Cyclists on Sidewalks

[pooks]

I was waiting for a chance to turn out onto the 4-lane street from a parking lot and I saw a couple of cyclists -- Mormon missionaries -- riding toward me on the sidewalk.

My reaction? "You don't have the right of way so I hope you're ready to stop," as I turned in front of them.

They weren't close enough that it could have caused a collision, or I'm suree I would have waited, and honestly I don't know if they even had to slow down. I just saw that they were zipping toward me but I had plenty of time to turn in front of them, although they MIGHT have had to slow down a bit, I'm not sure -- but I also knew that if they'd been riding in the street, I'd have waited and let them go by so there wouldn't be any question.

None of this was deliberated. My brain process was just -- you're on the sidewalk, so you're gonna have to let me go first.

I've seen them ride in the streets a lot so I'm not sure why they were on the sidewalk to begin with.

I'm not sure if this is the same thought I would have had if I weren't a cyclist. And I don't know WHY I didn't err on the part of caution and just let them go by anyway.

But for the first time I've seen it in action -- in my own brain -- why bikes should be in the street and not on the sidewalk.

Any comments? I'm not sure if I should be chastised or not! I do know that if I were doing it again, I'd probably let them go by. I was down the street before I started mulling over what had happened, and wondering whether I was a bad driver or not!

[SouthernBelle]

I often find myself thinking similarly. I'll think, "I have the right of way" when it's between me and a car. Who would lose in that duel?

I think we have to reach a compromise between asserting our "right of way" and our safety. You were there so only you can tell if you did the right thing.

[anakiwa]

Sidewalks are pretty dangerous places for cyclists. Your brain was probably reacting to the fact that cyclists shouldn't really be on sidewalks.

As far as who has the right of way- I'm not sure what the law says. My gut reaction is that the cyclist would have to wait, but when I think about it- they probably have the same rights as a pedestrian on a sidewalk (and probably the pedestrian has the right of way?)

I almost never ride on sidwalks, but there is one short section of my commute to work where I can get on the sidewalk and go against traffic as a result (thereby avoiding 2 annoying left turns). I have to cross the exits to 2 parking lots- I'm always very careful to make sure no one is coming or going- so something in my gut makes me think I don't have the right of way when I'm on the sidewalk.

[pooks]

When I'm on my bike, I never assume I have the right of way, even when I do! No way I'm going that route. In fact, even when driving I will always give way if somebody tries to cut in front of me or pass me or anything. Driving is not a contact sport.

The more I've pondered it, the more I think I was influenced by a "you know better than that" snark in the back of my mind when I pulled in front of them.

Again, this wasn't a safety issue -- there was no chance of collision. At worst, they might have slowed a bit. They might not have even done that.

What I found revealing was knowing that if they'd been in the street, I wouldn't have even considered pulling in front of them had I thought they might have to slow down.

[Grog]

It's nearly certain they shouldn't have been there (although in some states I hear policemen have told cyclists to stick to the sidewalk - a stupid idea but anyway).

However, I'm certain they had right of way, like a pedestrian would have. (They were probably going about the speed of a fast runner.)

This is even more true if you were coming out of a parking lot (private driveway) without a light to give you priority and or a stop for them (you have a stop by default coming out of any driveway). Moreoever, usually, slower vehicles (and pedestrians) are thought to have right of way.

So, yeah, they were not in the right spot. And it's fairly unlikely that policepeople would have ticketed you for that, because they don't care much about pedestrians and cyclists usually. But when I move around with a ton and a half of metal around me, I always prefer to err on the side of caution...

[pooks]

I agree with you, Grog. Which is why I decided to post.

I knew what I did wasn't dangerous -- I never would have considered it otherwise. But I was astonished at how quickly I (as a driver) dismissed them and their claim on "right of way" because they were on the sidewalk!

[KnottedYet]

Isn't it funny how different the unwritten rules are in different parts of the country?

Around here, anyone on the sidewalk (wheelchair, walker, jogger, mom with stroller, blind person with dog, skateboarder, idiot on a bike) has right of way over a vehicle coming out of a parking lot and wanting to cross the sidewalk line.

[Eden]

Isn't it funny how different the unwritten rules are in different parts of the country?

