Introducing Feronia

[Triskeliongirl]

Some of you have been following the story of my new travel bike on the maintenance forum, but now that she is done I thought I'd post it here for the rest of you. It all started when my beloved bike friday pocket rocket pro was stolen while locked to a bike rack at work in the middle of 2005. I quickly replaced her with a 2005 Terry Titanium Isis which I love, but taking her on trips was getting *very expensive* with oversize luggage charges. Shortly after I fixed up my old 2001 Steel Terry Classic for commuting, but realized that the new parts I bought for her were much better than her aging frame. Then one day I'm on ebay and a 2003 Steel Terry Isis frame pops up, never been built, for only $100! What's the catch??? This sold as a complete ultegra bike for $2000. The catch is that commerical forks were no longer available for her. I bought her anyway, with the idea to make her into a travel bike. I arranged with a frame builder in Pennsylvania recommended by Georgena (Steve Bilenky, he'd made forks for them before) to build a custom fork, and install S & S couplers. I wanted the bike to be versatile, good for flying into a city and going out hard and fast, or to be able to do light touring, so I also had him install canti bosses and rack mounts for max verstatility. The cantis let her accept tires from 23c-32c to cove the range of fast riding to touring. I can use a carradice bag for light touring, and up to 2 racks for heavier touring. I then switched all the nearly new parts from my classic over (ultegra/XT mix) and voila.... I have a travel bike again that fits in an airline legal suitcase and flys for free! I was gonna do the build myself, but was a little nervous about getting the bottom bracket and cable disconnects right, and was busy at work, so I brought them to my LBS and they had her put together in less than 24 hours flawlessly. So gals on the maintenance forum, don't be mad at me, but I am just soooo haaapy to have her finished. She rides like a dream. The Reynolds 853 steel is nice and stiff yet still relatively light (for comparison she weighs 1.5 lb more than my titanium Isis and 3 lb more than DHs carbon trek, some of that is the couplers and some of that is the steel).

[Blueberry]

Congratulations - she's beautiful!

I'd be curious to hear how the packing process goes once you have a chance to take her apart and reassemble her a few times - I've heard differing things from the Rivendell list.

PS - Thread Hijack - The Fridays are actually going well, and it looks like we're going to be able to keep them/make them work after all - I'm waiting on a new seatpost, but the longer crank fixed 9/10 of the problem.

[DebW]

What a great bike. Smart design. Love the versatility.

[Triskeliongirl]

I can tell you that my understanding of the packing process is that it is is *much easier* for small frames vs large frames. One issue is how much needs to be removed. On a small frame all you need to do is unscrew the disconnectors (very easy), unscrew the cables, take off the bars (and if you didn't get a pop top stem like me (I wanted a certain aesthetic) you may need to remove the stem and disconnet the brake, but with my small fork I may just by loosening bolts be able to arrange it in the case in without disconnecting as much. Of course you also take off your wheels, pedals, and seatpost. On larger frames you sometimes need to take the fork out, and/or crank. I also think how *easy* it is depends on how mechanical you are. I have aquired good mechanical skills over the years, in part from owning my friday. I think after any bike is packed it requires adjustments, so being comfortable making brake and derailleur adjustments is a good idea for any travel biking, as is being able to make on the road repairs in foreign lands. One thing that is nice is the suitcase is larger than the friday one, so in some ways with my small frame packing looks easier to me than on my friday. My bike came with every inch of the frame wrapped in these nice soft velcro closed rolls, which would not be a bad idea for a friday either since it really protects it. If you go to the S/S site there are good links on the packing process: http://www.sandsmachine.com/index.html#pack. My framebuilder also said that women that go with 650c or 26" wheels have an easier time packing. I can see that now, as to pack my 700c wheel I need to deflate it completely and wedge it in there, although my 24" wheels just drops in anywhere (cases are 26" x 26" xx 10" to meet airline reg). So if I were doing this from scratch I might choose a bike with 650/26" wheels. I also recommend if you have a favorite frame you are considering to modify, to do it when it needs painting, since they have to remove paint to install the couplers. In my case since the frame is new I got the touch up paint job (they kept hte original blue paint and expanded the original silver fade to deal with the paint they had to remove). I will report back after taking her on some trips how I do, but I can tell for my level of packing experience and mechanical know how that it'll be a breeze. I am glad your BFs are going to work out for you. I will say the foldablity is an advantage (which I think is important for you as I recall you wanted to stow them on a boat unless I am mixing you up with someone else). I have also learned that if you are persistent and talk to the right people at bike friday you are well taken care of. You mentioned you were working with Walter, and I know Walter is very good. Lynette is also very good. I mentioned in your BF thread that a friend of mine had his air glide frame fail three times. The first two times they replaced the frame but he lost his confidence in touring with it, so this time, after a bit of prodding and Lynette's help, they made him a very generous cash settlement. I think in his case the beamed bike wasn't a good match for his height/weight/riding style. So, while sometimes it may take them a while to 'get it right' they are good people and do treat their customers fairly. FYI, if you are still searching for a laid back enough seatpost, Wallingford just got his new lot of kalloy uno 374 posts in. They are more laid back than the uno posts other distributers have. If that doesn't work, pm me as I have a used selcolf bi-position post which is very laid back I could sell you. IT worked fine with my butterfly saddle, but not with my brooks.

