Church?

[Eden]

We had a team activity today (we do an Adopt-a-Road) and one person opted out of the after clean up ride as she had to get ready to go to church. That got me thinking. I hardly ever hear anyone talk about not riding to go to church. It seems like the cycling crowd, and the racing crowd especially, is fairly low key about church going or maybe its that Seattle is (the area has very low church service attendance compared to other parts of the country), or even perhaps its just that I ride on Sundays and the people I see aren't regular church attendants?

I'm curious are we a less church going bunch or is my view biased? I grew up in a non religious family so I don't really think about it too much, but for someone who is devout the racing season could be a strain - lots of Sunday races, lots of travel and early mornings. My husband has a team mate who is very devout, even teaches Sunday School and still makes it all work, but it must be hard. Does anyone find that it is a conflict for them? Do we attend less church because we cycle, do we cycle because we attend less church or do we attend church as much as the non cycling community? I guess I'm just curious as its never been an issue I've had to confront, but I'll bet it affects a lot of people.

[rocknrollgirl]

It does not impact the DH and I , but one of our regular partners is very devout, and it effects his ability to ride and race with our group quite often. He obvioulsy does not mind. I miss him when we ride on Sundays. We try to switch off so that we can include him.

I consider myself to be more spiritual than religious. One of my friends that is a Brit says I am fey, like his grandma. I think in a very former life, I was probably some sort of a woodland sprit...

HA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ruth

[Meaux]

I went a lot when I was growing up and was very involved in the church, but when I started working I didn't go as much. I've recently become involved again at my father-in-law's church. I don't go so much for the Jesus Factor (I, too, consider myself more spiritual than religious), but it's nice to be involved with a really great group of people. Our MS150 team is actually sponsored by the church.

[Trek420]

Playing in my head on a Sunday (Saturday for me) ride

They've read the scripture, they've passed the plate
And we're both prayin' he don't preach late
But he's gettin' "Amens," and that's just our luck
Yeah, it's sixty-five degrees outside and he's just gettin' warmed up

Oh you and me, we could be soakin' up that sun
Findin' out just how fast SK's bike'll run
I tell you there ain't nothin' that'll test your faith
Like a long sermon on a pretty Sunday

Well it's been rainin' all week long
I woke up this mornin', the dark clouds were gone
We've both been raised not to miss church
But on a day like today heaven knows how much it hurts

Oh you and me, we could be soakin' up that sun
Findin' out just how fast V's red bike'll run
I tell you there ain't nothin' that'll test your faith
Like a long sermon on a pretty Sunday

See that sunlight shinin' through that stained glass
How much longer is this gonna last

Oh you and me, we could be soakin' up that sun
Findin' out just how fast your new bike'll run
I tell you there ain't nothin' that'll test your faith
Like a long sermon on a pretty Sunday

[Crankin]

I am much less active volunteering at my temple since I started riding. I could go to services on Fri. nights, but, I seem to have little in common with most of the people. There are quite a few riders there, but they travel in different circles (younger kids). I'm pretty sure this has more to do with just riding, because I was very active, on the executive board, president of the Hebrew School when my kids were still in religious school. But, I got burned out. I go to selected social events, usually on Sat. nights, services on the high holidays, plus maybe 1-2 other services a year. We used to regularly go to a breakfast/speaker program once a month on Sundays. No more, it interferes with riding in the spring and fall and x-country skiing in the winter. Perhaps this sounds bad, but I'm more active than a lot of other Jewish people I know. We do holidays with a group of friends that we have had for years; we are all at the same stage of life. kids out of the house (or almost) and just not feeling very spiritual...

[Fredwina]

I've been known to design clubs so that they go by the front door of St. Mark's Episcopal in Upland, Ca right before 10:00AM on Sunday.;)
It does mean some planning and prioritizing. I will miss church for an important ride, and sometimes, it means not riding , or like today, doing a shorter one than I would have liked

[mimitabby]

ha, you didn't even give a category that i fit into!
I went to church as a child, but disagreed vehemently with some things my church did about birth control and banning books and never went back. That was about 40 years ago.

[Grog]

ha, you didn't even give a category that i fit into!
I went to church as a child, but disagreed vehemently with some things my church did about birth control and banning books and never went back. That was about 40 years ago.

I'm with Mimi on that (although it hasn't been 40 years). Although I definitely share Christian values of love, sharing, forgiveness.., I can't stand to attend most religious services anymore. Readings from the Old Testament (I was born a Catholic) make me cringe (it's usually NOT about love, sharing, forgiveness...) if I make the mistake of paying attention, and as an organized institution the church makes me quite sad. (Not to say that this reflects on all religious people, quite to the opposite...)

So on Sundays I ride and go for long runs!

