Child Placement - any attorneys here?

[mtbdarby]

Hi there,
I have been divorced for a year, we were separated for almost 2 years before that. My son is now 4 1/2 and lives with me during the week, and with my ex every 1st, 3rd and 4th weekends. We're each allowed to keep him for 1 weeks worth of vacation a year. This is our court mandated placement schedule.

My ex just called and informed me that he wants our son for the summer, from June to August starting this year. He starts kindergarten in the fall and of course, would be with me during the school year. We live about 160 miles apart. He has never exercised his right to take him for a weeks vacation even with my urging. I let him keep him an extra day on a weekend if it's a holiday so he can spend an extra day with him. Any time I've offered to let him have him for more time the answer is always no - he has plans or doesn't have gas money.

He is also an alcoholic. When he gets depressed he makes crank calls to me. The last one resulted in my calling the cops and him getting a verbal warning. If it happens again he gets a ticket and a restraining order.

He is threatening me that if I don't work this out with him, he will take me to court and to fight to change the placment and child support (his big driver). My questions are this:
- Since we are in different counties and my son lives here, can he go through the county were he lives (I do NOT want to have to take off from work to drive there for hearings). My son has residencey here, does that matter?
- He says he was told he has the right to have placement reviewed every two years. Is that correct?
- Where do I go to get questions answered - attorneys first, some family agency??
- any time I've offered to have him spend time with our son the answer is always no. Will this have any bearing on this?

Usually his threats are just that and fizzle out. This is the second time he's mentioned this so I want to be ready if he actually follows through with it. And I do not want this to go through his county - they are very liberal and it took almost 2 years and a lot of $$ because they made me bear the burden of proof that he's an alcoholic. I want whats best for my son but I don't want him hurt either. This kid is on the road a lot and I know he would like to spend more time with his dad.

To be perfectly selfish, if I agree (or have it forced on me), it would really hinder my bike rides on the weekend, lol. I couldn't race if I wanted or do longer distance rides without the expense of not seeing him.

TIA ladies....
-

[Offthegrid]

This is just awful. I am so sorry. I don't have kids and I can't truly empathize with the stress this must place on you, but just wanted to give you a big hug {{{Dar}}}

If you can afford an attorney, that'd be my first call.

[maillotpois]

Ditto. Call an attorney. Do you have any friends who have been through a divorce who could recommend one to you?

I am an attorney, but I know nothing about family law and even less about Wisconsin law. But what he's saying just doesn't seem right.

Good luck. And a hug.

[SouthernBelle]

The laws differ from state to state so only an attorney from your area can answer your questions with any specificity.

Generally the case stays with the court in which it was originally filed.

The 2 year thing may be Wisconsin specific.

Talk to a lawyer, not an agency. I've seen more bad advice given by agencies and police officers.

His prior history may offered in evidence.

[KnottedYet]

I went through a little cr@p with my kid and custody. I found a low-cost attorney through a women's resource center (money was/is not readily available in my little world). It was a great thing to do. I got to see what SKnot's dad could and couldn't do, and got my rights and the custody laws explained to me very clearly. The attorney also had other resouces I could contact.

Document everything, get the papers you have re: his alcoholism and the police involvement, find a lawyer, and get covered.

My custody and child support agreement is open for review every two years, but the restrictions on how things can be changed (and how much) are pretty tight. No major changes allowed for us without very good reason and a full review and more documents, etc. etc.

Your laws may be very different, but if you talk to an attorney you can get a better idea of what can happen.

Is he trying to cow you with the "summers" issue, to get you to accept less child support?

[bouncybouncy]

sorry...no kids...no advice that others have not already said...just wanted to say good luck!!!
...and maybe something to keep your hopes up in the near future: you got yourself a little crew support (water-bottle-hander-over) for all those races when this is over :) and he is a bit older ;)
well wishes your way------>

[mtbdarby]

I went through a little cr@p with my kid and custody. I found a low-cost attorney through a women's resource center (money was/is not readily available in my little world). It was a great thing to do. I got to see what SKnot's dad could and couldn't do, and got my rights and the custody laws explained to me very clearly. The attorney also had other resouces I could contact.

Document everything, get the papers you have re: his alcoholism and the police involvement, find a lawyer, and get covered.

My custody and child support agreement is open for review every two years, but the restrictions on how things can be changed (and how much) are pretty tight. No major changes allowed for us without very good reason and a full review and more documents, etc. etc.

Your laws may be very different, but if you talk to an attorney you can get a better idea of what can happen.

Is he trying to cow you with the "summers" issue, to get you to accept less child support?

Knot, I know that's where he's going with this. I expect him to ask me to pay him child support for the time he has him, which I doubt would happen. I did find documentation on the 2 year review from the initial agreement but only under certain circumstances. I'll talk to my buddy tonight and see if he has any info for me. Thanks for the ideas - I'll keep you posted.

