BIKES THAT FIT WOMEN under 5'4"

[mimitabby]

I would like to open a thread for those of us who are still searching.
I have been told that a Dama Bianchi Elle
http://www.bianchiusa.com/typo3temp/23f5daf639.jpg

would fit me, or a Ruby
http://www.specialized.com/OA_MEDIA/2007/bikes/Ruby_Pro_Red_Tint_w_Sliver.jpg

or a Gunnar. (this is the Gunnar sport)
http://www.gunnarbikes.com/images/Sport118web.jpg

I would really really love to get that Bianchi, but it doesn't take fenders, or if it does, they are jury rigged and tight. So please feel free to add to this thread, with photos and useful links so we can all find more cool bikes.

[mimitabby]

here's another one, a steel bike made by Bianchi.. Bianchi Eros Donna
what an awesome name. but what kind of fenders would fit it? (it's about $1600.00)

http://www.bianchiusa.com/typo3temp/fc4f410937.jpg



or the Waterford .. but they are sold as frames.
http://www.waterfordbikes.com/images/rs/rs2000.jpg

[KnottedYet]

Mimi- Flossie votes for the Gunnar or Waterford. Steel is real... And the Waterford cyclocross and road sport touring frames fit canti brakes and fenders just fine.

did Eric say anything about Rodriguez? All of those are custom, too. Or are you looking specifically for an off-the-shelf bike?

Mmmm, Waterford X frame or R/RST frame with all your components from your Bianchi and some nice Planet Bike fenders.... mmmmm.

[caligurl]

it's not JUST about height.. it's about proportions... i'm 5'3" with a shorter torso and longer legs.. thus i need WSD with their shorter top tubes and i ride a ruby pro....

[mimitabby]

Yes, Cali, you are absolutely right, but the average woman HAS shorter torso and longer legs, thus, the Ruby (yours) works, but some other smaller bikes (like my sweet Veloce) don't.
The PT guy told me that I should be comfortable enough on the hoods to leave my hands there 80% of the time. If you can't do that (I can't do that comfortably) then you need a shorter top tube.


Knot, I really am not ready (sigh) to spend on a custom bike. But you are right, the Waterford definitely has what it takes. I really want steel for my next bike.

I was steering Eric AWAY from Custom bikes at least for now, that's why he came up with the bikes that I started with on this thread; the Ruby and the Dolce and those Bianchi's. They do have the right toptube length, but there might still be other issues like toe jam ;)
And that Ruby is NOT a cheap bike.

[caligurl]

they have 3 different ruby's (at least last year they had three!) ! pro, comp and.... uhm... can't remember the 3rd one! all are nice bikes!!!! i'm SO glad i got mine last year cuz they hodgepodged the components this year rather then making the pro ALL dura-ace like last year's model! i understand why they did it (to give the ruby s-works the mostly dura-ace)... but still... i'm glad i got all DA including DA wheels!

[SadieKate]

Toe Jam - read this.
http://davesbikeblog.blogspot.com/2006/11/toe-overlap-no-problem.html

I have toe overlap on every single bike except for one. I ride 48-53cm bikes (depending on the builder's labeling). In 20 years of riding, I never noticed it until I joined this forum. I am mystified as to what the problem is with it.

I wish I could find more formal data, but the average woman does not have longer legs and a shorter torso. It appears to be more of an arm length issue or just the way we flex.

http://womenspecific.com/cycling/35/is-your-body-women-specific--
http://www.active.com/story.cfm?story_id=13161&category=Cycling&num=0

[caligurl]

i have no toe overlap on my ruby... and it's a small bike (48).... specialized customized the fork to help alleviate the toe overlap problem!

[SadieKate]

Cali, did you read the article? I'm only pointing this out because 1) there can and are handling problems with some bikes due to the manufacturers trying to get rid of toe overlap and 2) the outcry against toe overlap is vastly overated.

My LBS won't recommend certain WSD bikes (I wish I could remember which) because the handling is screwed up simply in the attempt to get rid of toe overlap.

The Ruby may be fine, but one needs to think about this when choosing a bike. I'll take handling over toe overlap every time.

[caligurl]

the ruby handles flawlessly..... smooth and VERY responsive..... unlike some company's that just slap a WDS label onto their bikes..... specialized puts a LOT of work and reasearch into their WSD products....

i have the best of all worlds: a bike that fits (wsd), no toe overlap on a very small bike, and superb handling!

[mimitabby]

that's great, good to know. I am supposed to test ride one.

