Buy wheels or Build wheels?

[mudmucker]

Ok. I have a fistful of questions here. I’ve been thinking about upgrading my wheelset. I “think” I want a lightweight climbing wheel. I usually ride anywhere between 25 to 60 miles per ride, and I have a lot of hills, lower grades around 6-8% with 10-12% grades spiked in there.

1. I haven’t looked around too much yet and I’m not clear on which wheels out there are suitable for what kind of riding. The Ksyrium ES certainly looks good but I won’t spend that kind of money. Then there are the more reasonably priced but still expensive Ksyrium Elites which I like (I’ll pay up to $500). Aren’t these more aerodynamic wheels though – although they may give a nice ride they don’t really seem suitable for an area with a lot of hills?

Any of you have experience or comments on these wheels. I’ve read the thread here http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=11971&highlight=build+wheels
Any other recommendations to start with?

2. Well, then, I could also get some custom wheels built. Any time I hear the word “custom” I hear the cash register getting louder. Then in a post from the thread above, says how this person got some custom wheels built for much less than retail values and got exactly what she wanted. For any of you MA gals reading this – any recommendations of good wheel builders near North Central MA? I haven’t visited my favorite LBS yet to ask (which is GearWorks Cyclery in Fitchburg). I think most of the MA TE folks are mostly around the Metro-West area. I’ll certainly travel east if I need to.

3. Then, I’ve been playing around with the idea of building my own. I would be totally clueless about it. I do stuff like that a lot; teach myself something that I know nothing about. The journey is half the fun and I’d certainly learn a lot. I’ve only slightly done a bit of research on this. I’ve visited a couple of online sites including Sheldon’s. Is there a favorite site or book that someone might recommend? Is this something where I should take a class (which could potentially cost a fifth to 25% of the wheelset)? Some of the web sites on building are pretty detailed and informative. I would certainly have to be careful on choosing the appropriate parts for the kind of material for the kind of wheel and what kind of lacing pattern for the kind of ride I want and do. I haven't even come up with succinct questions to ask yet.

For people with experience, is there a more favored reputable manufacturer out there? If I buy parts, should I stay with the same vendor/manufacturer or does it matter if I mix it up?

BUT:

Is the kind of wheel I want too tech-y for a beginner? Are there enough checks and balances in the procedure to be confident the wheel is built correctly and is safe? Would I have to bring it somewhere to get my work checked (which sort of defeats the purpose)?

Is this really cost effective? I’d have to invest in some tools; trueing stand, tensiometer, a dish stick (?). This in combination with the materials I’d need to purchase – well, it may exceed the cost of a purchased wheelset.

4. Lastly, I usually put on 5 or 6 lbs during the winter. I easily whittle this off down to a "suitable for me" riding weight when the season opens up. I also usually incorporate hill interval riding (hills everywhere, I can’t avoid it) for those evenings in the summer when I only have an hour to ride. Maybe, I just drop those 6 lbs, do my intervals and bam, there’s my new lightweight set of climbing wheels that I “think” I want.

[mimitabby]

Read Peter White's website at www.peterwhitecycles.com/

[Kathi]

http://www.serotta.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16731

Here's the discussion that I had on the Serotta Forum about handbuilt wheels for my new Serotta. It was because of the feedback from this thread that I decided to have Jeremy build my wheels.

A little background, my LBS built me 2 sets of Mavic Open Pros with 36 spokes. Waayyy overbuilt for a 105lb rider. Because of my experience with my local LBS and doing a little research I wanted a wheelbuilder that was sensitive to my needs, which Jeremy was.

The cost of the wheels came out lower than the pre-built Elans that my LBS recommended to me.

The lacing on the wheels is standard so if I need them trued anyone can do it. Jeremy also installed the Veloplugs as mentioned on the other thread. He is the distributor for tune hubs so I can go back to him if I have a problem with the hub.

On the thread there is another wheelbuilder who has a very good reputation with the Serotta forum members. I believe he is in the east.

I absolutely love these wheels.

Also, I recommend you post your questions on the Serotta forum. It is a very knowledgeable group.

