gearing and climbing-help

[lacyliz]

Hi All,

I'm a new rider (began May 06)- started out with a Giant Sedona, moved to an FCR3(cross) and just got a Giant TCRw road bike (geometry for women). the guys at my LBS said that I'm definitely strong enough for the gearing (though they've never ridden with me)- Its a compact 34/50 and the cassette is a 12-25. My FCR was a triple 30-42-52 with an 11-28 on the rear. When I compared the gear ratios I am losing about the last 2 granny gears with the new TCR. Oh- the new TCR is much lighter than the FCR (23lbs vs. 18.3).

My questions is this- I am not a very strong climber - I dread steep hills (I live on a steep hill-live in the Catskills) :eek: - I get up a moderately steep hill very slowly (maybe 6-7mph) and I can feel it in my back. Would you recommend that I just practice more on hills or have the rear cassette changed to a 12-27 (It would give me 1 lower gear that's almost as low as a 30/27-if I had a triple).

Thanks for your help- I am new and don't know if the guys at the shop know about women and hill climbing.

[LadyinWhite]

New Paltz is gorgeous. I've never ridden there but seeing your post makes me think.. hmmmm.. I should take the Girl up there!

I have a triple so I'll let someone with a double answer your question, just wanted to give you a shout because I just love the NP area.

[HillSlugger]

You should be able to go to a 12-27 without having to change out anything else. I did that with my road bike even though I do have a triple. I feel it's made a world of difference. I recommend it.

[Kimmyt]

Have you ridden that hill with the switchback up by the cliffs!?!?! :eek:

Every time I drive up that, I think how awful (and fulfilling) it would be to ride up it... my car has trouble going up that sucker!

K.

[Kalidurga]

- I get up a moderately steep hill very slowly (maybe 6-7mph) and I can feel it in my back.

My first question on reading this is: Have you been fitted on your bike? If you're feeling it in your back, I'd wonder if your crank/saddle position is off, and therefore putting you in a position that's stressing your back.

Also, are you using clipless pedals? When I switched to clipless, I was amazed at how much more my hamstrings and glutes were put to use in climbing.

Definitely do a search of hill climbing in the forum. There have been a few good threads on not only gearing, but also on proper position for climbing. All other things considered, if you're like me then you just need more practice :rolleyes:

[Veronica]

I don't know what the Catskills are like, but I do know that for our steep hills and mountains I'm very thankful for my 11 - 34 with my double. And so are my knees.

V.

[lacyliz]

Thanks everyone for your speedy replies. Sounds like I may need BOTH to practice more and change in to a 12-27... even if just for the psychological aspect of knowing I have one more lower gear.

Yes- I am using clipless pedals and they definitely help.

New Paltz, NY is beautiful - miles of apple orchards and farmland- and the Mohonk Mountain Preserve. Come check it out sometime - it's fabulous riding.

I'll check out the climbing threads as well! Liz :)

[HillSlugger]

I'll check out the climbing threads as well! Liz :)

The Gunks are great for climbing.

[Batbike]

here's my 2 cents worth ... based on my experience: I started with a 52/42/30 triple up front, 12-25 back, and got to the point of not using the small chainring much, so changed to a double and a 12-27. I eventually changed bikes and because I could not get a 12-27 with my new set-up, I changed to a 13-26 (still standard 53/39 on front). YES, I struggle on really steep grades ... and if the grade is too steep, I simply don't ride it. However, there are certain rides I would like to go on, but if I did them, I know I would have to change my front to a compact -- 50/34 and maybe change my back to a 13-39.

So, if your hills are rideable with your triple and you just want to ride them faster, I say keep riding them ... you will only get stronger. If you feel a slightly easier gear will help you get up the hills, not necessarily faster, but with less overall body strain, than I say change your rear cassette to a 12-27 -- an inexpensive alternative to a knee saving, heart saving, body saving problem. If you struggle to get up the hills altogether or would like to ride steeper grades and need lower gearing, than consider a compact 50/34, keeping your 12-25 in the back. ...just my 2 cents :)

[Batbike]

(reference above message) meant a 13-29 in back with compact -- sorry.

[lacyliz]

Thanks, BatBike- makes a lot of sense. I think what I'm going to do after hearing from you-all is to ride a bunch more on the new set-up and see how it goes. I'll then know better (trying some new sets of hills/roads that I want to be able to do) if I should keep what I have and practice more or swap the cassette for either a 12-27 or 13-29, like you say. I'm compelled to improve at the hills or at least learn to like the challenge of a steeper hill. I just LOVE to be out on the road. Mornings, especially - Feels like flying...

