re: seats and shorts

[gretchen]

Okay...let's talk shorts and seats....
Shorts: what's the purpose of the cut out on the bike saddle if your shorts are so full of padding that the cut out "goes away"?
Wouldn't it be great to have a pair of padded shorts with the shammie with some kind of cut out part so you don't rub so much.
Anyone have a solution for that? Or even relate to what i'm talking about?
When you say "my seat gets sore after 20 miles (like mine does)...do you mean..."my butt" or "my girl parts"? For me? It's not the Butt!
Solutions wanted and welcome. Or...just commiserate with me!
:D gretchen

[Veronica]

Everyone has their favorite saddles and shorts. I guess because we're all shaped so differently. Since I switched to a Brooks saddle I haven't had any problems of any kind. My favorite shorts are Sugoi's RS series. They're a ten panel short and have the perfect amount of padding in them. I've spent a hundred miles in this shorts and been very comfy. They're pricey, but my saddle time is worth it.
http://www.teamestrogen.com/products.asp?pID=8532



You might try canting the nose of your saddle down slightly to get the pressure off the girly parts.

V.

[gretchen]

I've heard a ton about Brooks saddles...they must be great.
I love my saddle though, just over 620 miles so far this spring on it. I do have to shift myself back often when i ride over 20 miles and that's when the chaffing and rubbing come in. I wonder if i should tip it back?

Just a note on the side: I hate rain! I just took off for a ride and it's constant drizzle. I rode 40 yesterday so i'm justifying the turning around and opting for swimming tonight.
Good call? ....just agree so i stop feeling guilty! :D
gretchen

[Veronica]

Are you using Chamois Butt'r or some similar product? If I'm doing more than 40 it's a must.

Riding is supposed to be fun. I did weights for the first time in like 3 months yesterday (I hate doing weights!) then went for a swim. I'm kind of sore today. I was going to ride to the pool and swim again this morning, then mountain bike tonight with Thom. I've decided instead to be a slug and cross stitch and read today (maybe do some house work and yard work) and just do the mountain bike ride. The point is - don't feel guilty. :D


V.

[gretchen]

V. I like your game plan for the day! That sounds so great.
I am one of those that has to have everything done before i "allow" myself to relax...which means NEVER! :(
My daughter keeps talking about the butter...i'll need to get some.
Have a great day. I think i'll go work on a painting project i'm doing (it's a fun one...not like painting a room!).
Have a good ride tonight :D
gretchen

[ragbrai40]

Ok couple of questions regarding above commments:

Regarding the butt'r - I have some, never used it and was wondering - do you apply directly to skin or to the short padding? If appied to skin, the obvious would be to avoid the "girly" parts? Where exactly does it get applied and how much?

Regarding the shorts - My absolute favorite pair from last year that I could ride 50 - 80+ miles in - Pearl Izumi's 8 panel (not sure which ones) are suddenly uncomfortable and I'm squirming constantly on the seat after 25 miles. In fact I can't ride in the drops as it's really uncomfortable "down there" and have to sit up. Question - can the padding break down after numerous wearings and also I'm wondering if they are slightly too big due weight loss from last year?! :confused:

And is it normal to have to scoot back on the seat quite often when changing bar positions? All this saddle talk is making me wonder if I should have checked out more options when I got the bike last year. Hmmm......

[Veronica]

You can put the Butter either directly on your skin or on the shorts. I put it on my skin - where the pad runs out to prevent chafing on a long ride. I don't bother with it unless it's going to be a long day.

About the shorts - I had the same thing happen with the Castelli shorts I loved last year. I suspect the pads wear out. Look at what happens to your padded gloves. Seems to me it would happen to shorts as well.

I scoot back a lot on the tandem since the geometry of the bike doesn't allow me to get my handlebars level with my saddle. I don't scoot on my single. For me, saddle and handlebars level, with the saddle nose canted up slightly works.

Veronica

[gretchen]

First off: we women are awesome. We just put the questions right out there. Men, they would be internalizing it all...and as for them, where the heck to they put all that "parifanallia" (sp?) in those little shorts and on that seat. We'll leave that problem up to them!!!