[Aggie_Ama]

I agree with Knot about trying a women's center. A friend of mine is going through a nasty divorce with a man that has some personal issues (drinking, some emotional). The shelter considers her enough of a mental abuse case to help her find a low cost lawyer. I hope this works out best for you and your little guy.

[KSH]

Well, this sounds horrible. I don't have kids and I have no idea how hard this must be on you.

I wonder though... for him to challenge the visitation agreement... won't he need a lawyer? Lawyers don't come cheap and you mentioned something about him not having gas money to drive 160 miles?

Will he even have the money to pay for a lawyer?

And like Knotted said... I think he's trying to get an extended visitation with him so he can skimp on child support... and yes, even get it from you. Sounds like he's doing what he can to get money.

[Hub]

I used to work in Child Support- an 'enforcement officer'.- main goal was to obtain & enforce support orders, especially for folks on public assistance.

Anyway- your court order will remain tied to the original court- if you divorced & neogotiated the settlement, including custody & support, in your home county, that county retains jurisdiction. He's partly right, the support & visitation can be reevaluated every 3 (at least down here) years. You can also petition the court for a review - especially of the support if there has been a dramatic change in your circumstances- like if he got a new job making a LOT more money.

He can threaten not to pay CS, but it's illegal. If you can't get any help
enforcing the the support- you can contact your county Human Services office- they can track where he works- even if he goes job to job-
He would be in contempt of court if he refuses to pay- so once you get a contempt order- he can go to jail.

(It's not REAL easy or fun or fast, but don't let him push you around.)

Good Luck
& keep pedaling!

[Duck on Wheels]

Unfortunately, he may have found some sleezeball attorney who's willing to do this for a percentage of the "take". There are such animals out there in the zoo. So I'd say follow the good advice you've been given: Find an attorney (sometimes there are good ones who offer services through women's centers), get some preliminary advice, and collect documentation ... just in case. He may be bluffing, but you'll sleep better knowing you're prepared should he not be. The last thing you want is for your son to spend a summer with him while he's spending the child support money on booze. Better your son should see his dad only when he's sober.

[Bikingmomof3]

(((((((((((((((((Dar))))))))))))))))))))

I have nothing to offer but my thoughts and prayers and contact an attorney.

[anakiwa]

I don't know anything about this, but wanted to second some of the other comments.

Get a lawyer if you can afford one.

Start documenting all of this (even if this issue gets settled, it sounds like this guy is likely to be more trouble in the future). Get a notebook and start logging everything (dates, times: when he drops your son off, when he picks him up, when you offer hime more time, what his respose is, whatever)- if you do wind up back in court you'll be a lot better off if you can recite exactly what happened instead of being in a situation where it's your memory/word against his.

Good luck!

[Brandi]

coming from parents that used us kids as weapon's during their devorce I think keeping this as legal as possible is the best. Trying to prove he is a drinker would be the first thing. get records of the complaints you made about he's prank calling etc...
I am sooo sorry you are having to deal with this. There is nothing worse for a family then this crap! ( sorry)Good luck and hug your kids often and always let them know how much you love them! Mine got lost in all their junk and lost us kids.

[LBTC]

All I can offer is a hug {{{{{{{{{{Dar}}}}}}}}}} and my best wishes for a healthy resolution to this for you!

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

[doc]

Ugh. Dar I am so sorry you and your son have to go through this. It is so destructive. Definitely go to a women's resource center. You can start by contacting women's shelters if you can't find anything else. Hopefully they can hook you up with a low cost but very knowledgable attorney. Definitely don't try to do this without professional help.

Good luck and I hope this works itself out soon

[Tuckervill]

Dar, I think the advice for a lawyer is right on track. But I have another perspective that hasn't been addressed. First let me say that I divorced my first husband after 4 years and 2 kids. Those two are now grown, and they have shared with me some of their perspective of their growing up years. Second, if your son is in anyway vulnerable to abuse or neglect by being with his dad, adjust this advice accordingly.

I was adamant to make our divorce and custody issues as nondisruptive to their lives as possible. I don't have any problems with him. He paid child support and took the kids when it was his turn and was flexible with the arrangements. We didn't argue. It truly worked out quite well. BUT...

My kids still suffered. I eventually remarried and moved with them 6 hours away. They had a much better life and opportunity as a blended family than with me a poor single mother, and they love their stepdad, so I don't regret getting remarried. However, every 3rd week we drove them back home to see their dad, and it was brutal. Fortunately we only did that for a couple of years, but we were still 150 mies away after that.

My kids have said that they wish we had lived closer to their dad all through their childhoods. Not being able to go see him whenever they wanted was hardest when they were 8 and 9. I wish I had known this. There are lots of other things I wish I had known. We eventually did move back near their dad, and they were so grateful! But by then they were teens and the distance they naturally craved as teenagers was intensified. They needed their dad then more than ever, but they didn't feel so connected, you know? It breaks my heart to hear them reveal their perspective on that time. I didn't know. I couldn't know. I wish I'd known.

