Interview Etiquette

[CycleChic06]

I know, this is totally OT, but I guess that's the point of this particular board.

I have an interview on Tuesday and after an exhausting search for a new suit I now face another conundrum. The suit I bought has a skirt, although most suits now seem to be pants, I thought it was just more expected for women to wear skirt suits (is it?).

But my real question is...ok, now i have this beautiful brownish/gray suit from Ann Taylor...am I supposed to wear panty hose? Normally if the suit was black, there'd be no question that I would wear black hose, but it's brown...and aren't sheer hose looked on as slightly tacky?

It's a marketing/product managers job and how I present myself is important and I'm afraid of making a faux pas.

Any ideas???

Emily

[LBTC]

Sorry I can't help with the etiquette.....I haven't worn hose of any kind in so long I don't even know what the sizing looks like! :) (and I have been known to wear skirts to the office)

Good luck with the interview - just be yourself! You know they'll want you!

~T~

[Trek420]

I'm the wrong one to ask about panty hose :D

And it's been almost 12 years since my last interview. Some things I think are still true.

Monochrome suits are pretty standard on an interview so your suit sounds wonderful. But what will you wear for the 2nd interview?

You can take the same suit and dress it up or down with matching slacks, take the same jacket different skirt, add a scarf (not too flamboyant, you want them to see YOU, think less jewelry not more)...build for the 2nd interview.

What do you need to bring? If you carry a bag, it has to match or leave it home or in the car. PDA or cell? Turn it off.

What do THEY wear? Some people will literally stake out the co. Nooo, not so security boots you out but see what employees wear. Casual? Or business attire?

Just remember when it comes to casual these people already have the job. They may be wearing jeans...you can't...yet.

Most important thing is wear a smile, especially at the end of the interview, smile, shake their hand (if that seems appropriate), send a follow up thank you letter approx two days after.

Good luck!

[DrBadger]

First off, congratulations on the interview and finding a great suit!

To address your questions, yes, it is still considered better for women to wear a skirt suit (as wrong as that may be) especially in more traditional or conservative buisnesses. As for pantyhose, yes you should wear them, and nude hose aren't tacky as long as they are the right color. Make sure you find some that match your skin tone the best and fit well. You also probably don't want any that are too shiny. you can get some other interview attire tips if you google "interview attire", a lot of university career centers have this kind of info on their websites.

Good luck on the interview and let us all know how it turns out!

[Dogmama]

One of my roles is to interview potential staff employees.

Hose - yes absolutely. Sheer hose is NOT tacky. White hose with your outfit would be tacky. Or brown/grey hose with black shoes. You really cannot be too conservative for 99% of most jobs. Watch the details. Make sure your shoes are polished, your nails are manicured (no black nail polish), etc. First impressions are lasting impressions.

If there is a second interview, I would invest in another suit. Maybe pants this time. Trek is right - monochrome is best and watch the flashy accessories.

This is important - if you're handing them something written, make SURE the spelling and grammer are correct. I work at a major research I University and I cannot tell you how many resumes I review that have gross errors. It speaks volumes, IMO, about the applicant's attention to detail.

Are you being interviewed by a committee? If yes, make eye contact with the person who asks the question, not just the Big Boss. Be prepared for the lame questions like, "What is your greatest asset and what is your biggest flaw."

Don't bad mouth your previous place of employment, boss, etc.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

Oh - be sure to let us know how it went!

Oh oh - a thank you note. Very important. Not emailed. Through U.S. postal service. You can have it ready & send it after you leave. That is assuming they aren't making up their minds that day. Even so - send it. There could be a delay and your note might be the deciding factor.

[Triskeliongirl]

I algree that the suit sounds perfect. Skirt suit is considered more professional and sheer pantyhose are not tacky but expected in most circles. Make sure to not wear open toed shoes. I learned a bit about 'professional dress' from an argument with a fellow medical school admissions committee member. Believe it or not she didn't want to admit a women who committed the sin of wearing open toed shoes to her interview. You can tell which side of the arument I was on, but what I tell my daughter is that you want to be sure to not offend anyone by how you are dressed. It goes without saying you should look neat and professional. Well groomed, but not covered in makeup, etc., at least if you want to get into medical school. As for the particular job you are applying for, I have no clue.

[Timine]

One of my roles is to interview potential staff employees.

Hose - yes absolutely. Sheer hose is NOT tacky. White hose with your outfit would be tacky. Or brown/grey hose with black shoes. You really cannot be too conservative for 99% of most jobs. Watch the details. Make sure your shoes are polished, your nails are manicured (no black nail polish), etc. First impressions are lasting impressions.

If there is a second interview, I would invest in another suit. Maybe pants this time. Trek is right - monochrome is best and watch the flashy accessories.

This is important - if you're handing them something written, make SURE the spelling and grammer are correct. I work at a major research I University and I cannot tell you how many resumes I review that have gross errors. It speaks volumes, IMO, about the applicant's attention to detail.

Are you being interviewed by a committee? If yes, make eye contact with the person who asks the question, not just the Big Boss. Be prepared for the lame questions like, "What is your greatest asset and what is your biggest flaw."

Don't bad mouth your previous place of employment, boss, etc.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

Oh - be sure to let us know how it went!

Oh oh - a thank you note. Very important. Not emailed. Through U.S. postal service. You can have it ready & send it after you leave. That is assuming they aren't making up their minds that day. Even so - send it. There could be a delay and your note might be the deciding factor.

+ 1
Absolutely agree with you!
I work in a human ressources department. :)

[KSH]

+ 1
Absolutely agree with you!
I work in a human ressources department. :)

+2!

Can I also add... DO NOT WEAR ANY PERFUME.

I interviewed someone with so much perfume on... as she walked through the office people were practically gagging. I smelled "her" in my office for about 2 hours after she left. GAG!

And DO NOT WEAR a lot JEWERLY. A wedding band, fine.

10 bracelets and gawdy necklaces... not fine. Yes, I had 2 interviewees wear distracting jewerly. One of them was going in to a presentation and I had her take her noisy charm bracelet off. Another one had like 5 gold rings on and bracelets up her arm.

[Trek420]

...... and take out the exotic piercings :) :cool: ;) :p :D

cover the tats..... :) ;) :rolleyes: lastly no poppy seed bagels from here on out young lady because you'll test positive for opiates when they do the drug test.

[Mr. Bloom]

Emily, I agree with everything said above, but I'd like to offer a perspective beyond the suit/hose...

The attire is a first impression (an important one...) and by its nature 'fleeting'. Once you get into the interview, it will be the strength of your character, qualifications, and abilities that prevail.

Don't get me wrong, appearance is important, but the mental preparation and the mental "sale" will ultimately prevail. Go in there feeling good about your appearance, BUT know who you are, know why you're the person for the job, tell them (in a tactful way - not arrogantly) what you bring to making their team better.

I've found that some of the best insights actually come from the "lame" questions...they tell me who knows themselves well.

Best Wishes for a Great Interview

PS: Don't oversell yourself for the job...if you're not the right person for it, you'll only make yourself (and them) miserable by getting it. Be YOU!

[Dogmama]

+2!

Can I also add... DO NOT WEAR ANY PERFUME.




Yes! For two reasons: 1. Some people are really allergic to perfume. 2. Scent hits the part of the brain that connects directly with feelings. So, if your awful step mom wore Chanel, you will call up those same feelings automatically.

