Rivendell magic?

[roguedog]

Those of you who own or have ridden a Rivendell, what's the magic? What makes them the bike that everyone seems to talk about? They don't even market that much and yet on many of the forums I peruse, there talked about with drool and reverance...

Um.. uh if someone wants to sell me one in my size that's only got about 400 miles on it for $650 . i think that's a good deal??

I'm just wondering if I build up the X0-1 if it'll just be like the Atlantis.. And all I wanted was a commuter frame for "cheap." BUt if this is a deal.. I'm not sure I can pass it up. And I think it's got Peter White wheels...

And I had wanted a 700cc for commuting.. just to be diff form the X0-1... Oh well? Does having 26's slwo ya down or make a diff in the feeling of freedom?

[Veronica]

For me the magic is that I have a bike I can do pretty much anything with. and I think it's beautiful.

It will last for as many years as I want to ride.

It's comfortable when I need to spend 17 hours on it.

Then there is the whole idea that it has some craftsmanship to it. I value that.


Plus I've worked directly with the guys at Riv. They are great and really listen to what you want. There is no push to get something that you may not need.

V.

[KnottedYet]

If you can get one for $650 with only 400 miles on it AND it's your size, well, gee-whiz, go get it!!! I sincerely doubt you'd regret it. And even if you did, I'm sure you could sell it through this board in a heartbeat.

[roguedog]

Veronica,

you think $650 is pretty good for a built up atlantis w/ peter white wheels?

I think so.. but i'm not sure...

[Veronica]

A new Atlantis frame, fork and headset is $1400.

I wonder why the bike is being sold so cheaply.

V.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Yes, the frame alone would normally be at least twice that amount. And if it's a complete bike already built up, then 3 times that amount would not be unusual at all. Are you seeing this one on Craigslist? Might be stolen perhaps, or a scam? Lots of crooks lurk about in Craigs, preying on the poor masses of drooling Riv seekers... :(

Nobody would sell a 400 miled complete Rivendell Atlantis for $650 if they knew anything at all about bikes. Unless they were A) a crook or B) incredibly dumb.

As to why people love them so much... many reasons. First, they are beautiful, and beautifully made of quality materials. Hand made lugged steel bikes are becoming sought after again after a period of being out of fashion -when everyone wanted to be part of the Tour de France speed demon wannabees. You can ride Rivs anywhere even rough gravel and stone roads, because they are made to accept tires up to 700x38 ...WITH fenders! They don't crack like carbon in a crash- they can be repaired. They last a lifetime...or several. They are made to be COMFORTABLE to ride- no handlebar way lower than saddle posture seen here- usually saddle and bars are the same height, resulting in a comfy more upright posture while riding. Geometry makes for great long distance touring and the steel makes for a comfy ride as well.

Lots of people "Rivendellize" their bikes by putting Brooks saddles, cork tape, Baggins saddlebags, fenders(if they will fit) and trying to raise their handlebars. But these can't really make it feel just like a Riv because they lack the relaxed geometry, have different proportions and angles, and maybe aren't lugged steel, etc. But nothing wrong in improving the looks of any bike anyway! ;)

[mimitabby]

my Peter White wheels (which are nothing special, not racing, etc) were upwards of $300 before my DH decided i needed the Schmidt hub too, so subtract that from the total price (and without tires, brakes, etc, etc)
you've got a good deal.

[Veronica]

Sounds like too good of a deal. Unless you know the seller.

V.

[KayTee]

...or unless it's been crashed or otherwise damaged and not repaired, maybe.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Sounds like too good of a deal. Unless you know the seller.

V.

I agree.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Does having 26's slwo ya down or make a diff in the feeling of freedom?

Not according to everyone's reports that I have read. In fact, if you are not a tall woman the 26's might help you go FASTER than if you were trying to adapt to 700's on a bike that is slightly larger than your ideal bike.