[cosc]

I have always attended church as long as I can remember. Summer I have to miss Sunday School to get a short ride in before I go to church. After church, it is often tooo hot to ride. I'm the only pianist at church so I only miss for a bike vacation. In the winter, church doesn't bother riding time at all, since I like to give the sun a chance to warm up our cold days.

[KnottedYet]

Unitarians are pretty laid back about church attendence. If riding is a spiritual activity for ya', it's cool to miss service. (Hey, we have a church triathlon team!)

I was raised without a religeon. I love the UUs, cuz they are quite the spriritual, accepting, and social bunch. A "Creedless Faith". We got UU Pagans, UU Buddhists, UU Christians, UU Humanists, UU Muslims, UU Jews, etc etc.

Sometimes I think the UUs "officially" follow Jesus' teachings better than most of the US commercial megachurches.

Unitarian Universalists: Common as dirt! Come grow with us! www.uua.org

[wannaduacentury]

I live in the bible belt and attend church regularly(I do sleep in occasionally and miss one due to a trip or cycling event). As long as you're comfortable with it. I know people love to ride on sundays, I usually wait til the afternoon myself, but then I ride on my own so I don't have to keep anyone's schedule. It's a personal choice to ride or not on sunday mornings. Jennifer

[GLC1968]

I also live in the bible belt (the 'buckle' as a friend of mine pointed out! ;) ) and while my DH and I are not church goers, we are in the definite minority. There are NO organized rides on Sunday mornings in our area. Even two day events have services held for those who want to attend (they did this on Sunday of our local MS150).

[Geonz]

We've got the Saturday evening vigil option if there's something going on on Sunday, though I'll miss a Sunday now and again. It's a loving, rather socially and politically active congregation like the one I grew up in ( my parents used our microbus for shuttles to D.C. marches from the church parking lot and we learned "four dead in Ohio" in music class...) - I can fully understand those who can't stomach the hierarchy but sometimes there are pockets of devout defection.
I knew I was prob'ly in a rightful place when the first sermon included the words "menstrual period" :p (explaining just how radical it was to hang out with those unclean women in New Testament times).

[makbike]

I once attended, drifted away, came back and drifted away again. There are many things I love about my religion and many things I don't. I was raised that I could believe without having to attend an organized service. I know some will agree with this and others will shake their heads in sadness. I do have some of my best conversations with the Lord while I'm on my bike. More often than not I feel like a huge, heavy weight has been lifted from my shoulders by the time I make it home. I know I'm being heard, I know I'm being guided and I know I'm loved so life is good, very good.

[Grog]

Sometimes I think the UUs "officially" follow Jesus' teachings better than most of the US commercial megachurches.


Thanks KY, I had heard about them through an American friend, I'm glad I've read more. It's good to read that these people are out there (but they're not in my city)...

[KnottedYet]

Grog-

There's a UU Fellowship in Bellingham, which is pretty active. A bit of a hike from Vancouver, though.

There are also UU churches in Nanaimo, West Vancouver, and Victoria (ok, that one is too far away)

[roguedog]

One of my faves:

SOME KEEP SUNDAY GOING TO CHURCH
by Emily ****inson
American poet (December 10, 1830 - May 15, 1886)

Some keep Sunday going to church
I keep it staying at home,
With a bobolink for a chorister,
And an orchard for a throne.

Some keep Sabbath in surplice,
I just wear my wings
And instead of tolling the bell for church,
Our little sexton sings.

God preaches, a noted clergyman,
And the sermon is never long,
So instead of going to heaven at last
I'm going all along.

[roguedog]

Oh.. jeez.. it filtered out her last name.. ha. somehow i think it'd make her laugh.

[Grog]

Grog-

There's a UU Fellowship in Bellingham, which is pretty active. A bit of a hike from Vancouver, though.

There are also UU churches in Nanaimo, West Vancouver, and Victoria (ok, that one is too far away)

I've seen that on the web site!

Even the West Vancouver one is pretty far. About 10 k in direct line, more than an hour's drive (it's across the water from me!). I'm surprised they don't have a group in Vancouver...

[crazycanuck]

My religion is biking...I beg/plead/pray to the bike gods to help me go faster..they must not be listening..

Anywho, i've never been religious & find church rather boring...

c

[tattiefritter]

Think I'm with Grog and Mimitabby - don't object to Church for other people but a Catholic education put me off for life. Particularly the Catholic church stance on birth control and its opinion of women in general. My grandparents were Irish Catholics and I used to hate the power that the priest was able to exert over their lives. I'll stop there...

[SR500]

Belief is personal, but attending church and study can help strengthen your. Churches are not perfect. It's like everything else the more you put into it the more you can get out of belonging to a church. We attend regularly, and it has had a very positive impact for us and especially our children. I would suggest you "church shop" if you are not happy, there are many great people impacting lives everyday.