[Triskeliongirl]

I wouldn't rule out framesets. As someone mentioned, you can always move the parts from your veloce assuming they are in good shape. Now that someone is helping you define the geometry you need, maybe you could get a good deal like I did on ebay on a frame, and then just move over the parts. We've discussed fit for women endlessly, and you know where I stand on this so I won't repeat myself, but lets address the fender issue. Basically the bikes you are looking at are pure racing bikes, they won't take fenders and won't take even slightly wide tires. If you want a bike that is both light and takes fenders and wider tires (say 28-32 c) why not look at a light steel (i.e. reynolds 853 steel frame) with canti brakes. Veronica's legolos is an idea, as is what I did to my terry isis, but these were both custom designed. Smaller framebuilders tend to do this more than the big chains. Rodriguez does this, Waterford does this, Bilenky has a nice bike called the tourlite that does this (and you could get s/s couplers for travel). Yes, custom is expensive, but if you get the bike you want it will be the last bike you buy. Consider it a health expense. Given that Rodriguez is local for you I would look at them very seriously, but maybe someone locally (craigs list, etc) would have a used rodriguez they are trying to unload. I was very pleased with the custom work bilenky did for me. I think what you are looking for is what is called a sport bike or a light sport/tourer. A real touring bike will be too heavy, but a racing bike will not take real fenders. The new terry madeleine will do what you want, but it is aluminum which while light may not be as harsh or last as long as steel.

[Kathi]

Mimitabby,

Did your fitter indicate that you would be happier with a custom frame or did he think that you can get optimal fit on a stock frame? And, what do you want? A good fit or optimal fit?

Since you like steel you can get a custom steel frame from Serotta for $1800
http://www.serotta.com/pages/cda.html
If you like your components from your old bike you can move them over to the new frame, cost would be in the ball park of a stock frame.

The advantages of buying a custom frame over a stock frame are numerous.
You have a fit designed for you. I can't tell you what a joy it is to ride a bike that fits your body. Your body settles onto the bike so naturally. No adapting itself to the frame. Besides, everyone is different, I no longer believe that women have a shorter torso theory.

I had my custom Serotta built for 650c wheels. There is such a world of difference between it and my stock bikes in the handling. It does not have the short twitchy feeling that the stock bikes have. It corners faster and handles better on the downhills. I didn't notice these differences until I got the Serotta.

My custom frame is my 5th road bike. The first 2 were way too big and I sold them. The 3rd I spent some money trying to make it fit better but gave up and bought my Aegis. Like you, I spent money trying to get a good fit on the Aegis and wasn't happy. By contrast, my Serotta needs no changes because it was designed for me.

Think of it this way, what if something isn't quite right with the fit of your new stock frame, what will you do? A custom frame now means no more seeking the perfect fit.

As far as toe overlap goes, a custom builder will take that into consideration. Serotta told me that I would have slight overlap but I've not noticed it. And, if you want it built for fenders, I'm sure Serotta can do it!

[spokewench]

I've had 4 different 50cm bikes. I'm almost 5'4" but I probably don't have as short a reach as you do Mimi. However with regard to toe overlap - 3 of the 4 bikes do or did not have toe overlap. The Trek 1000, the Bridgestone RB1 and the Giant TCR do not have toe overlap. The Redline Cyclocross bike does have toe overlap (and I have small size 7 feet). The toe overlap problem has never been an issue. It reared its ugly head once when I was sitting at a stop light, not paying attention and I let the wheel fall over and then got my foot in there. No big deal, I just moved the wheel and got my foot out - I was LOL at myself sitting at the stop light - people probably thought I was crazy!

If you don't mind toe overlap, you might look at Redlines - they are steel. I'm not sure if they have places to put racks, but I bet they do or you could have them braised on probably.

[mimitabby]

Cali, did you read the article? I'm only pointing this out because 1) there can and are handling problems with some bikes due to the manufacturers trying to get rid of toe overlap and 2) the outcry against toe overlap is vastly overated.

My LBS won't recommend certain WSD bikes (I wish I could remember which) because the handling is screwed up simply in the attempt to get rid of toe overlap.

The Ruby may be fine, but one needs to think about this when choosing a bike. I'll take handling over toe overlap every time.

SadieKate,
there is toe overlap and then there is toe overlap. I have tried a fair number of bikes recently, and some are way worse than others for me. I have a fugi here and the toe overlap was very pronounced. Then today I tried out a Specialized Dolce, NO TOE OVERLAP at all!
So I agree, if there is some (like on my Bianchi), it's good to know it's there, but it is just no big deal.

