unreasonable goals

[stacie]

My friend J stumbled across info on the Aids Lifecycle ride about a month ago. He asked if I was interested and I told him no way. I wasn't prepared physically or financially for something like that the first week of June. He has since decided to do it. He's created a blog and started collecting the money. AND, looking to purchase a bike. Yesterday, I told him that I thought this was an unreasonable goal and he should pick something closer to home and with more reasonable mileage. He hasn't even ridden a bike and he's planning to cross the country and ride 575 miles in 7 days. I see this all the time and I believe inexperienced riders put themselves and others at risk when they set out on these types of adventures unprepared. Another friend bought a bike a few weeks before the MS 150 in order to do it. Overtired and undertrained, he did crash and take a few others down with him. Last night J's mom took my indoor cycling class. Btw, J tried about a month ago and was unable to complete a class. J's mom said they watched an infomercial about the ride and it was very encouraging for people who were not experienced. Basically, I'm the only naysayer. I personally believe J sets unattainable goals and focuses on the excitement rather than addressing the fact that he needs to start a basic fitness program. Friends and family cheer him on and he's just putting on the pounds and not really accomplishing anything except a distraction from the real issue. I'm now the bad guy for not supporting him.

[Veronica]

I'm with you. He doesn't even own a bike yet? Yeah, that's crazy. What if he hates riding?

V.

[Bad JuJu]

Right. And the fact that he couldn't finish the spinning class suggests not only that he's not in shape for a long ride, but also that he has no idea how to pace himself. Sounds like a recipe for...maybe not disaster, but certainly for failure.

[Kimmyt]

OTOH, maybe he will find out he really loves cycling and found the encouragement in this AIDS ride (which I'm assuming is a supported ride) to do something he never thought he could do.

You've told him what you thought, and he didn't listen. Is he your friend?

Sometimes we just have to sit by and let our friends do what they want and offer support if they fail. Not 'I told you so's. They are adults after all.

Yes, 575 miles in 7 days is a lot, especially for someone who just bought a bike and has never cycled before. It sounds near impossible to me, and I have a feeling he'll realize this on about Day 1 of the ride, but he'll be realizing this FOR HIMSELF and not with someone telling him what he can't do (everytime someone tells me what I can't do, I know that I am that much more determined to do it). But also keep in mind that there are people out there that just decide to do something, and surprisingly enough, do it.

Why don't you use your experience to try and help your friend prepare for this, go on some training rides with him, instead of simply naysaying him.

[Batbike]

I believe that encouraging your friend will do more than "naysaying". Maybe, just maybe, they will finish the ride and it will change their life because they accomplished a goal; maybe they will ride only half way and it will change their life because they worked toward a goal; and maybe they will plan for the ride and it will change their life because they now have new goals and dreams yet to accomplish. To me, cycling is more than about riding the bike, it is life-altering, and as cyclists, we need to support each other by help and encouragement.

A personal story: Way back when, over 20 years ago, I was in college and owned a tour bike. I never really rode it, except sporadically. In fact, during my last year of school it was stored in my parent's house 100's of miles away! Right before graduation a friend of mine, who grew-up in New Orleans, asked me if I would ride my bike with him, from Georgia, to visit his mom in New Orleans --he had no other way to get home but with his bike and did not want to ride alone. I said "yes". So, after graduation I picked-up my dusty bike and rode it, full gear and no training, to New Orleans. It took a week and we rode through 5 states to get there. NOT saying is a wise idea, but I did it -- mind over matter, or just the stupidity of youth, but I did it. I will never forget the experience. It changed my life -- not immediately, but long-term, and in so many many ways!!! So, you JUST NEVER KNOW ... a bike can do wonderful things to people, especially when they least expect it!

[KnottedYet]

And there is always the option of volunteering to crew the ALC. There are tons of volunteer positions, crew can fundraise, and crew gets to participate just as much as the riders do. (they just don't ride, but the crew is equally important. ALC wouldn't happen without crew!)

