mid ride blahs

[crazycanuck]

Hey guys,

Hoping you can help me out with this question. It seems to be that in the middle of a long bike ride I run out of oomph for a bit. When I say Ooomph, it feels as if the engery has been sucked out of my body but it comes back at a medium rate. The zing returns & i'm like new again. Time frame-about 20min. (same for off road as well)

I am taking in the recommended grams of carbs/hr (55g)& the correct amount of water but it still happens. I don't want to be on a 60km ride & suddenly lose the group again.

What exactly am i doing wrong? I've read many of the older threads on hitting the wall but am not sure if it's that or something else. (The older threads gave me some good info & if you come accross a particular thread that has the exact same question, please let me know. I'll do another search)

Any ideas???

Thank you :)

C

[Wahine]

CC - How long are you riding when it sets in? Is this consistent? What changes do you make when you start to get your ooooomph back?

This sounds like a nutritional issue, but I'm not sure I have a suggestion. If you give us a little more info, I might be able to come up with something better than...

Try changing what you eat. You may need a faster acting/more easily digestable form of carb. I prefer gels, but there's lots of options.

My nutrition schedule is usually one gel 15 min before riding if I haven't had anything to eat in the last 1.5 to 2 hours. Then I'll have another after 20 min on the bike and then every 40 to 45 min after. I also drink gatorade on long rides (not my favorite drink, but it's what they give out at IM so I have to get used to it).

I would also wonder if you're not getting enough calories back in you, soon enough after a ride and if this is affecting your glycogen stores. This might mean you run out of muscle glycogen sooner than you should and it takes a while for your liver to release glycogen to "catch up".

By the way, this is all speculation. I really don't know all that much about nutrition. Just thought I'd share my random thoughts based on my tri experience.

[crazycanuck]

Hey wahine,

I have to say it varies on the ride but i'll give you the example from yesterday.

Yesterday it was about 40km into the ride. I just felt it wasn't there ya know & slowed down quite a bit. Prior to that I'd had three power gels & my electrolyte drink. I felt fine after I stopped for a few minutes & had more than enough energy for the final 20km. I thought about carrying a bannana then decided not to.

After the ride, I stopped for brekkie-toast w jam & a coffee. When I rode the final few kms to the pilates studio the energy was there then it wasn't.

This has always happened to me no matter when I ride. I have the energy, lose it for a bit, gain it back, slowly lose it then have almost too much energy. Does that make sense?

I'm off to re read Nancy Clark's Sports Nutrition Guidebook

About glycogen stores..any info is cool..
Thanks

C

[Grog]

Hey CC -

Let me chime in. I'm no nutrionist, but spontaneously I thought:

3 gels and a sport drink for 40 km? Isn't that a lot of sugar? Any reason why you have so much? I wonder if you could actually be crashing from too much. In 40 km (1h30m max?) I would perhaps have two gels, or one gel and one drink. Or, in that specific case, one gel with a bottle of water/drink mix, holding on until breakfast, then not much besides water... (And probably no coffee if I was going to ride more than a few kms after breakfast...)

And then the toast & jam with coffee, that takes some energy to digest as well... Coffee can play nasty tricks on you.

One component that's missing is how hard you were working during the ride. Were you giving all your spare change? Or just riding along?

Keep us posted with your experiments...

[solveig]

I think Grog may be onto something. I haven't experienced this on the bike as much as in regular life, but it sounds like the sugar rush/crash cycle. Also, it looks like you're eating plenty of carbs but not a lot of protein. From what I understand, you wouldn't need much protein during the ride for rides of the length you're describing, but you might need more post-ride and in the rest of your daily diet. I consciously upped my protein about 2 months ago, and that, along with less sugar, has leveled out my energy rush/crash cycles as well as my moods.

Good luck!

S

[DeniseGoldberg]

After the ride, I stopped for brekkie-toast w jam & a coffee.
Did you eat before your ride? Or were you only relying on the gels? And toast w/ jam sounds like just carbs...

I always eat a balanced meal (protein, carbs) before I ride (not right before I head out of the door, but within a reasonable amount of time). I drink water and Gatorade during my ride, and I usually use bars to refuel.

--- Denise

[Wahine]

So, I did a little literature search this morning in some sports med journals and checked out some abstracts. The conclusion is..... inconclusive.

But...

What I can say is that everyone on this thread seems to be on the right track. One of the more recent findings in sports physiology is that there is a protective mechanism in the central nervous system (brain and spinal cord) that anticipates a blood glucose catastrophe and will refleively decrease power output.

So, if you strech this a little, well maybe a lot, and yes I am stretching, about to tear something even...

Here's my new thought, your blood glucose is dropping but rather than falling into a full bonk you end up in this state of reflexive decrease in activity due to protective mechanisms in the CNS. Now, If you've taken in a lot of easy to digest glucose and quickly stored a bunch of it because you didn't need quite that much *and* your thyroid is not able to easily help manage metabolism because of other factors. I think your body can't equilibrate the level of glucose in your blood stream easily. Because of how and what your eating as well as hormonal issues.

My newest suggestion is to eat complex carbs with a balance of protien and fat an hour, 2 might be better before a long ride, this may help to even out your glucose absoption. Then carry on with the usual recommended intake for you during exercise. Also, think about any meds you might be taking and how they affect your metabolic rate, you may need to change your med schedule. But that's something you have to talk to a doctor or pharmacist about.

CC - I hope I didn't upset you by bringing up the thyroid thing in this post, but I really think its a factor.

[crazycanuck]

Thanks ladies,

I'll post more later but just letting you know-prior to leaving home I had toast w jam & a banana

The 60km ride took 2hrs 27min. In my water bottle it was 2 water mixed with about 8g of powergel sports drink. I had two power gel's per hour.