[mimitabby]

Today I went to Bicycles West and tried out a Specialized Dolce. 48 cm. YOu can get these for less than 1000 dollars.
The hoods were exactly where I wanted them. It had 700 wheels, but NO TOE OVERLAP at all. I'm not sure how they did it, but that bike handled pretty well!

http://www.evanscycles.com/large_images/Z0302Z_BIG.jpg



Then, for a a whole lot more money, there's the Rivendell Bleriot 49cm with a 50 cm top tube. The one I looked at today had 650 wheels. I didn't test drive it,
now I wish I had.
This bike is guaranteed to take fenders. I think this is Lisa's bike.
http://cyclofiend.com/Images/bikes/bleriot_BK2404.jpg

[mimitabby]

I wouldn't rule out framesets. As someone mentioned, you can always move the parts from your veloce assuming they are in good shape. Now that someone is helping you define the geometry you need, maybe you could get a good deal like I did on ebay on a frame, and then just move over the parts. We've discussed fit for women endlessly, and you know where I stand on this so I won't repeat myself, but lets address the fender issue. Basically the bikes you are looking at are pure racing bikes, they won't take fenders and won't take even slightly wide tires. If you want a bike that is both light and takes fenders and wider tires (say 28-32 c) why not look at a light steel (i.e. reynolds 853 steel frame) with canti brakes. Veronica's legolos is an idea, as is what I did to my terry isis, but these were both custom designed. Smaller framebuilders tend to do this more than the big chains. Rodriguez does this, Waterford does this, Bilenky has a nice bike called the tourlite that does this (and you could get s/s couplers for travel). Yes, custom is expensive, but if you get the bike you want it will be the last bike you buy. Consider it a health expense. Given that Rodriguez is local for you I would look at them very seriously, but maybe someone locally (craigs list, etc) would have a used rodriguez they are trying to unload. I was very pleased with the custom work bilenky did for me. I think what you are looking for is what is called a sport bike or a light sport/tourer. A real touring bike will be too heavy, but a racing bike will not take real fenders. The new terry madeleine will do what you want, but it is aluminum which while light may not be as harsh or last as long as steel.

I agree I agree. The trouble with framesets is you can't test ride them. You are also right, I want to get THE bike so I don't have to keep messing around. I might have to go custom. But going custom does not necessarily mean I will then have a perfect bike. Custom bikes can be flawed too. and they cost a lot more. My DH is about to get HIS custom bike, so until we get out of the hole for paying for tht, I will not be doing much more than research. Besides, part of me wants to "look and see" what will his bike be like? will it really really fit? will he love it? his reactions to the new bike will certainly color mine.
Thanks for telling me about the Bilenky, They seem to have very long top tubes, so they do not qualify. You are right about Rodriguez and Davidson being local makers, and if i actually do go custom, it may well be with one of them. The chances of finding a bike in my size that they made on sale is kind of slim, but i will start looking.
As to me getting a touring bike, for some reason they have longer top tubes than "race" bikes. so that's why the Marinoni touring bike I was in love with is not going to work for me.
I'm still looking.
Thanks to all of you wise women who are adding to the knowledge base here!

[Bluetree]

Today I went to Bicycles West and tried out a Specialized Dolce. 48 cm. YOu can get these for less than 1000 dollars.
The hoods were exactly where I wanted them. It had 700 wheels, but NO TOE OVERLAP at all.

Mimi
I have the Dolce, too and I was surprised at how well it fit, without the toe overlap. Thing is, if you plan on going for this bike, try getting the 2006 version, NOT the 2007 version. Specialized downgraded the Shimano components this year. The 2006 Elite has all 105 components, the 2007 version has mixed 105/Tiagra. I've seen new 2006 Dolces for as low as $800 on eBay so it's a better deal.
Good luck!
:D :D :D

[mimitabby]

Mimi
I have the Dolce, too and I was surprised at how well it fit, without the toe overlap. Thing is, if you plan on going for this bike, try getting the 2006 version, NOT the 2007 version. Specialized downgraded the Shimano components this year. The 2006 Elite has all 105 components, the 2007 version has mixed 105/Tiagra. I've seen new 2006 Dolces for as low as $800 on eBay so it's a better deal.
Good luck!
:D :D :D

Blue,
the Dolce is a sweet bike, but it doesn't take fenders. I can't ride with my bike club without fenders. I am just happy to know there IS a bike that fits period in that price range. I can consider going custom, but what about most women who can't? the dolce is a sweet alternative :)

[mimitabby]

background: I wrote to Rivendell. I wanted to understand the discrepancy between the 50 cm that the salesperson at the LBS measured on the Bleriot and the 52 cm in the specs on their website. I also told him what I thought my standover height was:


I don’t know the fellow and have no reason have an opinion about him or his opinion, but beyond people and titles and nervousness...going back to basic grey rocks and cold air and solids, liquids, and gases, just wiping out everything except simple, understandable, irrefutable fundamental things we can call Facts, please consider this: (by that I mean nothing more than “see if it makes sense to you.”)

