Fear of Going Down Rutted Hills with Rocks

[sgold]

I am experiencing a strong fear of going down steep rutted hills with rocks and riding narrow mountain single track. Can anyone give me a suggestion to overcome it? :(

[caligurl]

hello!

i don't have an answer to you.. but i can add that i'm scared to death to go down hills fast! my hands were killing me getting back down the hill we climbed yesterday... maybe it will come with time?

[yogabear]

I think the important thing is to go with what you are comfortable with, even if it means at first you walk your bike through sections you are unsure about. I also find that not looking at where I don't want to go on my bike helps. I think it helps too to put your weight back and not use too much front brake in the rutted downhills ("feather" the brakes). The narrow singletrack takes time to get used to, but trust that it will get better with time. You have to find that balance of going fast enough (to get through the terrain) and not too fast for your comfort, which takes time like anything else.

I also like to use visualization techniques (there's some books on the subject that explain it better than me...one is Sports Psychology for Cyclists).

I have never been to a mtn. bike camp for women, but I have been to a road biking camp which did wonders for my bike skills on the road. I am sure this would be fun for you to experience something like that with mtn. biking. It helps to ride with other women...you see them doing things and you're like, "hey, I can do that!" So, maybe you could find a group of like-minded gals to ride with in the sections you are worried about. I am sure you will be just fine!

You go girl! :)

Sincerely,

Lisa

[pedalfaster]

See this thread. (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1356)

Only... off-road your pedals should be level ("9 and 3"). Tap your brakes right before the descent to scrub speed. Get your butt waaaay off the back of that saddle (practice on level ground first if needed---you should feel the whiiiir of the knobbies on your backside).

Enjoy the ride. :)

[Irulan]

for descending, check your body position.. make sure you are out of the saddle, back a bit, feet level, hands light on the brakes. You have to ride light on loose stuff. Ruts require choosing a good line... see the thread on manuvering in new riders. You have to be loose and trust your bike to not lose it. I know this doesnt' make sense, but take little bits of it and see.

my tips page has some ideas too. let us know where you are and we can maybe point you to some skills clinics.

irulan

[JanT]

Fear is sometimes a good thing! Follow the tips others have given, feather your brakes to keep your speed down without skidding, and remember to breathe. There is no shame in walking some of these beasts, and I have no problem walking some of the steep, rocky but loose, portions of the trail. Better to walk it then risk injury. If you decide to try it, remember the old adage: Do, or do not. Once you're committed, go for it. Trying to bail on such a hill can be more dangerous than riding it out.

[Irulan]

I woke up in the middle of the night and remembered this: you gotta keep the wheels rolling, especialy the front! I think riding on unconsolidated stuff is fairly difficlut...

Irulan

[bounceswoosh]

Definitely keep the wheels rolling! If you brake while your wheel is in the air, you *will* endo when the wheel lands.

One thing I try to do is to look for the grippy spots. On one rocky ride I like, there are spots where there's a flat rock surface. I always scrub speed on those spots, then stay off the brakes on the loose rock.

[sgold]

Thanks for the suggestions. Previous to going to Mammoth to ride, I got k-oed by our dog when I walked him. He took off running when he heard his name and I did not let go of the leash. I fell face first on the pavement and looked like my husband beat me. Fortunately, no concussions or serious injuries- two injured front teeth, though. Falling increased my fear.

I was determined to face my fear. We went to Mammoth and mountainbiked four days: single track mountain trails, gravel fire roads, and finely pumiced trails. I fell on my left knee and got some scrapes. I walked my bike a lot.

Still wanting to challenge my fear, when I came home, I took a mountain trail with rutted downhills with loose and smooth rocks, and uphills with loose rocks. I walked my bike a lot and felt embarrassed. I am going to take time to recover and get dental work done now.

:o

[bounceswoosh]

Nothing wrong with walking when you need to. Fear is a useful tool in reasonable doses.

Sorry about the injuries =/ I have lots of dog-related scars, but none as severe as those sound. I hope you feel better soon.

[Irulan]

you should NEVER EVER feel embarassed about walking... if the crowd you are riding with puts that on you, find a new crowd, and if you are putting it on yourself you need to get over it right now!!!! There is no shame in walking, ever!! It's crazy to push yourself too much just because of embarassment.. .that's when you can get really hurt!