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

My questions is this- I am not a very strong climber - I dread steep hills (I live on a steep hill-live in the Catskills) :eek: - I get up a moderately steep hill very slowly (maybe 6-7mph) and I can feel it in my back.

When I climb very STEEP hills I sometimes only go 3-4 mph, so 6-7mph seems like nothing to be ashamed of to me! :cool: If you have not ridden very many miles a week you may well feel the climbing in your back and legs until you build up stronger muscles. It took me 6 months of riding 40-100 miles per week to not get too sore anymore after hilly 2 hour rides.
We have some REALLY steep hills here. We put a front triple 24/36/46 and a cassette of 13-34 on my 29 lb.steel road bike. Works pretty well.

By the way, I lived in NewPaltz many years ago (owned an ice cream parlor there briefly in a former life), and then my younger daughter went to SUNY NP, so I visited there a lot too up until a couple years ago. (Now she's getting her masters in UMASS Dartmouth.) Are you in school there? :)

[salsabike]

Hey, I went to NP my first two years of college! It is a really nice area.

If you're feeling hill climbing in your back, it may indeed be a fit issue---that's how I found out my top tube was too long, by using my back too much to get up a hill.

[lacyliz]

Lisa- thanks for the encouragement about the steeper hills. New Paltz is beautiful but I'm not in school anymore by a long stretch :) I'm 43 - so I'm done with all that now thank God.

salsa- yeah, I'm going to ask my LBS about the back and the bike fit as you and a few people suggested. I suspect, as Lisa suggested, that it may be about logging in more miles and building up the legs. In season I had been logging in about 50-60 miles per week. My goal this year is to log in more like 75-100. The lower back strain is only when I climb up the steepest parts of a hill. Otherwise I'm comfy cozy on the bike.

It's so great to have a forum like this - I'm loving it - thanks everyone for being there...

[Crankin]

Off topic here, but Lisa S. H., what is your daughter studying at UMass Dartmouth? You should stop by if you are visiting your daughter. We could do some nice riding when the weather gets warmer. Seriously, we have plenty of room and a nice pond for cooling off after a ride.
My son went to UMass Amherst and he got a great education for a reasonable price.

Robyn

[Gowest]

My two cents is to get the 12/27 cassette and use it if you need it, and keep the 25 for more rolling rides or racing. I recently went from a triple to a double and have an 11/26 SRAM on the rear. We have lots of steep hills surrounding us - so I rarely have a ride that is all rolling - matter of fact - you have to try really hard to get a totally rolling ride around here!! I like having the 11/26 no matter how strong of a rider you might be - sometimes you hit a steep grade and rather than "wrestle" your bike up - with the lower gear you can keep your momentum and cadence going - your technique suffers less and you don't hurt yourself!! If you can - get another wheel and mount the other cassette on it - then it is a quick change between the two cassettes! For me - I just kept my triple Trek and use it for really really long hilly stuff like the Assault on Mount Mitchell kinda hilly and long.

Debi (also a native New York Stater)

Anyone from NY done the Highlander 100 out of Bristol??? I am thinking of going up this year.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Off topic here, but Lisa S. H., what is your daughter studying at UMass Dartmouth? You should stop by if you are visiting your daughter. We could do some nice riding when the weather gets warmer. Seriously, we have plenty of room and a nice pond for cooling off after a ride.
My son went to UMass Amherst and he got a great education for a reasonable price.

Robyn

Thanks Robyn!
My daughter is getting her masters in fine art- specifically: metal work and jewelry design. She's currently teaching a metals course there. She lives next door in New Bedford.
Will keep you in mind for bike visits! :) Plus same goes for you if you ever need to go to PittsfieldMA, WilliamstownMA, AlbanyNY, etc. area.

[anakiwa]

I recently went through a similar decision ordering a bike. There are a ton of hills where I live- I actually love going up hills, but I don't like having to struggle up them in a gear that's too hard. I ultimately decided that while most of the time I would be fine with a compact (34-50), I wanted to keep the versatility of a triple.

How often do you use your lower gears? If you rely on the lower gears a lot, I'd be worried about giving them up (even as I've gotten stronger, there are still days when I'm tired or just not up to pushing things).

[lacyliz]

Hi everyone,

I just ordered my new 12-27 to swap out for the 12-25, keeping my 34/50 compact in the front. i think that should do it for me. I didn't use the 2 lowest gears much in my bike with the triple - unless it was extremely steep for me. So the combination of the compact and the new 12-27 gives me all but the absolute last gear (I checked on the popular gear ratio sites as I read on threads here) - and I really am not losing the highest gears in this trade so speed should be OK. I'll have it put on over the weekend.