I'm sorry your son's dad is such a jerk. But he is your son's dad, and for your son's sake, do everything you can to facilitate the relationship while you still have the power to do so. If there is any way possible to live closer to him, I'd advise you to find that way. Your son will only be a child for a short time. If you blink you will miss it. Far be it for me to suggest you don't sacrifice for him, but maybe you can do a little more, by moving closer. Just for a time.

Good luck with the legal aspects.

Karen

[mimitabby]

gee, Karen
such wise words. My parents divorced when I was 6. I won't go into all my sad story, but you are absolutely right. The children always suffer.

[mtbdarby]

Karen, I appreciate your perspective and believe me - I've thought of that and often. I hate to admit this, but my biggest fear is MY safety. An alcoholic always has one person they feel the need to dump on and with him it's me. The police by him really don't care to deal with this domestic stuff, even though it's their job, but it's a bigger city and they have bigger fish to fry. They refused to deal with the harrassing phone calls - I had the department by me deal with it. If he wasn't an alcoholic, I never would have moved up here in the first place.

I am SO much happier up here! I have moved a half hour closer to him and asked him to move a half hour closer as well when he sold the house (which puts him closer to his work and in a cheaper to live county) and he refused. Up here he's close to my family and my ex's family so he gets to see them often, which he wouldn't get to do if we lived in Madison. For now we will stay here. Maybe in the next couple years, after my doggies are gone, I will consider moving closer. For now, we're doing the best we can with what we have.

[mimitabby]

The sad part of this is that in these situations, the person who usually wins is the lawyer. And you need one. I hope you find a big protective boyfriend soon too. This is really scary stuff. Hey, maybe a big protective LAWYER boyfriend?
:D

[ridethewind]

The sad part of this is that in these situations, the person who usually wins is the lawyer.

Actually, that's not true. There's no money to be made in handling cases like this. In many situations, the lawyers are lucky to get paid in full. Usually, neither party has a lot of money. I handled many such cases and frequently did not break even, particularly when I represented the woman. Sometimes, I took a case knowing that I would likely not get paid for the time I put into it because the woman needed help and she could not afford to pay what a lawyer would normally charge. There ARE lawyers out there who care and who are not just in it for the money.

[KnottedYet]

"the children always suffer"

Dar - my biological parents divorced when I was very young. In my case, the distance between them was not enough. It was an ugly ugly criminal situation. And the kids suffered. In a bad way.

If you have any concern that your son's care while at his dad's is less than adequate, please do all you can to protect him. If you are fearing for your safety from this man, does his behaviour reflect on your kid's safety also?

[donnambr]

I hate to admit this, but my biggest fear is MY safety. An alcoholic always has one person they feel the need to dump on and with him it's me.

I've never been married, never had children, but I did grow up in a home with a parent who was an alcoholic and drug abuser. I can't give you any specific advice about the legal aspect, but the idea of someone that young living (alone?) full time for such a long period with an alcoholic gives me cold chills. Right now, you may be the only person that your alcoholic ex dumps on, but sooner or later, it'll be your son, too. I think that kind of stuff hurts a young psyche far more than someone fully grown, you just may not hear about it until your son is older. I wish you all the best in protecting him from the brunt of that.

[Irulan]

just because he's an alcoholic, does not mean he's evil, just that he has an addiction. That per se isn't grounds for bad parenting but driving and supervising under the influence, and neglect due to being under the influence are. So document incidences, and then look into support groups for people who have to deal with alcoholics, like al-anon - it's free, and it's a great program.

~I.

[mtbdarby]

Actually, that's not true. There's no money to be made in handling cases like this. In many situations, the lawyers are lucky to get paid in full. Usually, neither party has a lot of money. I handled many such cases and frequently did not break even, particularly when I represented the woman. Sometimes, I took a case knowing that I would likely not get paid for the time I put into it because the woman needed help and she could not afford to pay what a lawyer would normally charge. There ARE lawyers out there who care and who are not just in it for the money.

RTW - oh, they got paid in full. It was their priority to make sure of that. I was neither impressed with the attornies nor family court and the guardium ad lietum about them putting my sons best intersest at stake. Family court and the GAL couldn't even be bothered to make sure my ex followed court orders - even when presented with evidence the he didn't and his own admission - in their prescense - that he wouldn't follow them. I know all attorneys aren't bad and the system is over worked, yadda, yadda, just don't get me started with the ones I had to deal with, 'K?

Irulan, I am an al-anon member. I never said he was evil either. He can be a very good dad when he wants to be, our son just hasn't been his priority. His #1 beef with the entire experience is that he has to pay child support. I called his bluff. I told him he could have him for a month this summer on a trial basis, but that I checked and they most likely wouldn't change his child support payments. Haven't heard from him since and he wouldn't talk to me when we exchanged ds this weekend.

Knot, thanks Hon. That's why I live up here:p I have no choice but to trust he will remain sober when he has our son - it's out of my control. I am a documenting fool and if he screws up he pays the consequence. My son's safety is my first priority.

I'll keep you guys posted on this. Thanks for sharing your experiences and advise everyone!