Re: Mr Silver - thanks for the man's impression. I agree that strength of character will sell yourself. BUT, I always note inconsistencies in dress, especially carelessness. Maybe I'm wrong, but my dept has been burned so many times by people who interview well but are wrong for the job on many levels. The last two (for the same job - boss is really awful) I voted against and was overruled. Both lasted about three months. For the last victim, (I mean new employee:p ), we hired a consultant who did a personality profile. As usual, I disagreed with the committee and the consultant agreed with me!! But guess who they hired...? <heavy sigh....>

[Bluetree]

It might be regional, but few women here in SoCalif (except in the legal profession) wear hose anymore, depending on age and the shape of your legs, of course. That said, it couldn't hurt, as long as the hose is the right color.

And make sure the suit fits well! Ill-fitting and tight clothing looks like you don't know how to present yourself... thus how can you make presentations? Invest a few dollars in a tailor and make sure your sleeves/hems are the right length, waist is not too baggy/too tight etc.

And agree... nix the jewelry and perfume.

One more thing (as someone who has interviewed people)... body language is important!

• Make eye contact - be confident

• Keep your chin up and shoulders back - no slouching!

• And... Give a firm handshake! I can't tell you how unimpressed I am by a woman's limp-wristed paw. That body language tells me that they're not really interested nor confident.

Good luck!

[Duck on Wheels]

It might be regional, but few women here in SoCalif (except in the legal profession) wear hose anymore, depending on age and the shape of your legs, of course. That said, it couldn't hurt, as long as the hose is the right color.

Well, maybe not in SoCal, but I noticed that CycleChic is in MA. It's winter. It can be cold in MA. Hose are definitely appropriate. Maybe even some of the warmer kind if they look nice and "preppy" with the suit and the colors work. Try the outfit on and give yourself a once-over in the mirror the day before: Do you look like somebody you'd trust to give you advice in a bank, say? Fine, then. You can stop worrying about the outfit and shift focus to your message: What do you feel you have to offer in that particular job? What do you want to ask about the job and the firm? If the outfit is blandly serious and neat, that fleeting first impression is fine. The rest comes down to believing that you do have something to offer (which WE know you do!), while accepting that they might have other expectations (ones you, and we, don't necessarily agree with, but that they're entitled to). That way you go in there confident but not smug, just stressed enough to stay focused but not so much that you're tongue-tied. It's ok to be nervous. Just breathe deap and count to 10 before you go in, and remind yourself that hundreds of smart and experienced TE gals believe in you and have their fingers crossed for you.

[Bad JuJu]

As if you haven't had enough advice already :D , let me add that if it sounds like the right job for you, and you're the right one for the job, you tell them that. It can be a nice parting shot, even, to let them know how confident you are that you are the right person to do this job.

[SheFly]

Grat advice here, and I don't have much to add. Definitely wear the hose (from a hiring manager's perspective, you would look "odd" without).

Second, I agree that a Thank You is CRITICAL after the interview. However, if the job is at a high-tech company, it is perfectly acceptable to send it via email - that is what we expect. I know that I have had instances where I needed to make a decision on a candidate really quickly, and receiving a thank you note in the mail a couple of days later was too late.

BTW - Ann Taylor has landed me my last three jobs :D . Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

SheFly

[Kimmyt]

Good luck on the interview! Ann Taylor set me up for my last interview.... gorgeous black skirt suit and a really nice green/yellow silk shirt with pattern.... under the black suit the color really popped without being glaring and it allowed some personality to show.

While it is usually the personality that will get you hired, a good appearance doesn't hurt... especially if some of your interviewers are female (or male for that matter, I think in business situations people tend to react better to those who appear 'put together').

I'm sure you'll do great! Cycling makes great legs for showing off in business suits! :)

K.

[Triskeliongirl]

I liked hearing the male perspective, and of course the content of the interview is important, but perhaps men don't even realize how important appearance is in making that critical 'first impression.' For men business attire is pretty clear, not a lot of choices. But since women have so many more choices, ranging from the color of their suits, their style, how they accesorize, makeup, perfume, etc., the choices they make can effect how *some* people view them. Now, I work in profession where clothes aren't supposed to matter (I am a scientist and professor) but I learned as a young graduate student they do when I went to the lab of a new collaborator to start a new project, and had him react to me by saying 'I asked for a scientist and I was sent a little girl.' Of course his impression of me changed after I produced numerous highly cited publications which we co-authored.... but if I had to interview for that opportunity I probably would not have been hired. When I intereview folks for either jobs in my lab, or jobs as faculty colleagues or dept. chairs, clothes have very little importance. The ability to communicate well does, the ability to intelligently talk about past work and future plans (as appropriate for the job) are critical. It goes without saying that a poorly written resume or research plan make you dead in the water. This is because we have a short period of time in which to determine if someone will be successful in the job, and success usually mean the ability to consistently produce high quality work. If someone can't even get their resume right, what kind of worker will they be. Another thing that is attractive in prospective employees is a high energy get it done attitude. You want to feel that the person you hire is going to pursue their work with vigor. The clothes are simply about not offending anyone and showing them that you understand what is considered appropriate attire for the specific situation, part of showing you are clued in and appropriate for the position. Its only the first 5&#37;, but neverthless something that in *some professions* if you screwup can have the person not want to take you seriously. Its probably just as wrong to show up for an interview for a very creative position in a suit as it is to wear jeans to an interview for a corporate post. The biggest mistake I have seen young women scientists do is dress so provocatively in a professional situation that they end up elliciting dates and not job offers. That doesn't mean you don't want to look attractive, regardless of gender or sexual orientation we all like to be around attractive, pleasant, highly functioning people.

[mimitabby]

the male vs female perspective on hiring speaks volumes for the different reception men and women get at a job interview. Here where I work, we have seminars for professional men and women; and for the women, there is always "how to dress for an interview" and for the men, this subject is never mentioned.
I have been here for 25 years and have seen how the men and the women prospective hirees dress, and I'll tell you, the men come in wearing colorful sweaters or formal neutral colored suits and get hired in either.
Most women interviewed come in wearing dress suits, which is rather ironic considering this is a laboratory environment and they're going to be going up and down ladders and getting dirty so once they are hired they're not going to wear a dress again. I think I've worn a skirt twice in 25 years here, and that does NOT include my interview.
Having said that, listening to all you have to say scares the pants right off of me, I hope I never have to interview for a job again. Because if wearing panty hose and polished shoes is what's going to get me a job, I'll never get one.
mimi

[mimitabby]

The biggest mistake I have seen young women scientists do is dress so provocatively in a professional situation that they end up elliciting dates and not job offers. That doesn't mean you don't want to look attractive, regardless of gender or sexual orientation we all like to be around attractive, pleasant, highly functioning people.

Trisk, there was an article in the NYTimes about that very thing, young female doctors wearing low necklines and short skirts and sexy shoes were really lambasted. They were considered much too distracting for the job they need to do. (I for one would not appreciate a doctor who looks like the girl who does nails!)

[Triskeliongirl]

Trisk, there was an article in the NYTimes about that very thing, young female doctors wearing low necklines and short skirts and sexy shoes were really lambasted. They were considered much too distracting for the job they need to do. (I for one would not appreciate a doctor who looks like the girl who does nails!)