Now I'll just have the hard work of practice pactice practice and getting stronger. I can't wait...today here in the Catskills it was actually 45 (10 F last week)- spring is here as far as I'm concerned. I start riding as soon as the light is here and its 35 or above (40 if its windy)...Yahooooo :D

Thanks everybody!

[equus123]

haha this thread reminds me of a race i did last year. it was my 3rd lifetime race (in my first year racing). so i hear about this hard 5.5 mi TT up in the NW corner of New Jersey so i figure i'll do it because "i'm gonna be a good climber" says everybody.

so i drive up there and the state park entrance is at the top of the mountain with respect to the road. i pull in, register, get my number, and ask where the start is. they tell me to go back out of the park, make a right and go to the bottom of the mountain. i'm like okaaaaay.

i drive down the other side of the mountain that i hadn't driven on the way there. ....do the whole warmup thing. i run into a few people i know and we chat a bit. they mention stuff about gearing and i'm like "yeah. we'll see how this goes with my 11-23 because the registration says a 'suggested 25'. everybody just kind of smiles (kindly) or laughs out loud that i'm gonna die.

the start line is essentially at the base of the mountain off of route 23, a double-lane highway. it gets to be my turn, i start, and let me tell you my experience on that ride....

so at the moment i am crying and ready to stop, turn around, and leave - i look down at my computer. 1:30 into the race. 1 MINUTE 30 SECONDS into the race. i figured "eh. it's only 5.5 mi. can't be TOO bad." holy crap did i swallow my words on that one. to top it all off in the parking lot before the start, i could have SWORN i heard my teammate say "once you turn into the park it's not the steepest part. you'll do fine". yeah, in hindsight my brain must have subsconsciously added that little "not" into her sentence.

as i make my way to the crest of the road, i turn into the park and make an immediate right. as i turn my head a little to look at the road, all i see is the pavement going diagonally up to my right. my eyes bug out and i look up real quick to see if it ever ends. i go "holy ****!" and hit a series of 3 rollers where you're crawling up it at 6 mph and flying down the other side at 36 mph. after the rollers come a part where you climb - hairpin turn slightly flatter - bam! it gets steeper - turn - steeper - flattens a little and then the finish line is at the top of this last hill that flattens out into a parking lot. a parking lot at the highest point in New Jersey and the tippy top of this mountain.

there have bee numerous moments throughout this race where i'm either crying and/or want to stop. i make it all the way to this ridiculous climb that gets steeper at each bend. my arms are BURNING from throwing my bike back and forth because i was in my 23 probably 30 seconds into the race. the road was getting too steep for me to ride. as i'm standing climbing, i look down and my cadence is 43 or 46. i didn't even know a bike could still be upright with a cadence (and speed) that slow. i had been averaging around 60 rpms for the race thus far. my legs are DONE, i can't breathe, by this time its hot as hell outside, my heart is going a million miles an hour. i can't do it.

i get off my bike and walk the f***ing thing up the climb. as i'm looking upwards i can see the finish line. ugh, you have no idea how pissed i was. but you know what made it worse? the road was so steep that i couldn't get back on until a slight drop in the pitch. i get back on my bike and power up the last few hundred feet to the line. i finished in 32:32 and actually ended up beating someone.

i'm slobbering, i STILL can't breathe, my heart is STILL racing, i haven't had saliva in my mouth since the start. i stop for a minute and think. oh crap! my car (and everybody else) is AT THE START. aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh i have to ride all the way back!!!!! yes, 99.99% of this race is downhill but still. i have no bottles, no food, no nothing - just me and my bike.

as i'm turning out of the park to go back down to the start on Rt. 23 again, the road was so steep that i was braking the whole way down going 25-30 mph. my friend said he got up to 50 going back down. HELL NO.

so that was the 3rd race of my life. after that experience i learned to have the appropriate cassette for a race. i will never make THAT mistake again! lol

here's a picture of the race for reference (not me or anyone i know in the picture)
http://www.skylandscycling.com/tviews/galleryhphc06/images/hphc062675.jpg

[Trekhawk]

so that was the 3rd race of my life. after that experience i learned to have the appropriate cassette for a race. i will never make THAT mistake again! lol



Love the race report. Sounds like you did pretty good even with the wrong cassette.:)

[equus123]

hahaha yeah. i was very proud of myself for surviving and finishing. if i had known what the course actually was - there was prob no way i would have done the race. :p