Around here, anyone on the sidewalk (wheelchair, walker, jogger, mom with stroller, blind person with dog, skateboarder, idiot on a bike) has right of way over a vehicle coming out of a parking lot and wanting to cross the sidewalk line.

ooooooh I wish the drivers here actually knew that rule! Some yo-yo nearly killed me the other day shooting out of the Safeway parking lot without stopping- and he was going really fast for being in a parking lot too. Then he had the audacity to roll down his window and yell at me for "hiding" behind a column (I was walking). When I told him that it didn't matter that he needed to stop before crossing the sidewalk his reply was where's the stop sign (and there even actually was one even though the law is you have to stop before crossing a sidewalk no matter if there is a sign or not!!!!) oooooh makes me soooooo mad!!!!!
Drivers here are getting worse. My husband was nearly hit in a crosswalk by someone running a red light (and no it wasn't even right on red). They got so close that he put is hands on their hood before they were completely stopped - yeah he realizes that he wouldn't have stopped the car, but its just a reaction that you can't stop.

As far as riding on the sidewalk goes - its legal here in Seattle, though pedestrians have the right of way over bikes. I don't really recommend it though. Its too dangerous for everyone. I've heard one of the worst places for accidents is where a sidewalk or bikeway crosses a street or parking lot exit/entrance. One thing to remember around here is that if you are on a bike in a crosswalk you are technically a pedestrian and have all of the same rights/responsibilities. Though of course you should not push it as you won't ever win an argument with a car, if one does hit you in a crosswalk they need to take the appropriate responsibility.

[MomOnBike]

On the same theme, I had a similar incident that gave me a thrill recently.

I was creeping up on an intersection, planning on turning right on a red light. (Legal here.) I was looking left to judge the traffic coming at me, and a guy on a bike on the sidewalk just zipped in front of me.

Now, I like to think I'm more aware of bikes than your average driver, but I honestly didn't know he was coming, because, frankly, I wasn't looking for something coming from that direction.

No harm, no foul, but it could have ruined both our days with just slightly different timing. (Did I mention that he was riding without his hands anywhere near the bars/brakes?)

All that said, I occasionally take to the sidewalk in certain situations, but boy, am I aware of the hazards - and I always have my fingertips on the brakes.

[pooks]

It's also the law here that you have to stop before leaving a parking lot. I had stopped and then went on.

[Grog]

I'm pretty sure it's the law everywhere...

[Geonz]

Ya, you were being assertive and righteous ... and honestly, it might make them think. It's prob'ly similar to when a car decides to get out into the road in front of me and it seems they're assuming I'm going a lot slower than I am... once we're going the same direction I will accelerate so that I'm close to them and maybe they'll think I was even closer.
Yesterday the reverse happened... it wasn't clear whether a backing-out car had seen me or not and there was a car right in front of me... I'm thinking"yea, is he waiting for that car and going to back right into me?" ... and the driver put the car out of reverse so the back up lights went out, jes' fer me ;) (I've done it myself...)

[Meaux]

I know in TX bikes are considered vehicles like cars, but we're not allowed on the freeway (obviously). However, most drivers don't realize that. They just plow through like we shouldn't be allowed on the road. And I've seen a lot of cyclists that ride like fools as well. I think that most drivers don't know what to do with cyclists on the road and act accordingly.

[aicabsolut]

There are some spots around here where the multiuse trails are on sidewalks by busy roads. Bikes have to yield to pedestrians, but everyone on the sidewalk has a right of way over the driveway crossings (and pedestrian crossings at intersections on green). That still didn't stop a taxi from nearly slamming into my side as it raced into a hotel parking lot. I was very visible. I did an emergency stop and in the process of jumping off the bike got bitten by the cranks or something. Then when Mr. Taxi (who finally stopped) let me go ahead, I didn't move my bleeding self along fast enough, so he started shaking his fist at me. Did I mention I was test-riding a Madone that I couldn't afford? Super.

I'm pretty sure this great driver would have treated me the same way had I been on the road. He would've just been closer to hitting me, or he would've turned in front of me, making me run into him.