[twin]

I really love my Rivendell Bleriot. I think the best part is the versitilty of tire sizes and being able to ride on all kinds of surfaces. I like steel and lugs. Mine is very comfortable for long rides and for my commutes. I feel like a kid because I can take it anywhere even on gravel. My wheels are 650B and have the cush factor. I wonder what the deal with the Atlantis is. Let us know.

[jobob]

Back in late January the i-Bob and SIR (Seattle Randonneurs) lists were a-buzz over an Atlantis advertised for $1000 on the Seattle Craigslist. People were suspecting that it might have been stolen, in part on account of the low cost.

[Triskeliongirl]

I agree that one has to be cautious when a frame comes along that is too good to be true, but it isn't always stolen or a scam. I got a terrific buy on a 2003 terry isis frame on ebay, but I first asked for the serial number, and then ran it thourgh both the stolen bike registry, and even corresponded with Georgena Terry to confirm its history before my purchase. There can be good reasons someone sells a bike cheap, in my case it was cuz it required a special 24" fork that wasn't commercially available, sometimes the person just doesn't know what its worth, sometimes they just need cash quickly, all kinds of reasons. So by all means approach this with caution, YES its a deal, MAYBE somethings off about it too, but MAYBE its totally OK, you need to find out for yourself.

[xeney]

The bike could also just be old and out of date, in spite of the mileage. This one (http://cgi.ebay.com/Rivendell-Atlantis_W0QQitemZ110098080640QQihZ001QQcategoryZ98084QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) is listed at $900, and the auction ends in less than 8 hours, and no bids.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

The bike could also just be old and out of date, in spite of the mileage. This one (http://cgi.ebay.com/Rivendell-Atlantis_W0QQitemZ110098080640QQihZ001QQcategoryZ98084QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) is listed at $900, and the auction ends in less than 8 hours, and no bids.

No bids until the last few minutes of the auction is quite common. Let's see what it sells for. It does need a few new parts due to wear, and it's got a few scratches, but the bike itself is certainly not old or out of date...Rivendell's only been making bikes for about 12 years! And I don't think they've changed much about the Atlantis during those years. There are no out of date Atlantises yet- just well loved ones that might need new parts. ;)

[xeney]

Well, that's what I meant. "New parts" can cost a fortune.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Yes, new parts are expensive for most bikes. Often half the cost of a bike IS parts, and the other half is the plain frame. or vice versa :D :rolleyes: So one must certainly be aware of that when buying frames alone, or when comp[aring built up bikes with frames.

[mimitabby]

That bike's been around the block. At least the seller is being more upfront than the person who sold me my Bianchi on ebay. I found out after I got it about the wheels out of round and the worn out hub.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

That bike's been around the block.

Well, an Atlantis can go around a HELL of a lot of blocks before it's ready for the junk heap! ;)

[SadieKate]

Lots of people "Rivendellize" their bikes by putting Brooks saddles, cork tape, Baggins saddlebags, fenders(if they will fit) and trying to raise their handlebars. But these can't really make it feel just like a Riv because they lack the relaxed geometry, have different proportions and angles, and maybe aren't lugged steel, etc. But nothing wrong in improving the looks of any bike anyway! ;)
Rivendellize? Grant Peterson merely took the audax and touring style bikes popular back in 60/70/80s and tried to make a quality production bike for the American market. For awhile, he was able to push his passion for this style bike through the financing and production of Bridgestone. There was an era in the US when this style bike lost popularity and he started Rivendell with both its production and custom frames. Yes, Peterson has been the leading US proponent of the touring bike with an upright position and ability to carry lots of stuff, but it isn't a new or unique idea. Rivendells are simply his twist on this niche for the US bicycle market. Look at the UK and Europe. These style bikes have always been available and those of us in the know bought them - Mercian and Bob Jackson to name a few brands. In the US, Trek made some fabulous production touring bikes. Feel free to wax eloquent about Rivendell because you like the bikes (and they are pretty), but don't think Grant invented this style bike or that other builders don't build frames of equal quality. Against many odds, Grant kept the passion alive in the US and is now seeing a resurgence in lugged steel frames in the US. I'll definitely give him kudos for that, but Rivendellize? :confused:

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Rivendellize? ... Feel free to wax eloquent about Rivendell because you like the bikes (and they are pretty), but don't think Grant invented this style bike or that other builders don't build frames of equal quality. Against many odds, Grant kept the passion alive in the US and is now seeing a resurgence in lugged steel frames in the US. I'll definitely give him kudos for that, but Rivendellize? :confused:

Hey you're barking up the wrong tree, girl- I didn't invent the term "Rivendellize"... you should hear some of the ridiculous roadie guys on other forums talking about "Rivendellizing" their Treks by putting Brooks saddles, and cork tape with shellac, and Baggins banana bags, panniers, etc. The whole idea is totally silly and ridiculous. And Grant would be the FIRST to say he didn't "invent" any of this- he always says how he merely likes to make bikes like the old European steel touring/pleasure/errand bikes, with lugs and fatter tires, 650B tires, relaxed geometry, more upright riding position, made to carry touring packs, etc. He always talks about how he likes the way things were well made and designed back then, not how he "invented" anything. And yes, there are plenty of other wonderful builders around today- and a good thing too!

DH and I went into a fairly big bike store the other day while driving about. I asked the owner if he has any steel bikes. He said "No, they don't make those much anymore- they're on the way out." :D :D :D

[mimitabby]

Sheesh, I had a brooks saddle before Rivendell started making bikes.
And I had a bike with fenders back then too!!!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Sheesh, I had a brooks saddle before Rivendell started making bikes.
And I had a bike with fenders back then too!!!

I know, and that's why the term "rivendellize" is so dumb. I think mostly I've heard young male roadies use it when they get bored with their bikes and want a new "look".

[SadieKate]

Hey you're barking up the wrong tree, girl- I didn't invent the term "Rivendellize"...

DH and I went into a fairly big bike store the other day while driving about. I asked the owner if he has any steel bikes. He said "No, they don't make those much anymore- they're on the way out." :D :D :DHey, then don't perpetuate it! :)

Funny thing, our LBS has starting carrying both Colnago and De Rosa -- because they make steel frames. Apparently there is a demand for Italian steel again. That De Rosa Neo Primata in red makes my heart sing. Thank goodness the frame in the shop is too large. Whew.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Hey, then don't perpetuate it! :)

Hey, then don't perpetuate it by talking about me perpetualating it! :eek: :eek: ;) ;) :rolleyes:

[mimitabby]

Hey, then don't perpetuate it! :)

Funny thing, our LBS has starting carrying both Colnago and De Rosa -- because they make steel frames. Apparently there is a demand for Italian steel again. That De Rosa Neo Primata in red makes my heart sing. Thank goodness the frame in the shop is too large. Whew.

MY LBS has Colnago too. Any DeRosas with Fender clearance? NO I didn't think so.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

So Mimi- I know you want fenders, but what width tires are you wanting to use?
Are you wanting to go on gravel roads too, or just paved road? Are you planning to do any racing? Any touring?

[SadieKate]

Yes, if you want to buy the cyclocross but it's not steel. You'd have to use clip on fenders but it will take wide tires.

Mimi, why are you set on Italian? Italy is known for its racing bikes not its touring bikes. I'm sure it has beautiful touring bikes but nothing any better than you can get from one of the many fabulous PNW builders. As a co-worker would say, don't buy a Ferrari to squish grapes.

I'd even consider going with an up and comer with incredible mentors and who is focused on us wimmenfolk - just to be on the cutting edge and have a bike built with the exact braze-ons and position you want.

http://www.sweetpeabicycles.com/blog/

And check it out, she's going to be on the radio tomorrow.
http://www.sweetpeabicycles.com/blog/2007/03/05/sweetpea-bicycles-on-the-kboo-bike-show/

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I've been lusting after Vanilla bicycles (not that I'm going to get one). And Luna cycles are sweet too, as far as I've seen.