If he finds that physically he just can't do the ride by June, would he be willing to contact a volunteer co-ordinator?

[Trek420]

This year is my 3rd time riding, 5th time participating (crewed one year, led or I should say swept training rides another). Yes, it is an impossible goal and I've done it twice.

I gotta go to work right now so I'll just vote:

Encourage him but this should be a long term goal.

Can he train, fundraise if he wants to but crew this year and ride next?

His goal should be to do at least one or more centuries this year, maybe even one of the other AIDS rides, MS 150 etc. Come crew with us, it's much harder than riding anyway :) :D :rolleyes: and do the long ride NEXT year.

[Veronica]

So I'm doing a lot of inferring here. But here's what I see.

Guy tries a spin class, can't make it through it. Has he been back in the month since he tried it? How dedicated to completing the AIDS ride is he, if he hasn't been back to the spin class that will help get him in shape to do the AIDS ride?

I'm all for cheering on people who are trying something new and are pushing themselves to excel. But as I'm always telling my friends and family. You don't wake up one morning and go out and ride 200 miles. Long distance riding takes training. Frankly I'm hearing wishful thinking, pie in the sky...hmmmm... PIE!

V.

[Kimmyt]

I'm not saying tell him that he can do it if you don't think he can. I'm saying support his decision to do it, because he is your friend. SHe's already told him (and his mom, and everyone on the internet) what she thinks of his goal. He is obviously going to do this ride, with or without her support.

Being a friend sometimes means supporting someone in decisions that you don't necessarily agree with.

K.

[Artisan]

I really like what Batbike said in her first paragraph about encouraging your friend, perhaps it will change his life.

I do think you being an experienced rider could mentor him and help prep him as much as possible. It does seem like the odds are against him that he would be able to finish it, but stranger things have happened.

[DeniseGoldberg]

Being a friend sometimes means supporting someone in decisions that you don't necessarily agree with.
That's true - but being a friend also means helping him focus on reality. A conversation on what type of effort is involved is worth having. So yes, support his decision, but first try to make him understand what will be involved.

Even though the AIDS ride is a supported ride, that's serious distance multiple days in a row - and I would be very surprised if the intent of the ride organizers is to provide SAG support to riders who aren't prepared for the ride.

And that ride is in early June, only 3 1/2 months away.

Stacie -
Do you and your friend live where it is reasonable to ride (to train) long distances starting now? I know that here in the northeast my bike rides are limited to weekends and to short rides due to the lack of daylight and cold temperatures.

Reality...

--- Denise

[Bad JuJu]

I agree that encouragement can help people do apparently miraculous things sometimes. But inappropriate encouragement can also lead people to do things they're not prepared for. The trick is encourage our friends to challenge themselves without sending them off to hurt themselves.

As an addendum to Denise's idea about training, is it possible to just take your friend out for a longish ride or two? If he's untrained, just a 30-40-mile ride may be enough to show him the difficulty of what he's planning to get himself into. If he gets to mile 30 or 40 and is tapped out, you can maybe gently bring up the idea of having to do that same thing times 2 (and then some!) for 7 days in a row. OTOH, if he goes the distance (and can do it again the next day) and still feels excited about doing the AIDS ride, maybe he does have a shot.

[Eden]

I'm going to be devil's advocate here and say that if this fellow is in reasonable physical shape his goal is not impossible at all. It may not be the most comfortable trip for him, but it likely won't kill him either. Hey he's got 3 months to do some preparing still.

When I was just a kid, about 11 or 12, my mom decided she wanted to try some loaded bicycle touring, the end goal, a week long ride in Nova Scotia. Our "training" consisted of a some weekend rides and a few overnight weekend tours, more as an equipment shakedown. Our distances were not as long as the LifeCycle tour, but hey, I was 12, I was riding a heavy Sears, steel, kids bike and I was carrying clothes, camping gear, etc. When I was in college my husband and I used to go out and do loaded touring without training for it. We did distancces as long as 90 miles with fully loaded bikes. The only trick was to take it slow, plenty of seeing the sights, plenty of rest breaks.