Re: Butt'r (love that name!) As my daughter discribes it...you just slather in on. I"ll have to ask her to get more specific...but i think the intention is to be "ON" the girlie parts to keep them from falling off!!!! :p

Too big shorts: way to go on the weight loss...i say, "New shorts for everybody"!!!!
I too love those PI shorts. I have the new 3-D ones too and they are REALLY padded...almost too much for me.

I was thinking of taking a pair of 'less expensive' shorts and trying to modify them , cutting out some of the padding.

Hey, while we're on the subject...has anyone tried the biking underware? (briefs). I just can't get myself to go camando and was thinking that would be awesome to have underware that was biking padded that you could put gym shorts over. Any thoughts on that one?

:D gretchen

[Veronica]

OOOOOO Gretchen, are you wearing undies, under your biking shorts? I can see that leading to lots of chafing.

Yep, I find PI shorts to have way too much padding for me. It seems like it goes halfway down the inside of my thigh. Not where I need padding, as I am genetically engineered to have large, but muscular :p thighs.

Veronica

[ragbrai40]

Veronica - Thanks for the application info! I've ridden some long days and have never tried it - maybe that will save me from some uncomfortable moments - I'm trying it on the next long ride! Also I had kind of figured the padding might break down - I need a new pair of shorts anyway and have the Sugois in my TE shopping cart ready for checkout! ;)

Gretchen - Not going commando in the biking shorts could be an issue - I never wear anything underneath, the excess seems to cause more problems than not. I've been rubbed raw by the underwear seams when I have worn it - and that's usually "that time of the month". Normally it's commando for me!:eek:

[kpc]

Gretchen, try going commando. It's way more comfortable. The bike shorts are so thick, that no one can see any shadows or anything. I even wear underwear when i sleep, and I really like being bare under the shorts. I was skeptical too, but now am a believer.

[gretchen]

Ok, you've all convinced me...i'll try going "neckid" under my shorts. Ewwww, just thinking about it, kind of grosses me out!
:o
Oh, great, the rain has stopped and i have to go over to my shop now. Drag. I'm feeling ancie not riding today!
Tomorrow...comando.
:D

[emily_in_nc]

I agree with the posters here about the importance of not wearing undies under shorts. I've done several centuries with minimal saddle problems (and I wear the cheap Performance shorts, mostly!), so I think that's a really important thing. No reason to be modest since black shorts are not see-thru at all!

As for Chamois Butt'r, I also use it for all rides over 25 miles. I do not put it in the middle (girly bits!) where it might sting, just in the areas between my inner thigh and crotch, which is where I will chafe if I am going to. It's good stuff! :)

Emily

[MightyMitre]

Some great tips here, especially about making sure you're wearing - or rather not wearing - the correct underwear :p

There's also various types of chamois cream. Some are good for stopping rubbing, while others are anti - bac and anti- fungal which can be useful if you're in your shorts all day every day or think you might be susceptible to candida infection.

I've got some stuff that's like petrolum jelly which is also anti - bac and I use it every time I ride, except for the shortest of distances. Helps keep the rubbing or chaffing away.

[spokes]

hi, all. i had the same problem as you, gretchen-- i think. i had pain from where the saddle nose met my body-- definitely girly-parts territory! i bought a saddle with the nose cut-out, recommended for pain in that area. now i have soreness (more like post-ride annoyance) where the edge of the cutout meets my body, which is kinda where girly parts meets thigh (hard to explain! :confused: ) but it's definitely better than the numbness and pain before! it kinda feels like the sore-butt thing, when i was just starting to ride and my body was just suddenly getting used to the bike under me for that long.

i've been wearing the same shorts for a while now, but i noticed that the chamois is now a little stiffer. if that was happening to all shorts, i imagine they'd start to chafe eventually, just from age. i also notice that i shift around a lot on my saddle and have to remind myself to scooch back on to my sit-bones constantly.

one time my chamois was still wet from washing when i wanted to bike to work. undaunted, i wore sweats and regular underwear, oh, the horror! :( there was much chafing and bunching. never again! :rolleyes: i also highly recommend going commando simply because it's very liberating! :D

i have bought two saddles so far, and the second seems to be working so far. this is one of those cases of 'try and try again,' unfortunately.

btw, thanks all. this thread has been very informative!

[kimba]

Hi- just wanted to get my 2 cents in!