[SadieKate]

Mimi, if you want off the shelf and ready to roll for fenders and racks, but don't want American, have you thought of Mercian? Mercian has an impeccable pedigree for the functionality you want in a bike.

http://www.merciancycles.com/frame_audax.asp
http://www.merciancycles.com/frame_king_mercia.asp

And if you want wild colors -
http://www.merciancycles.com/psmith_tour.asp

[mimitabby]

oooooooooooooooooooh

these are pretty!!!!

Raleighdon was looking at these before he decided on something made closer to home!

[Trekhawk]

Hey, then don't perpetuate it! :)

Funny thing, our LBS has starting carrying both Colnago and De Rosa -- because they make steel frames. Apparently there is a demand for Italian steel again. That De Rosa Neo Primata in red makes my heart sing. Thank goodness the frame in the shop is too large. Whew.

Should I tell you that there is a De Rosa Neo Primata on Ebay and I think its your size????

Trek-I like spending others money-hawk:D

[SadieKate]

Whew. Too small and wrong color (http://cgi.ebay.com/De-Rosa-Neo-Primato-Molteni-48-49-cm-rare-excellent_W0QQitemZ220087031629QQihZ012QQcategoryZ98084QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem).

:D

Has to be the Faema (http://www.albabici.com/derosa/07-frames/neoprimato/neoprimato-faema.htm).

[mimitabby]

Yep, those bikes are beautimous.

but look how close the rear tire is to the seat tube. uh uh.. not for me.
(see, I'm learning. but sheesh, those Mercian's THAT's scary.

[roguedog]

Here's my latest drool bike:

http://www.mariposabicycles.com/650b-touring.html

[SadieKate]

(see, I'm learning. but sheesh, those Mercian's THAT's scary.What's scary?

[mimitabby]

Scary because I already tried to call them but for some reason my calling card that works for Italy won't work for their phone number (it's supposed to)
Scary because they are beautiful, exotic, and have room for fenders.
Scary because once again I am looking at something FAR AWAY.

[SadieKate]

But your bike shop can work with them on the sizing and angles. Mimi, did you have a fit done with a Serotta Fit bike or something similar? Not the Bianchi. The fitter will put you into the right position on a fit bike and let you sit and spin awhile. He can't do this on your own bike as the position may be completely different.

Oh, and yeah for looking at Mercians.

[mimitabby]

Raleighdon says that the Serotta fit is based on men's sizes and might not be good for me. ??

[SadieKate]

Mimi, how can a piece of equipment with completely movable parts be based on men's sizes? Scroll through these pictures. See the weird contraption with one wheel? That's it. The fitter can place you in a postion best for your body, both based on dimensions and on flexibility and injuries.
http://www.serotta.com/pages/features.html

You've got master fitters in your area.
http://www.serotta.com/pages/grads.html

Mimi, you aren't getting any younger. Is your back less flexible now than it was a few years back? Even with a touring/audax frame you could have a front end lower than you want. Or you may need a different seat angle. You need to find this out before just ordering a production frame. This is an investment that you'll keep for years. I spoke to several frame builders this weekend and the ones with the most years of experience and humble attitude said (paraphrased) "Get fit on a Serotta-style system. You need to be in the exact and proper position and from that we'll take numbers."

[mimitabby]

Mimi, you aren't getting any younger. Is your back less flexible now than it was a few years back? Even with a touring/audax frame you could have a front end lower than you want. Or you may need a different seat angle. You need to find this out before just ordering a production frame. This is an investment that you'll keep for years. I spoke to several frame builders this weekend and the ones with the most years of experience and humble attitude said (paraphrased) "Get fit on a Serotta-style system. You need to be in the exact and proper position and from that we'll take numbers."

Thank you. I agree I agree.
So how come YOU spoke to several frame builders this weekend? what are you shopping for?

[SadieKate]

I went to the handmade Bike Show. Sometime in the next 1-2 years, I'll be replacing my Litespeed Tuscany.