[DebW]

I've been building wheels since the 70s. Learned when I worked in a shop and there was no such thing as pre-built or factor-made wheels. If a customer bent a rim, we simply cut out the spokes and relaced it with a new rim. A lacing pattern is easy to learn from a book. Tensioning and dishing properly is something that's learned from experience. I'd definitely suggest a
tensionometer (http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=16&item=TM%2D1) if you decide to build your own with little experience. And you'd need a truing stand and dish tool. Not sure how cost effective it would be for a single set of wheels (cheap truing stands are fine if you have a dish tool also). I think it's doable for a beginner if you're willing to spend time studying the method. If you're close to Wayland, MA I'd be willing to help you out.

This wheelbuilding book (http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/) is available for downloading for a small cost and is quite good.

[roadfix]

Although not cost effective, I would build my own set of wheels when I need to lace up a particular hub/rim combo.....which is usually the case when I find a nice set of hubs or rims on Ebay, for instance. Otherwise, I buy machine laced wheelsets on special and retension them myself after putting like a couple of hundred miles on them. Cost wise, you can't beat some of these Shimano based machine built wheelsets you find on special, mostly through on-line dealers. I don't find anything wrong with them.

[Kathi]

I went with handbuilt because I wanted a wheelset that would give me a compliant ride, was lightweight and built appropriately for a 105 lb rider. Besides, I was building my dream bike and I wanted the nicest wheels I could get. The set weighs 1185 grams.

My SO has Shimano 7700 wheels on his IF, he does not like them and just received his new wheelset from Jeremy. He was able to demo the Krysiums and liked them but chose to go with handbuilt instead.

I use 650c wheels and I read somewhere that a 650c wheelset built the same as a 700c wheelset was 25% stiffer. So I didn't trust that I could get a wheelset from a company that would meet my small persons needs. Even Lennard Zinn agreed that I should use a wheelbuilder instead of a stock wheel! :D

[mudmucker]

Kathi - Lots of great dialog and perspectives with your TE postings and on Serotta. I'm leaning towards custom now as opposed to just outright buying. I still really need to get out there and become familiar with rims and hubs and such as I'm starting from zero.

And thank you Mimi and Roadfix.

But then, the tech-y curious side of me is still interested in building my own. Which leads me to DebW:

If you're close to Wayland, MA I'd be willing to help you out.

This is very generous of you. I might take you up on that. Again, I want to get familiar with stuff, get some questions and answers in order. As for products, I need to discern what is "good", what is "suitable". I don't live close to anything but I've resigned myself to that notion. I commute to Lowell everyday for work (at least I get in under an hour at 50 min) - so travelling is not an issue since I usually have to do that for anywhere I want to go. I bought and downloaded the wheelbuilding book you recommended. GREAT book. Very clear and well written. Even if I don't build my own wheels it is a great read in terms of understanding this part of the bike and for maintenance.

[DebW]

Broadway Bicycle School in Cambridge has wheelbuilding classes. 4 classes, 2 hours each. Prior truing experience is necessary. Nothing on their schedule now, but something to keep in mind.

mudmucker, I've got two sets of wheels to build this spring. An opportunity for a lesson if you want to spend a couple hours with me while I'm building, and try some wheelbuilding tools.

[indysteel]

Mudmucker, I'm the OP of the thread that you included in your initial question. I can't help you with the wheelbuilding; that was beyond my aspirations but hat's off to you for giving it a try if you go that route. I would be a great skill to have, although I will tell you that the price my builder charged for building the wheels was really, really minor. It's the components that will set you back.

Like Kathi, I was interested in having wheels built specifically for my size (115 pounds). I was looking for a good all-around wheel rather than a climbing wheel, but I assume that you'd like your wheels to be stiff but very light weight. A good wheelsmith will be able recommend some builds for you. Depending on your price range, you will likely have any number of options. You might check out the website www.weightweenies.com or www.roadbikereview.com for some suggested builds.

I preferred having my wheels built by a dedicated wheelsmith rather than at an LBS. I decided on Ligero Wheelworks because I'd read so many positive posts about the company and the builder--Troy Watson--on various cycling forums. There were a handful of other names that came up a lot--Eric Ergott comes to mind--too. I was pleased with Troy's services. I have not, however, tested the wheels out yet because the weather has been awful since I got them. My LBS was impressed with them though. :)

Here's a link to Troy's website: http://www.ligerowheels.com/

Good luck!