[Triskeliongirl]

What a great bike. Smart design. Love the versatility.

Thanks Deb. You helped me design it!!! I am so glad now that I went with the steel fork and canti brakes, the two points I agonized over. I need to ride her more to be sure, but one interesting thing I noticed is how much stiffer the bottom bracket area feels than any other bike I have owned. Could that be the reynolds 853 steel? WHile BFs are great for easy folding, I think you loose stiffness in the hinge design. When I rode her yesterday, in some ways she felt more powerful and comfortable than even my ti isis with carbon fork (by comfort I mean mostly in my upper body, back neck shoulders feel more relaxed). I felt like every watt of energy applied to the pedals was translated into power. My body even felt more comfortable on her even though the fit is identical (she is one frame size larger, so to get an iidentical position I have a 1 cm shorter stem (10 vs 11), and my seatpost and stem are 1.5" less exposed). Do you think that is due to the difference in frame size or frame materials? The other bike is titanium with a carbon fork. All other angles, rake, etc. are identical. It may also be that she was put together with nearly new parts. I really liked the mechanic. This is a new shop (for me) and not only did he take all the parts off my old bike, he put them in this special cleaning machine, and he also rebuilt the hubs on my touring wheels, so perhaps some of what I am feeling is the smoothness of a fresh build. I haven't tried her out yet on hills, where I may appreciate more my lighter ti bike. I'll do that tomorrow.

[Bad JuJu]

What an elegant solution to your cycling needs, and one gorgeous bike too.

I had a Terry Symmetry for about 13 years and the one thing (and I do mean the only thing) that bugged me about that bike was that the fork wouldn't allow for wider tires for touring, so it was probably actually an advantage that you were able to have your fork custom made. But I loved that steel Terry otherwise, and the only reason I no longer have her is that Hurricane Ivan washed her away in 2004.

Enjoy your new steel ride--What a find!

[Triskeliongirl]

I had a Terry Symmetry for about 13 years and the one thing (and I do mean the only thing) that bugged me about that bike was that the fork wouldn't allow for wider tires for touring, so it was probably actually an advantage that you were able to have your fork custom made.