I'm going to have to find out more about metabolic rate as i've no clue...

I plead ignorance when it comes to my thyroid. My dr's main concern was me taking the medication & nothing else..I've never discussed this with him as i just started increasing my km's..

i'll sleep on this & see what my thoughts are in the morning.

C

[crazycanuck]

I felt much better on my ride today. I was on a 50 km easy mtn bike ride & didn't have a sugar low. Perhaps it was dinner last night or the breakfast this morning that helped.

I was out there for about 3 1/2hrs & in that time I had a banana, 2 gu's, a small baggie of raisins & water mixed with about 5g of powergel sports drink.

It was raining & a bit chilly so perhaps that helped as well.

Just thought I might give some further info :)

c

[tattiefritter]

Crazycanuck, good to know your ride was better today. I have a similar problem to you in that I will get blood sugar crashes during a ride. Mine are currently, I think, due to not fuelling enough - looking at what you consume during a ride I need to get myself better organised.

In the past I used to get much more severe crashes due to having caffeine (i.e. coffee) before riding. I have to avoid caffeine before rides and will occasionaly have a caffeinated gel or drink during a ride only if I know there is less than an hour of riding left.

I'm restarting my food diary again (yawn) to see what and how much I'm actually eating and when to try to stop myself running on empty during riding. Doesn't help that whenever I know I need to eat more (like last Saturday) I just can't physically make myself do it :o, I just feel full. My main sports related New Years resolution was to sort out my nutrition but its gone by the wayside a bit.

Toast and jam is the kind of thing I like for breakfast, unfortunately my body will burn through that in about an hour and I'll be hungry again and that's without putting exercise (or caffeine) into the mix. Its winter here so I either have porridge (made with 100% chunky rolled oats) and fruit if its going to be a hard ride or something like a bagel with cream cheese and bacon if not so hard a ride. In the warmer months my breakfast of champions is wholemeal toast with peanut butter (natural pb, no added sugar) and banana, keeps me going for hours.

There is a big history of thyroid problems in my immediate family so I've done a bit of research (forewarned is forearmed etc) and I could find little on coping with thyroid problems while maintaining a high level of exercise.

[crazycanuck]

Tattie-good to see you're also getting yourself organized :) . I often wonder if i'm the only one out there with the same question...

In reference to your last comment about increased exercise & thyroids-i'm curious as well.

Perhaps a new thread :)

C

[solveig]

Hey tattie -
I have the same deal when it comes to getting myself to eat more. I've spent so many years trying to get myself to STOP eating when I'm full that I have a hard time overriding that.

I'm playing phone tag with a nutritionist who has experience with women athletes, and I'm hoping she'll be able to help me sort this out.

I'll let you know what I learn.

:)
S

[mimitabby]

I don't know if this will help you or not. I did a ride close to the length of a 60 k this weekend.
(41 miles) I ate an average breakfast, followed by a hot chocolate.
I drank only water after that, and did fine until about mile 35 when the stomach started growling. I got to feeling tired after that, so I stopped and ate a bar and within 5 minutes enough blood sugar hit me that I picked my speed back up again.
DH told me I should have had that bar earlier...
but I don't drink a lot of those sports drinks unless it is very hot and I still drink more water than anything.

[Bluetree]

CC - I'm in the same boat with you in a lot of ways... still trying to figure out my nutritional needs for sustained rides. I do not think I could ride with the amount that you're eating...I need way more calories than that. Here was my ride this morning...

First hour: warm up in aerobic zone, HR between 130-140.
Second hour: hill training, intervals, anerobic zone, HR reaching 190 at times
Third hour: flat speed, HR between 155-170
Final stats: 40 miles, some hills, 3 hours
(My HRM says I burned 1900 calories, but I'm not sure if that's accurate)

Dinner the night before:
Half of a large plate of marinara spaghetti + bread + 1 giant meatball + lots of water + dinner salad
Breakfast (1 hour before ride):
Second half of leftover pasta, 1 cup coffee, 20 oz. water
During the ride:
Three 24 oz bottles of Accelerade (one scoop, not two, in each bottle). I put one scoop in little snack baggies and add them when I stop to refill my water bottle. Plus, one bag of Clif Blocks, one block every 10-15 minutes, starting at the 1-1/2-hour mark. After the ride, a tall glass of chocolate milk.

I came off the bike feeling great and could've gone much longer, had it not been for work. I really like Accelerade's 4-1 carb/protein mix. I don't think my body likes too much of the sugary gel stuff, and I try to use it only to top off what I've already eaten. Hope this helps.

[GLC1968]

I'm no expert, but my guess is that you are eating too much simple sugar for that ride and like someone else said, your body doesn't quite know what to do with the surplus.

For a ride of that length, I'll normally drink only water and I'll go through a pack of shot blocks (I like to eat a few every 30 minutes or so). I believe a bag of shot blocks is equivalent to 2 gels or so. Anything more than that, and I find it's too much for me. In fact, I *think* that this may be why I too was having mid-ride slumps last summer. It only happened to me on much longer rides (80 to 100 miles) but I would lose all oomph at about mile 65 or so only to get it back at mile 75. Looking back, I think I was eating too much simple sugar, too soon into the ride. I'll be curious to see if spacing it out better works for me this summer (we are only doing shorter rides this season...tops of about 50 miles). I'm learning what works for me as time goes on.

It's also worth pointing out that I start every ride with a good meal/breakfast of approximately 40% carb, 40% protien and 20% fat about a hour or 2 ahead. If I choose complex carbs, this will hold me well into the first hour of the ride. I follow each ride immediately with a 4:1 carb to protien ratio snack (usually a Cliff bar) which helps replentish my stores and keeps me from wanting to eat everything in site about 30 min later. ;)