Kate

[mudmucker]

Well, it’s been close to a year since my initial post. Some people had PM’d a while back asking what if anything became of this. I said I went the route of wheelbuilding, it was in progress, and that I’d post pictures when I was done. The front wheel is built. One down, one to go.

See this link for more detailed pictures and narrative. http://good-times.webshots.com/album/562286905oyplvC

Remember to scroll down under the picture if you want to read more.

This whole thing was really fun, especially since I was clueless as of last year’s first post. I did a lot of homework and it took a long time for me to decide which rims and hubs I wanted, naturally dictated by what kind of biking I did and cost. But that was part of the fun. I settled on Velocity Aerohead rims and White Industry H1 hubs with Wheelsmith double butted 2.0/1.7 spokes. I went on a couple of wheelbuilder sites and this combination as I found out halfway through my decision, is a pretty common build. I am using Veloplugs instead of rim tape based on some conversations within links of this thread. I let the project rest through the summer and didn’t order parts until November. I ended up building a homemade truing stand and dish stick (see web link photos) based on Roger Mussen’s Wheelbuilding book. The set up with building a homemade truing stand was intentionally part of the journey and half the fun. To try and come up with homemade tools that will do a sufficient job at zero dollars, and use things I already had. The fun part also was that I didn’t know how that part would play out and I just went along with it as it happened.

My friends, biking and non-biking, were enthusiastic and so that was fun too. Several of the non-biking friends didn’t understand what I was doing so I just said that I was re-creating the wheel.

I used Roger M’s and Sheldon’s guides for lacing and truing and dishing, etc. None of that was very difficult. The most important things is to pay attention to what you are doing when you are doing it. I stayed with a traditional cross pattern for my first wheel and kept away from radial spoking or bladed spokes. The 2x pattern is fine as I am not a heavy person. I was able to get lateral truing to 0.25 mm due to an insanely accurate Starrett dial gauge that I borrowed from a friend. That gauge wasn't necessary but I was just curious. I got dish to within 1 mm and radial truing to less than 1 mm, all acceptable tolerances. This is shown all on the weblink. I did invest in a tensionmeter which was essential for me at least, to get the spokes to the proper tension and evenly. I can’t play the harp on spokes like some of these guys can.

Someone mentioned that the cost of the components basically comprised the cost of the wheel. That’s true. For not much more, I could’ve let a wheelbuilder finish the job but that wasn’t the point.

Right now they might look good, but I'm very interested if they will hold true after the first 200 miles. That will be the real test of a well-built wheel.

The next thing I want to do is get a new frameset and build a bike up with the components I want.

I'm not sure how to place text between the photos so I'll list here:

1. initial construction of homemade truing stand
2. truing stand painted and with old wheel
3. wheel parts
4. the leading spokes are in
5. bringing the wheel up to tension

[DebW]

Wonderful job!! Glad you had fun building, too. You really went all out, reading, learning, building a jig, calibrating tolerances. Now you'll enjoy your wheels in a new way, knowing that they are strong and light and build to your specs and built by you.

[indysteel]

Wow, that's really cool. I'm so impressed. I'm a big believer in handbuilts--especially for female riders because a lot of factory wheelsets are more wheel than we often need.

I hope you like the wheels. Minus the spokes, that's the build that I have, inlcuding the Veloplugs.

[Melalvai]

I loved building a wheel and I'm really proud of it. My bike though got pretty snooty because SHE has a hand-built wheel, and everyone else in the bike shelter at work is inferior.

I told my husband "It was fun, and pretty easy!" and he replied, "So easy a caveman could do it?" In fact, I got a lot of caveman-type jokes when I boasted "I built a wheel!"
:p

[ehirsch83]

I would also check out http://williamscycling.com/ if you decide to buy an already built set.

Great wheels for the money!

[mudmucker]

I listened to alot of the posts here... Indy, Kathi. Deb, you were the one to recommend Roger's wheelbuilding book and it helped obviously with building the tools. Not to mention, watching you build your wheel last April and relating methodology was helpful. Although that was around 9 months ago I remembered most of it. The manuals were great for refreshing myself with some of the details.