€ if you grabbed the bike at the end of the top tube, then the location of the end of the top tube would matter.
€ if you don’t do that, it doesn’t. But where you DO grab matters. And it isn’t the end of the top tube.
€ the goal, the ultimate goal, is a riding position that is comfortable. If you aren’t that, you can’t achieve any of your other goals, whatever they may be (efficiency? Speed? Bike control?). If you are comfortable, good things will follow.
€ your riding position is determined ONLY by the spatial relationship of the cranks, saddle, and handlebar.
€ your PBH determines your crank height above the pedal. For you, that’s 64cm. I’m guessing that I would measure your PBH at 74.5 or even 75, because the way I make people do it is the (for lack of a brief term) “lift hard until it hurts and let’s not mess around” way. (note from mimi, this is how they find the pubic bone)
€ How far behind the pedals your saddle is...is largely a matter of preference, but in general, just shove the saddle most or all the way back on the seat post, and use a seat post with some offset. Don’t go by the “knee over pedal center” thing that 99 percent of bike-people go by. No time to shoot holes in it now, but trust me (or not)--that approach is quite holey.
€ Use a stem that allows you to get the handlebar at least 2cm higher than the saddle. The only stems I know that’ll do this are the Nitto Technomic Deluxe and the Nitto Technomic. Anybody who sells Bleriots can get them for you.
€ you’re a woman who’s 63.5 inches tall…get a 7cm or 8cm stem. There are all kinds of body proportions in women, not all are long-legged and short-torsoed...but all the women I’ve seen except super lanky ones taller than 5-9, have short arms.
€ Women always get bad bar-width advice. The bar is a lever that helps you control the bike. Your arms are weaker than your legs, so you need a longer lever to aid you in controlling your bike. Ride 44s. The “bars as wide as your shoulders” rule is like the earth is flat... The best drop bar you can get, the most comfortable, is a Nitto Noodle. Any Bleriot dealer can get it. They’ll suggest a 41...or maybe a Terry 36. Get 44s if you want more leverage against the bike.

Other models in your size, yes, but we sell most of these direct, not through dealers. Your dealer got his Bleriot from QBP, not from us. BUT....for an all-around versatile road bike, you can’t beat it. You aren’t missing out, not knowing about our other bikes. The Bleriot is a fantastic bike---you can do anything on it, almost, and it’s so comfortable, and it handles great. If you put the right parts on it, you’ll be in heaven, Mimi. It’s just such a nice bike.

Here’s our website stuff on the Bleriot. Maybe you’ve seen it:

http://www.rivbike.com/bikes/bleriot

The main site (rivbike.com) has other stuff on it, things that might be worth looking at for a minute or two.

http://www.rivbike.com/how_to_pick_your_bike/our_approach_to_fit_sizing_and_riding_position

And

http://www.rivbike.com/how_to_pick_your_bike/our_approach_to_fit_sizing_and_riding_position

Good luck with your bike. Any other questions, just ask. Please excuse any hint of brusqueness in this reply. I’m trying to do it quickly because I’ve got family to go to, and sometimes the efficient way of writing comes off harshly. I sure don’t mean it that way! I am happy to answer any question, and I don’t MEAN to interfere with your local advisors. I just love bikes, and I l like people, and I like my job, and I do this a lot, and…out of that comes some strong opinions, maybe.
Best to you,

Grant

[caligurl]

Mimi
I have the Dolce, too and I was surprised at how well it fit, without the toe overlap. Thing is, if you plan on going for this bike, try getting the 2006 version, NOT the 2007 version. Specialized downgraded the Shimano components this year. The 2006 Elite has all 105 components, the 2007 version has mixed 105/Tiagra. I've seen new 2006 Dolces for as low as $800 on eBay so it's a better deal.
Good luck!
:D :D :D


that seems to be their MO! my 2004 (original bike) dolce elite had much better components than the 2005.... (my 2004 had a mixture with plenty of ultegra thrown in!)

they've done the same thing with the ruby's! my 2006 ruby was COMPLETE dura-ace... now for 2007 they've done a bit of hodgepoding.... throwing in a bunch of ultegra, leaving a bit of DA and downgrading the wheels from DA to roval.... (but then... the've dropped the price this year, too!)

[caligurl]

Blue,
the Dolce is a sweet bike, but it doesn't take fenders. I can't ride with my bike club without fenders. I am just happy to know there IS a bike that fits period in that price range. I can consider going custom, but what about most women who can't? the dolce is a sweet alternative :)

ok.... i'm confused... you CAN'T ride with this club without fenders? why not??????? MOST road bikes do NOT have fenders! is it not a road club?

[mimitabby]

ok.... i'm confused... you CAN'T ride with this club without fenders? why not??????? MOST road bikes do NOT have fenders! is it not a road club?