[bcipam]

Not pushing anything here... but I can see many who have had a Catholic upbringing have been put off Church for life.

If your belief in God is still strong, may I suggest you try an non-dominational evangelical Church? I would say service and worship is 100% the opposite as what is offered by the Catholic Church. A typical service at my Church is usually started with some great, current Christian music, then of course the accouncements, and then the "discussion". Not ritual, traditional prayer. My pastor generally provides a lecture, much like a college class, on current day issues and how the Bible supports dealing with those issues one way or the other. After comes the collection (and it's necessary to keep a Church running) and then we close with worship. After I always feel so renewed and refreshed. I feel I leave having learned some new, life altering information.
My Church, as does most, offers small study groups if someone wants to learn more, become more involved.

There is something about surrounding one's self with a Christian community; with like minded folks. And I am the first to say, yes there are hypocritical Christians, just like there are hypocritical people in every aspect of life but at least I have the tools to discern Christian hypocracy when I hear it.

Churches are formed by and made by people. We are only human and make many mistakes. Those mistakes should never be attributed to God. His Word is perfect. Problem is, we all sometimes have trouble listening.

I have to admit I have been bad lately about going and I do miss the comfort and joy services provide me. Need to get my gear in order and get back!

[alpinerabbit]

I am pagan, so being out in nature on a sunny morning (any day of the week) is beneficial to my spirituality, I am not missing out on anything :p

[mcoleman]

For me it is a matter of priorities. I was raised in a very religious family and attended a christian school half of my life. We always knew that church attendance was expected on Sunday morning (just like school or work on Monday morning) and activities were adjusted accordingly.
I still try to make church a priority and we are very active in the Presbyterian church. We do miss occaisionally for important events-our local sprint triathlon series is on Sundays-but we try to attend Sunday night instead.
In the summer, we ride on Saturday mornings and run before church on Sundays and this schedule works with our riding buddies. We attend a larger church that offers 3 services on Sunday morning and 1 on Sunday night, so there are more options (although 8:15 AM is perfect for us!).

[limewave]

I enjoy going to church because it helps me to keeps things in persepective--remembering what is truly important, God, and not the little details that I usually get hung up on. And I like singing and meeting new people.

Anyways, in the summer or church attendance is sporadic. I'm hoping next summer we'll be able to bike to church more. We have a 1-year old daughter who was too little this summer to ride in a burley--but next summer she'll be just right. Our church is 20 miles each way. We will be able to get in a nice Sunday morning ride every week.

[sbctwin]

I wasn't raised in a religious home. I was raised in a very dysfunctional home (watching my mom get beat by my dad on a regular basis if things didn't satisfy him or we kids made too much noise, it didn't matter...we were raised in fear). I couldn't wait to get out of the house. I held that baggage for a long time that I was to blame. I got married and my husband left me for his "first love". At that point in my life, I needed something to hold onto, to give me a reason to continue living. My sister was my best friend and helped me a lot, but she was several thousand miles away. Someone invited me to go to church with them...I went...I felt, for once "at home". I went to a Lutheran church at the time. I then attended a Catholic retreat for divorced, widowed and separated individuals. I again, felt someplace where I belonged. I soon met my DH and he was a craddle Catholic. After we were married and moved to SLC, I became a Catholic, too. We go to mass every Saturday night. I have been very lucky with the pastors & priests. Every priest or pastor I have had, has been keen on social justice and "practice" what they preach. I know there are problems with all religions. But, for me, I needed something to hold onto in my life....

[Bad JuJu]

I'm with Mimi and Grog and Tattiefritter, though I was raised in a church other than the Catholic. I was put off by the hypocrisy of a group of people who preached and espoused a philosophy of love but often didn't exercise it, and who sanctioned the inequality of women. Though I wasn't always able to articulate these dissatisfactions with the church, I think I had an inkling of them from an early age. Still, I loved my grandmother, and she loved the church, so I went, and for a while I really got into the spirit of it--I was baptized at the age of 12, being dunked by the pastor into cold, murky water and coming up feeling like everything after that would be all right. I was so trusting and took everything about church teachings so literally.

But when I got older, at some point I realized that my "close personal relationship" with the church, that I grew up learning to cultivate, was pretty much one-sided. I won't go into details--but now I ride my bike on Sunday mornings and find better things to do with my Sunday evenings and Wednesday evenings. I find joy in the world and the people around me.

Sorry if I've shared too much, but this topic hits a nerve.

[mtbdarby]

Not pushing anything here... but I can see many who have had a Catholic upbringing have been put off Church for life.