The beauty of walking is that maybe this month you walk a section, next month you only walk half of it, later this summer you dab it and next year you run it clean!!!

If lack of confindence and not knowing "how" is part of your walking something, ask somehow who can do it for some tips, or take a skills clinic ( I know, broken record....) Sometimes it's just a matter of a little tweak in your techinique, and then sometimes it's a matter of self preservation :D

When I was up in Canada at camp, even tho I was in the second from the top skills group, there was some stuff on our practice ride that I took one look at and just KNEW that I wasn't going to do. There was no shame or embarassment. I just said to the coaches... "you know, this is just way out of my comfort zone right now, I will watch you guys and take pictures". EVerything was fine, and some of the younger gals went for it. My buddy, who is older than me was actually relieved when I said what I did, it took the pressure of her that she was letting her BF put on her about doing certain things. Sometimes deciding NOT to ride something is freeing is a way, because it take the pressure off.

my I do go on sometimes, don't I :eek:

Irulan

[kimba]

I so share your fear! This is the biggest thing I had to get over...
I'm better now, but there are times that I just freak- I get that flash of fear pain in my stomach- Oh God, I so hate that.

But- here's what I learned...from experience.

I was on my women's mtn biking skills clinic- the morning was great- we practised lots of basic skills- the repetion was really helpful.
Skills like, turning, running along side your bike and mounting, then dismounting and running again, proper braking- both brakes, not just the rear one. That kind of stuff.

Then later- the obstacle courses- riding through a pit of big rocks- freaked me out it did- I had to look at it and visualize a long time before I had the courage to do it-
But I set off, pedaled as fast as I could- and the bike took me through.
cool.
Then more obstacles, logs,2 logs, big logs, skids, bunny hops, manuals.etc etc.
I was doin' good!!
The we had to ride about a third of the way down the ski hill.
Ack!
I was worried that I was gonna endo which trying to get my ample butt into the saddle.
They taught me to ride across the hill until I got my seat- then gradually turn down the hill- make sure my butt was back on the saddle - even off the saddle ( behind it) if the descent was really steep...Those big rocks were frightening, but I soon realized that I could make it down the hill at a good clip, feathering the brake when the fear got too much for me, and I would make it okay.

But then- after lunch- and of course I had made it through all the skills, pretty well aceing everything, watching others fly off their bikes here and there, falling over- but not me.
and then- I got off my bike, parked it, walked over fieldstones on my way to lunch, hit an uneven one with my too loosely tied cycling shoes- and fell, opening up my elbow, bleeding profusely and having to get first aid- oh yes, I felt kind of foolish!

But anyway- the afternoon was all taken up with a ride through the woods.
Well, as it happened, 2 of us took the wrong fork and ended up in unfamiliar territory- the other rider was lost for 3 hours...but got back okay, suffering a flat and hiking out of the woods, and hitchhiking back to the ski lodge. I, just waited, knowing eventually somebody would come and find me - and sure enough, I was only waiting for 15 minutes.
BUt- Since I was now worried about my missing team mate- I was more concerned about finding her, and getting back, than worrying about the babyheads and the rocky descents.
I marvelled how I just pushed through the rocks- before I tried to ride around each one- now I just knew that the bike would go over them. So- I actually kept my momentum up and cruised through stuff that would have terrified me some 4 hours before...I was so afraid for somebody else- I wasn't afraid for myself. It was weird - but it worked.
It was like I just went "*#@! it" - and went down the mountain.
And the thing is- that was a GIANT step for me, having had that terrible endo from before, and being worried that it would happen again.

Now- I am riding a reclaimed land fill near my house - there is a BIG hill- BIG- but it is grassy and I feel if I wipe out it won't hurt as much. Soon I will be comfortable with the steepness, and I already know I can ride over the rocks...

But not for a while..

I cracked ribs while riding in a bog...
but that's another story.

Anyway- the point to this rather lengthy missive is-

momemtum will carry you over most rocks.
I saw so many women fall during my skills clinic because they stopped pedalling and their momentum just died off halfway through the rocks.
Keeping your weight back, balancing on neutral pedals will take care of your descents.
Keep goin' - it'll get better.