It IS a road bike club and they DO require fenders. Welcome to Seattle, my dear Cali girl. You can't do a pace line (which I don't do anyway) in the rain
without mudflaps. It can get REALLY ugly.
http://www.redmondcyclingclub.org/Photos/Roller%20Coaster%202004/slides/P1010019.JPG

[caligurl]

ahhhhhhhhhhh ok.... that explains it! (i'm not a paceline/drafter person either! 99.9% of my rides are done on my own steam! i've attempted to do the drafting thing with hubby... but i'm rarely close enough to get the benefit of the draft!) i did a ride not too long ago in palm springs where several of us rode in a "line" for a bit... but NOONE was close enough to call it a paceline or drafting! lol!)

[mimitabby]

Cali, it's a club rule. So if I ride this weekend, People will make comments about my lack of mudflaps. (I have one of those stick on fenders in the back) And hopefully we wont' get a lot of rain because it's messy.

[caligurl]

right.... i got it! :) i wasn't commenting on the club rules once you explained! i was making the paceline/drafting comments secondary to your explaination cuz of what you said: "You can't do a pace line (which I don't do anyway)"

i completely understand about clubs and the comments people can make! (i think that's part of the reason i'm glad there are no clubs in my area! lol! no "club politics!)

[mimitabby]

Oh Cali, i hate politics, and if my DH hadn't gotten so involved in this club....
well. You know how it is.

[caligurl]

lol! well.... look at it THIS way! you're probably getting a new bike out of it! THAT's a GOOD thing! http://www.smileycons.com/img/emotions/88.gif

[Triskeliongirl]

Mimi, if Bilenky's stoke frames have too long a top tube, their custom frames can be whatever you want. I was where you were a few years back. I didn't go custom not just cuz of the money (cuz often its not more money, just more time) but it was also cuz I didn't have anyone I trusted that would build me a bike that fit, so I did the 'safe' thing and stuck with terrys which have a geometry I know works for me. But folks that go custom *with the right builder* say its the best, and given that rodriguez is in your neighborhood and seems to understand womens fit issues, it may be best for you. This is especially true for those of us who want bikes that are both Light and take fenders/touring tires. This combination is really hard to find in a stock bike. I would guess the rivendell you are looking at is heavy. Maybe you should visit with Rodriguez, and see what it would really cost to get the bike you want (make sure they undertand both the light part and fenders part since these 2 features often don't go together) IF he could transfer all the parts from the veloce. It may not cost as much as you think since the components are a huge part of the price, and then you would get your money back out of the veloce (and you could even sell the stripped frame). ANother thing to be careful of, I know you don't want to be technical, but you need to pay attention not only to top tube length but to seat tube angle. Remember for every degree increase in STA you need to add a cm to the top tube to get the same reach. For example, a bike with a 73 degree seat tube angle and 52 cm top tube, has the same reach as a bike with a 76 degree seat tube angle and a 49 cm top tube because on the second bike you will need to move your saddle 3 cm further back to get your knee in the same position relative to the pedal axis. This point is really imporant and I am not sure you fully get it. Another factoid is that as top tube lengths get shorter than 52-53 cm it gets harder to get a 700c wheel in front and avoid toe clip overlap without making compromises to the frame geometry that effect handling (i.e. you either slacken the head tube angle or increase the fork rake, in an attempt to push the front wheel further forward, but then the bike becomes so stable it is hard to turn). What I did was to test ride different bikes that used different solutions to this problem, and after my test rides could tell how a bike was going to feel purely by looking at its specs.

[KnottedYet]

I think Lisa S.H. said her Riv weighed the same as my Waterford: 21 1/2 pounds.

My lugged steel Waterford weighs less than my aluminum Kona hybrid commutermobile, but I weigh more than both of them put together!

(my *bikes* don't need to lose weight... hee hee!:D )

[Triskeliongirl]

I thought Lisa posted that her ramboulleit weighed 27 lbs hence my concern. As you know I am a fan of light steel, but by light I mean bikes in the under 22 lb range. I although think bikes with a sloping top tube are better aesthetically for those of us that prefer our bars high, although my bikes have straight ones.

[Triskeliongirl]

Then, for a a whole lot more money, there's the Rivendell Bleriot 49cm with a 50 cm top tube. The one I looked at today had 650 wheels. I didn't test drive it,
now I wish I had.
This bike is guaranteed to take fenders. I think this is Lisa's bike.
http://cyclofiend.com/Images/bikes/bleriot_BK2404.jpg

Here is a good price on that frame, if you test drive it and like it you may want to buy the frameset here, and transfer the parts from your veloce. I normally don't do this, try a bike in a shop and buy online, but if you can't afford the complete bike and/or don't like the build (shimano right?) I don't think its an awful thing to do. You can also get a feel for how heavy it is by looking at the one in your LBS. Only parts that won't transfer are the brakes, you'll need to purchase cantis, and you'll need a 650c wheelset (which you can buy on ebay), and a nitto technomic stem. I can help you with that if you need since I did that conversion a couple of times and know good places to get the brakes and stem ($39 each brake, and stem, $35). Usually if you bring the frame and parts to a bike shop they'll charge you ~$100 for assembly, maybe a bit more if they also have to strip down the veloce.

