Try to balance in a relaxed way on your bike, and balance your weight between your feet, your seat and your hands. Keep flexible and relaxed- think of how relaxed you are when you are curled up on your side in bed.
I assume you are wearing a decent chamois. Also might try putting some chamois butter or just a generous application of plain hand cream on your sensitive areas before you ride, to keep them from getting pressed into one position only. They will want to "adjust" during a long ride too! ;)

[FreshNewbie]

Lisa,
I am wearing Sugoi Lucky shorts on my short rides, anything above 50 miles I wear my 2005 Sugoi RS short. I always put either body glide on or chamois butter

[FreshNewbie]

So far I only had two rides on my brooks b17 which I sent back to exchange for a shorter B17S. The reason- when standing up on hills the saddle nose whould hit my thighs and snap on my shorts. Initially I thought this saddle is not for me and decided to send it back but then something was telling me that I didn't give it a fair try so I exchanged it for shorter model.
On my first ride I adjusted the saddle level in the nose part and got rubbed raw in the front area. This made showering very painful and unpleasant for couple of days. On my second ride I tilted nose up a bit and that seemed to be a bit better but I managed to get rubbed raw again although not as bad as first time. The thing that bugs me that this saddle doesn't hurt my sit bones and I practically don't even feel them. There is not much pressure on my front rather that chaffing problem. I tried the neutral pelvic position that you Knot suggested but that didn't seem to help me stay in one place. Is this saddle really not for me? and I should stick to cut outs since they never game me that chaffing problem? Or am I doing something wrong ?
My handlebars about 1inch below my saddle and this is the best positiong for me. I ride in the drops in the wind mostly or downhill. I been through a dozen saddles and none of them managed to solve all my problems:
Avocet ( came with my old steel bike)
Serfas women's with cut out saddle
Selle SMP strike (low end women's version)
Selle SMP strike (low end men's version)
Jett women's
Selle Italia Max flite gelflow saddle (the most comfortable so far but a little too narrow in the back for me )
Brooks b17 exchanged for B17S (should arrive early next week)
Selle Italia Lady gel flow 2007 (bought in case brooks doesn't workout) to try out.
Hopefully this list will end soon.

[Offthegrid]

FreshNewbie, I just got a Brooks, too. I have had serious saddle sore issues including one that just wouldn't go away. I'd sometimes be bleeding after a ride despite using chamois cream. I've tried Fizik, Terry and the Jett.

For the first time ever, I had NO saddle sore issues with the Brooks. Didn't hurt my sit bones or the area where my legs meet my pelvis at all. Amazing! But it is scrunching my girly bits. I'm wondering if that just takes a bit of getting used to.

[FreshNewbie]

I am really not sure if I will ever get used to such bad chaffing. I think I would be better off if it was pressure pain but it's just some weird phenomena of my shorts meeting the saddle while I ride :(

[stella]

FreshNewbie,

I'm not sure what type of bike you ride or how the set up is...I have two brooks saddles and just thought I would share my experiences.

on my colnago road bike--set up more aggressively (the handlebars are lower) I use the brooks team pro S. the b17 just didn't work for me on that bike--too sore in the soft tissue. with the Team Pro S: no soft tissue soreness at all.

My commuter bike (an old road/touring bike) where I am in a more upright position: the b17 is fine--no soreness.

did you purchase the saddle from Bill at Wallingford?

[FreshNewbie]

Yes I did buy it from WallBike. I only have one bike- my road bike that has handlebars 1 inch below my saddle and I guess that's why I am not comfortable on B17

[mimitabby]

then call Wallbike and tell them what you are going through! they are MOST helpful. and if you're embarrassed, ask to speak to the wife, i forget her name, sorry.

[FreshNewbie]

Just called Wallbike, not sure if they were busy or what but I told Diane ( I guess it's Bill's wife) that initially I ordered b17 and exchanged it for b17s but was wondering if Team pro S would be more appropriate for my road bike as Stella suggested. Diane told me that Team pro S is the same exact saddle only different rails and rivets :( I told her how my bike positioned but it didn't seem like she had time to talk about or suggest something for me. In the end I cancelled my order for B17S Since I don't believe that it will take care of the chaffing problem I have either. I am really upset because I was really hoping that this saga will end with brooks

[stella]

Yes I did buy it from WallBike. I only have one bike- my road bike that has handlebars 1 inch below my saddle and I guess that's why I am not comfortable on B17

talk to Bill or Diane, they were a huge help with me. It is how I ended up with the Team Pro S. I've been very happy with this saddle (and I went through quite a few in the past).