Its interesting you say that, because as I mentioned before, I got into an argument with someone over how a medical school applicant should dress for an interview. The folks that feel strongly about professional dress say that it shows they understand how to make their patient comfortable. If they don't wear the uniform so to speak, then the patients will have trouble both identifying them in the hustle and bustle of a hosptial environment and and more importantly, trusting them and taking their advice. For guys its easy, wear a blue suit, white shirt, dress shoes and tie. The successful girls wear the female equivalent, but the ones that try to express more of their personality so to speak don't. Its funny, you'll see a bunch of them in the corridor waiting to be intervied, and you know the pretty girl in the pastel suit isn't gonna make it. I am glad my job does not require a uniform.

[Offthegrid]

Lotsa advice ... must be a bit overwhelming. But I will just add that I read in a book once that a candidate got a job over another because he stood up when people came into the room to interview him. So I do that now, too. And mail that thank you note the second you leave the office so it gets there soon.

GOOD LUCK!

[mimitabby]

Yes, squeakywheel works too.
When I applied for this job, they wanted a guy to come back who'd left this lab. I was not the most qualified for the position, but i really wanted the job. I called once a week for about 3 or 4 weeks. At that point, they gave up on the other people and since I was persistent, I got that job.

[CycleChic06]

Oh my, I really had no idea I would get so many responses and so many helpful tips!!:eek:

I really appreciate all the responses, I knew I could get some good straight answers on this site, and I really appreciate the tips from all the HR people and hiring managers.

The company is an extremely small (12 people in total) company that does support research for the pharmaceutical industry. So it's a place that larger companies would turn to for outsourcing certain areas of research. My background is in pharmaceutical research and this would be a big jump for me with a lot of responsibilities into the more marketing and product management end of the business.

This is will actually be my second visit. I went in yesterday as a 'pre screen.' I was told it was not formal and would be just a look-see for me and the owner of the company. Since it was not an official interview I went the dress pants and a button down shirt instead of a suit. It may have been a mistake since a friend of mine who works there emailed me that day and said go buy a "knock-out suit" for the next interview, since "image is important when you are interacting with client." So that's where I am. I'm you've all convinced me - i'm going with the sheer hose! :D

But an interesting side note. I was all set to send a thank you note the next day via email the next day, but before I could the, owner of the company emailed me to set up my next interview. The business world, epsecially biotech moves very fast and I wonder if written thank you notes sent by mail are outdated...the world travels too fast for it now.

Thank you for all your help and interesting insights, I'll let you know how it goes.

Emily

[CycleChic06]

lastly no poppy seed bagels from here on out young lady because you'll test positive for opiates when they do the drug test.

Hee hee, this advice makes me laugh :p Probably the most useful piece of info ;)

[Kimmyt]

I work in Pharm and let me just say that EVERYTHING is done via email. No mail in anythings unless its industry rags or catalogs. Every interview I was at, if I sent anything to the company it was an email to the person I had interviewed with. These seemed to go over favorably. The problem in Pharm is that many people are rocketing around from place to place so don't have time to answer phone calls, read their snail mail. Email can be accessed from anywhere on their trusty lappies.

Anyway, good luck on your second interview! If they responded to you that quickly, I'm sure you impressed them favorably!

K.

[DebW]

The biggest mistake I have seen young women scientists do is dress so provocatively in a professional situation that they end up elliciting dates and not job offers. That doesn't mean you don't want to look attractive, regardless of gender or sexual orientation we all like to be around attractive, pleasant, highly functioning people.

When I started as a scientist in the early 80s, you didn't see women dressed provocatively at professional meeting, but now you do. That may have been due to the fact that there were very few women in the physical sciences at the time (2 women in a room of 100 men was probably the norm), and most of us were rather odd-balls. Now such a meeting may be up to 20% women so maybe there's just more diversity. Now you see many women at professional scientific meetings in very feminine clothing, and those are mostly the younger women. Personally, I wear what I'm comfortable in (men's Dockers, button shirt, and running shoes) and I'm sure the colleagues who know me would faint if I ever did otherwise.

[DrBadger]

Having just gone through interviewing with technical companies this fall (oil industry though for me), I would suggest e-mailing a thank you letter ASAP after the interview, even the same day if possible. And then following up with a mailed hard copy. THis way you get the thank you in while they are hopefully still making decisions, but also have the formality of mailed thank you, which should only reinforce that they made the right decision in hiring you :-)

[Kitsune06]

I 2nd PABadger. That's what I did. Knowing your interviewer helps, too. do what you can to pick up personality traits and cues from their actions etc.

It's best job hunting when you don't *need* the job right then. Then you can be picky and choosy. My current manager is just incredible, sweet and understanding (which has helped a lot lately) and just clicked with my personality.

My dress is relatively unconventional... pinstripe suit w/ varying shirts underneath- for very formal occasions, I'll wear a white (though it turns bluish purple in wrinkles etc) silk shirt underneath, kind of a traditional chinese shirt... and polished boots. One of my greatest assets is my personality, and the right employer gets to know that quickly... for better or for worse. :rolleyes:


Uh... reading Trek's. If we're going to "go there"- if it's necessary, yes there are pills available to allow you to mask the presence of naughty no-no in your blood/saliva/urine and I've uh... er... known people who've used it successfully, but why leave it to chance? Fake urine is available at a very comparable price and is guaranteed. Keep the hotpack on the bottle or nuke it for awhile and wear it against the body. Gotta keep it at or around 99 degrees, (hence the liquid crystal thermometer tape on the side of the pee cup)... because varying heat will be cause for failure of the test. These bottles also have an unnerving rate of leaks so be sure to check for that before you go, too.
PM me if mmbr.

[SouthernBelle]

I have to ask why you think neutral hosiery are outdated?

& don't wear black stockings as some people think they are only appropriate for evening. I do like them with a black skirt myself.

[bcipam]

Although its not really required any longer to wear hose with a suit or dress for an interview I would. It just shows respectfulness and that you are serious about meeting with your potential employer. Do your best to look your best. Everything is noticed!

And neutral colored hose only! no - colors not even black!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Uh... reading Trek's. If we're going to "go there"- if it's necessary, yes there are pills available to allow you to mask the presence of naughty no-no in your blood/saliva/urine and I've uh... er... known people who've used it successfully, but why leave it to chance? Fake urine is available at a very comparable price and is guaranteed. Keep the hotpack on the bottle or nuke it for awhile and wear it against the body. Gotta keep it at or around 99 degrees, (hence the liquid crystal thermometer tape on the side of the pee cup)... because varying heat will be cause for failure of the test. These bottles also have an unnerving rate of leaks so be sure to check for that before you go, too.
PM me if mmbr.

Probably a good idea to avoid not only poppy seed bagels before your interview, but also those ever popular Bruegger's heroin, crack, testosterone, peyote (my fave), and morphine bagels as well. I heard the "Everything" bagels just sort of cancel themselves out however.
Another tip: neutral "suntan" pantyhose worn on the arms can diminish unflattering track marks.

[RoadRaven]

Another tip: neutral "suntan" pantyhose worn on the arms can diminish unflattering track marks.

ROTFLMFAO

You really crack me up Lisa!!!
Sssssso funnneeee.....

Thanks my morning smile... now, I'll just go warm up THAT bagel for my post-ride snack!

[snapdragen]

Another tip: neutral "suntan" pantyhose worn on the arms can diminish unflattering track marks.