Pulling in or out of a driveway, I'd treat everyone on the sidewalk as having the rights of pedestrians. I'm pretty sure that's the law in most places. I don't think it matters whether the law says the bikes are supposed to be on the road or sidewalk in that particular area.

[lph]

Yep, my "favourite" taxi story goes somewhat like that: I came along the bike path/sidewalk parallell with a busy road: ok, there's a bus stopped to the left of me - check, all passengers clear, there's a gas station to the right of me and I'm about to cross the exit - check, no-one pulling out.

And BAM - a taxi appears right in front of me. Idiot driver had passed the bus and pulled blindly into the gas station without even slowing down. I slammed on the brakes and skidded sideways into the car, hopefully causing a sizeable dent. And then I pulled open the door and put a sizeable "dent" in her hearing...

Oh, and in Norway pulling in or out of a driveway you have to yield to anything with a pulse.

[Duck on Wheels]

I don't know what the rules are in Texas, but here cyclists are allowed on the sidewalk if that's where they feel safest.
* On the sidewalk, cyclists must yield to pedestrians.
* Cyclists leaving the sidewalk yield to everybody in the street, unless they dismount and walk across at a crosswalk. This is one reason why it's sometimes smarter to stay in the road and claim the lane.
* And the answer to your question: Any car crossing the sidewalk either coming to or going from the road yields to anybody on the sidewalk including cyclists.
So according to Norwegian rules, you acted on a wrong assumption, but since the cyclists weren't endangered or hampered at all you did not act illegally.

[Aseradyn]

In my part of Houston, 99% of bicycles are on the sidewalks (including mine!) There are several reasons for that: 1) the roads are fast (the slowest roads are about 35-40mph); 2) there are no shoulders, anywhere; and 3) there are relatively few pedestrians on most sidewalks (but the streets are very full of cars).

The result is that most of us ride on the sidewalks, unless it's a stretch of road without sidewalk (which also happens a lot), so that's where cars really expect us to be. Most cars that are turned across the sidewalk, waiting to enter the street traffic, will back up back into the parking lot to let bicycles pass.

I've heard people on every bike forum say things like, "Sidewalks are always more dangerous than streets" and I, quite frankly, disagree. That might be true in a downtown area, but it's not in my neighborhood. You won't get anywhere fast on a bike around here, but you're much less likely to get run over if you stick to the sidewalks and keep a good watch out.

The only bikes you see in the streets are either racing cyclists (rare around here - the type who travel in packs with matching jerseys and helmets) and utility bikes trying to get somewhere without sidewalk access (and being screamed at by passing cars).

[Geonz]

There is no One Big Rule for what's safest. Sounds like there *is* no really safe option for reasonably fast riding where you are.

An important part of "what's safe" is "what do people expect." When I lived in Columbia SC I spent a fair amount of time on sidewalks for the same reasons. Bridges were the worst!

[Bluetree]

I live in a high density area and don't consider sidewalks very safe. Mainly because the many apartment/condo complexes have underground parking lots. When cars come out of the subterranean lots, not only are they completely blind on both sides, but the driveways' steep incline flattens out at the sidewalk. Since drivers don't like to stop on an incline, they come roaring out and 'hang' on the apex before looking around - in the case, right in the middle of the sidewalk. I know a few complexes have bubble mirrors, but 90% of them don't. It's an accident just waiting to happen. :mad:

[Geonz]

It's really important to realize the difference between feeling safer and being safer. Lots of people *feel* like sidewalks are safer - but there are all kinds of hidden hazards. SOmetimes, though, they are - my last couple hundred yards to school, for instance. No interactions or conflicts and I can see from one end to the other - generally no pedestrians, either. The road's four busy lanes of people who do *not* want me there. I'm turning from the walk into the school so I don't even have to get back into traffic.
Group rides we do the road, though - sidewalk ends at the school so we'd have to get back in.

[indysteel]

The city ordinance where I live indicates that it's acceptable to ride on a sidewalk as long as you operate the bike in a safe manner vis-a-vis other people using the sidewalk. I would expect, then, to have the same rights as a pedestrian. That said, I don't like riding on sidewalks because I don't feel confident that drivers will notice me. Drivers (and I'm guilty of this too) get fixated on oncoming traffic, that they forget to look for sidewalk traffic. This is especially true on one way streets where pedestrians and cyclist sometimes walk/ride against traffic. If, for some reason, I had to use a sidewalk, I'd pay particular attention at intersections, parking lots, alleys, etc., for cars pulling into my path.