[FreshNewbie]

Stella, I called and spoke with Diane, not sure why but she wasn't really helpful. She told me that Team pro S is the same saddle as B17S only with chrome rails. Maybe I should try the presoftened Team pro S?

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Just called Wallbike, not sure if they were busy or what but I told Diane ( I guess it's Bill's wife) that initially I ordered b17 and exchanged it for b17s but was wondering if Team pro S would be more appropriate for my road bike as Stella suggested. Diane told me that Team pro S is the same exact saddle only different rails and rivets :( I told her how my bike positioned but it didn't seem like she had time to talk about or suggest something for me. In the end I cancelled my order for B17S Since I don't believe that it will take care of the chaffing problem I have either. I am really upset because I was really hoping that this saga will end with brooks

But you've only ridden on the Brooks twice! :( I was very sore for the first 6 or 8 rides on my new Brooks. Now it feels like a dreamy cream puff, like it's not even there.
I feel that our bodies need a little bit of time to adapt to new things- I know mine has. Some things that used to be uncomfortable on my bike no longer are, as my muscles and my position adapt to new postures and angles, etc.
In the Fall I was used to my Brooks and it felt wonderful. Then winter came and I only rode maybe twice a month. Come that first warm week, I rode a lot and found I was sore on my Brooks a little like when it was new. After a few rides all that went away and I was totally comfy again- the saddle hadn't changed...my butt had gotten out of shape! ;)

Sorry the Brooks didn't work out for you. Good luck in your saddle search.
Well,

[FreshNewbie]

Lisa, I wish I was sore!!! I was chaffed in the most sensitive area you can imagine. Lets just say cutting pain when showering :( I am generally very pain tolerant and can take soreness from saddle. Heck I did my century last year on my Jett 143mm. The thing is that I only did 2x 15miles rides and was in so much pain that couldn't imagine doing it for longer rides that I plan on doing this coming weekend. Right now I am sitting and thinking wheather I should order Team Pro S despite Diane telling me its the same saddle as B17 in a presoftened model and give it a try? Or put my head down and go back to my Selle Italia >

[mimitabby]

Since you have already spent all this time and energy on Saddles would you consider a bike fit now?

[stella]

Stella, I called and spoke with Diane, not sure why but she wasn't really helpful. She told me that Team pro S is the same saddle as B17S only with chrome rails. Maybe I should try the presoftened Team pro S?

FreshNewbie: I am sorry that you are having that experience with Diane. I only know that, for me, the team pro S did the trick. The only soreness I had was the usual 'out of shape' soreness.

the pain you are experiencing--I've had that, too. I can't use a cut out anymore.

[FreshNewbie]

Mimi, I had a basic fit down when I got my bike. Although, you might be right and I should invest in a professional bike fit.

[mimitabby]

yes, there's a big diff. getting set up by a bike seller and getting a bike fit by someone trained to do it.
those parts of yours getting sore aren't designed to hold your weight. that's why they're screaming. as i read your posts, i wonder if you have unusual anatomy or if your posture is a bit off... but in either of these cases, i'd go back to bike fit.

good luck

[FreshNewbie]

I should be glad that there is ebay otherwise I would have to decorate my appartment with saddles :rolleyes:

[mimitabby]

lol, i've resold 3 saddles right here on TE myself.

[FreshNewbie]

Hmm, I guess you can say that I have a bit unusual anatomy. My right let is a bit longer than my left. It's not really noticable in everyday stuff I do but I know it's there. I am pretty sure it might contribute to the way I position myself on the bike. I find myself pretty flexible with my yoga and regular stretching classes, probably more flexible than average person. However, not sure if that applies to my bike posture. I notice that on my Selle Italia Max flite gel flow saddle I am able to sit only on my sit bones while contracting my core and I am comfortable. However, this saddle is a bit too narrow in the back and gives me some pains from hitting my thighs since I am trying to sit way back on the edges (widest part). I am honestly thinking that I should try Team pro S (either presoftened or regular model) despite what Diane told me. Whould you give brooks another try if you were me? Let's say if I buy brooks and put it on my bike and get a professional fit with it? Do you think that may workout?

[mimitabby]

If I were you, yes, I'd give Brooks another try, because I've already been down that road and i am a lot less tolerant of pain than you are. (I never let it get that bad. if it hurt, i got off the bike!)