http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/CELLFRMRD/FM2400

[Triskeliongirl]

You got me interested in this bike, and I found a pdf with many details on it here. http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/index.html
Note that while the top tube appears longish the seat tube angle is so slack it has a shorter reach than many bikes you are looking at. If I was in the market for a true touring bike I would grab it in a second, since my problem is finding bikes with a slack enough seat tube angle. However, when I read the brochure I noticed it takes 650B tires. This is not the 650C that is on many womens racing bikes. What is wrong with this is that the narrowest tire you can get in this size they say is 30mm. I think that may be too wide for the fast club riding you like. ANother reason to go custom, the framebuilder makes the bike do what you want. Light steel, you got it. Fenders, you got it. Tire range from racing to touring, you got it. As I said before, finding a bike that is both light enough to keep up with a group and takes real fenders is just not htat easy, but it seems to me necessary where you live.

p.s. I just read a bit more in the brochure. Actually, you can buy it direct from rivendell for less than the price I posted above. If you don't care about the wheels, I suggest talking with grant about what parts will and won't transfer from the veloce and have him install what you need. He says he'll sell the frameset with headset installed for 775 direct. It takes long reach side pull brakes not cantis, but that is ok too since they also should have fender clearance.

[KnottedYet]

I thought Lisa posted that her ramboulleit weighed 27 lbs hence my concern.

Hmm, maybe it was the Legolas? Someone has a Riv that weighs the same as my Waterford... it's gonna bug me now until I find it....

I was looking at a Bleriot at Robinson Wheel Works in San Leandro CA, and thought it was a pretty spiffy frame. Mimi, you really might wanna check this one out!

[Triskeliongirl]

Hmm, maybe it was the Legolas? Someone has a Riv that weighs the same as my Waterford... it's gonna bug me now until I find it....


I was looking at a Bleriot at Robinson Wheel Works in San Leandro CA, and thought it was a pretty spiffy frame. Mimi, you really might wanna check this one out!

You are thinking of Veronica's Legolos. I agree the Bleriot is a very spiffy frame in a very women friendly geometry (I just love the slack seat tube angles) but it would bug me to not be able to use tires narrower than 30mm. That is very wide for the minimum size.

[KnottedYet]

I guess I'm missing something here. Why the minimum tire size? Is that determined by the rims you put on the frame or by the frame itself?

[Triskeliongirl]

I guess I'm missing something here. Why the minimum tire size? Is that determined by the rims you put on the frame or by the frame itself?

If you go to the link above, there is a 15 page pdf file you can download about the bike. For some reason Grant designed it to use a very non-standard wheel size, 650B. He says that tires for 650B rims only start at 30mm and then go considerably wider. I think he chose them over 650C since while 650C tires are available in racing widths, the widest they go is 28mm. THat's the catch.

HEre is the relevant section of the pdf:

What’s the Bleriot frame/bike?
It’s a multi-purpose bike built for 650B wheels. The rest of this brochure
goes into more detail.
What’s a 650B wheel?
It’s bigger in diameter than a mountain bike 26-inch wheel, and smaller than
a typical road 700c wheel. Rims are sized by something called “bead seat diameter” (bsd)—the diameter at the point where the tire bead nestles to the rim. Every tire made has its bsd molded into it, because bsd is the universal language of rim & tire compatibility. Here’s a chart.

rim size bsd
700c 622mm
650B 584mm
26-inch (mtn) 559mm

Why 650B?
A 650B wheel is smaller than a 700c wheel, so it allows more tire and fender
clearance, which is especially helpful on small-to-medium sizes.

650B history:
Bikes with 650B wheels go back 60 years, and still have a strong following in
France, with a growing, fan base here in the United States. It’s a smart size that one could argue should have been the mountain bike size, but in the frenzy to get a bike out there, it was easier to use the current mountain bike size (559mm bsd 26-inch), and once that caught on there was no going back.

Tires:The 650B tire that people think of when they think of 650B tires if
they think of 650B tires at all, is one that’s about 36 to 38mm wide and runs
on 30 to 50 psi. You can get 650B tires as narrow as 30mm and as wide as
41.5mm. Start off with a 33 to 38mm tire, and see how you like those (you will like those).


p.s. The 650C tire found on many wsd racing bikes have a bsd of 571 and are not interchangeable w 650B. I do not believe this frame will support a 650C rim but I am not sure of that. One reason I went with the terry bikes with the 700c/24" combo is that 24" (520 bsd) high pressure tires are available in sizes ranging from 23c racing to 32c touring, the range I was interested in using.