If your friend really wants to do it and gets out and rides his new bike during the next 3 months I see no reason why he can't do the trip and have fun.

[CR400]

I guess it is more important to tell him how you feel about it, then leave the choice up to him. After that whatever he chooses be there for him as support. That seems like a big goal but then again maybe not. It really comes down to how motivated the person is. As far as the fact he has never completed a spin class is not a true marker of a person's cycling fitness. I had ridden a century and many shorter long rides, but when it came to my first spin class I didn't make it. Spin instructors have got to admit they put a lot of worthless exercises in classes that don't carry over to what people do on a bike. Sometimes the only similarity is the fact you are pedaling.

[stacie]

Yes, he is my friend. That is why I am struggling with this. I felt obligated to tell him how I felt. I did not and still do not feel that it is reasonable for a person who has never ridden and has no fitness base to attempt this. I know it probably hurt him a bit that I don't "believe" in him. But, now I have a clear conscious as he spends his savings on plane fare for this event.
Yes, I will give him advice on buying a bike and safety on the road. He can start riding as soon as he buys a bike. If I were taller, I'd give him one of mine. But as for training, my training time is the only thing that I have that I' m not sharing.
Thanks for all your input. I'm confident that I did the right thing by stating my opinion. I hope now he'll go and prove me wrong.

[Veronica]

My comment about the spin class was just about his motivation. You can't do a multi day ride if you're not fit and from the original post, I'm inferring he's not. And if he hasn't been back, is he motivated?

It sounds like he doesn't have a bike yet, so he's not riding outside. If you're going from a base of nothing to riding several hundred miles in a week, in less than 4 months, he needs to get training.

Be supportive and encouraging all you want, but he has to ride the miles and they are not flat.

V.

[Bluetree]

Stacie, I think you did the right thing. One thing I expect from my friends is total honesty, even though it may not be the things I want to hear. (Yes, even if it makes me look fat.)
I hope he does prove you wrong. And me, too, since I agree with you about the reasonable-ness.

[Batbike]

i agree with those that say it COULD be too much; i agree with those that say he has time and IF he is serious and works hard, he COULD do the ride

AND I believe honesty is good, and as his friend it is important to tell him your concerns about his physical condition, the demands of the ride, and how it would be best if the "two were equal" ... then, as a friend, share your experience, encourage positive behavior, and let him figure-out the rest for himself!

i learned this from dealing with my DH -- he thought that riding a bike was no big deal, got a road bike and started riding. it only took a few rides with others to realize it wasn't as easy as he thought, and that he needed to rethink what he was doing and what he could really do ... action is an amazing teacher!

so, i say, encourage your friend to get a bike, help him get a bike, share your experience with him, say nothing else, and then let him ride ... you just NEVER know what can happen ... June is not tomorrow; June is the future, and the future is always an interesting uncertainty.

[Trek420]

Be supportive and encouraging all you want, but he has to ride the miles and they are not flat.

V.

V, I'm shocked :eek: You mean it's not all downhill to LA? But yes, the miles are not all flat.

Perhaps more important is what goes up must come down. I saw some crashes last time I think were because people focus so much on climbing skills they neglect descending skills. You can't learn that in spin class.

You need strength certainly but also skills to manage a long ride or multi day tour.

:eek: I'd better train.

[Bluetree]

V, I'm shocked :eek: You mean it's not all downhill to LA?

Trek... I hope you're not insinuating that Los Angeles is as "low as it gets" ;)

[stacie]

thanks trek, i hadn't even realized there were difficult climbs and descents. We're still working on why you should ride with the flow of traffic. Gulp.