And listen to Irulan.

Kimba

[Irulan]

And listen to Irulan. blush blush blush

you just keep trying ya know? on the afternoon rides after my skills day at camp, I must have crashed a million times... those steep switchbacks just freak me out, I don't even try, just tip the bike over. Some day... in the mean time, just keep working at it.

My friend took about 1000 pictures of me crashing, I'll post some when I get home, I'm on vacation in Idaho right now.

irulan

[Irulan]

ok, this is me trying something new. I don't think I put this one in my camp report.
http://www.specialtyoutdoors.com/misc/camp/wIMG_1509.jpg

now, I did this swell move TWICE before I got it right. And no, it did not hurt.

~I.

[sgold]

Thanks for the feedback; it helps a lot. Does anyone know of a women's mountainbiking skills clinic in San Diego?

[kimba]

Oh yeah- and something else I was thinking about-
I think fatter tires help going through rocks too.
I know I'm riding 2.25 Tyrranoraptors - which I believe are actually mud tires, and they just charge over the rocks. They have a really wide and flatter tread pattern.I'm almost thinking of putting a 2.35 tire on the front, I think freeriders or downhillers do that.
A friend of mine is riding a 2.7 inch tire on the front- it's massive but he swears he can go over anything....it has a flatter, round dot type of tread pattern- but it goes over anthing, leaving the back tire which is knobbier to dig in.
Seems to work for him, though...

I haven't actually seen this addressed anywhere- but what do you folks think about different tires makes and models??

Width and treads?

Kimba

[bounceswoosh]

I think you're right that fat tires provide help with obstacles -- I rode with a friend recently; he has really fat tires on his rigid singlespeed, and he said that the fatness helps as it's the only bump absorption he gets.

The tradeoff, I think, is that you'll have to work harder to pedal up the mountain.

[Irulan]

Bigger tires DO help...but there are many other factors to consider. Big tires weigh more. Sometimes a lot more. I'd never do it just for the weight weenie factor. Depending on how big you go, you have to get new wheels to fit them, and possible the front shock- some do not have the clearances for bigger tires/wheels. Alsombig tires can contribute significantly to trail erosion.

As for different makes and models, I've seen that discused ad nauseum on other boards. Which ones wear the best, last the longest, work the best under different conditions.

Tread pattern in an important consideration for your particular location.. a tire that's made for mud may suck on sand, a slickrock tire wont grip wet roots etc. I find that the LBS guys are the best source of information. Some people I know keep several sets around.

No one has mentioned tire pressure. What you run at can make a huge difference in your ride. I've always run fairly high pressure ( 35-40#) and my friends convinced me to let some air out a few weeks ago, for a long mostly downhill ride we did. I couldn' beleive the difference in the ride it made. I was rolling over rocks and roots, instead on boucing off/over them. My suspension seems to be more effective, and the whole ride was improved.

ok,that's enough about tires.:)

Irulan

[bounceswoosh]

Also big tires can contribute significantly to trail erosion.

How do you figure? I'd think they would distribute the weight more and therefore cause less severe rutting ...

[kimba]

I would think that, say, my buddy's big front tire wouldn't add to trail erosion, since the tread pattern is so flat and doesn't have the big lugs to dig in, that it does roll over anything. Sort of like a big snowshoe....

Kimba

[Irulan]

When riders who do not know how to ride/brake/speed properly have bigger tires, it tears up the soil. Illustration: guy on dirt bike revving it up or skidding, dirt flying everywhere. These are the same kind of tires that some people put on mountain bikes.

What I think I'm trying to say is that bigger tread, misused, will tear up trails. Go to any DH specific area and watch the dirt fly. You tell the really good riders by how smooth they are, how much dirt they do NOT displace.

I question using a bigger tire as a substitute for skills... but this is an area that I have more opionion on than technical knowledge.

~I

[bounceswoosh]

Yeah. I don't know much about tire choice. My bike came with 2.25s, and they seem to work fine. I couldn't even tell you what was on my old bike. From the bikes I demo'd while shopping, though, it did seem like fatter tires made it easier to climb up loose, rocky stuff. I'm sure there's a tradeoff there somewhere, though.