BUT I'm not you. and btw, if your legs are different lengths this might be an issue, Triskelion has that problem too.
(you might send her an IM!)
If Diane said they are basically the same saddle, you'd just be wasting time trying that saddle.


keep trying. it's worth it!

good luck

[FreshNewbie]

On the description that wallbike has on their website for Team Professional saddle it says that it's designed for more agressive riders that preffer spending time in the drops. I assumed that it would be also true for Team Pro S model that's designed for women. Maybe I should try calling them again some other time when they will be more willing to explain the difference.

[mimitabby]

You could call again and say "I heard you were very helpful with saddle issues"
:)

[suzieqtwa]

Hey Fresh newbie,
When I read your post it sounded like I was writing it. I was rubbed raw with my stock WSD pilot saddle to the point where I had a red blood blister. It hurt so bad,and I was in such pain...Well I went to the B17. I just wanted it to work so bad for me...Like you, I can take the sits bones pressure ,but not the soft tissue. I have a high tolerance for pain ,but not cutting pain. Anyway, I've put about 300 miles on the Brooks ,and I'm still dealing with crotch pain on the right side. I also think one leg is longer than the other..that may be my problem. I don't have any chafing ,or cutting,just pain after about 20 miles or so. I can almost deal with it as I really want this one to work. I haven't adjusted it too much. I know the soft tissue pain isn't going to go away,so its a matter of me maybe trying to adjust it again ,or just deal with it. I have it set sorta in the middle closer to the forward position. I also slide forward ,and have it level ,just slighted tilted downward. If I could just keep my butt on the back of the seat ,I think I may be Ok ,but I keep shifting around. I haven't made any indents in the saddle yet because I'm always moving around.
Darcy ,and I are attempting a 62 mile ride tomorrow. I only rode once this week . If I just didn't have crotch pain things would be GREAT. The furthest I've ridden was 46 miles...hope I can make it. ; )))
I will be wearing 2 pairs of shorts tomorrow.
Suzie

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Suzie, try moving the saddle back all the way.

[FreshNewbie]

Hi Suzie, sorry just saw your post!!!
Well I returned my B17 and had a feeling that I made a wrong choice by sending it back. So couple of days after thanks to Stella, Mimi and Lisa I decided that I will give Brooks a second choice, and ordered Team Professional "S". It came this Thursday and I took it for a first ride today for 20 hill training miles. WOW, let me tell you there is a huge difference and in a good way. I adjusted in a level position so that the nose is a bit tilted up, but since this saddle does not have such flared up back it's not significant tilt. I was not sliding as much and it was not anything close to my slidingon on B17. I was able to pick a place on the back part and stay there and even shift around a little bit. I was able to keep my pelvis in neuteral position like Knotted calls it ( bowl with water). By the end of the ride I didn't chaffe ( i made sure to put some bodyglide along with baby cream) and I didn't have any pressure problem with the nose. Overall it was much comfortable than my Selle Italia Max flite Gelflow and it's only my first ride on it.
If you bought your B17 from Wallbike, maybe you should consider getting B17S or Team professional. Maybe like me you just need a little wider nose transition from the back for more support. I think women's version has different surface shape than original models. Also, my left (shorter leg) was not bothering me while climbing, it was going in smooth circles easily. I am going on a club ride tomorrow 40 miles, I will post how it will play out on a longer ride.
Hope this helps you,

Marina aka FN

[mimitabby]

far out! great news, Freshnewbie!!

Brooks strikes again!

[FreshNewbie]

I know Mimi, I almolst cried today on a ride, of course they would be tears of joy, two years of constant saddle sagga will get you crying :o Thanks for helping me with Brooks :p, if it weren't for you, Stella and Lisa I would go back to gel saddle with cut out. Hopefully my Team Pro will get more comfortable with every ride.

[suzieqtwa]

FN
I will be waiting for your report on your 40 mile ride. I'm doing a 62 mile ride tomorrow. ahhhhhhhhhhh :eek: I do know my right leg is a bit longer than my left ,although its not a noticeable thing. My sits bones are about 5 1/2 inches apart ,and I do believe the B17 was a better choice for me ,so if the one you got was shaped like the B17S , may not work for me. Yes, I did get my saddle from wallbilke. I would be so happy if I didnt have crotch soreness.