But as a driver (and a lawyer), I don't get too caught up in who has the right of way. It's just not a debate I'd want to lose the hard way, i.e., by hitting someone or otherwise causing an accident. I drive defensively whether I'm in my car or on my bike.

[guest1]

some people ride bikes

some people are cyclists

some people are roadies - they ride on the road

some people are mountain bikers - they ride on trails

there are those who do both while racing -- they are cyclocross racers

there are no sidewalk cyclists

some people ride bikes -- please do NOT confuse them with cyclists!

[snapdragen]

It's against the law to ride on the side walks here. From the DMV Handbook:

Bicyclists:
must ride in the same direction as other traffic, not against it.

must ride in a straight line as near to the right curb or edge of the roadway as practical— not on the sidewalk.

must make left and right turns in the same way that drivers do, using the same turn lanes.

may legally move left to turn left, to pass a parked or moving vehicle, another bicycle, an animal, or to make a turn, avoid debris, or other hazards.

may choose to ride near the left curb or edge of a one-way street.

may use a left turn lane. If the bicyclist is traveling straight ahead, he or she should use a through traffic lane rather than ride next to the curb and block traffic making right turns.

are lawfully permitted to ride on certain sections of freeways, when signs are posted. Be careful when approaching or passing a bicyclist on a freeway.

Drivers must:
look carefully for bicyclists before opening doors next to moving traffic or before turning right.

safely merge toward the curb or into the bike lane.

not overtake a bicyclist just before making a right turn. Merge first, then turn.

[Kalidurga]

some people ride bikes

some people are cyclists

some people are roadies - they ride on the road

some people are mountain bikers - they ride on trails

there are those who do both while racing -- they are cyclocross racers

there are no sidewalk cyclists

some people ride bikes -- please do NOT confuse them with cyclists!

I guess I'm not really a cyclist after all, because I feel like I have to put myself in the "some people ride bikes" category. I can't remember the last time I rode on the sidewalk, but I really hate to be limited as to what surface I can or cannot ride upon. Once I learn how to bunny-hop, I may find I just have to pop over a curb onto the sidewalk and back down just for the fun of it. If that makes me not a cyclist, then so be it ;)

[Duck on Wheels]

It's against the law to ride on the side walks here. From the DMV Handbook:

Bicyclists:
must ride in the same direction as other traffic, not against it.

must ride in a straight line as near to the right curb or edge of the roadway as practical— not on the sidewalk.

Of course, this could be because in California, the let's drive there state, sidewalks are kept to a minimum so as not to "steal" space from the road. Whereas in Norway, sidewalks are many places built double-width with a dividing line so that half the sidewalk is a bike lane. That could explain why we're allowed to ride on sidewalks here, but only as long as we're not a nuisance to pedestrians, and are willing to forfeit our right-of-way at intersections.

As for who's a cyclist ... We just had a debate here about the definition of "Norwegian". The chairman of the Language Advisory Board put his foot in his mouth, had to extract it and apologize. The outcome is that anyone who lives in Norway is free to call him/herself a Norwegian. I think the term "cyclist" should be similarly defined: Anyone who rides a bike and wants to call him/herself a cyclist should be free to do so.

[doc]

some people ride bikes

some people are cyclists

some people are roadies - they ride on the road

some people are mountain bikers - they ride on trails

there are those who do both while racing -- they are cyclocross racers

there are no sidewalk cyclists

some people ride bikes -- please do NOT confuse them with cyclists!

That's just silly. I am a real roadie. I ride with the big boys and often make them eat dirt. However, if I'm out cycling with my 2 little girls, I'll be on the sidewalk. I educate them again and again and again that pedestrians have the right of way. But I'd rather they live and the drivers sure don't care so...

[mimitabby]

That's just silly. I am a real roadie. I ride with the big boys and often make them eat dirt. However, if I'm out cycling with my 2 little girls, I'll be on the sidewalk. I educate them again and again and again that pedestrians have the right of way. But I'd rather they live and the drivers sure don't care so...