Got any hints for that pesky "meth mouth"? Not to mention the lesions, so hard to cover with makeup.:p

[mimitabby]

Got any hints for that pesky "meth mouth"? Not to mention the lesions, so hard to cover with makeup.:p

eyewwwwwwwwwww gross. what's really tough is hiding the "i slept in these clothes" look.

[Kitsune06]

*shudders* Uh.... yeah. I'm thinkin' if you're doing those things, your interview results would be the *least* of your concerns. :eek: :eek: :eek:

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Got any hints for that pesky "meth mouth"? :p

First, you shouldn't make fun of people with lisps. :cool: And the answer to your question is- change the litter in your mouse's cage more frequently.



(JUST KIDDING!!!!!)

[Duck on Wheels]

Defffinitely leave the mouse cage at home, neat or not. I would never take my pet mouse to a pharma research outfit! :eek:

[Triskeliongirl]

When I started as a scientist in the early 80s, you didn't see women dressed provocatively at professional meeting, but now you do. That may have been due to the fact that there were very few women in the physical sciences at the time (2 women in a room of 100 men was probably the norm), and most of us were rather odd-balls. Now such a meeting may be up to 20&#37; women so maybe there's just more diversity. Now you see many women at professional scientific meetings in very feminine clothing, and those are mostly the younger women. Personally, I wear what I'm comfortable in (men's Dockers, button shirt, and running shoes) and I'm sure the colleagues who know me would faint if I ever did otherwise.

Yeh, I remember being the only female in my physical chemistry class at Brandeis, the only female in a room of 20 men at lab meetings when I was a post-doc at MIT, also in the late 70s-early 80s. And yeh, dressing provovatively was not an issue then. But, I have had students I advise complain to me that they got more offers for dates than jobs when presenting work at a scientific meeting. So, I ask them, OK, then why did you wear black leather pants and a sheer black low cut blouse for your presentation? What message were you sending by wearing those clothes? I don't wear suits either. In fact, once I was chairing a national meeting at a fancy hotel in DC, and the hotel staff stopped me as if I didn't even belong in the hotel when I was coming back from the rest room.

[Mr. Bloom]

Triskeliongirl: You're right, women have more options and it is harder. Silver will attest that each day I wear:

- a dark grey suit (Brooks Brothers)
- a starched white shirt (Land's End...I have about 30 to minimize trips to the cleaners)
- a stripped tie (I have about 60 or 80)
- Black J&M's or Cole Haan's (same style in black)

To me, it's practical to not have to worry about even what color shirt to wear. Thank goodness I'm a man...I couldn't handle the complexity!

Deb: Frankly, I AM intimidated by a woman dress provocatively (I don't mean feminine...I mean provocatively). I'm not afraid of women...but, in a professional environment, I tend to distrust someone who is using their gender (male or female) to business advantage. It makes me wonder what flaws they're trying to distract me from.

For the record:
- I'm an executive officer in a public company
- I am in an industry with gender balance at the professional level
- and in the last 15 years of managing people, I've allowed ZERO gender disparity in compensation in my units

[snapdragen]

First, you shouldn't make fun of people with lisps. :cool: And the answer to your question is- change the litter in your mouse's cage more frequently.



(JUST KIDDING!!!!!)

**groan**:p

[sbctwin]

It would also be worthwhile to look at "what am I willing to give up for this job". I only say that because at age 51 I thought I finally had the job, the company where to work until I retire. I worked for this company like a dog. I gave it all to them. I worked on this conversion and put in many hours (more than 40, 50, 60 hours per week) and was told that I would be re-trained. I worked when my doctor told me I would get well from bronchitis if I gave myself a "break" and call in sick. I didn't. My health suffered because I wanted to "prove" myself. I made it through the conversion (2 1/2 yrs). I worked to make sure the data converted met the company requirements. The company sent me to 1 class to "re-educate" myself in the "new technology". I was successful in doing the projects assigned me, but was laid off one year after the conversion was completed. I out-performed my male counterparts, yet, I was laid off. I guess I am still angry at the company. My age, my sex, and my religion played a part in why my positiion. No proof because this is a "right to work state" and it is difficult to prove any kind of discrimination. Eight months later, I finally landed a job at 1/3 the salary, but when I look back, I did all I could to be successful at my job, at all jobs I had. At my age, now, I think, "what am I willing to give up for THIS job". I guess I am bitter, but now I make sure I work my hours, and only my hours (no overtime) and I do the best job I can. I am not a slouch. But, I also realize that I make my future, I make my happiness....Sorry if this is melodromatic, but I guess I still feel used...

[LBTC]

sbctwin, I'm sorry for your experience, especially at an age when you should be enjoying the fruits of a long and successful work history.... I have been there before, only to the point of the extra work not be recognized, and being expected, and asked, repeatedly to go well beyond the scope and compensation that my position afforded. Almost a year ago, I managed a miraculous move from a divisional support office in the middle of nowhere, to become the assistant to the Treasurer in the Corporate Office. I love my job now. It definitely is challenging and there definitely is a lot of work, but the atmosphere is fabulous - in fact, earlier this week I was feeling a lot of anxiety over the parts of my job that I simply could not get to - there is not enough time in a month for someone to do this unless they put in those terribly long hours (I'm doing work that 1 full time person, one half time person, and work that one full time person said was 60% of her time, plus an implementation project, which is hopefully nearly at completion). I've recently been diagnosed with Crohn's disease and absolutely refuse to become too stressed at any job...partly because of past experiences, partly because my health has suddenly become something extremely precious to me! Anyway, today I made one simple request and next Monday I'll have someone from the office pool helping me with a backlog of scanning, indexing and filing. This makes me feel like a million bucks!

Of course, I really needed that uplift considering all the conflicting emotions I've felt as I read through this thread! I did a lot of interviews to get to this position at the corporate office and I think I broke most of the rules for what to wear to an interview! I always wear a ring on every finger!!! What would the point be in taking them all off and them thinking they've hired someone they didn't? I was determined to be myself. So my clothes definitely had colour and character, and my jewelry was on the mild side of chunky, I never wore a skirt because it was winter and I didn't have the right shoes and I hate to wear hose, :eek: :eek: (how did I ever get the job???) but at least I didn't wear perfume or really provocative clothes!!! And even at that I still bought a whole new wardrobe! hahaha

I'm so grateful that they accepted who I am, and how I present myself. I don't think that anyone is at all disappointed in my performance, even though I don't put in 12 hours days - ever. (I've hit 9 1/2 once or twice, but I'm pretty firm on the 8 hour thing). Life is better here!!

And naturally I sent a thank you by email, but it included a photo from my collection.

Cyclechic, you're going to knock 'em dead. Remember all that you have to offer them! BE you! You'll nail it!

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

[winddance]

I think everyone's covered the "what to wear with what" thing. My only advice is to make sure that your clothes fit properly. A few dollars spent to take in a jacket or fix the length of a hem can go *really* long way.

Good luck!

[Meaux]

I'm not sure if this is too late, however, I was told not to bring a purse/bag into an interview. And don't wear red, it makes you look aggressive. :) I'm lucky, I've only HAD to wear a suit a handful of times at my job. I work at a VERY liberal law firm. Yay for casual EVERYDAY!!!!

[CycleChic06]

Probably a good idea to avoid not only poppy seed bagels before your interview, but also those ever popular Bruegger's heroin, crack, testosterone, peyote (my fave), and morphine bagels as well. I heard the "Everything" bagels just sort of cancel themselves out however.
Another tip: neutral "suntan" pantyhose worn on the arms can diminish unflattering track marks.