[FreshNewbie]

Suzie, my sit bones are as wide as yours and that was the reason I essentially got B17. However, B17S and Team pro only 7mm wider than B17 model. But the leather is strethched in a bit different way that helps you distribute your weight on the back versus front. Maybe you do need play wiht adjusting your saddle a bit more, if you shifting around and it's not because of sliding from slippery surface, then it's definately still not in a right position. All my saddles had long nose and I liked it and thought that women's Brooks would be too short for me, but it was fine on turns and I didn't feel much difference.
Anyway, I will report my ride tomorrow.
FN

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Fresh, that is very good news!!

One thing everyone should keep in mind when comparing Brooks B17 "S" and "non-S" models:
"S" models are sometimes called women's model (though some men use them as well). It means the back part where your sitbones sit is about an inch wider to accomodate wider sitbone distance apart. It ALSO means a shorter nose on the saddle. About an inch shorter than non-S B17.
So...
A non-S "regular" B17 has a longer nose (just the thin part) and is an inch narrower in the sitbone back part. Because of the longer overall length, it also has correspondingly longer rails underneath than the S, by about an inch. These longer rails give you more range in your forward/backward saddle position possibilities. Just good to know.

A Brooks B68 comes in S and non-S models as well, but there is a difference. ALL B68's are wider in the rear sitbone area, the S and the non-S as well. They are both wider (210mm) even than the B17S (170mm). The only diff in the B68 S & non-S is the nose length. The B68S has the shortened nose and it's corresponding shortened rails underneath. B68 saddles are good for people with wider pelvis/sitbones, like me! ;) I have ordered one because after 6 months I still find my B17S a bit too narrow for my sitbones.

Suzie, I know you are going to do your long upcoming ride wearing two chamois, but I am going to suggest that you might consider removing one chamois mid ride if you start having lots of pain. I know this sounds illogical, but...I had suggested a double chamois when you were going to ride a huge ride with a brand new Brooks. Now that you've ridden many miles on that saddle, you may want to eliminate the second chamois to give your sore/sensitive area MORE SPACE so there will be less pressure on it. Give it a try- you can always put the second shorts back on if it doesn't work well. Let me know how the ride goes- and don't kill yourself just in order to finish if you are in bad pain.
I know you are a very slender tall girl, and like FreshN, you might do well with a narrower overall Brooks model, especially one with a very narrow mid section and nose area.

[stella]

I know Mimi, I almolst cried today on a ride, of course they would be tears of joy, two years of constant saddle sagga will get you crying :o Thanks for helping me with Brooks :p, if it weren't for you, Stella and Lisa I would go back to gel saddle with cut out. Hopefully my Team Pro will get more comfortable with every ride.

FN: I am so glad it worked out for you!

If your experience mirrors mine...the saddle WILL get more comfortable over time.

stella

[FreshNewbie]

Thank you Lisa and Stella:D
Suzie, today I went for that ride which was supposed to be 40 flat miles with B+, but my BF was with me and he convinced me that I can easily do A-. So that A- minus turned out to be 48 miles, hilly and very challenging ( too early in the season for me). Anyway, I made a huge mistake today. I wore different shorts than yesterday, today I wore my Sugoi Lucky shorts with regular tights on top (it was in 50's in the morning). Yesterday I had my SSS Sheebeest shorts on. Anyway, I was sliding today pretty bad in these tights, so I took them off later but that's already after the damage was done. I think for me it was a pattern, when I had my B17 for my two rides I was also wearing sugoi shorts with Tights and that made me constantly slide and chaffe. So maybe that was the reason that saddle went back to wall bike:eek: . However, by the end of the ride I was not sliding as much and was able to stay in the back. Overall, I am pretty positive if I wear right shorts with this saddle it will be good to me. I know your problem is more of a pressure problem but I wonder if you are also not able to stay in one place due to sliding around. Try to experiment with shorts if you have different brands that have different short material maybe. SSS shorts have more of a thicker material which makes them not as slippery with Brooks. Anyway, hope this helps or at least gives you some ideas.
Please let me know how your ride went, I want to hear. Good luck,
Marina

[mimitabby]

years ago I used to fantasize about velcro on my pants to keep me from sliding!
now that i am in the right place, i don't slip and slide at all... at least i don't notice it.

[CyclaSutra]

OK, but does this sound like the eighth circle of hell to anybody else? I am so sorry that your bits are so bothersome with the Brookses... it makes me never want to try one, even though they look so cool.