Its interesting that you say that, cuz that also bothered me on my titanium Isis. Like last time I took her to CA I wanted to ride her to Solvang, but had to go a bit off road and really wanted 32c tires. When I first bought my classic in 2001, even though it was a touring bike, the widest 24" tire you get was only 28c but now the terry tullus which is a very nice touring tire comes in 32c. I also noticed that on the Isis bikes when I compared the new bare frame to my built one, is that what keeps me from using a 32c tire is not the frame per say, but the brake style. A 32c wheel hits the top of the side pull brake not the frame, so I got the idea to use cantis. She is really a bit of a cross between the classic and isis now. The classic has cantis, and even more clearance for wide tires and fenders, but then she was made from heavier steel. The cantis also make rack attachment on the small frames easier. But, since Feronia was designed for side pull brakes and rear stays are a bit narrow so I have to deflate a 32 c rear tire to clear the brakes, but that is a minor inconveneience given what a good deal I got on the frame. What I don't get is why more manufacturers don't offer stock bikes for how we really ride, i.e. the versatility of using 23-32 tires, fenders, etc., but also considering lightness and a need for speed. I noticed Veronica's new legolos has a lot of the same features as my bike, but why do we need to go to framebuilders to get what we want? It seems like they tap two markets, the super fast racers, or the heavily loaded tourist, but what about us in between gals? Its also interesting to me that both the classic/madeleine and isis/symetry families, while marketed for touring vs sport riding, both have very similar geometries classifying them both as very adaptable sport tourers.

[DebW]

I can tell you that my understanding of the packing process is that it is is *much easier* for small frames vs large frames. One issue is how much needs to be removed. ... On larger frames you sometimes need to take the fork out, and/or crank.

Do you wedge foam or something in the case to keep parts from shifting? I assume you'd want a spreader bar in the fork tips and dropouts for protection. And some protection for the rear derailleur if you leave it attached to the frame.



My framebuilder also said that women that go with 650c or 26" wheels have an easier time packing. I can see that now, as to pack my 700c wheel I need to deflate it completely and wedge it in there, although my 24" wheels just drops in anywhere (cases are 26" x 26" xx 10" to meet airline reg). So if I were doing this from scratch I might choose a bike with 650/26" wheels.

I'd be alot more comfortable transporting a wheel with air in the tire. As long as the pressure is 15 psi below the max tire rating - won't want explosions on a plane.


Thanks Deb. You helped me design it!!! I am so glad now that I went with the steel fork and canti brakes, the two points I agonized over. I need to ride her more to be sure, but one interesting thing I noticed is how much stiffer the bottom bracket area feels than any other bike I have owned. Could that be the reynolds 853 steel? ... When I rode her yesterday, in some ways she felt more powerful and comfortable than even my ti isis with carbon fork (by comfort I mean mostly in my upper body, back neck shoulders feel more relaxed). I felt like every watt of energy applied to the pedals was translated into power. My body even felt more comfortable on her even though the fit is identical (she is one frame size larger, so to get an iidentical position I have a 1 cm shorter stem (10 vs 11), and my seatpost and stem are 1.5" less exposed). Do you think that is due to the difference in frame size or frame materials? The other bike is titanium with a carbon fork. All other angles, rake, etc. are identical. It may also be that she was put together with nearly new parts. I really liked the mechanic. This is a new shop (for me) and not only did he take all the parts off my old bike, he put them in this special cleaning machine, and he also rebuilt the hubs on my touring wheels, so perhaps some of what I am feeling is the smoothness of a fresh build.

I really can't answer that. In theory a smaller frame should be stiffer, and you have a bigger frame. Tubing can make a difference, and a frame can be built with a stiffened bb and a softer ride elsewhere. And apparently some newer cranksets are noticably stiffer, especially when they put the bearings outisde the bb and use the integrated crank/spindle designs. I don't think a "fresh build" should create a noticable difference in feel unless you were riding on really really grote hubs before.


What I don't get is why more manufacturers don't offer stock bikes for how we really ride, i.e. the versatility of using 23-32 tires, fenders, etc., but also considering lightness and a need for speed. I noticed Veronica's new legolos has a lot of the same features as my bike, but why do we need to go to framebuilders to get what we want? It seems like they tap two markets, the super fast racers, or the heavily loaded tourist, but what about us in between gals?

Now that's a good question.

[Triskeliongirl]

Do you wedge foam or something in the case to keep parts from shifting? I assume you'd want a spreader bar in the fork tips and dropouts for protection. And some protection for the rear derailleur if you leave it attached to the frame. I'd be alot more comfortable transporting a wheel with air in the tire. As long as the pressure is 15 psi below the max tire rating - won't want explosions on a plane.