OMG, this is so hysterical!!! I once tried an everything bagel and woke up three days later in a ditch on the side of the New Jersey Turnpike with a bird sitting on my head.

And Kitsune06 - Not like I've ever had to employ ANY of those techniques before, my friend told me the pills work really well;)


I'm not sure if this is too late, however, I was told not to bring a purse/bag into an interview.

Really no bag to an interview?? Not even a small purse? I'm not sure what I'd do with my car keys, wallet cell phone, planner, etc...that I always carry with me. I can't think of any other alternatives.

[CycleChic06]

Also, I spoke with my friend again who works at this company already and she was telling me that the owner is a very shrewd business person and he's going to try his best to get me as cheaply as possible. I'm awful with salary negotiations and I tend to think that most (but not all) women tend to be less upfront when negotiating salaries. Does anyone have any tips for me?

Emily

[LBTC]

Really no bag to an interview?? Not even a small purse? I'm not sure what I'd do with my car keys, wallet cell phone, planner, etc...that I always carry with me. I can't think of any other alternatives.

A briefcase! I always bring a freshly printed colour resume for each of the interviewers to the interview. Have to put them somewhere, so the briefcase it is...I was told this made a huge impression at one of my interviews.

~T~

[Blueberry]

I'm lucky, I've only HAD to wear a suit a handful of times at my job. I work at a VERY liberal law firm. Yay for casual EVERYDAY!!!!

Why can't we have those in North Carolina????? The one negative on my recent review was that they didn't think I dressed "professionally" enough. WTF???? I wear a suit everyday. The person reviewing me had the audacity to suggest that I employee her personal shopper. Ummm....no.....I have no desire to wear clothes that are her "style" - very bright colors, wide belts, large houndstooth print, etc. UGH - NOT for me! Guess black/gray/navy doesn't cut it when you work in her department.....

Oh yeah - interviewing advice - I've been doing a lot of that lately...Here's what works/doesn't for me...

1) Most women do come with a small handbag and a portfolio. Perfectly acceptable.
2) Men - DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT come to an interview in a seersucker suit with a straw hat...
3) While you're at it, don't tell a female interviewer that you want to be a part of the "good ole boys network...
4) Or that you don't think women make good attorneys (I'm not making this up)...
5) Women - DO NOT dress like Ally McBeal - Skirts OR pants are OK, but it better be a matching suit and the skirt really shouldn't be so short you have to pull it down when you sit...
6) Don't wear heels so high you wobble when you walk (some other employees in my office could learn from that one too)...
7) Hose are required with skirts for an interview. Black seems to be OK now, if going neutral - "oyster" tends to be a good color (on the pale side of suntan seems to be in style now)...It should not be the really dark I've been out in the sun all year no one could be this tanned "suntan"...
8) Lay off the perfume (Miss Giant Houndstooth could stand to learn that lesson - I gag in my office for 15 minutes after she leaves)...
9) Once you've been given a position with the firm for after law school, DO NOT wear a dress cut down below your bra line *in the front* to the office Christmas party....

That should do it :/ Of course, it depends on who you interview with and his/her style. Most of the men in my office wouldn't notice if I wore sweatpants to work.

[Mr. Bloom]

...she was telling me that the owner is a very shrewd business person and he's going to try his best to get me as cheaply as possible. I'm awful with salary negotiations and I tend to think that most (but not all) women tend to be less upfront when negotiating salaries.
Emily

Isn't this the way of things?:) :)

If you REALLY want this job and there are many qualified candidates, he has the upper hand. Focus on getting something far to start with specific criteria to earn specific raises in the future. Maybe determine if there are non-cash benefits that can close the gap...

If you REALLY want this job and there are few qualified candidates, then the question is whether you have the moxey (and poker face) to POLITELY imply your willingness to not proceed (or be slightly pensive in your response) if it's not going your way...

In either event, be armed with salary comps for the position to support your case.

Don't feel bad about asking for something. HOW you handle it will determine the extent to which he respects you later. There is no advantage to being taken advantage of...

[pooks]

You don't have to say yes to the job/money in front of him, either!

The idea of wearing a suit of any sort w/o hose blows my mind. I know that seems to be a trend, but to me it just looks odd, and since I have sweaty feet, gross.

Each business has its own "uniform," and you have to look around and dress appropriately for that business, or as the guy who wrote DRESS FOR SUCCESS says, dress for the job you want, not the job you have. My husband took that advice a couple of decades ago and it has always served him well.

And as for Southern Cal -- that's another place where industry/position makes a difference. I've been in and out of several agencies in Beverly Hills and the agents (female, of course) I've seen have always worn hose with their 2,000 buck designer suits.

I'm one of the few women on earth who loves pantihose. I love the way my legs feel -- slick and sexy -- when I wear them. I'd hate to have to wear them every day again, though.

[winddance]

Also, I spoke with my friend again who works at this company already and she was telling me that the owner is a very shrewd business person and he's going to try his best to get me as cheaply as possible. I'm awful with salary negotiations and I tend to think that most (but not all) women tend to be less upfront when negotiating salaries. Does anyone have any tips for me?

Emily

Here's what I was taught:

Don't name a number. Do your research and find out about what it is that you should make. Be honest about your salary history, but when asked to name your salary expectations just say "competitive" or if it's on the application, leave it blank or write that. If you name a number, it might be below what they're prepared to offer you, and then you lose. If you name a number and it's higher than what they're prepared to offer you, they might not offer thinking you'll decline. Then you lose.

Let them come to you with a number first. That way, you know where they stand and it's up to you to consider it and either accept or begin negotiations. You don't have to accept right away. If they really want you, they'll be flexible. If it isn't negotiable, then it's up to you to decide how much you want the job at what they're offering.

[Triskeliongirl]

The idea of wearing a suit of any sort w/o hose blows my mind. I know that seems to be a trend, but to me it just looks odd, and since I have sweaty feet, gross.

I am really curious about this. If you don't wear hose then what do you wear? Are you saying you wear a skirt suit with bare legs? To me that would look just so wrong. Do people actually do that in CA? Now, in summer I would would wear a skirt with sandles and no hose, but that would not be considered 'professional' just a comfortable thing I would do personally cuz I dress casually for work.

[lph]

This thread is terrifying. I am never going to apply for a job again in my life :eek:

I got my existing job on a perfectly written application and the ability to nod and smile and interject the occasional funny comment while my three interviewers chatted blithely among themselves.

[Dogmama]

This thread is terrifying. I am never going to apply for a job again in my life :eek:

I got my existing job on a perfectly written application and the ability to nod and smile and interject the occasional funny comment while my three interviewers chatted blithely among themselves.

I had an all day interview with key faculty members, lunch with the dept head and interviewed by three different committees. Talk about stress!

Salary negotiations:

1. Know what others in your field make. Add or subtract your experience and/or educational background. Come with data - be able to name sources.

2. If you cannot get your salary now - ask that you be reviewed in six months. Make it clear what you want (salary wise) if the boss is naming a figure below your figure.

3. This is touchy - your friend has a perspective that may - or may not - be correct. Perhaps s/he was offered a lower salary, or knows others who were, but perhaps those individuals are not as qualified as you. In other words, don't take one person's comment as truth.