Yesterday, I rode my bike 6 miles on the road and 3 blocks on the sidewalk.
when riding on sidewalks, I go slowly and obey all rules for pedestrians (don't cross the street until there is a walk sign, look both ways before going out into the street, yield to people, even stopping and getting off if necessary) Sometimes true cyclists find themselves on sidewalks because there isn't a better way to get from point A to point B (like crossing a busy multiple lane street)

[Grog]

That's just silly. I am a real roadie. I ride with the big boys and often make them eat dirt. However, if I'm out cycling with my 2 little girls, I'll be on the sidewalk. I educate them again and again and again that pedestrians have the right of way. But I'd rather they live and the drivers sure don't care so...

I hope there are no alleys, driveways or similar car exits along your way... A little guy (7 y.o.?) on my old street, riding with daddy on the sidewalk, was almost run over by a car coming out of a driveway, not even especially fast. Kids on bikes are much lower than adults, and as someone mentioned earlier, even careful drivers when they drive out (or worse have to back out) of driveways sometimes have very limited vision. Hence they have to get their front wheels on the sidewalk to see anything in front of them.

Of course it all depends on how your neighborhood is built. But in mine I'd rather ride the bike path with the kids or take them to a park and then ride.

[Deborajen]

In my hometown, it's legal to ride a bike on the sidewalks except in the downtown business district. We also have a "bike path" system (it's not the best), and some of that system is sidewalk. Although I prefer to ride on the less busy streets, you can't always get from point A to point B that way and if there's a short stretch of heavy traffic to contend with - on a street with no shoulder, I'd definitely get on the sidewalk - go nice and easy and watch all around - rather than put myself out with tons of machinery cutting around me by inches.

Although I agree it's a good general rule to ride on the street and not the sidewalk, never say "never." --

Deb

[Aint Doody]

I agree with Deb--never say never. There are some busy, busy bridges with no cycling lanes but sidewalks. I certainly will ride on those sidewalks.

[Geonz]

In my hometown, it's legal to ride a bike on the sidewalks except in the downtown business district. We also have a "bike path" system (it's not the best), and some of that system is sidewalk. Although I prefer to ride on the less busy streets, you can't always get from point A to point B that way and if there's a short stretch of heavy traffic to contend with - on a street with no shoulder, I'd definitely get on the sidewalk - go nice and easy and watch all around - rather than put myself out with tons of machinery cutting around me by inches.

Although I agree it's a good general rule to ride on the street and not the sidewalk, never say "never." --

Deb
Sounds a whole lot like Champaign-Urbana and my decision process.

A dogmatic soul is going to find *some* reason to shut me out anyway... if it weren't that trip on the sidewalk, I'm sure there would be some other equally arbitrary label that would suffice. I'm not a cyclist because - oh, heaven forfend! - I actually *think* and decide instead of following The Dogma (Not a law, now... just somebody's dogma). My karma long since ran over my dogma.

[Kimmyt]

I agree with Deb--never say never. There are some busy, busy bridges with no cycling lanes but sidewalks. I certainly will ride on those sidewalks.


Man, that sounds like my commute! 3 lane on either side, and no shoulder, just a concrete divider between the 'pedestrian walkway'. Even worse, it raises up so that once you chug up it, there's little vision behind you if you need to change lanes. On my commute, I have to make a left after this bridge, so that means I need to change 3 lanes (4, including turning lanes) to get suitably in the left lane to turn, while people are going 35-45 mph up over this hill. If they go too fast (and this is often wall to wall traffic) there's no way in heck they'd see me or be able to brake in time.

I solved this by riding on the pedwalk (and even that is scary, barely wide enough for one bike with cement barrier on one side and 2 story drop to the Schuylkill on the other) and then cutting through the sidewalk and parking lot of the Frosty Falls ice cream parlour. I ride the sidewalk until a point where traffic slows a bit or there is a crosswalk, and then move across the lanes.

I should take a picture of it some time. It is one of the only times I have ridden on the sidewalk on my road bike, since learning better.

It was truly a hair-raising section of the commute until I figured out the sidewalk thing!