I love the ride of Ti but I'm completely turned off by the bead blast finish that seems to be the new trend.

[maillotpois]

ditto on the serotta fit system. another woman friend of mine recommended I go for a fit at PK Racing, which uses this method. Chris was one of the head instructors at Serotta's fit school. it has been great. this is not a "men's fit" at all.

[mimitabby]

That Rivendell on EBAY didn't sell. I guess they were asking too much for the amount of wear and tear.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Yeah, I guess paint scratches and worn parts are more important to people than I thought. Funny- the first tiny paint ding i got on my Rivendell was very upsetting to me. Now, several dings later, it's no big deal to me and I feel like it's just part of riding and loving your bike. :rolleyes: When DH and I went to NYC a few months ago, we enjoyed looking at all the messenger bikes chained up everywhere- they were literally works of art in progress with all their mismatched replaced parts, various paint and rust layers chipping and showing through, duct tape...their scars were so extreme that each bike became a thing of beauty. :)

[mimitabby]

I try and do touch up on my bikes so the dings don't show as much . I HATE them.


and i don't think it was the paint dings. If the wheels are both out of true, this bike
has been used HARD, so what else is wrong?

[SadieKate]

Mimi, out of true wheels can simply be poorly built wheels.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Mimi, out of true wheels can simply be poorly built wheels.

And can't a wheel get out of true just by the spokes not being tensioned evenly? One of mine somehow got out of true after several thousand miles, and they trued it again by retensioning the spokes.

[SadieKate]

Well, that's poorly built IMHO.

Sometimes wheels need the spokes re-tensioned but a well built wheel can go years and years without that.

[xeney]

It was relisted and sold immediately for $800 on buy it now.

On the "Rivendellizing" ... I think that may partly stem from the fact that Rivendell is often a good (meaning less expensive) source for some of the items that people tend to associate with older touring bikes as well as Rivendell bikes, but of course it is also a lot of hype and marketing. Rivendells are gorgeous but the marketing spiel on this page turned me off (http://www.rivbike.com/bikes/quickbeam) to the point where I don't think I'd ever buy one. I would have no problem if that description of the Quickbeam focused on how pretty the bike is, how well-made it is, how clever all the options are ... but instead it is based on a whole lot of flat-out misinformation designed to make dumb people think that the only way to get those options is to buy a $1,400 bike from Rivendell.

Most people who convert old bikes into single-speeds aren't converting old track bikes (those mostly get made into fixies); they are converting old lugged-steel touring bikes. Both of mine can take 700 x 40 tires with a fender. He's right about the quick-release wheels, sort of; I have track wheels and they do require a wrench, but I take the quick-release skewers off my town bikes anyway to make it tougher for thieves. My husband has quick-release hubs on his single speeds. We have all the handle bar options and comfortable geometry and everything we want, and not one of those bikes cost more than $350, full built up with very similar components to what is available on the Quickbeam. Except we don't have two chainrings because we don't need them, and while I did consider putting a flip-flop rear wheel with two possible speeds onto one of mine, I decided I'd rather have a second bike ... so I have one that's low-geared and outfitted for town errands, and one that's higher-geared and stripped down, and they are both gorgeous and the total cost for two with all new components (including Brooks saddles) is still about a third of the cost of one new Quickbeam that comes without a saddle.

Which, again, is not to denigrate the Quickbeam; it's a beautiful bike and I'm glad somebody makes it and I think it's awesome that there are people willing to buy it and support its production. I just hate the fact that the marketing of that bike is based on the suggestion that you can't possibly get those options anywhere else, because Rivendell invented every good idea in the history of cycling.

[Trekhawk]

I went to the handmade Bike Show. Sometime in the next 1-2 years, I'll be replacing my Litespeed Tuscany.

I love the ride of Ti but I'm completely turned off by the bead blast finish that seems to be the new trend.

So what are you going to do with your Litespeed?? Are you going to keep that as your TT bike?

[SadieKate]

That's waaaay too far ahead to be thinking.