Each tube is wrapped with these wrappers, which are like cordura filled with soft padding, and sealed with velcro strips, as are all the exposed joints on the frame. You don't really use foam, but once you start to place everything in there, things pressing against each other hold things in place. Interestingly, he didn't pack the fork tips or dropouts with spreader bars, although I have some from my trico ironcase that I could use. He seemed more concerned with protecting the frame itself from getting scratched. You also put several crush protectors in the case. Did you mean to say you'd be more comfortable transporting a deflated tire. I agree I would deflate it partially, but what I meant about smaller wheels being easier is that you don't have to completely deflate them, and then they would lie flat rather than at an angle in the case. I'll let you guys know more how the packing goes after I take some trips. I think I was just so used to my tiny bike friday case that this one seems enormous by comparison, yet my frame is still relatively small.

I rode her again today, and I think some of the differences I was perceiving between my ti (Isis) vs steel (Feronia) bikes had more to do with the saddles and seatpost positions as I've been shifting things around. Yesterday I rode Feronia first with my more broken in brooks saddle, and then immediatly after rode Isis with the newer saddle, and think I put the seatpost a tad higher than normal, so she didn't feel that good. I think when they are similarly equipped they feel pretty similar in terms of body comfort, although I still think that Feronia is stiffer than Isis. I plan to take Feronia on two club rides this weekend to see how she feels doing the kinds of things I'd do when I travel and am not touring, tomorrow will be a hilly ride so I put my 11-34 cogset on, and sunday will be flat although I'll keep this cogset on as more 'general purpose' as a test as well. Normally I use a 12-27 for most things, and the 11-34 for steep stuff, but sometimes I am caught undergeared witht he 12-27 so it will also be fun to see how I like her with the 11-34 all the time. I worry about the large gaps between gears. In some ways I wish I had a triple, but it was easier to make my custom orthopoedic crank set in a double.

[Veronica]

Our tandem has S & S couplers. This what half the bike looks like when packed.

http://www.tandemhearts.com/hawaii/images/packing-the-bike.jpg

Our new tandem will have 26" wheels to make it easier to pack.

V.

[Triskeliongirl]

What an elegant solution to your cycling needs, and one gorgeous bike too. ...


THANKS! I was just logging my ride on bike journal and a pic of your bike popped up. I noticed you have a waterford adventure bike and bianchi veloce. BEAUTIFUL BIKES! I am a bit surpristed about the veloce, since compared to the terry geometry the seat tube angle is very steep and top tube quite long, at least in the small frame sizes. What frame size are you? I am also curious about your waterford. Roughly what does it weigh? Did you have it custom made or did you buy it used? Does it have S/S couplers? I have a friend having one made now with S/S couplers and he's curious how heavy it'll be, although I guess that depends a lot on who its built for.

[Triskeliongirl]

Our tandem has S & S couplers. This what half the bike looks like when packed. ...V.

It looks like you got the soft case. Have you had problems with damage on airplanes? I got the hard case cuz it seemed to offer more protection. Deb had asked about padding. As I was putting the case away today I realized that he did pad it with newspaper since it only had the frame and wheels, not as full as when she is fully built up. I took her on my first long ride today. She rode like a dream!! I was amazed, cuz at the beginning of the ride I could tell folks thought I was crazy to bring a steel bike out for a hilly club ride. But, I wanted to know what she would be like in that situation traveling. I did put the 11/34 cogset on, and she climbed like a dream. I don't have computer for her yet, but I was faster than a group of women that I usually have to struggle to stay with or pass me, and I even passed a guy walking his carbon trek up the first steep climb. I really knew I was doing well when a little before the halfway point it started to drizzle. I was worried it would get worse and my new brooks saddle would be ruined (I forgot her raincoat) so I decided to do an out and back instead of the planned loop. Well, that was the surprise cuz as I went back I could see all the folks still behind me (again, on their carbon fiber racing bikes!). I was not really trying to stay in a group, but kind of trying to get used to the bike and see what she could do. The ride was smooth as butter, and I actually think she felt more stable descending than my titanium isis with carbon fork. After the ride folks were really amazed how well we did, and that I was comfortable and fast without a carbon fork, etc.