On my road bike, I've had a Terry Butterfly saddle for the past 2 years, and except for 80+ mile rides, it's great! At more than 80, the foam seems to squish down and be really uncomfortable on the sit bones, but I only do a half-dozen or so centuries a year, so I've dealt with "almost there!" standing up on the pedals, etc.

I had a WSD gelly cutout thing on my old mountain bike, and at six years old, it's getting really mushy but is still comfy.

In the interest of trying to get "the perfect" saddle, I did try a couple of Koobis that I couldn't figure out how to make comfortable at all.

It seems like you've just had really bad luck thus far! I hope your bits get better soon, and try some chamois cream and just ONE pair of shorts, maybe.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Sutra,
You should keep in mind that this thread is addressing a couple of women who are having trouble getting their Brooks saddles to be comfy for them. It's not a thread about how great Brooks saddles feel. If you started a thread on "How do you like your Brooks saddle?" you'd likely get a lot of happy campers replying. There are quite a few Brooks saddle fans on TE.

[CyclaSutra]

Lisa, I get it.

It just seems sort of like the all-leather pair of hiking boots I got when I first moved out West. Cool, retro, slick, authentic-looking. Awesome, right? But they never fit right and I was always sitting down to bandage my blisters after the first mile or two of a hike. Three years later, I got some synthetic fabric boots that fit, and rarely a blister since.

Everybody's feet are different, just as everybody's body is different. I was just trying to make the point that maybe if a saddle's not working after weeks of fiddling, it's time to try a totally different approach.

Like I said, they look really cool and I wouldn't totally discount them. I'd love to try a Brooks, but probably only if I found one on super-sale!

Good luck, girls!

[jobob]

I'd love to try a Brooks, but probably only if I found one on super-sale! Except if you bought one full-price at Wallingford, you would have 6 months to try it out, and if you didn't like it, you could return it.

Where on earth can you find a more lenient, more risk-free return policy than that?

It never ceases to amaze me how more people don't take advantage of that.

[suzieqtwa]

Hey Marina,
I tried to PM you ,but I couldn't. Anyway ,I did ride 62 miles , My crotch hurt after about 20 miles or so ,but still no chafing ,or cutting.
I adjusted it again last night ,and turned it slightly to the left as the right side is the only side that hurts. I really like the Brooks ,and I'm going to try everything to make it work for me. I do slide a bit ,but that doesn't seem to be the problem. I'm going to give it more time ,but I may be interested in buying one of your saddles in the future.
When Darcy and I were at the rest stops we were looking at the 100s of bike ,and I didn't see one Brooks? : ) Let me know how your doing.
Suzie

[FreshNewbie]

Hey Suzie, would you consider ordering B17 S model just for the experiment? You can always send it back if you order it from wallbike, at least that way you will know if your problems comes from the shape of regular B17. In my opinion it's worth a try.
The only reason I had some chaffing this weekend is my choice of shorts, also I noticed when I came home that I didn't tighten the bolt well and the saddle slid all the way back. Think about it, I know it's PITA to order and send it back but maybe you will solve your problem?:rolleyes:

[Eden]

Just wanted to say be careful about adjusting the position of your saddle (fore and aft) to solve chafing problems, as this is very important to the fit of your bike as far as knee to crank placement goes. If you start messing with it to make your crotch feel better you may have adverse effects on other parts of your fit and body!

[caribe81]

Hello Ladies, :D
I just wanted to share my experience with my brooks saddle B17s. I got it a month ago and have ridden 100 miles on it. At first I have to admit it felt like I was sliding a bit but that was only once. I keep proof hiding it and it got less slippery. For me it has fit like a glove. I have not experience chafing, soreness, or rubbing of any kind. My longest ride has been 50 miles and that was only the third time on the saddle and it felt right . After riding 20 miles this weekend I did feel the need to move the saddle back a bit and it feels even better. I am 5’6 and weigh 120 pounds.

[caribe81]

Hope this helps

[FreshNewbie]

Caribe, thanks for posting pictures. Brooks saddles look neat on bikes. I never used to like them before, but recently I changed my mind about them, don't know why.
Do you mind sharing what kind of shorts do you wear on your rides? I am still trying to figure out a perfect short/brooks match, so far sss shebeest seem to work well.