I haven't even figured out lunch yet.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Well, that's poorly built IMHO.

Sometimes wheels need the spokes re-tensioned but a well built wheel can go years and years without that.

I'm sure they "can". But I rode almost 2800 miles on my bike before the back wheel went slightly out of true, touching the brake pad a bit, and actually that only happened after I had broken a spoke after a rough ride and had it replaced. Perhaps the LBS guy didn't retension all the spokes properly when he replaced the spoke, because shortly after that was when I noticed my raer brake touching the rim on rotation. About a quarter of those 2800 miles were over very rough gravel and stone roads, with a lot of ditches, potholes, and dirt roads in between (even over a few tractor-rutted cow pastures!). To say my wheels were poorly built is perhaps a bit extreme in my opinion. But hey, to each their own.

[SadieKate]

I've ridden that many miles on hardtail mountain bikes without the wheels needing to be touched. Sometimes it just happens or the builder had a bad day. It's always good to keep checking wheels and spokes for problems.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

It was relisted and sold immediately for $800 on buy it now.
....Rivendells are gorgeous but the marketing spiel on this page turned me off (http://www.rivbike.com/bikes/quickbeam) to the point where I don't think I'd ever buy one. I would have no problem if that description of the Quickbeam focused on how pretty the bike is, how well-made it is, how clever all the options are ... but instead it is based on a whole lot of flat-out misinformation designed to make dumb people think that the only way to get those options is to buy a $1,400 bike from Rivendell.

OK, so I read that page. I read mostly stuff saying how well-made and well-designed it is, how clever all the options are. But nowhere did I read that the only way to get those options is to buy a $1,400 bike from Rivendell.



Most people who convert old bikes into single-speeds aren't converting old track bikes (those mostly get made into fixies); they are converting old lugged-steel touring bikes. Both of mine can take 700 x 40 tires with a fender. ...We have all the handle bar options and comfortable geometry and everything we want, and not one of those bikes cost more than $350, full built up with very similar components to what is available on the Quickbeam....they are both gorgeous and the total cost for two with all new components (including Brooks saddles) is still about a third of the cost of one new Quickbeam that comes without a saddle.
Which, again, is not to denigrate the Quickbeam; it's a beautiful bike and I'm glad somebody makes it and I think it's awesome that there are people willing to buy it and support its production. I just hate the fact that the marketing of that bike is based on the suggestion that you can't possibly get those options anywhere else, because Rivendell invented every good idea in the history of cycling.

There are LOTS of people who got old lugged steel touring bikes cheap and put new parts on them with the result that they have great lugged touring bikes for way less money than a new Rivendell. I love that people are doing that. Used to be just a few years ago you could find these frames on Ebay and in garage sales for like $20. Not so much anymore- it's getting harder and harder to find people selling them cheap. Ebay has allowed any clueless garage bike seller to get way more than what they might have gotten in their local garage sale. Now there are savvy buyers oozing out of every Ebay pore just watching for old lugged frames. Yes, one can get REALLY lucky and find just the right size lugged frame cheap somewhere...but it's getting harder. Parts cost more nowadays as well. Many people don't have the patience or the savvy to find the right frame, much less know how to go about getting it rebuilt. Good for you and your partner that you both saved a lot of money by rebuilding old frames, it's great that you were able to do that. Hopefully more people will be getting into rebuilding the wonderful old touring bikes now gathering dust in garages and basements.

But when you say "I just hate the fact that the marketing of that bike is based on the suggestion that you can't possibly get those options anywhere else, because Rivendell invented every good idea in the history of cycling."
Well you seem set on this idea and I feel you are reading that into everything you read about Rivendells. NOWHERE do I see it suggested that they invented all these things, or that you can't get a particular option anywhere else except from them. Instead they continually talk about how they use well thought out designs and concepts taken from traditional bikes, so why do you keep saying that they imply that they invented everything?? :confused: :confused: I just don't see their marketing website hype as being much different from any other lugged steel builder website I have read and looked at. They ALL extoll the virtues of their own bikes and how unique they are, how wonderfully designed they are, how well made, why you should get THEIR bike or frame, etc. etc. I see much the same marketing hype on all the sites I look at, so why pick so avidly on Rivendell?