[DebW]

The ride was smooth as butter, and I actually think she felt more stable descending than my titanium isis with carbon fork. After the ride folks were really amazed how well we did, and that I was comfortable and fast without a carbon fork, etc.

WOO HOO!

My comment about deflating the tires in the case was that they'd be less likely to get damaged rims in transport if there was air in the tires.

[Veronica]

It looks like you got the soft case. Have you had problems with damage on airplanes?

No, but we've only flown once with it to Hawaii.


After the ride folks were really amazed how well we did, and that I was comfortable and fast without a carbon fork, etc.

This stuff always cracks me up. Sounds like a guy I talked to going up Diablo one day. He said he had a Rambouillet like mine, but it was too heavy to take up the mountain. And I'm kind of thinking, "Wuss." Of course I continued to talk politely with him and he did eventually drop me. Now riding up Diablo on a tandem? That's hard work.

V.

[KayTee]

This is really helpful info - thanks, ladies. I have a new this year, S&S coupled steel bike that hasn't seen any flying adventures...yet. But I can take off the front wheel, uncouple the frame into 2 halves, and fit that and my bike bag in the trunk of my car now w/o having to put the back seat down, yay! My bike, too, is mostly 853 Reynolds steel. Don't know if it's the couplers or the geo or both, but it feels and rides really stiffly - nice!

[Triskeliongirl]

My bike, too, is mostly 853 Reynolds steel. Don't know if it's the couplers or the geo or both, but it feels and rides really stiffly - nice!

I am starting to think its the reynolds 853 steel. I took Feronia out on another club ride today, and she really flew. Todays ride was flatter, so of course less influenced by bike weight. Again, I took off ahead of the gals I usually ride with, passed a couple guys who usually ride ahead of me and both commented that they couldn't believe how fast my new bike was, again given she is 100% steel (one on his new cannondale carbon synapse). Then I started drafting off a couple thin thirtysomething guys (european on carbon bikes), but then I got cocky, I was resting so nicely in their draft instead of just taking a pull like I should of I shot off the front, thinking they were holding me back, but then I tuckered myself out and they passed me, but again I caught some faster guys and, get this, got to the rest stop before the fastest group of men had even left yet. This never ever happens to me. One of my friends who always rides with the fastest men had just bought a new tandem to ride with his son, and his son was tired and didn't feel like keeping pace with the fast men, so we decided to ride back in together. I am used to always wheel sucking, but we start off and they are drafting off me! Then his son kept trying to talk to me so when the wind died down we just rode side by side and chatted. Then when the wind kicked up again I drafted off them which was really nice. I made a personal best time on this ride finished with the moderate paced men (not the fastest men, but the ones who look like they should be fast but for some reason don't try to be). But, how can this be, that my steel bike which weighs 1.5 lb more than my titanium bike is faster? The geometry is the same, size is slightly different. I really think the stiffness of the reynolds 853 steel is part of it. It may also be that I was in 'time trial mode' going out there wanting to see what this bike could do. It also may be the different gearing. I had the 11/34 vs the 12/27 on. This worked great on this flatter ride, cuz I just stayed in the big ring the entire time, rather than having to down shift when it did get a little hilly. The other weird thing is that my body felt more comfortable (even though part of the road was worse than chipseal) than on my ti bike with carbon fork. I did measure everything after and realized my bars are just a tiny bit higher on the new bike, but could just a 1 cm longer top tube and 1 cm shorter stem actually make me better balanced on the bike? I'll play with making my old bike match the new one now in terms of bar height and gearing and see. But what a surprise to find out what a joy reynolds 853 steel is to ride.

[KayTee]

You go, T-girl! Ain't it nice when we can fly by the shaved-leg boys on a steel bike? I have both a ti bike and an alu/cf bike, and I swear the 853 steel one climbs and accelerates better. It just feels so tight. Of course the wheels and set-up make a difference, as does the gearing as you suggest.