I too used to wear undies with my shorts.
Finally - after much chafing and discomfort, I decided to go commando- and now I wouldn't go back! It is MUCH more comfortable!
and- I know I had great concerns about- what if I crash? Won't that skimpy little piece of lycra/spandex just disintegrate leaving me all nekkid and em- bare- assed???

well- I found out when I endo-ed.
Skidded on the tops of my thighs on gravelly ground-
not a tear! only a teeny tiny"melted" looking mark on one knee.
I am a believer!

huzzah!
and yes - it is very liberating!

Kimba

nekkid in the nineties.

[Karen London]

regarding do chamois wear out, on www.mec.ca they were selling replacement chamois earlier this year. They were made in Italy etc. I read somewhere that there are two main chamois makers/types in Italy so maybe these could be the ones the Italian manufacturers use....

I don't ever use cream but I never did more than about 40 miles in one day. I do use : Brooks saddles. Love them, just pay the money and forget. Also: Castelli shorts. And if your shorts get too big (or if you get too small), big shorts are a no-no. They will chafe. London is so lovely to cycle in now especially in the parks, it's all so green....

[gretchen]

If there's anyone out there from Traverse City, Michigan...watch for me on the roads this weekend...I'm headed north with my daughter and two of our friends to ride...and after all of your help on this thread...I'll be the one riding with a smirk on my face
(I'll be comando!) :D
Safe riding to everyone...
and thanks for all of the awesome advice.
gretchen:cool:

[meudon]

At last a girls forum with female issues, hurrah!

This sore 'bit n pieces' is a challenge that i face constantly - I must have tried about 10 different saddles so far and use chammy cream too. You are all raving about Brooks saddles - I haven't come accross these in the uk - does anyone have a web link?:)

[Veronica]

Saddles (http://www.wallbike.com/)

This is a link to Wallingford Bike. They carry Brooks and have a good return policy. I have the British Racing Green Finesse on my single and tandem.

V.

http://www.wallbike.com/jpgs/greensaddles.jpg

[Irulan]

Originally posted by kimba
Hi- just wanted to get my 2 cents in!

well- I found out when I endo-ed.
Skidded on the tops of my thighs on gravelly ground-
not a tear! only a teeny tiny"melted" looking mark on one knee.
I am a believer!

huzzah!
and yes - it is very liberating!



yes, it's really liberating when the shorts do not hold up to the gravel. I"ve seen it happen to others, the big hole on the butt to finish the ride, LOL. I have one pair of super light wicking lycra shorts that I LOVE for hot weather riding, but I can't seem to not keep them from snagging, they are so thin.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

penny

[jobob]

I'm another fan of Brooks leather saddles.

I had initially ordered a Champion Flyer "S" from Wallingford (see the link V provided above), which is a shorter and wider version, which is generally preferred by many women. It didn't feel right to me so I tried one of my husband's, a regular Champion Flyer, and it felt just right.

I ended up returning the Champion Flyer"S" to Wallingford and purchasing a B.17, which is considered the "classic" Brooks saddle - the only difference between the Champion Flyer I had borrowed from my husband and the B.17 is that the latter does not have springs. Springs are nice when you ride on rough trails but I don't do that very much.

The B.17 arrived, I slapped some proofhide on it (a leather preservative), put it on Pokey, and proceeded to forget I had a new leather saddle - no break in time needed ( one could of course argue that my butt was already broken in :rolleyes: ). The leather was a bit slipery at first but that went away after a while.

I've had no saddle sores or any other discomfort from my Brooks saddles from day one. FWIW, I wear mid-range Pearl Izumi shorts, and I use chamois butt'r when I know I'm going to be riding more than 40 miles or so, or less if it's warm out.

Brooks saddles come in a bewildering array of styles so it's good to buy them from Wallingford with their generous return policy, you might want to try a couple of different styles. I found I'm much more comfortable on a men's style than a women's.

If you're looking for a very lightweight saddle, well, then a Brooks isn't for you, although they do make lightweight racing saddles but they cost a bundle.

HTH, - Jo.

[Dogmama]

The voice of dissent --

I vote for the Serfas saddles. Mine was instantly comfortable.

I'm a smallish woman with narrow hips - never had kids. So I need a narrower saddle or I'm miserable.