[caribe81]

Hi as far as shorts. I like this Nike one I have, but I don’t know what type it is, it was like $35 and has the best chamois so far. I also have the Pearl Izumi Sugar Short it pretty good and the 'shebeest-Sprint Tri Shortie' that I just got and have only ridden on it once. It seems ok for short rides only.:)

[suzieqtwa]

I've put almost 450 miles on the B17 ,and I think this time I finally got it to work. I commuted all week to work (13 miles RT) ,and Saturday ,and Sunday I road 40 miles each day ,and NO CROTCH PAIN>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> woooooooooooo whoooooooo. I adjusted it to be totally level. I kept waiting for the pain this weekend ,but it never happened. I cant say I found that "sweet spot ,as there are no indentations on the saddle ,but I don't slide around at all. The shorts I wear are Pearl Izumi "short attack". They seemed to have the biggest padding. I hope it continues to get better.
Newbie ,how is your saddle saga going?

[FreshNewbie]

Awsome to hear it Suzie!!!
Well I sold my old Selle Italia and bought Specialized Arione saddle because brooks still gives me chaffing problem in my soft tissue. I love the brooks on my butt, it doesnt hurt anywhere at all. But about at 20 miles mark I start to get burning feeling in the front and then when I get in the shower OHH it's pretty bad :mad: :( Not sure why I don't even slide around that much anymore, it's not too high so I don't rock. This is how lack of cut out effecting me. Now I am not sending it back just yet, I am planning to keep it and maybe put it later on. Yesterday I went to ride with my Specialized and that I really like that saddle, but then I only got to do 16 miles on it so it's not for sure yet. We will see what will happen, this saga as you called it tires me.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

One other thing to check out- I have found that sometimes when I wear too thick a chamois layer, the extra padding there in front pushes up against my soft parts after a lot of miles and starts making them numb. It's a tricky balance trying to find just the right amount of chamois. Something to watch for.

[FreshNewbie]

Yes I thought that too not sure if that's the problem though. I have sugoi Lucky shorts and Shebeest SSS shorts that I wear with my brooks and the problem still accured :( I am keeping the saddle, it's just that I need to let my parts heal, don't think thing like that will be something I have to get used to.

[Eden]

Some of us just really need a saddle with a cutout. Even if I get a saddle that supports my sitbones perfectly, I still get uncomfortable pressure on the soft tissues, so a saddle with a groove or cutout is the only option for me (I now have a very firm saddle with a cutout and I never have any numbness or pain anymore). If you really love the look of your Brooks, but are finding it to be uncomfortable - didn't Mimi mention a saddle her husband has that has a similar look, but is available with a cutout.

[KnottedYet]

I think it was Selle An-Atomica.

The guy modelled a Brooks and modified it so it had a cut-out, and makes them in 3 different sizes (you'll still want to know your sit-bone width) and a gazillion different leathers.

I think TE sells it.

Yeah, here it is on TE http://www.teamestrogen.com/brands.asp?brandID=121
He's even got the leather handlebar tape to match his saddles like Brooks! Cool!

[FreshNewbie]

I guess I would be one of these people who really need a cut out. The Avator Specialized was very comfortable I got it in 155 width and my sitbones were supported and I didnt get any chaffing of numb spots as with my previous Jett. By the way if you are interested these saddles are on sales on Specialized.com for a bargain price of $40 (couldn't go wrong). Now I am thinking if I really get to like that saddle maybe I should have bought 2 of them since they already changed 2007 model.:eek:

[Kitsune06]

I'm wondering if it's my saddle placement or what now... in the more upright mtb position, the Brooks was great. Even on the hoods, the Brooks is great. But once I get down in the drops, it rubs my bits (further back, labiawise, not up-front hoodwise).... well maybe not 'rubbing' so much as just pressure, which I know would turn into rubbing if I went more than a few miles. So... anyone have any experience that way, as far as tipping the saddle up/down? I started with it a ways back, but am slowly scooching it forward. Ahh the adventures inherent in making a new bike fit perfectly...

[FreshNewbie]

Kitsune, how did you position your saddle ?
When I first got my Team pro S saddle I put it completely level, meaning that the nose was pointing up. That wasn't bad but gave me some pressure issues. Then I started leveling the nose part and the last time I had it almost completely level. I wasn't sliding on the saddle anymore since the slipperness became less of a problem. I am really not sure why I was getting chaffing in the front since the nose part wasn't really putting any pressure on me. So far I took my Team Pro S off the bike and I put Specialized Avator which didn't give me any problem on my 17 miles.
Maybe try to level the nose a bit more. Also, are you riding with neuteral pelvis? Did you try chamois butter or body glide?