[Trek420]

thanks trek, i hadn't even realized there were difficult climbs and descents. We're still working on why you should ride with the flow of traffic. Gulp.

On that, don't ask or debate why, just do it. :)

But what gets people on the hill above is not so much that hill but it comes at the end of a 20 or so mile "warm up hill". So you climb and climb and come around a corner, look up and :eek:

Check out the calves on the gal walking ;)

These are not weak people "cross training".

And of course any self propelled forward motion counts ;-)

There's debate between the techie people before and after the ride, I've read figures anywhere from 18,000 to 26,000 feet of climbing (and descending of course. We start and end at sea level so...).

There are harder individual rides out there. I think some of V's doubles have more climbing than that.

But what gets you is the back to back to backness on a multi day tour.

Do a century, do another, do another, do another in a red dress, do ....

Of course there's no shame in taking the SAG wagon and none will fault your friend.

But I train and plan and eat ;) :rolleyes: :cool: to ride every mile.

Once again, there is nothing wrong on any day with doing your best and taking the SAG wagon.

I've done that myself a few times and will again I'm sure.

But if I wanted a bus ride to LA I'd go Greyhound.

The website says "ride to end AIDS" and I think that should be ones training goal.

Stacie, PM me and feel free to have your friend contact me

Trek - CAR4 crew, Rider ALC 3, 4 & now 6, Training ride leader ALC 5 8-)

[maillotpois]

The website says "ride to end AIDS" and I think that should be ones training goal.


Rock on!

We're currently coaching a group for the Leukemia Society's Team in Training program for the Tour of the California Alps/Death Ride. www.deathride.com

That is an unreasonable goal for a lot of folks and will push the people on our team farther than they would have thought they could go. But it's pretty cool how having a goal outside yourself can be motivating.

[KSH]

Of course there's no shame in taking the SAG wagon and none will fault your friend.


Let me ask this... is the AIDS ride more about raising money and awarenes... vs. "You must make the entire distance"?

It is like the MS150... where SAG wagons are full and around you at all times?

I went into my first MS150 with poor training, and pain in my kness. Unfortunately, I wasn't sure how much I needed to train... but the little training I did... I was mashing my pedals.

So, my first MS150 was a MS65. But it was fine. I took a SAG wagon. I still raised the money and that is what mattered.

If this is the case with the AIDS ride... then why not back off your friend a little... reality will hit him when he starts riding. Why not help him raise money for a good cause instead?

[Trek420]

Meanwhile over in Treks head;

First off this probably came off pretty harsh. What's an unreasonable goal? We have riders right here recovering from injury, one TE'er training to walk 6 miles MS walk with a walker, our first time commuters .... we all remember that first ride, first Tri, first long run and someone who encouraged us. :)

My first AIDS ride I lucked into a tentmate, Kathy Mc (Kath? are you lurking? I know you're on BJ) a 6 time rider.

As we headed for our bikes on Day 1 she told me "your goal today is just_ride_safely. Some of these riders have never turned a pedal outside."

Sure 'nough as we stood ready to go a rider next to me, wearing track shorts and tennis shoes, with a Trek Madone said "How do I shift this thing? Where are the brakes?" :eek: :eek: :eek:

More about this rider and his success later, I gotta get to work :)

[stacie]

I'll do that Trek.
There seems to be the idea that I am just berating my friend over his goal. I told him my concerns and then said I would support him. When he finds a bike that interest him, I help him with questions to ask and things to consider. I don't just give him negative information. I've directed him to used bikes locally. I do try to be a realist. Today he said he would have 300 to buy a bike after plane fare and such. I told him he needed to consider the other essentials he would need. He hadn't considered buying other things. I'm making a list of things that are absolutely necessary and things that would be nice to have. I have no intention of trying to talk him out of this. He's intent on doing it. I'll give him as much information as I can to help him develop confidence on the road.
I recently told someone who had only ran 10 miles that they would not finish a marathon, at least not running. Well, he had a faster time than me. I'm conservative. I believe in being prepared for an event. I guess my natural ability is such that it alone won't carry me through. I have to work at it.
s

[Trek420]

... so where was I? Right, newbie rider, track shorts over sweats :eek: tennis shoes and clips :eek: brand new $3k road bike and helmet.