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I've ridden that many miles on hardtail mountain bikes without the wheels needing to be touched. Sometimes it just happens or the builder had a bad day. It's always good to keep checking wheels and spokes for problems.

I don't feel it's logical to compare the two situations using a mountain bike as an example.
Yes it's good to keep checking wheels and spokes, I do that. But I don't conclude that my wheel was "poorly built" based on the events I described.

[xeney]

I see much the same marketing hype on all the sites I look at, so why pick so avidly on Rivendell?


Because this is a thread about Rivendell? Because the first five paragraphs of that page I linked to is, in fact, a bunch of misinformation about the "typical" singlespeed?

I think it's great that you love your bike and you love the company that built it, Lisa. But you are not correct about how difficult it is to find an old bike that's affordable and the right size. They're all over the place; I know because I frequent forums devoted to old bikes, and I've bought a lot of them. You don't get why I am picking on Rivendell; I don't get why Rivendell (which I'm sure builds great bikes, I've never heard of anyone who was unhappy with their Rivendell) is immune from criticism. I'm on the mailing list for the Riv. Reader and Grant says all kinds of silly things. I think the Quickbeam page is a prime example of some of his sillier pronouncements. He can build great bikes and still not be right one hundred percent of the time.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

You don't get why I am picking on Rivendell; I don't get why Rivendell (which I'm sure builds great bikes, I've never heard of anyone who was unhappy with their Rivendell) is immune from criticism. I'm on the mailing list for the Riv. Reader and Grant says all kinds of silly things. I think the Quickbeam page is a prime example of some of his sillier pronouncements. He can build great bikes and still not be right one hundred percent of the time.

I agree that Grant is not 100% correct on things. Not even close. Perhaps you confuse me with one of those young worshipping Riv apprentice monks in training. I have my own criticisms about Rivendell and how they are run. I think they totally miss the boat on quite a few things, and some things about what they do p*ss me off. So there! :p Maybe we are not so far apart in our thinking as one might think after all. Maybe we just dislike different things!

P.S. I DO love my bike. I don't "love" the company that built it. I like them, but I'm not slavishly devoted to them. I feel they do way more good than bad. I AM happy to have my very well made wonderful bike which I hope to ride and enjoy for many years and many thousands of miles. I feel it's certainly up to the task.

[SadieKate]

I don't feel it's logical to compare the two situations using a mountain bike as an example.
Yes it's good to keep checking wheels and spokes, I do that. But I don't conclude that my wheel was "poorly built" based on the events I described.OK, fine. How about a set of road wheels that my 200 lb hubby rode first and then I took over. Ridden over hill and dale. Never needed to be re-trued, tensioned, whatever . . . in 20+ years. You like this comparison better? You want the entire list of wheels we've ridden far more than 2,800 miles that haven't needed help? And unsuspended wheels on a bike that is crashed and slammed into rocks and ledges repeatedly are a pretty good example.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Did you ride them off the Empire State building or over Niagara Falls too? THEN I'd be truly impressed! :cool:


Hey, didn't they used to make heavier built wheels 20 years ago? Steel bikes were sure heavier back then. I remember my old Schwinn was built like a tank.

[SadieKate]

Lisa, you're going to look for any out, aren't you? Lessee, St. Patrick's Day gift 1986 or 7 - Saturae rims with the first bladed spokes on the market. Still have those puppies. Just came off the Mercian last summer. Weight will compare to any lightweight wheel of today. Never needed truing.

Wheels on my 200 lb hubby's cyclocross bike. 3,604 miles later. No truing.

Mavic/Chorus wheels with DB spokes and so light my husband won't even test ride the bike up and down the block. Bought in 1999 to go with the Litespeed but were immediately re-trued and tensioned by the same guy who built the Saturae wheels. Probably 10,000 miles on them now. Maybe more. Haven't been touched since.