[RoseC]

I'm wondering if it's my saddle placement or what now... in the more upright mtb position, the Brooks was great.

I'm running into this, too. :( I bought a beautiful honey B17 a few months ago when Nashbar had a big percentage style sale. I didn't use it much (maybe a total of fifty miles), but I did do a few rides with it on the mountain bike and didn't experience much if any pain.

But on the beautiful new Volpe, I've gone on three rides and it seems like it *pinches* no matter how I set it. Ow ow ow ow! I think a part of that is that I used the eeevil stock saddle long enough to make those parts sore to begin with, but even so, I'm wondering if this means I'm one of those people who has to have a cut out if using a road bike. I can see the part of the saddle that comes in contact with my sit bones softening and forming a bit, but not the part that contacts softer bits.

[mimitabby]

I think it was Selle An-Atomica.

The guy modelled a Brooks and modified it so it had a cut-out, and makes them in 3 different sizes (you'll still want to know your sit-bone width) and a gazillion different leathers.

I think TE sells it.

Yeah, here it is on TE http://www.teamestrogen.com/brands.asp?brandID=121
He's even got the leather handlebar tape to match his saddles like Brooks! Cool!
Knot, i think there's only 1 size, two strengths.
I asked him in person about sizes. He said "mostly everyone liked this size, so that's what i make" (I thought, great, where does that leave the 10% who don't fit that size?!!)

[Kitsune06]

It's got the 'nose' level, so the back is at a slight angle. Bodyglide and chamois butter (even just wearing a chamois) helps a LOT, but for the next month I'm only doing a 2 mi commute, so it feels like more work than it's worth. ...then again, if it's going to keep being in the 70s both ways, maybe I'll just wear the shorts!

I wonder a little if my handlebars are a bit low, causing me to lean forward/down more? I try to ride pelvis-neutral as much as I can, using my core to roll it back a bit. Gotta warm up slow; I tell ya, these new road positions are really, really noticeable on the outsides of my thighs/butt! woah! Think nosing the seat down slightly would make a positive difference?

[mimitabby]

Kit sounds to me like you need to do more core exercises.
I dont think many brooks users have the nose down, because that just makes you slip.

[FreshNewbie]

No I don't think it would really help, quiet the opposite; since you already have it level it would be pointing down and putting too much weight on your arms (you don't want that). If you look at brooks saddles and other modern saddles, you will notices that brooks' nose is rounded whereas modern saddles mostly have flatter nose form. Maybe that's what bothers you on the bike. Do you find yourself to be able to always stay in one place on brooks or you sort of ride, ride ,ride and than scoop back in the original position? that's what happened to me, I would be riding happily then sort of slide forward and have to push back, obviously that contributed to chaffing I think.
If you have no chaffing problems like me, I don't think that enormous amounts of butter will help you to eliminate the pressure. I think it's just a matter of figuring out how to position that saddle on your bike. Damn I wish it was much easier, this whole saddle soap opera

[mimitabby]

Damn I wish it was much easier, this whole saddle soap opera

:D :D :D well said!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Kit sounds to me like you need to do more core exercises.
I dont think many brooks users have the nose down, because that just makes you slip.

I would agree. It took me months for my core strength to catch up and when it did I found I was riding with less weight on my saddle and hands, and more weight on my feet and legs. When you ride, try to pull your tummy and pelvis inand try to put more of your weight on your feet. Think of it in terms of "walking/running" on your bike while you ride instead of "sitting" on your bike.

[Kitsune06]

*groaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnn* :rolleyes:

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

If your road bike has an exaggerated racing position (butt way up, handlebars low) then you *might* need a different saddle than a Brooks on it. Riding with hands substancially lower than your seat can put more pressure on the girly parts up front. I don't know how your road bike is that way, do you have any other saddles you have liked in the past besides your Brooks? Can you try them on your new bike?

Lots of people do their daily commute on hybrids, city/touring, or mtn bikes because the racing position is not the most comfortable for basic transportation, especially in traffic. Just a thought.

[Kitsune06]

Now... the Selle An-Atomica- how is that cut-out for the girly bits when one's on a racing-positioned bike?

[mimitabby]

beats me, Kit. My husband's saddle slit sort of closed up after a while!
(he still likes it though)

[Kitsune06]

I've got a Specialized saddle from my mtb with a cut-out in it. It was uncomfortable on the mtb because it sorta chafed along the edges, but I wonder if it'd be more comfortable in that racing position?

