Maneuvering and balance

[Pedal Wench]

Hi!

I'm brand new to this forum, and I'm already addicted.

One question - I'm a fairly new rider and I've got a terrible problem with maneuvering around obstacles and corners. My boyfriend commutes on bicycle, so he rides like the bike is an extension of his body. I've crashed trying to get around a fire hydrant on the side of a bikepath. Trees are another nightmare. I'm not sure why I'm so unstable - is a balance problem? If we're on a bike path that makes a sharp turn, I freak out too. I have a fear of falling (I'm a hiker too, and have a hard time descending with steep drop-offs) and I wonder if this is part of it. There is a great bike path here in Atlanta, but I'm afraid that it might be crowded and I'll have to weave in and out of joggers.

Help!

[Irulan]

the first rule is to look where you want to go, not at what you want to avoid. You will hit it!! That is called target acquisituion. Also, look ahead of you, not at your front wheel or just in front of your wheel. If you look out ahead of you.. same thing, you will go where you look.

hth

Irulan

[Pedal Wench]

That's a great idea. I do see an obstacle, obsess, then freak. In my last crash, I saw the fire hydrant, got scared, over-corrected and decided it would be safer to crash into the hedge on the other side of the path.

How about tips on tight cornering? I'm a total dork - hopping off and walking them. There's an area that I ride in a marina where we ride out on a dock for just a short distance and I'm terrified. The thing is probably 10 feet wide, and I'm still convinced I'll fall into the water.

Irulan, I've read a bunch of your other posts - you have a wealth of great information, and as a newbie, it's greatly appreciated!

[JanT]

Welcome to cycling! One thing that will help you with maneuvering, cornering, etc. is to relax. When I first started mountain biking, I was really tense at times, to the point where I actually overshot the trail with too wide turns. So how do you relax when you're new and nervous? Well, the main thing is to just get out and ride. The more you ride, the more confident you will be, and just like your teacher always said, "Practice makes perfect!" That being said, I find that certain things still make me tense up, and I have to remind myself to relax my muscles. And for some reason, hard right turns (but not left) on single track challenge me. Maybe you could try getting out for rides when there are fewer people around? That's what worked for me.

[jobob]

When I first started riding my road bike I was really nervous on it because I wasn't yet accustomed to the position. My arms and shoulders would literally lock up, and oh yeah, what Irulan said, that was me :rolleyes:! With time and practice I relaxed. Trust me, it will happen for you too. Just get out there and ride.

[caligurl]

OHMIGOSH! thanx for asking this question! i do the same thing.. i see potholes or glass and i have the hardest time getting around them! UGH! i'm going to practice NOT looking at it tonight! (along with scraping gum and keeping my cadence up!) who knew biking was so hard!!!:eek:

[Irulan]

tight corners... practice going as slow as you can in circles, make them smaller and smaller. You can control your speed also by racheting back 1/4 turns. Look where you want to go. At least this is how mountain bikers do it.

Irulan

[caligurl]

Originally posted by Irulan
tight corners... practice going as slow as you can in circles, make them smaller and smaller. You can control your speed also by racheting back 1/4 turns. Look where you want to go. At least this is how mountain bikers do it.

Irulan

what do you mean racheting back 1/4 turns?

hmmmmm slow circles... now that just makes me think i'll fall off my bike! lol!

[bounceswoosh]

If you have trouble keeping your balance when going really slow, you might try something my hubby taught me. It sounds weird, but it works. If you need to go slow, keep pedalling but use your brakes at the same time. You have better balance this way than if you try to go slowly just by braking.

[maryellen]

AudioA--thx for starting this thread. I am a newish rider and although I'm strong, maneuvering and balance remain major challenges. Looking where you want to go is crucial.

Gotta admit though, as I live in NYC, I've given myself permission to get off the bike and walk whenever I need to. I rarely do it, but I know I can if I have to. I like a challenge but don't want to be terrified especially around cars and pedestrians. I need to practice the ever tighter circles, thx for the reminder, whoever suggested this one.

[pedalfaster]

Some more thoughts on going were you look:

Zen thoughts: be like water. flow. look for the path of least resistance.

And for the artists (this works especially well in tree-lined singletrack) : look for the negative spaces.

[Pedal Wench]

Thanks everyone!
One thing that I might be doing is slowing down too much, and of course, it's harder to control when you're barely moving.

What did you mean about ratcheting back 1/4?

Also, I've noticed that I can turn much tighter turns on my mtb, so it might just be that the position on my road bike makes me feel unstable.

Keep the advice coming! I need it!