[Mr. Bloom]

These are just my final thoughts and then I'll leave you alone...remember, however you handle this, don't be provoked by us to doing something that you're not comfortable with. BE YOU, BE COMFORTABLE...we're not in the heat of your battle...


Here's what I was taught:

...Let them come to you with a number first...

Everything winddance said is good advice.

So if they won't come up with a number...how do you get them to? You have to know how you will respond before you're in the negotiation.

Scenario One: He won't offer a number:
Boss: What do you want to make?
You: I'd like to be competitively compensated.
Boss: OK, but what does that mean to YOU? [Here's the tough part because he's putting it back in your court]
You: Well, market surveys are for this position to be in a range of $XXX and here are the reasons that I'm worth $xxx [This way, it's not YOU, it's the market] and I'd like to think that we could come to an agreement that is within this range.
Boss: [He'll either object or not...if so, try to keep the dialogue going and always leave the door open]

Alternatively, he's calibrated himself to your expectation...but remember, if there are many qualified candidates, you have less leverage if they're willing to accept less...this is something your friend needs to advise you on...if you trust her.

Scenario Two: He offers a low number
Boss: What do you want to make?
You: I'd like to be comptitively compensated.
Boss: Well, we had $xxx in mind [and it's low]
You: Oh! I really had expected that the range for this would be $yyy. Here are the reasons why I feel that I bring this value to your company...[know them and list them]
Boss: [Again, he'll either object or not...if so, try to keep the dialogue going and always leave the door open]

If it's not going well, take POOKS advice and ask for some time to think about it...in fact, even if he offers you more than you expect, it's good to express your satisfaction but still ask for a day or two to think about it before accepting.

Good Luck

[SheFly]

The other thing to keep in mind in your negotiations is that non-salary benefits may make up for a lower number. To me, three weeks vacation vs. two is a bigger bang than extra $$ (sometimes), and this is a bit easier to negotiate! Also, do they offer things like tuition reimbursement, great health benefits, profit sharing, 401K matching, etc.? These all add to your bottom line, and people often forget that.

For example, if your job offer were for $10K, but your benefits were completely paid for (and decent), that increases your bottom line by approx. $2500 (meaning you are now not paying this out of your $10K).

Bottom line is, consider the entire offer, not just the salary when determining whether to accept the position. For me, it is more about work/life balance at this point.

Good luck.

SheFly

[mimitabby]

I'm one of the few women on earth who loves pantihose. I love the way my legs feel -- slick and sexy -- when I wear them. I'd hate to have to wear them every day again, though.

Pooks, I have nothing against Panty hose, but they are not as comfy as soft wool socks, and bottom line, the stuff you wear OVER the panty hose is REALLY uncomfortable. (dresses, skirts) :rolleyes:

LPH, I agree with you!! Not even volunteer work! If i have to go through a big PROCESS, the h e l l with it.

[LBTC]

This thread is terrifying. I am never going to apply for a job again in my life :eek:


Yes, this is what I was trying to say earlier! Terrifying!
~T~

[emily_in_nc]

I am really curious about this. If you don't wear hose then what do you wear? Are you saying you wear a skirt suit with bare legs? To me that would look just so wrong. Do people actually do that in CA? Now, in summer I would would wear a skirt with sandles and no hose, but that would not be considered 'professional' just a comfortable thing I would do personally cuz I dress casually for work.

Re-read her post: she said "w/o" hose...she feels the same as you! :cool:

Emily, who is happy that she dresses casually for work too...I haven't even worn a skirt in years!

[Trek420]

This thread is terrifying. I am never going to apply for a job again in my life :eek:

I got my existing job on a perfectly written application and the ability to nod and smile and interject the occasional funny comment while my three interviewers chatted blithely among themselves.

I got my present job by passing a series of tests. After being whittled down to a smaller group by other tests I recall for the final service rep test 90 people were in the room with me, 3 of us passed and the other two probably knocked out by the drug screening or the background check.

Many are called, few are chosen :p

I'm union so I never have to negotiate my own salery, which is good for folks like me who truly sock at that. In the almost 12 years I've been here we've been on strike once (4 days). So there is that risk. That was an interesting experience.

Wages are well....good, probably twice what I'd make in non-union customer service.

Benefits are great and time off? Much more than anywhere else, so far about 4 weeks + holidays + unpaid time off if I can afford to take unpaid time.

On the other hand the work's much more demanding than those jobs in many ways. The co. pays us more, they can ask a lot of us and they do.

I hope I never have to interview for a job again because I truly sock at negotiations .... but it's nice to know some of what to do if i had to.

[Triskeliongirl]

It might be regional, but few women here in SoCalif (except in the legal profession) wear hose anymore, depending on age and the shape of your legs, of course. That said, it couldn't hurt, as long as the hose is the right color.


OK, I quoted the wrong post, but I am still baffled that in CA women don't wear hose with a suit.

[CycleChic06]

Hmmm...there is a lot of advice on here. I agree that my friend's (she's actually my former boss and is now my friend) experiences may be vastly different from mine, and that I shouldn't take everything she says word for word. She was just trying to help me by telling me her experience.

I'm not sure I agree with the letting them name a number first. I'm expecting to be low balled, and I'm expecting for them to name a number that's below what I'm making now. I'd hate for them to do that and then have to work my way up from there. I'd rather start high, ask them for 10% more than I'm making now (which I don't think is unreasonable for changing jobs) and have them knock the number down. If they laugh at the number I tell them, it's up to them to give me a reasonable number and I can work the situation from there.

I'm not desperate for a job, I actually still kinda like the job I'm in now, it's just that the one I'm interviewing for offers me new oppurtunities. So that gives me an upper hand in this situation and from what I they told me, they want to get someone in there 'fast' so it seems they are somewhat desperate to hire someone, which gives me an even higher upper hand. This is business and I'm not going to be walked all over in this situation.

[CycleChic06]

Isn't this the way of things?:) :)

If you REALLY want this job and there are many qualified candidates, he has the upper hand. Focus on getting something far to start with specific criteria to earn specific raises in the future. Maybe determine if there are non-cash benefits that can close the gap...

If you REALLY want this job and there are few qualified candidates, then the question is whether you have the moxey (and poker face) to POLITELY imply your willingness to not proceed (or be slightly pensive in your response) if it's not going your way...

In either event, be armed with salary comps for the position to support your case.

Don't feel bad about asking for something. HOW you handle it will determine the extent to which he respects you later. There is no advantage to being taken advantage of...

You give in an interesting prespective. I want this (as opposed to REALLY wanting this). I think it would be an exciting oppurtunity for me. At the same time I'm slightly apprehensive as the benefits aren't nearly as good as I'm getting right now. As my dad said, it's like buying a car, you have to have the mindset that you are willing to walk away. If I go in there saying this is the only job for me and I really want it, I'll get steamrolled in negotiations.

[emily_in_nc]

OK, I quoted the wrong post, but I am still baffled that in CA women don't wear hose with a suit.

I'd noticed this on TV, that the "beautiful people" (typically women in their 20s-early 30s, tan, fit, real estate agents and the like, etc.) don't wear stockings with suits and business dresses. But, many women do not fit those parameters! I for one would not want my spider veins, freckles, and scars hanging out for all the world to see at a job interview.... :eek:

Found this post on a website:


Dear Kathi,

Is it optional to wear nylons at work these days? I work at a bank and would love to forgo the pantyhose ordeal.