[Trekhawk]

Now... the Selle An-Atomica- how is that cut-out for the girly bits when one's on a racing-positioned bike?

I got one of these to take home to Aust. I hope to start doing more of my errands and stuff by bike (hee hee still dont have the bike but I have lots of bits to go on it). Anyway I couldn't resist giving it a whirl on my road bike. I was very impressed. It was super comfy on the girly bits right from the start. Left it on my bike for a few weeks and spent plenty of time in the drops with no problems. I did have a few issues with rubbing on the back of my leg but after talking to Tom Milton and getting lots of good info re position I think I have that fixed. Anyway for the few weeks I used it I was pretty impressed and I can't say enough good things about the great customer service.:)

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I've got a Specialized saddle from my mtb with a cut-out in it. It was uncomfortable on the mtb because it sorta chafed along the edges, but I wonder if it'd be more comfortable in that racing position?

Try it out!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

beats me, Kit. My husband's saddle slit sort of closed up after a while!
(he still likes it though)

Imagine some non-biking stranger reading this.

[Kitsune06]

beats me, Kit. My husband's saddle slit sort of closed up after a while!
(he still likes it though)


Imagine some non-biking stranger reading this.

I saw that! I was looking at the new, virgin ones online, then remembered what your DH's looked like (b'c I got a good look that one time) and I thought "Huh!" but thanks for confirming that... I was thinking it depended on the mood of the saddle! :eek: :p

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

... I was thinking it depended on the mood of the saddle! :eek: :p

Or the mood of the rider! :eek: :eek:

[Kitsune06]

*giggles*

*writes a post*
*deletes it*
*writes a post*
*deletes it*
*writes a post*
*deletes it*
...
*shakes head*

[divingbiker]

I think it was Selle An-Atomica.

The guy modelled a Brooks and modified it so it had a cut-out, and makes them in 3 different sizes (you'll still want to know your sit-bone width) and a gazillion different leathers.

I tried a Selle An-Atomica on my Glorius, and it didn't work at all. It is very narrow, or maybe it just feels narrow because the edges slope down. It felt narrower than the Brooks B17. It's also very long in the nose. My shorts kept catching on it since I'm on and off my bike a lot at stop signs and lights, and it got very annoying.

I think for anyone who likes a Brooks B67/68 etc, the Selle An-Atomica would be too narrow. It's a completely different feeling having the sit bones supported on the wider saddle. I did like the cutout, though.

[mimitabby]

yes, it is too narrow for me too, I do believe.

[KnottedYet]

Even back when they had 3 sizes, even the widest was still too narrow for me.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Even back when they had 3 sizes, even the widest was still too narrow for me.

Ditto here. Now that Brooks has the even WIDER B68, I finally have a saddle wide enough for my sitbones! :D

[KnottedYet]

Ditto here. Now that Brooks has the even WIDER B68, I finally have a saddle wide enough for my sitbones! :D

I thought the B68 was the same dimensions as the B67/B66? Same saddle, no springs?

[mimitabby]

yeah, that's what i thought too.

[KnottedYet]

Wallingford has dimensions for all listed at 210x260.

Luuuuuuuurve the Brooks B60 series...
(now,for my next Brooks do I stick with B67 which works peachy, or get a B68 cuz it's sexier?)

[mimitabby]

I would love to get the newer model for my new bike, but I have a nice antique brown B67 just sitting here waiting for me. And it matches the handlebar grips I am getting put on the bike.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I thought the B68 was the same dimensions as the B67/B66? Same saddle, no springs?

Correct. I meant wider than my old B17S.

[suzieqtwa]

Well, Ellen (oxyback) ,and I rode 71 miles today ,and I've been commuting to work for 3 weeks now , no crotch pain. Of course my butt was a bit uncomfortable today ,but that's after being on the saddle for 6 hours...anyone's butt would be sore. I guess I found my saddle!!!!!:D

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Well, Ellen (oxyback) ,and I rode 71 miles today ,and I've been commuting to work for 3 weeks now , no crotch pain. Of course my butt was a bit uncomfortable today ,but that's after being on the saddle for 6 hours...anyone's butt would be sore. I guess I found my saddle!!!!!:D

Excellent!!!! :p :p :p

Wow, 71 miles??? Way to go Suze!!!!!!

I agree- I think anyone's butt would be sore after 6 hours riding. ;) Mine was a bit sore after 5 1/2 hours ride recently- but my legs were more sore than my butt- I guess that's a good sign. ;)