That's my $.03

[Veronica]

I've spent a little bit of time on a B17. It's on Thom's bike which is what goes into the trainer come the rainy season (we ride the same size bike - quite handy!) and it's also his saddle on the tandem. So when I was training for Cinderella I rode it a bit. For me it wasn't quite as comfy as the Finesse. The nose is a bit a longer and that seemed a little weird.

I didn't even bother with the proofhide on either Finesse and neither saddle needed any breaking in time. Thom said the same thing about his B17s - perfect right out of the box. They're not light - but neither am I!

V.

[MightyMitre]

Hi Meudon - Nice to see another Brit and fairly local tool. I'm in Brighton.

You should have been at Brighton Mitre's cycle jumble we held the other few week. There were some old skool Brookes saddles there, amongst lost of other bits and pieces. One of the stall holders said they used to use olive oil to soften up their leather saddles before breaking them in.

Having looked at a few of them , personally I think the shape would probably kill me ( I use a Selle Italia with a cut out ) But the craftsmanship and quality was absolutley superb! One saddle would last you your whole cycling career!:)

[jobob]

I don't mean to imply Brooks are for everyone, far from it ... they're just one of many to consider. Definitely a niche market, that one! I just like to toot Brooks' horn (and Wallingford Bicycle Parts) when the opportunity arises :D

MM, you're right, they do last a long time. That kind of permanence appeals to me. It runs counter to the Disposable Era in which we live (not necessarily bikes, but certainly electronics, most clothing, etc. - use it for a couple of years and dump it, costs more to repair than to replace, that sort of thing).

V, the main reason why I proofhided my new B.17 was because it made the shiny new leather just a bit less slippery ... whee!

[ChainsOflove]

After a TON of suffering and horrifying chafing welts on my skin, I came up with this combo:

Terry knickers that have kind of tight elastic to keep the pants leg down, and also have a not very thick chamois. This solved the bunching/rubbing/wedgie of fabric.

Use body glide applied to inner thighs, stopped the rubbing.
Using a Terry Butterfly Gel seat on my road bike.

It's taken me six months but I finally hit it, thank god. !

[gretchen]

hey!
122 miles this weekend...
tried camando...no change! :confused:
We rode 20 gorgous miles on Friday through Northern Michigan
(for anyone not formiliar with this area, i'm pretty positive that God made it for biking...along with the perfect wide sholders adn smooth pavement)...then 80 miles on Sat and 22 to "cool down" on sunday. HEAVEN
"Butt" back to the "seats" issues... A Serfas saddle is on my bike, i love it, i think it's the extra heaven padding of the PI 3D's that might be my problem. I don't have any rubbing at all on my legs or thighs...it all just "smooshed girlie parts".
I"m off to the LBS today to check out the shorts again for thinner padding.
If you want an awesome place to ride...MIGHIGAN! (but don't tell anyone!).
gretchen :D

[Veronica]

Lucky you if you can find decent shorts at the LBS. Nobody around here seems to carry the stuff I like. Thank God for TE!

V.

[ragbrai40]

Hey Gretchen! Great weekend mileage! I got in 95 myself - great weather here in the midwest over the weekend!


"Butt" back to the "seats" issues... A Serfas saddle is on my bike, i love it, i think it's the extra heaven padding of the PI 3D's that might be my problem. I don't have any rubbing at all on my legs or thighs...it all just "smooshed girlie parts".

I was having the same issues with a pair of my thicker padded PI's and I've since switched back to another PI pair with thinner padding - and guess what! No "smooshed girlie parts"!:D

Now I'm going to have to get another pair to replace the thicker padded ones - I've found I can only stand to wear them on rides < 25mi and I've got a 500 mile ride in July. Soooo I'm shopping for shorts and am considering some Sugos that veronica recommended in an earlier post.

Happy Monday everyone. Can we bunk off today? It's too nice to be working - we should be riding!:)

[emily_in_nc]

The other thing I'd recommend for "smooshed girlie bits" is a saddle with a cutout. I like the thickly padded shorts myself, but I can't ride without a saddle cutout - it's a godsend for me!