Christy, Del Mar

Christy,

The business environment in Southern California is more casual than most other cities. With the warmer climate, women often wear sandals and open-toed shoes 6-9 months of the year. In my opinion, with the proper shoes, you can dress very professionally without hose.
With this in mind, if you are still doubt about your particular bank, ask a trusted manager. If this isn’t possible, pay attention to your superiors. Does everyone wear hose every day?
It pays to dress similar to your superiors. It makes it easier for them to see you as a pier and your chances for advancement are increased. Some banks are still very conservative and you don’t want to jeopardize your job advancement.
Remember, dress not for the position you are in, but for the position you aspire to attain.

Kathi is a professional organizer, image consultant and event planner based in San Diego California.

I really do think at least SoCal is a different from the rest of the world, but I would definitely wear hose to an interview, even if wasn't going to be necessary after getting the job.

Emily

[Duck on Wheels]

... It makes it easier for them to see you as a pier ...

But would I want them to see me as a pier? Personally, I'd rather be seen as the sailboat.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

But would I want them to see me as a pier? Personally, I'd rather be seen as the sailboat.

Har har, I was about to say that!
Then if they don't like you, you can tell them to take a long walk on a short pier! :rolleyes:

[SouthernBelle]

It also pays to talk good and spelt stuff write at work. So be similarly with your supers.

[Dianyla]

...... and take out the exotic piercings :) :cool: ;) :p :D
Ha! If the piercings in question aren't concealed with normal clothing, then they're not truly exotic in my book! I work in a pretty conservative healthcare environment - only 4 of my 11 holes are publicly visible.

Up to two piercings per ear is typically considered acceptable as long as the jewelry is in good taste and the piercing in question is not very extreme. Traditional lobes and some discrete cartilage piercings are usually well-tolerated. Noticeably heavy gauge items (if the gauge is in single digits or measured in inches that's a bad sign), plugs, or chunky industrial jewelry is just not going to fly. Most facial piercings such as lips, septums, brows, and tongues are pretty much out. The only facial piercing I've seen be generally accepted in professional environments is a small nose stud - no actual rings or tacky Christina nosebling.

Also, you can get flesh-colored retainers to wear in piercings at least for the interview. If you land the job, you can wear these retainers daily if needs be.

[Kitsune06]

I have a black niobium septum retainer for that very reason. At 12g, it's not very noticeable at all... Oh, and I have actually not yet run into problems with my tongue pierce, though I'm sure it's an eventuality. I removed it for interviews. Hard to hide once you get into single digits with those, too. :eek:
My 1/2 inch lobes are generally decorated with flat black horn plugs. Women can get away with solid plugs more easily because it's 'just an earring'. wear hollow ones and then more conservative folks go :eek: . I know.

Like you only 4 of my 10 are visible. My tattoo is invisible in normal work clothes.

Hygiene about piercings is absolutely important. Hence my organic plugs. Funk happens, but much less so with organics (bone, wood, horn...) and if you keep them clean and oiled, so much the better. Silicone (esp. the new implant grade ones from Kaos now) is very passable, too, but you should always remove it to give the fistula (yes, the insides of piercings are called that too) a chance to breathe. Skin is skin.

Oils vary in lubricity. I use vitamin E on my plugs and Lavender on a couple barbells, where a very light oil is necessary.

Happy piercings don't produce as much funk. Funk smells nasty and is one of those things that cannot be covered up. How does this tie in with Interview/Work etiquette? You had to ask, huh? I worked with a girl for a while, very nice, very sweet, had ear funk that I just could not stand... and tried to cover it up with perfume. :eek: :rolleyes: Do not be that girl.

[Trek420]

It also pays to talk good and spelt stuff write at work. So be similarly with your supers.

There's spelt under the pier :)

Otherwise you'd be a dock....dock in pay.

[Mr. Bloom]

You give in an interesting prespective. I want this (as opposed to REALLY wanting this). I think it would be an exciting oppurtunity for me. At the same time I'm slightly apprehensive as the benefits aren't nearly as good as I'm getting right now. As my dad said, it's like buying a car, you have to have the mindset that you are willing to walk away. If I go in there saying this is the only job for me and I really want it, I'll get steamrolled in negotiations.

CC06...with this perspective, you don't need to be a good negotiator...you've got the upper hand...you win either way. Sounds like your dad knows what he's talking about too....

Let us know how it goes.

[winddance]

Everything winddance said is good advice.

I should totally frame this...:cool:

(really, I have to credit everything I said to a particularly awesome college professor. But still.)

[Dianyla]

I worked with a girl for a while, very nice, very sweet, had ear funk that I just could not stand... and tried to cover it up with perfume. :eek: :rolleyes: Do not be that girl.
OMG, I'm dying here. :D There's just not enough patchouli in the world to counter that funk. Speaking of which don't get me started on funky dreads, either! :eek:

[CycleChic06]

Happy piercings don't produce as much funk. Funk smells nasty and is one of those things that cannot be covered up. How does this tie in with Interview/Work etiquette? You had to ask, huh? I worked with a girl for a while, very nice, very sweet, had ear funk that I just could not stand... and tried to cover it up with perfume. :eek: :rolleyes: Do not be that girl.

I honestly had no idea that ear funk even exisited, had a name and smelled bad. I mean, it comes from a piercing in your ear...and it smells bad. Blechhh...excuse me while I go puke, it just sounds soooo nasty.

[mimitabby]

I honestly had no idea that ear funk even exisited, had a name and smelled bad. I mean, it comes from a piercing in your ear...and it smells bad. Blechhh...excuse me while I go puke, it just sounds soooo nasty.

my ears have never smelled bad, but they reject every kind of earring known to mankind. It makes me sad, too, because I love earrings and for a while, my husband was buying them constantly for me, and a lot of his choices were excellent. But invariably, those two tiny holes, when filled with a clean stud of
24 k gold, stainless steel or whatever else, will start getting red and sore and swollen before the day is out.
Once about 5 years ago, I was on broad spectrum antibiotics, so started again with the earrings to see if we could get over the infection cycle.
Until the antibiotics regimen was over, I could wear earrings. Then the swelling and soreness came back.
It blows my mind that people can have holes in their noses and lips and...
and I can't even have holes in my earlobes!

[pooks]

I am really curious about this. If you don't wear hose then what do you wear? Are you saying you wear a skirt suit with bare legs? To me that would look just so wrong. Do people actually do that in CA? Now, in summer I would would wear a skirt with sandles and no hose, but that would not be considered 'professional' just a comfortable thing I would do personally cuz I dress casually for work.

I either misspoke or you missunderstood. I said that I can't imagine NOT wearing hose with a business suit. I rarely go without hose when I wear a dress, for that matter. I just prefer them.

ETA: I should have read the rest of the thread -- that got straightened out!

mimitabby, I have the same issue with earrings and even necklaces and bracelets. I can't wear a watch, either.

[Duck on Wheels]

earings, bracelets, watch ...? Sounds like nickel allergy. I had to invest in a titanium watch (no nickel). Expensive, but put an end to the rash on my arm. I can still wear earings, but not all day. Just for a few hours on special occasions, and must be gold or surgical steel.