[magrat22]

I'm exactly the same Audio A. Last week I was on a narrow path I was so afraid I was going to go onto the road I ended up in a hedge..and I mean in it!! My big problem is when I want to turn into a road I keep overshooting it and always end up on the wrong side, luckily so far I haven't met an oncoming car but it's something I really nervous about so it's probably why I keep doing it...d'oh!! ;)

[Dogmama]

Tight turns - find an empty parking lot & do figure 8's. This gives you practice turning in both directions.

Missing obstacles, like Irulan said, look where you want to go, NOT at the obstacle.

Also, realize that shifting your body weight will move the bike as well as turning the front tire. I'll usually just lean a bit one way or the other to miss stuff in the street.

[pedalfaster]

I'm better at "doing" than explaining, but I'll try.

Ratcheting is a technique used by mtbers to get through and around obstacles when one doesn't have room to make full pedal-strokes. It can also be used for water short water crossings when you don't want to get your feet wet ;)

On the road riders will sometimes ratchet while in doing a trackstand (http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=986&highlight=trackstand)

Coast with your pedals at 9 and 3. Now press the "3" foot back, then almost immediately press the "9" foot forward. It's kind of a rocking motion that can be used to ever-so-gently propel the bike forward slowly.

Hope that helps; perhaps someone else can explain it more clearly. :)

[Irulan]

Ratcheting is a technique used by mtbers to get through and around obstacles when one doesn't have room to make full pedal-strokes. It can also be used for water short water crossings when you don't want to get your feet wet

It's not just a matter of room to do a pedal stroke, it's used when a full pedal stroke would take you too far, give you too much power. Or where you need more momentum than you will get from coasting, and you can't control your speed with brakes, or just balancing.

What is it anyway? It's little movements backpedaling or "racheting" just a little bit, then applying just a hair of a pedal stroke, rinse repeat.

Now, I don't know about road biking, but when manuvering around very tight obstacles on a MB, you should be out of the saddle in a neutral position, and pedal level ( 3/9) and fingertips on the brake lever.

Let's see how long I can remember all this stuff from camp... ;-)

Irulan

[Trek420]

Dogmama "Tight turns - find an empty parking lot & do figure 8's. This gives you practice turning in both directions."

...and or practice in a park on grass? Soft landing pad.

check in with your body, you may not know how tense you are, some suggest "playing piano", see if you can wiggle your fingers. If they are tight RELAXE ;-)

Lower your shoulders, drop your elbows. I find I can put my body where it would be if I were relaxed faster than can think the tension away.

Oh, don't forget to breath.

On turns I keep my outside leg down ie: turning right, right foot is up. First you won't risk cliping the pavement with your pedal, more important you weight the outside of the bike, you will feel more stable, like carving a turn on skis ...at least I think that's what turning on skis feels like (I don't ski). Anywho... I don't know if this is right but I set up the angle and speed of a turn going in, drop the outside leg and then pedal out of it. Pedaling out of it really feels stable.

[Irulan]

On turns I keep my outside leg down ie: turning right, right foot is up. First you won't risk cliping the pavement with your pedal, more important you weight the outside of the bike, you will feel more stable, like carving a turn on skis ...at least I think that's what turning on skis feels like (I don't ski). Anywho... I don't know if this is right but I set up the angle and speed of a turn going in, drop the outside leg and then pedal out of it. Pedaling out of it really feels stable.

I leaned to turn like that road biking, and it's considered a high speed turn techinique for the MB. I sitll love to take a high speed road corner like that, put a little knee and elbow into it. I get a little nervous on the gravel tho. I think this is where MB/and road technique digress, with all my coaching and clinicin, the other techniques are what is typically used MB. And yes, body posistion in high speed turns is just like skiing, or motorcycle racing. Hips to the inside, shoulders to the outdies, the "edge" ( wheel, carving edge of the ski) and your shoulder counterbalanced with your "edge".. CG somewhere in the middle.
http://www.youcanski.com/images/arttic9.jpg

http://www.psia.org/psia_2002/education/TPSArticles/teaching/spring94carvingbike2.jpg

this is getting a little derailed from "slow obstacles" but as a skier and a cyclist I find the cross over very interesting

irulan

[bounceswoosh]

I was told to keep the inside leg up on turns at a mtb clinic, too. I'm usually so busy doing other things on a tight turn that I don't remember, though. I couldn't tell you where my feet are.

[Trek420]

Irulan wrote "....I get a little nervous on the gravel tho."

Me too, but I think of it like riding through sand, gear down, keep a straight line. If I turn in sand/gravel it's all over. I'll feather the pedals, keep it real light but keep 'em moving. Don't know if that's right but I haven't fallen in gravel...yet...that and don't forget to breath ;-)

"yes, body posistion in high speed turns is just like skiing, or motorcycle racing. Hips to the inside, shoulders to the outside, the "edge" ( wheel, carving edge of the ski) and your shoulder counterbalanced with your "edge".. CG somewhere in the middle."