[salsabike]

here's another one, a steel bike made by Bianchi.. Bianchi Eros Donna
what an awesome name. but what kind of fenders would fit it? (it's about $1600.00)

I put clip-on fenders on mine, but don't know how they'd work in a close group. They keep me reasonably dry, myself.

Ask the LBS guys.

You can get a good basic Rodriguez for about that price, also--with the smaller wheels. I test rode one and really liked it.

[mimitabby]

Hi guys, i'm in seaside. we're delaying our ride start until 11am because the ground is frozen and no one wants a slip and slide fall.

we are talking about rodriguez here too. I think that is pretty interesting, the coincidence.
I think Lisa's bike is a ramboullet, but it's the color of the bleriott i'm not sure.

I might take my components and put them on a new bike, we've talked about that too.

I don't like the idea of those big fat tires either, Trisk.

And Grant wrote to me again, still snotty. he told me that the Legolas would
not suit my needs. You know, I don't want to deal with someone like that!

[roguedog]

Hey Mimi,

I'm going to quietly pipe in for a Giant OCR bike. Reasonably priced bike. It's not fancy. It's not high end. It's not steel.

But I think it's in the price range you're looking for and it can take fenders if I'm looking at the pictures correctly.

I love my Giant bike. I too have been in your shoes, shopping for bikes for the uh.. height challenged. I had to go to bike stores all over Northern California just so I could find shops with bikes in my size to test.

In the end, I just kinda found my bike. It felt great, was used and I think I got it it at a fair, if not good price. I got the racing style and I'm kinda looking for a used steel "everyday" bike so I can put on fenders and racks for commuting and just putzing about town. I also looking for that "steal" of a steel deal :). It's hard tho to find something in my size new much less used and "vintage"!

Best of luck.

[mimitabby]

Roguedog,
thanks, I'll look at the Giant OCR too. I started this thread, not just for me.
I think it's helpful for folks to look at the brands and the pictures of the bikes to get some recognition of who is making bikes that cater to women who are
not the size of an average man!

[Eden]

by all means look at the OCR as I may be wrong - but it probably will not work for you. As I recall from my search for shortie bikes, Giants are very long for their size - they have some of the longest top tubes for their frame size around even on their wsd models. I'm not at all saying that they aren't nice bikes, but they are not particularly friendly to us with short arms/torsos.

p.s. if you all want a new custom bike builder to drool over try www.hampsten.com - Andy Hampsten is actually a local now and he's got a bike in town. Every bike is basically custom to your measurements, but they are pretty pricey.

[Triskeliongirl]

I agree Eden. The Strada Bianca seems to be exacty what Mimi is looking for:
http://www.hampsten.com/Bikes/GravelRoad/stradabianca.html

Light, fast, fender friendly. You guys in Seattle are lucky to have so many great custom builders!

[mimitabby]

oh yeah! I will definitely visit that shop! thanks girls. I have been meaning to visit them but now i have another reason. He's friends wiht the son of the man who wrote the book about Alfonsina.

thank you.

[roguedog]

Eden.. ya... I've been drolling over their Tournesol line. Just beautiful.. uh..

Hmm.. interesting observation re: the Giant bikes. I guess my torso is about the same length as my body and I dunno if my arms are of the longer or shorter variety for my height.

Still love my bike. Fits me and my checkbook :) But uh.. I love it too much to just run errands on it and maybe let it be mauled or stolen. So that's why I wanna "run around town" or in college we called it a "beater bike."

[eofelis]

I'm 5'2" and I ride a 42cm Surly Pacer. It's a steel sport touring type bike with a steel fork. It's not light and fast, but it's comfortable and rugged enough for an all day ride. For a $400 frame, it's pretty nice. I've been riding it for about 4 years and I like it a lot.

Standover is 70cm, effective top tube is 50cm. I do have toe overlap, but it has not been a problem. It takes 700c wheels.

The 42cm Surly Long Haul Trucker touring frame takes 26in wheels but has the 70cm standover and 50cm effTT as well.

I'd love to have a Gunnar Sport, but I don't want to go to 650c wheels. Someday I may see if Gunnar can make me a Sport with the same exact geometry as the Pacer.

[logdiva32]

What are the possible problems with riding a bike too large?
At 48-52cm seems like I am riding larger than others my height on this post.

I bought a fuji at LBS they measured me to fit a 43cm, I am 5'4. After only 20 miles or so, I took it back. I was totally uncomfortable, regardless of where I put the seat. In frustration went back to old fathful 17.5" trek950 MTB w' slicks, no prob. Love it but sometimes, top out pedaling speeds.

I now purchased a used 48" cm trek road bike (WSD), a used cannondale R300 50cm, and a 52cm novara flat bar road bike, store return. Plan to ride them all to achieve a fit then sell those that don't fit. Already finding I don't have the heart to sell any of them though. On the trainer the 50cm feels best???