[gabrielle]

Originally posted by sgold
I walked my bike a lot and felt embarrassed.



Originally posted by Irulan
you should NEVER EVER feel embarassed about walking... if the crowd you are riding with puts that on you, find a new crowd, and if you are putting it on yourself you need to get over it right now!!!! There is no shame in walking, ever!! It's crazy to push yourself too much just because of embarassment.. .that's when you can get really hurt!


THat is very important. Especially the peer pressure part. I hurt myself enough on my own - I don't need somebody pushing me to do harder stuff than I'm ready for. (I'll save my rant about crappy riding partners for another time. ;) )

I also agree that the skills clinics are wonderful. After I went to bike camp in BC, my main riding buddy said my riding had improved by a factor of 10 and he could tell I was more confident.

But to try to deal with your fear right now: do you have a local trail you can ride regularly that has a section that scares you? That helps in two ways: you can get comfortable with the trail, and you can see progress. :)

I am currently going through a major case of the willies - I OTBed on Friday, on an easy section of trail. The hard parts really flipped me out after that. I had to go back to my old technique (borrowed from kayaking): Break the scary section into pieces - look for good places to stop & "eddy out" & get myself back together for the next section.

Another thing I've done is walked almost to the bottom, then gotten on the bike & rode the rest. Stop farther up each time. Or, you could start at the bottom & go up a bit higher before you turn around & go back down. Of course, this requires the ability to stop & start on a hill. :) (Skills clinic!) Eventually, you will find that a lot of these things are easier to ride than to walk. :)

Random tips: weight back; arms relaxed; lower your saddle; look where you want to go, not where you don't want to go, and don't try to look at what's currently under your front tire or you will bail for sure.

Good luck, we've all been there, some of us several times. :)

gabrielle

[Irulan]

I learned some things today, so I stand corrected.

bigger tires= more surface contact, more rubber on the ground., less tire to sink in mud. I guess they roll over things ( roots rocks etc) easier... BUT the real downside of a bigger tire is always increased weight... at least I was right about something!! As a small female on a light bike, I always think about weight.

~I

[bounceswoosh]

I figure the weight I carry on my belly and in my camelbak far outstrips anything I have on my bike .... which weighs 29.5ish, ugh!

[kimba]

Heh!

Yeah- I figure even the weight of a 2.7 tire isn't gonna contibute more than the weight of my big ol'
butt on the saddle!
<big grin>

Seriously though- my buddy is a pretty accomplished rider, who I must admit, is not above some squirrely behaviour- but it's true- his 2.7 front tired bike doesn't seem to mark up the trail as much as others...and he just powers up hills- but then he also has legs o' iron since he doesn't own a car and his bike is his vehicle.
Man- he can really ride though!

Kimba

[bounceswoosh]

Two point ... seven? Inches?

Yowza. That's not a tire, that's a pontoon!

[kimba]

Tell me about it-
you should see it...raises the whole front end of the bike up too.

He has another one he wants to put on poor ol' Ted- but the 16 inch frame is marginally too big for me now- I have 2002 or 2003 Judy forks on him, and the clearance on them raises up the front end enough.I'm afraid I'd never get on if it was raised up more!!!

I have another bike,Elvira, the Schwinn, but I don't think there is enough clearance on those forks- they are SunTour XCPs -beefy as hell- but no where near the clearance that the Judy's have.

I'd love to try it and see- maybe I will have him put it on the Schwinn after all...woo mama!

Kimba

Huge -I tell you they are huge!!! (The tires)they are called Love Groovy XC's -
But they look funny- because they have this little raised dot pattern on them- no lugs no raised wedges...just..dots.

I'll post a picture if I can get one!!!

[Irulan]

Originally posted by bounceswoosh
Two point ... seven? Inches?

Yowza. That's not a tire, that's a pontoon!

cm (?)

[bounceswoosh]

These?

http://www.cambriabike.com/SALE/tires_tubes/love_groovy_xc_front-rear_tire.htm

[kimba]

similar- but they have either a grey or a blue stripe on 'em- and they are DEFINITELY 2.7's. But the tread pattern is the same...

Kimba