When I'm on a long windy downhill it feels like my one attempt skiing...except for the not being able to stop part. I'll watch more experienced riders and match what they do. That's where i picked up "point your inside knee where you want to go". I'm watching the TDF, that seems to be what the "big boys" do too on turns

"this is getting a little derailed from "slow obstacles" but as a skier and a cyclist I find the cross over very interesting"

I don't think so, slow turns, fast turns, it's all turning. And speaking of derailed...don't forget to take those train tracks at right angles! ;-)

[hibiscus09]

the first rule is to look where you want to go, not at what you want to avoid. You will hit it!!

I got tickled reading that as I ride a lot at Kiawah Island, S.C. on the bike paths. Well when the kiddies (and lots of times adults) are out riding their beach cruisers, it is so funny what they do when they see a road cyclist heading their way with the helmet, more serious looking bike, clipless pedals, etc. I don't go real fast when I see bikers coming at me on the path but they still kind of get a stressed look on their faces a lot of times, lock eyes on me, and start heading right towards me!! I'm thinking "Get over!" because the paths are plenty wide for bikers to be coming and going (around 7 feet or so) but they still just come right at me. :eek: :D I don't say anything to them as they seem totally out of control and are just happy families on vacation, but I have to do some quick maneuvering. I even had one lady yell, "Watch out! I don't know how to ride a bike!" :D

I would much prefer to be on the road, but the Kiawah Island police will ticket you if they catch you out there. :rolleyes: Sometimes I go out there anyway if I'm feeling like I don't care.

I used to be too nervous to get out on the bike trails once it was about past 9:00a.m. and I knew the tourists were out and about, but now I just go ahead anyway as I'm more comfortable with my clipless pedals. One time this cute little 4ish old looking little boy almost ran me into the lagoon with the alligators! LOL

[maryellen]

<<lock eyes on me, and start heading right towards me!! >>

pedestrians do this as well. Here in NYC, I call this the mesmerizing power of the oncoming cyclist. I cannot look jaywalking pedestrians in the eye. If I do, they become instantly hypnotized and incapable of acting in a predictable or sensible fashion.

[Pedal Wench]

Hah! That just about describes crash number 2 for me! On a very wide boardwalk/bike path in Florida, a whole family was stretched out taking up the entire path, which must have been a good 15 feet wide. We were headed towards them, single file, clinging to the edge assuming that at some point, they would shift over to let us pass, but nope - they just stared right at us and never moved. To avoid a head on colision with the mother of this crowd, my boyfriend slammed on his brakes, and unfortunately, I didn't hit mine as aggressively, so I did my first crash. Luckily, I didn't really remember how I got over the top of the handlebars, and only had a few scrapes.

I guess I'm not that bad - I only hit telephone poles, fire hydrants and hedges!

(rant coming) And, by the way, what's up with the city of Miami that they can build these great bike paths and bike-legal sidewalks and insist on putting telephone poles and fire hydrants in the middle of them????

[Dogmama]

Yup. In Tucson they put "men working" signs right in the middle of the bike paths.

I stay off of multi-use bike/pedestrian/small dog/little-old-lady paths as much as possible. I figure they don't want me whizzing by them as much as I don't want them wandering in my path. The only time I venture out is early early in the morning, before Aunt Bessie & Peaches hit the path.

[Trek420]

On vacation in Oregon I think we were at Diamond Lake (near Crater lake.) which has a 20+ mile 2 lane paved bike path around it. So we're riding on the path, come around a sharp corner and there's a couple riding two abreast on the wrong side of the path. Quick braking, followed by some words i did not know I knew along the lines of "you morons, what are you, British? Get on the right side of the path..."

As we left I heard the woman in a serious and authentic British accent say "oh my, do they ride their bicycles on the right side of the road as well then?"

I'll take traffic over bike paths any day :p :rolleyes:

[hibiscus09]

I wish we had bike paths in South Carolina. I'm lucky here at Kiawah that there is somewhere to ride -- but, for the most part S.C. does not have bike lanes. Kiawah is where we vacation, but at home cyclists are just out in the actual car lanes and people are not very cautious of them a lot of times.

We do have nice mountain biking trails in S.C. -- unfortunately, I don't own a mountain bike!

[Pedal Wench]

It works! I just got back, and didn't have a moment of panic. It took a conscious effort - see the mailbox, acknowledge the mailbox, look past the mailbox, 'flow' past the mailbox! Today was rough because everyone has decided that campaign signs are more effective when they jut out over the edge of the road...

I was on my mtb, which I seem to have more control over than my road bike. Next weekend I get to ride my road bike again, so we'll see if the zen approach works there too.

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I had a great ride!