Both hubby and I will jump speedbumps if appropriate. We respect our bikes but don't coddle them so the wheels get plenty of use.

So, what's your next reason for why 2,800 miles between truings is an acceptable level? :) :) :) :)

[xeney]

I think you have to go back closer to 30 years or longer to find many steel rims. And I think they are actually harder to keep true than alloy rims.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I think you have to go back closer to 30 years or longer to find many steel rims. And I think they are actually harder to keep true than alloy rims.

Nobody mentioned steel rims.

[SadieKate]

Lisa, Schwinns built like tanks had steel rims. I made the same assumption that Xeney did - you were thinking steel everything on a bike.

[mimitabby]

one of my sons' friends has an old steel rimmed schwinn. It is SOOO heavy
and she works SOOOO hard going up hills. but she "loves" the dumb bike.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Lisa, you're going to look for any out, aren't you?

....So, what's your next reason for why 2,800 miles between truings is an acceptable level? :) :) :) :)

Well the only thing you quoted that I don't quite get is why the Mavic wheels needed to be re-trued right after you bought them.

Again, what I think happened with my wheel, the whole story this time: A spoke broke on my rear wheel. I took it to my LBS where they replaced that spoke. Actually, they replaced THREE spokes-- because upon close examination we discovered the REASON that spoke broke and two others were nicked/bent right near the hub. It had happened when I had adjusted my derailleur setting (not very well...I'm learning) and the chain came off while I was cranking up a hill. Apparently the chain jammed in there and nicked/bent several spokes near the hub before I stopped and put the chain back on. I didn't realize at the time that the spokes had been nicked. (I know better now and I check my spokes often) Anyhow, they replaced 3 spokes and I took the bike home.
It was shortly after that when I noticed my brake pad lightly skimming the rim back there and I could see the wheel was not straight when spun. It had been fine before the spoke incident. So I took it back and he said he needed to retension all the spokes, which he did and it's been fine since then. My feeling is that he did not properly retension the spokes all around when he replaced the 3 spokes, I suspect he rushed through the job or had one of his teenage mechanics do it. I feel that's why the wheel was not straight, not because the wheel itself was badly built.
It's an LBS that I would not go to for major bike work, because they have highschool boys working back there sometimes fixing bikes, but the owner himself had done a nice tuneup previously for me, and I trusted him to do the spoke thing. It is the nearest and most convenient place. Not sure if I'll use them anymore except for really easy stuff.
But look, if you've decided my wheels are poorly built, I'm not going to keep arguing about it. It's easy to judge other people's bikes. And I fully realize that you know way more about bikes than I do. I sincerely AM happy for you that you've had such good experiences with your bikes in the past. All I can do is keep muddling along the best I know how, learning more along the way. But I still don't believe my wheels are poorly built. :cool:

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

one of my sons' friends has an old steel rimmed schwinn. It is SOOO heavy
and she works SOOOO hard going up hills. but she "loves" the dumb bike.

I remember my old blue girl's Schwinn when I was 12, the only bike that was ever my very own... until now with my blue Rambouillet. I had named it "Heather" :rolleyes: (!) That thing was HEAVY, but I have no clue what the rims were actually made of!
Like when you revisit your old school and everything looks minute although you remember it all as being huge....I remember going up incredible mountains on my one-speed coaster brake Schwinn. But when I revisted those roads 35 years later and saw those giant hills....well, they were MICROSCOPIC! :D :D It made me feel proud to know the hills I can get up nowadays (though granted I have better gearing!) and that I'm come a long way since then. But I have not lost the MOST important thing- the feeling of childhood joy and freedom when I pedal along on my bike. :)

[twin]

I have had wheels built by all kinds of shops including Rivendell and I have liked them all. BTW if someone wants to give me a Quickbeam that would be great. I would be glad to add it to my singlespeed collection. As for wheels never needing truing for millions of miles I bet shops hope not everybody is so lucky.