K.

[Pax]

Sounds a whole lot like Champaign-Urbana and my decision process.

A dogmatic soul is going to find *some* reason to shut me out anyway... if it weren't that trip on the sidewalk, I'm sure there would be some other equally arbitrary label that would suffice. I'm not a cyclist because - oh, heaven forfend! - I actually *think* and decide instead of following The Dogma (Not a law, now... just somebody's dogma). My karma long since ran over my dogma.

Sue, your commute is NUTS! :eek: I can't imagine braving Bradley Ave. every day...I'd be up on that sidewalk in a heartbeat.

[xeney]

Actually, it is legal to ride a bike on the sidewalk in California in some cities. Local laws sometimes permit it. I have heard (but don't know for sure) that it is legal to ride on the sidewalk in Los Angeles. Here in Sacramento, I always thought it was illegal but then found out that it is legal in residential areas.

[Bikingmomof3]

If I can find a sidewalk, it would be illegal for me to ride on it.

[7rider]

I pretty much ignored this thread until I saw the post about PM's, so I took a gander over here.

In Montgomery County, Maryland, it is legal to ride on sidewalks in the business district. In fact, their multi-modal transportation hub (both current and planned revisions) in the downtown Silver Spring area (where I work) integrates hiker/biker trails right alongside the bus depot with bike parking right at the mouth of the entrance to the Metro (subway) station. It's all one big mish-mash. There is no viable way for me to get to my office via bicycle without spending at least SOME time on the sidewalk.

[Chimiska]

"Right of way" is never something you have: it is something you GIVE. Give it as often as necessary to stay alive!

I thought sidewalk riding was always illegal: I am glad to learn it is not. I will have to check local laws and see what they say here. On my favorite ride, there is a short block of sidewalk that is really safer than making a left turn onto a busy street, and then immediately another left turn on to the side street.

[pooks]

Well, I just checked it out and in that area it was illegal for them to ride on the sidewalk.

Which doesn't mean I'd do the same thing again. I found it disturbing how easily I knee-jerked a decision that would have been different if they'd been in the street.

It's really kind of odd because I've seen them ride in that same street many times (assuming it's the same missionaries) and there wasn't a lot of traffic that day. The sidewalks have all been "ramped" so that wheelchairs can go up and down them easily, so there's no need to bunny-hop them, so I can see the temptation on a busy day. But this day? Not busy.

Which raises another question -- there are a couple of people in wheelchairs that I've seen in the STREET even after dark, when the sidewalks are all accessable!

Crazy world.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Which raises another question -- there are a couple of people in wheelchairs that I've seen in the STREET even after dark, when the sidewalks are all accessable!


"Real" wheelchairists ride on the sidewalk.

;)

[pooks]

Lisa. Your room. No chocolate. No telephone.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Lisa. Your room. No chocolate. No telephone.


:( :( :( :(
(slinking off, lower lip trembling....)

[KnottedYet]

I saw this bumpersticker on the back of a wheelchair (not kidding!)

"Don't like my driving? Get off the sidewalk!"

Some of the motorized wheelchairs are so top-heavy and have such small wheels that i don't think they can be at all comfortable on those wheelchair ramps at the sidewalk crossings.

My cousin had a motorized chair for bad days, but he didn't like it much. He attached a snowplow to the front of it and burned out the motor plowing his driveway... He can seriously kick b*tt in his handcycle. He'll ride 50 miles without blinking. And he pops his manual wheelchair up and over rocks and logs and curbs... he's a nut. (he's a 20-something, what can ya say?)

BTW, the bumpersticker wasn't on his chair, it was on someone else's.

[pooks]

Your cousin rocks!

[donnambr]

I'm of the "never say never" camp, but I do have a strong opinion about the young, male LDS missionaries on their bikes: If the LDS church is going to send these young men out into the world with their bikes as their main form of transportation, they should darn well send them to a LAB Road I training beforehand. I think it's just criminal to make them go out there and use their bikes with few if any traffic skills. They should also be educated on the traffic laws as pertains to cyclists of the area where they will be having their mission.

Perhaps if any of you who are reading this are LDS, you can suggest this to the relevant folks in your church structure?