Emily

[fultzie]

RE: Shorts
I wear PI 3-D and looove the padding, however, i've noticed that i've almost worn holes thru where my legs rub against the saddle. i've only ridden about 300 mi in them (guesstimate)... could it be that they're too small (and therefore the fabric gets stretched too thin?) or should i call the company because this shouldn't happen?? a size up in shorts and the chammy tends to bunch (my team shorts are a size up and are totally uncomfortable--oowww!!!)
i'm kinda peeved- they're my fav. shorts!
advice? :confused:

[bounceswoosh]

I actually found that the PIs run a bit large compared to some other brands (like Primal, for example). Friends of mine have also noticed this.

It does seem like the material of my PI attacks is thinner than the material on some of my other shorts ... but 300 miles could be less than a month for some people! That just doesn't seem right.

[letty]

Fultizie:
It is interesting that you mention that your PI 3d shorts seem to thin out by the are where the shorts meet the saddle. I wear the same shorts and I have noticed the same. I love the shorts too, but the fabric seems to wear out easily. However, the shorts are not cheap, they should last longer than they wear out.
Letty

[JDom226]

Haven't gotten small enough to try the PI shorts yet, but I would like to recommend trying the InSport RTP (Relieve the Pressure) shorts. I rode in mine for the first time this week and they were very comfortable. I have a couple of other style of InSport shorts and they also fit well. I'm a plus size rider and they seem to have a little more hip and seat room for me. I also like that they have a slightly shorter leg, but not so short that everything falling out of them. Just thought I'd add my two cents to the discussion.

[adkoch]

ChainsOfLove, thanks for the tip about the Body Glide - I never knew what else I'd use it for, besides for the wetsuit! Also, is it just me or why do my shorts always want to bunch up at the crease in my thighs to where I am constantly standing up and yanking the legs down??!!! Does this mean my shorts are too big? I have the PI Attacks, which I can't say are that much better than my cheap Lemonds...

[gretchen]

JDom...tell me more about the "relieve the pressure" shorts!
That is my one and only problem with distance rides. Totally smooshed girl parts. I have the cut out in my saddle too.
Ugh, the pain. Please,.....tell me more. :confused:
gretchen

[JDom226]

gretchen
I found the shorts listed on Teamestrogen. I already had another pair of InSport shorts that fit great, so I thought I'd try them. They have a gel filled chamois. It seems to give just that little bit extra cushioning so you're more comfortable. I have a new Terry saddle that I still have to try. Just haven't had time to put it on the bike yet. I think the combination will be a winner for me. The shorts are pretty reasonably priced too. The other pair of Insport that i have have been in the wash every week since purchasing and they're holding up great.:)

[administrator]

Fultzie, Bounceswoosh, Letty,

Are any of you riding saddles with kevlar covers or kevlar edges? We've heard reports that kevlar covered saddles can wear out shorts in just 2 or 3 rides!

[bounceswoosh]

Nope, no Kevlar here ... although, I haven't noticed any wear thus far. It just seems that the material is a hair thinner than my other shorts -- doesn't mean they're less durable, necessarily

[ChainsOflove]

ADKoch

You are welcome!
Yes I believe it means shorts are on the too big side if they are drifting up and cramming into your thighs and other folds. This is what what happening to me. I have heavy legs so I always thought the tight elastic was bad, but it has a purpose I guess.

Good luck@

[Shellnz]

Thanks for all of the hints!

I'm a larger rider. I get chaffing on my seat bones - think it's the seam of the chammy. Does anyone know if this means my bike pants are probably too small?

[Dogmama]

It could be the design of the shorts. How long do you ride before you start getting chaffing? Have you tried a different brand of shorts?

[gretchen]

Ok, i'm strickly a "camando" girl now...after a ride the other day i had the worst battle with a seam in my underwear! OUCH!
Each ride is different for me...yesterday (22miles) i was feeling totally smooshed after just 7 miles, today (32 miless) i could have gone further with not too much pain. Hmmm, wierd. I'm thinking i need to try and tip my seat up a bit though. I find i am always re-adjusting myself on the seat...skooching back to the "right" spot, then it's somewhat comfy for a bit and back i go.
any ideas? Other then the smooshing of parts...my bike is totally comfy, drops and all.
gretchen:D

[Dogmama]

Try tipping the nose up a bit. Also, are you over reaching on the handlebars? Do you need to move the seat forward? You'll need to make sure that you don't compromise your knees if you move you seat. When your leg is at the 9:00 or 3:00 position (depending on which way you're reading your clock!) and you drop a plumb-bob from your kneecap, it should end up at the ball of your foot. If you move your seat up and find that the angle is too steep - in other words - the plumb-bob falls towards the front of your foot, you'll need to make the adjustment at the handlebars with a shorter stem. You never want to compromise your knees.