Ride starts, we get moving .... then and now I'm a slow/steady reliable metric rider, I'd never done a century before but experienced.

So I'm staying the he}} outa his way.

Day 1, day 2....day 6, day 7 there's this guy plugging along right with me.

He did every mile :D I sagged part of day 7, and bonked day 3.

Then next year ..... whoops, lunch is over ;)

[Trek420]

... where was I?

Oh right, Madona guy as far as I know did every mile where as your's truly did not. :o

I hit the spin class, weights, learn from TE gals and sign up for next year. Day one and guess who's back? Madona guy :D (I'm horrid at names, he is too.

He called me "Mermaid gal" for the mermaid on my helmet :D ).

He's fitter, trimmer and now he's clipless :D and he's got bike shorts :D and gear.

The bike still does not fit well, his shop obviously just went "here's shoes and pedals" and did not make adjustments for the fit.

Last year at least it fit, didn't know where the brakes are :eek: but it fit.

We talk in the back of the pack, that's where the fun is. He wears pictures on his helmet of three family members he's lost.

I'm faster now and stronger then, but so is he!

I ride every mile but 10 .... and I bet he did every mile.

I don't know how he did last year, but I saw him at registration and he looked great. :)

So guess I'm saying there's no telling.

I lead training rides last year and it's very tough to get people from "where's the brakes :eek: " to "shift now, no not now, not the front brake :eek: use both, lean here, scoot back, point your knee, clip out early, drink more, eat now...." in a few months.

It's best for all including the safety of others if they take more time and get lots of miles in.

Just because it can and has been done with less for the safety of the ride I have to say I feel he should get more experience.

"Madona guy" was riding for his family, he would never give up.

I'm not sure that seeing Logos movie* 7 days to End AIDS film would take you through that.

* I take it that's what he saw.

[Geonz]

I'll do that Trek.
There seems to be the idea that I am just berating my friend over his goal. I told him my concerns and then said I would support him. When he finds a bike that interest him, I help him with questions to ask and things to consider. I don't just give him negative information. I've directed him to used bikes locally. I do try to be a realist. Today he said he would have 300 to buy a bike after plane fare and such. I told him he needed to consider the other essentials he would need. He hadn't considered buying other things. I'm making a list of things that are absolutely necessary and things that would be nice to have. I have no intention of trying to talk him out of this. He's intent on doing it. I'll give him as much information as I can to help him develop confidence on the road.
I recently told someone who had only ran 10 miles that they would not finish a marathon, at least not running. Well, he had a faster time than me. I'm conservative. I believe in being prepared for an event. I guess my natural ability is such that it alone won't carry me through. I have to work at it.
s


It sounds to me like you're concerned about not only whether this goal is reasonable or not, but whether it's part of a fundamentally unhealthy thought and habit pattern. He can channel his concerns about fitness, etc. on this "venture" - without actually *doing* anything. I'm sure there's a clinical term for it... and if it's a typical pattern ... I can understand not wanting to join in the rah-rahs. (If it's not, then I'd still be honest and hope he learned from it. If it *is,* I'd be trying to scheme ways to set up his trains of thought so that somehow the real thing might teach him something - but is he likely to find a way to back out of it at the last minute?)

When he talks about it, I would focus on replies that invovle opportunities for exercise right now ... or show him web sites about riding in groups ;) that way you're being supportive, but supportive of more important things than A Long Ride.

[stacie]

Yes, that's a big part of it sue. It's exciting to belong to something as special as the aids ride. We all want to be a part of something. It's also much easier to put my focus on something like this rather than addressing the real issue of developing a healthy lifestyle.