[colby]

I highly recommend this book. It's called "Women Don't Ask" and is about general negotiation and communication differences between men and women in business.

http://www.amazon.com/Women-Dont-Ask-Negotiation-Gender/dp/069108940X/sr=8-1/qid=1168410091/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-9454952-1118540?ie=UTF8&s=books

I also recommend Val Henson's Salary Negotiation HOWTO (free! - she's the big reason I even know that book exists, too):

http://infohost.nmt.edu/~val/howto_salary/

It's not easy and there ARE differences between how women are negotiated with and how women negotiate (or don't!).

[Duck on Wheels]

Just checked back on the first post. The interview was yesterday. So .......? How'd it go???

[RoadRaven]

Adding my wing-flaps to Ducks... how'd it go?

[CycleChic06]

Sorry, I never posted a follow-up, I'm still trying to digest everything. I think it went well. And ladies, I looked fabulous in my sheer nylons and closed-toed shoes. ;)

I went in for what was supposed to be 2 hours of interviewing, ended up staying for lunch and being there for a total of 5 hours, talking with different people. I was surprised that I didn't get too many of the typical interview questions. In fact, I didn't get many questions at all, aside from why do you want to come here, what is your background, blah blah. I was bracing myself for my most hated interview question "what is your biggest weakness?" and it never came up. But it was odd that the interviewers did more of the talking. I had a few questions for them about working in a small company, but across the board it seemed to be them talking the whole time, which struck me as a little strange. But then again, these are scientists and (being a scientist myself) I know we're not known for our great social skills.

I got the impression from my friend that they really liked me and want me for the job and judging by my discussions with the pres of the company, depending on how the salary negotiations go, they're prepared to make me an offer. It's a really big decision and there are a lot of pros and cons to weigh. The good thing is, I'm not desperate, I have a job that I somewhat like, right now. That gives me a great advantage in being able to take my time and think about this decision. Though not too much time, I need to have this wrapped up in the next few weeks because I'm going away for a whole month (!!), which they are aware of. I will keep you all updated as things progress.

Thank you all for your suggestions, advice and humor!

[pooks]

Sounds like you rocked the casbah!

[Duck on Wheels]

Waytago cyclechick! What with the suit, the hose, the shoes ... and of course your skills, experience and personality ;) ... you really wow'ed 'em. I think it sounds like they'd decided already on the basis of your cv and were just calling you in for the "interview" to see if they could convince you to take the job. Scientists are used to focusing on the evidence rather than on anything as subjective as impressions, or at least we like to think we are.

[Mr. Bloom]

One with options is one to be envied.

You can go or you can stay...that's a good place to be.

[CycleChic06]

Sounds like you rocked the casbah!

Now that song is stuck in my head!!!

[RoadRaven]

Well done on having what sounds like a successful day there.

I doubt you would have been invited to hang around for five hours meeting and greeting unless you have at least made the short short list.

Congrats, sounds like you felt and looked confident and handled yourself professionally

[CycleChic06]

I'm getting a little nervous now. After I first met with them I heard back in hours. After this second meeting on Tuesday, they said I'd hear from the probably later on in the week, and it's later on in the week and I'm starting to get nervous since I haven't heard back yet. Ugh, maybe I was being overly confident in assuming I'd get an offer, but the discussions I had with them seemed to be moving in that direction. Or maybe this is a negotiation tactic. He has me sweat it out a little bit as he tries to get the upper hand in the situation.

Or maybe I"m just over analyzing this. He's probably busy, he does have a business to run, afterall!

[Thistle]

sounds like you blitzed it! :D

i have been reading this thread with great interest cos i have my first academic interview on mon :eek:

I hope i go as well as you did cyclechic!. I'm kind of nervous. I've been for a lot of interviews in my time, but never for an academic position (i'm doing my phd now). So i'm terrified about what they are going to ask :eek: :eek:

I am so nervous they are going to expect me to come up with a whole bunch of hugely interesting and inspiring topics i will offer any students i supervise.... but right now i'm so engrossed in writing up i cant see beyond my topic :( . I know i will come back from the SARMAC conference in July with heaps of ideas, so maybe i'll just have to give them that line :o

Am heading into supervision this morning, and my supervisor is going to help me prepare. I will be so glad when it's over :o

I keep telling myself, i'll be fine and if i dont get the job that's ok. I'll at least know what to expect next time :p

I know there are some academics out there in TE land... if you have any advice ... feel free to put it out. I didnt want to ask earlier cos i didnt want to hijack this thread...

[CycleChic06]

Good luck, thistle! I wish I could give you advice for an academic position, but I know it's a very very different world. I used to work in academia, but as a lab tech.

I'm sure you'll do great! Let me know how it goes.

And oh yeah, remember to wear panty hose and closed toed shoes with your suit ;)

[Thistle]

Good luck, thistle! I wish I could give you advice for an academic position, but I know it's a very very different world. I used to work in academia, but as a lab tech.

I'm sure you'll do great! Let me know how it goes.

And oh yeah, remember to wear panty hose and closed toed shoes with your suit ;)

Thanks Cyclechic!

I will wear closed toe shoes but i'm not going the panty hose. it's 39 degrees here today (102.2F)... i'd just expire :o

they are going to have to love me sans pantyhose :p

[Triskeliongirl]

i have been reading this thread with great interest cos i have my first academic interview on mon :eek: ...
I am so nervous they are going to expect me to come up with a whole bunch of hugely interesting and inspiring topics i will offer any students i supervise.... but right now i'm so engrossed in writing up i cant see beyond my topic :( . I know i will come back from the SARMAC conference in July with heaps of ideas, so maybe i'll just have to give them that line :o .

There isn't a lot of time between now and monday, but I would say that saying you hope to have some ideas after a conference is not the best idea. You should have a big picture plan in your head now of your research goals. Maybe this weekend you could make an outline, and then before the *next* interview flesh it out. When we hire faculty colleagues, the first thing we look at is passed research productivity, and the second thing is the significance, soundness, depth, and fundablity of the future research plan. Clothes don't matter. Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

p.s. If you are going to be giving a formal research presentation, that too is important since it is the best indicator they will have of your oral comm. skills, i.e. teaching ability.

[Thistle]

There isn't a lot of time between now and monday, but I would say that saying you hope to have some ideas after a conference is not the best idea. You should have a big picture plan in your head now of your research goals. Maybe this weekend you could make an outline, and then before the *next* interview flesh it out. When we hire faculty colleagues, the first thing we look at is passed research productivity, and the second thing is the significance, soundness, depth, and fundablity of the future research plan. Clothes don't matter. Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

p.s. If you are going to be giving a formal research presentation, that too is important since it is the best indicator they will have of your oral comm. skills, i.e. teaching ability.

Thanks Triskeliongirl. I'll spend the weekend doing that, and hopefully will be more inspired the next time round :o

I kind of wish they did have "job talks" cos i'd like to do a presentation on my research and i know if i'd had to prepare one i'd have had to come up with some decent ideas for future projects :o

my supervisor did a mock interview with me this morning, felt like hell, but at least it made me think about some things I didnt even know would come up :o :o

yikes i'm not looking forward to this :eek:

[Triskeliongirl]

...my supervisor did a mock interview with me this morning, felt like hell, but at least it made me think about some things I didnt even know would come up :o :o

yikes i'm not looking forward to this :eek:

Look do the best you can but don't sweat it. It sounds like maybe this interview is just a little bit premature, but use it to learn and better prepare for the next one. And who knows, depending on circumstances you could still get the job so don't give up before you start, just make the most of the short time you have to think through your future goals a little more clearly.