Lookin' for that frameset now.

Don't know if my bike will become snooty just yet. As I said, we'll see what happens with the first coupla hundred miles.

[DebW]

If it takes a bit of retruing after the first 100 miles or so, don't think that your build was less than good. The pros try to avoid that so people aren't bringing their wheels back and complaining. But if it's YOUR wheel, then YOU can retrue it wheneve it needs it. Spokes will seat on the first ride (you may hear some pinging noises) and any small amount of spoke twist will come out. All perfectly normal.

[smilingcat]

Congratulation and OMG build your own stand too.

I'm sure your wheel wills stay true. Enjoy your ride and nothing snooty about hand built wheels.

smilingcat

[KnottedYet]

Oooh, I wanna learn how to do that! That is so cool!

And you even built your own stand!

Wow!

[RoadRaven]

Well, have shown this impressive feat to the lads in the house and we are all well impressed.
In our opinion building a good wheel is much more difficult than building the frame.
Thank you for all the pix, the photos of the true-ing stand have sparked a desire in the house to build some of our own wheels.
Well done you :)

[mudmucker]

Thanks you guys.

I've wanted to build a bike, and as I said before now I want to find a frame and build it. But smilingcat, you are partial inspiration. Those bikes you built last year are the cat's meow. Pun intended.

My mother always used to use that saying.

[Popoki_Nui]

:eek::eek::eek: GREAT job! That is really impressive. :)

[mudmucker]

Well, after all this time, I finally built the rear wheel of my wheelbuild and finished up the final truing this morning. I had finished the front one in Feb.

Wheeeee !! So today I took them out on their maiden voyage. I half expected to be crumpled by the roadside about 3 miles from the house. No, just kidding. There were enough checks and balances. Just some pinging in the first half mile or so, and up the first hill when I stood on the pedals. Still some serious frost heaves around.

Wheeee ! I LOVE THEM. My test ride was short, about 15 miles. They're beautiful and rode nice. They came out better than I ever thought they could. I am so happy and excited that they came out as well as they did, especially for my first build. Will check them in 100 miles or so.

The front one weighed in at 685 g and the rear one at 860 g. Post #10 has a link to all the pictures.

Photo1 = the happy couple
Photo2 = old wheels, 105 hubs, Mavic Open Sport rims
Photo 3 = new wheels, H1 White Industry hubs, Velocity Aerohead front and Aerohead OC rear.

Guess this thread is done.

[DebW]

:D :D :D :D

I'm happy for you and your new wheels.

[jobob]

Guess this thread is done.

Except for the congratulations. :cool: Very, very nicely done.

[DebW]

I learned that a professional mechanic should be able to build a wheel in an hour. That's my next goal, getting my wheelbuild time down from 2 hours to 1 hour. The world record for wheelbuilding is held by a woman from Seattle: 8 minutes.

[ridebikeme]

Congradualtions on your new wheels!

Deb, pretty intersting about the world record for wheel building... does that mean that wheel was round and true? Definitely hard to believe, but an accomplishment in itself. Like you, I have been building wheels for many years, and in reality just finished one about 15 minutes ago. Depending on the brand of rim, ( they definitely vary) it normally takes me between 45-60 minutes, Although I have to admit that I've also spent 90 minutes HA!

Thanks for the info!:)

[DebW]

Congradualtions on your new wheels!

Deb, pretty intersting about the world record for wheel building... does that mean that wheel was round and true? Definitely hard to believe, but an accomplishment in itself.

Apparently. Round, true, and properly tesioned in 8 minutes.

[mudmucker]

That's impressive. Rear wheel?

Hey, you guys are speedy. I, cough, cough, wanted to savor my experience for hours. Eight minutes was about the time it took for me to go get the truing stand to put on the table, gather the hubs, spokes, rim, tools, get my coffee, my reading glasses...

[lph]

Jsut had to bring this lovely thread out of the past. Kudos, mudmucker! And lovely photos.

[mudmucker]

I see that my link to the photos showing the entire process does not work anymore.

Here's a re-established link: http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2197332050102221940lQflwo

I also see that you started a new thread. I'll post the link there too. I have text that starts above the photo - to finish reading you have to scroll down to read below the photo.