OTOH, the shape of your seat might not be correct for you (that would be the bicycle seat..har har har!). If it slopes down sharply from the back, it might be difficult to stay on the wide part.

[caligurl]

Originally posted by Karen London
And if your shorts get too big (or if you get too small), big shorts are a no-no. They will chafe.

i'm so glad i found this forum!

i'm brand, brand new to cycling. just got my bike and first 2 pair of shorts on sunday. one of the pair i got was from performance.. their century short shorts. my hubby wears the men's centuries and loves them.

my problem is.. i think they are too big. i mean i know that the padding takes getting used to.... but i really feel like there's too much there.. and it moves around and stuff... and the back part of the shorts from waist to butt.. doesn't sit nice and smooth.. it kinda bunches (hard to explain)...

i think they must be too big.. problem is.. they don't make XS in the centuries!

so i guess i need to get back to a bike store and try some more brands on.. and see which ones don't have so much material (the shebeest ones i bought don't have all that material.. and the adorable sugoi ones i tried on and didn't buy didn't have all the extras either!) i was trying to save money by getting generic shorts.. but in the long run when i get better at cycling.. it sounds like i'll be miseable and not wear them anyways...

[gretchen]

Hey Caligirl! Just me again (gretchen)....
I totally understand what you mean by the shorts up the back...what the heck do they think we're going to fill that much fabric with?!!!!!!!!!! I have two pairs of PI (Pearl Izumi), one is the 3D (WAY too much padding) adn the other is the sensor, another two pairs of Volear (or however you spell that!)...which i like becasue they don't over pad them . I am a believer that everyone is SOOOO different in what they like in a short/padding. My daugher likes lots, me...not so much. I have not experienced the rubbing/chaffing (oh, wait, yes i did when i was an "underwear" wearer and the seam on the underwear started rubbing after about 30 miles...OUCH) but i think so much padding defeats the purpose of the cut-out in the saddle. For a while i thought, why ever bother with padding, then i dropped my car off at the dealer for service and rode my bike home without bike shorts. I now get the need for padding. Oh, and padded gloves. Those high pressure tires don't have much "give"! Just keep trying the shorts, you'll eventually find the ones you like ...after about $1200.00!!!!! :(
Hey,what kind of bike did you get?
:D gretchen

[caligurl]

hi gretchen! *waves!*

i did try on a bunch of shorts this weekend... it's rough! i think i'll like the pearl izumi's.. most styles.. except i prefer shorter inseams.. so that was restricting my choices.. i'm still kicking myself that i tried on a pair of PI's.. micro sensor or something like that.. marked 105 on the 1/2 price rack.. and i decided not to get them... UGH! maybe they'll still be there when i get back in the area!

i found a pair of short PI's that i did get.. less padding.. but fit well...

i'm still like my shebeests with the blue stripe best...

i also tried on performance's elite, i think they were.... and those are shorter and fit waaaaaay better than their centuries/gels, etc. so i think i'll be placing an order for one or two of those..

i just like having lots of choices and i'm not getting that with cycling shorts *pout*

at least i have better luck with jerseys! (i have a jacket already that i got at sports chalet on the clearance rack.. WOO HOO!)

[gretchen]

Bargins: I found some "Hind" stuff at tjmax and actually found just some plain sleeveless (the shorts sleeve ones make me claustrophobic!!) tanks at Walmart (!!!!!!) with coolmax lining behind the cotton, they had some spandex in the cotton outter part so they 'fit' and were only $5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
(i have to mention here that i'm 46 (!) and feel like i'm trying to look 26 when i wear anything too flashy when i'm biking! (although i feel like 26).)
:cool: gretchen

[ChainsOflove]

I tried on Zoot Tri shorts, xl for men and are they nice!
Very soft and very small chamois. I think they are going to work, and they are way cheaper than bike shorts.