Important note: I do not have big money for a bike, my HB is pissed over the 3, I bought for less than $800 total, the cost of the original fuji, i returned.

Anything I absolutley have to know?

[Eden]

Fit is so personal its hard to say - but my experience riding a bike that was too big and my personal fit demons too long top tubes along with too long crank arms
the consequences for me:
lack of power - hampered my ability to go very fast, when I got a new smaller bike I gained about 2mph instantly

difficulty climbing and inability to climb seated - I used to use a triple set up geared much like a mt. bike and I still had some knee pain, now I can climb anything you throw at me with my standard double no knee problems

neck and shoulder pain - this was my original reason for getting a smaller bike, I'd injured my shoulder and the bike was aggravating it, so I had a fit and found out that the bike was really way too long for me. I still have to be careful to move my head around on the bike so that I don't get stiff or sore, but I am much more comfortable now.

[emily_in_nc]

Inability to stand over the top tube would be a biggie if a bike were too large for me (ouch!) You definitely shouldn't have to slant the bike to stand over the top tube with both feet on the ground.

But assuming you can do that, if you can't ride on the hoods comfortably (on a drop-bar bike), if your elbows are locked to reach them, you're going to end up with neck, shoulder, and/or back pain. Make sure to test your reach to the bars after getting your saddle fore/aft placement set up. No fair pulling your saddle way forward on the rails to reach the bars, since then you rob yourself of climbing power on the bike and will likely hurt your knees too. Most fitters think that your knee should be immediately above or slightly behind the pedal spindle when your foot is in the front pedal position (3 o'clock). For most women, that results in a saddle that is pushed fairly far back on the rails, since we tend to have longer femurs. And since we also have shorter arms than men, pushing the saddle back lengthens the reach to the bars and may make it apparent that the top tube is too long.

Other issues with a too-large bike: like Eden mentions, if the cranks are too long, you could end up with knee or hip pain. Too-wide handlebars can lead to shoulder/neck pain. But the top tube length is the most important measurement where being too long can make for a miserable ride and after-ride experience.

Some people are much more flexible than others in the back and hips, so you might be able to ride a "longer" bike for your height than most of us could. The important thing to pay attention to is whether you have pain and whether you can control the bike. If the top tube is just a little on the long side, a shorter stem can help with reach issues, but on some bikes, you'll sacrifice some handling that way (the front end will become squirrely). If you're needing to ride a stem shorter than about 7-8 cm, the top tube is likely too long for you.

Oh, and if they measured you at a 43 cm bike and you're 5'4", I agree that that sounds too small. I have ridden a 44.5 cm and currently ride a 46 cm road bike (and a 15.5" mountain bike) and I am only 5'2.5". Just like you say, I think at your height you'd be a 48cm to 50cm (possibly 52cm if the bike has a short enough top tube) kind of gal on a road bike, but it all depends on how the frame is measured and how long the top tube is.

Good luck!
Emily

[GLC1968]

Oh, and if they measured you at a 43 cm bike and you're 5'4", I agree that that sounds too small. I have ridden a 44.5 cm and currently ride a 46 cm road bike (and a 15.5" mountain bike) and I am only 5'2.5". Just like you say, I think at your height you'd be a 48cm to 50cm (possibly 52cm if the bike has a short enough top tube) kind of gal on a road bike, but it all depends on how the frame is measured and how long the top tube is.


It totally depends on the frame and on your body dimensions!

I'm also 5'4" and my LBS measured me onto a 43cm Specialized women's specific design. I have a long torso, but very short legs and arms. I could ride (and stand over) a bigger bike because of the compact frame geometry (sloping top tube) but the effective top tube lengths would have been too long for my short reach. They put me on a 43 for reach (not standover). What's funny, is that my new bike is a Terry which is also obviously women's specific. On a Terry, I ride a 19" which is more equivalent to a 48cm bike, but the Terry geometry works better for me.

When it comes to bike fit, height is the first measurement, but it is definitely not the most important!

[mimitabby]

more pain from handlebars too wide:
fingers.
when your arms are spread too far out, your hands are now not at the
angle the levers were set up for.
The typical handlebar that is on hybrids and MTB's is really really wide. When I first got my raleigh hybrid, shifting was a painful ordeal until they shortened my handlebars.

[logdiva32]

thanks for all the help. We'll have to wait and see, weather sucks in wa right now.
I have a 32" (by my own measuring) stand over height. I standover the 52cm fine with maybe .5" to spare.

According to the guidance of my LBS I can drop the seat to "properly", fit my leg length with a slight bend, at full extension. So I hope this will help me avoid the knee pain you all speak of.

I really like the 52cm novara xpress, flat bar, It has good grade components, and for the price I had to take what they had. I hope it works for me. I will see this spring. Not an all weather sports girl.