If your belief in God is still strong, may I suggest you try an non-dominational evangelical Church? I would say service and worship is 100% the opposite as what is offered by the Catholic Church. A typical service at my Church is usually started with some great, current Christian music, then of course the accouncements, and then the "discussion". Not ritual, traditional prayer. My pastor generally provides a lecture, much like a college class, on current day issues and how the Bible supports dealing with those issues one way or the other. After comes the collection (and it's necessary to keep a Church running) and then we close with worship. After I always feel so renewed and refreshed. I feel I leave having learned some new, life altering information.
My Church, as does most, offers small study groups if someone wants to learn more, become more involved.

There is something about surrounding one's self with a Christian community; with like minded folks. And I am the first to say, yes there are hypocritical Christians, just like there are hypocritical people in every aspect of life but at least I have the tools to discern Christian hypocracy when I hear it.

Churches are formed by and made by people. We are only human and make many mistakes. Those mistakes should never be attributed to God. His Word is perfect. Problem is, we all sometimes have trouble listening.

I have to admit I have been bad lately about going and I do miss the comfort and joy services provide me. Need to get my gear in order and get back!

Well said Pam. While I try and figure things out on my own too much and end up fighting my "autopilot", I notice a tremendous change in the outcomes in my life, the miracles, if you will, when I embrace my church, spirituality and fellow Christians. That's what going to church is about - the fellowship. Churchs are run by sinners, so no one is perfect. The best we can do is find one that we feel comfortable in and become a part of that family - like a cycling family. I do attend regularly, and will switch services to get some biking in. My church has even been known to have 2 bike rides a year (I think I'll see if they want to do more:) Of course, it's to the ice cream shop and back, but hey, that definitely goes with cycling!

[mimitabby]

I'm with Mimi and Grog and Tattiefritter, though I was raised in a church other than the Catholic.
-I was baptized at the age of 12, being dunked by the pastor into cold, murky water and coming up feeling like everything after that would be all right. I was so trusting and took everything about church teachings so literally.

But when I got older, at some point I realized that my "close personal relationship" with the church, that I grew up learning to cultivate, was pretty much one-sided. I won't go into details--but now I ride my bike on Sunday mornings and find better things to do with my Sunday evenings and Wednesday evenings. I find joy in the world and the people around me.

Sorry if I've shared too much, but this topic hits a nerve.

BadJuJu
I am with you. God's creation is outdoors, and inside the church mankind's poor window on the goodness of our planet just never cut it with me. I have been to other churches besides the one i was raised in (BCIPAM gets points for figuring out which one it is!)
and so far, all they ever do is make me angry and rebellious. DH and I are in awe of what we were given, the opportunity to share this planet with the birds and the bees. Being on a bike ride in an early morning sunrise, or watching an eagle soar over head, or seeing the salmon thick in the river far surpasses the inspiration that i have ever gotten from any man's interpretation of one old book.
You are right BCIPAM, I would love to find a community as can be found in some churches. But i can't stand the party line! Please forgive me, I do not mean to be offensive. But if the shoe doesn't fit, it hurts your foot.
I guess I'm a heathen too.

[TsPoet]

I am pagan, so being out in nature on a sunny morning (any day of the week) is beneficial to my spirituality, I am not missing out on anything :p

me, too.

I like riding Sunday mornings. I live in a very church oriented area, riding on Sunday as long as I avoid start/end service times is extra peaceful with no one else around, gives me a chance to do my equivalence of "church".

[Grog]

I'd like to thank everyone for the great discussion so far, which I believe to be respectful of everyone's beliefs (or lack thereof) and convictions (or lack thereof).

You're such a wonderful group of women.

[bcipam]

I love being able to discuss religion and no one gets all crazy! Very cool!!

If anyone is interested and wants to discuss Christian based topics, I have discover a forum for that entitled crosswalk.com. It has everything from "women only" health issue discussions to heavy duty theological discussions that I can barely participate in. But there is something for everyone and great place to ask any burning questions you may have.

Another note - I also truly see God in being outdoors. I think that's why all my life, even though my folks were not outdoorsy folks I've always been outside. If anyone has ever climbed Mt. Whitney, about 2/3's of the way up, after a really brutal, rocky ascent, you will reach an alpine meadow with flowering iris and other wildflowers, a small water fall and clear, meadering stream and you know, I mean you truly know, that this wonderfully beautiful place was designed by God. The first time there I had to drop to my knee and give thanks and I cried and cried cause it was so beautiful (OK I was also alittle out of it due to high attitude sickness I admit).

Every time I'm riding my MTB bike and come across a herd of deer, you see the beautiful design of their sleek, muscular bodies and undestand the cycle of life, in how He created it; the raptors soring overhead, the birds flying between the trees, the butterfly and insects, snakes, even the awesome spiders.

I mean I could go on and on about seeing a beautiful day and the beauty of nature and know that this was all created by intelligent design. The puzzle pieces that are our world are just too complicated to be created by chance. I think we all see God in our own way and we worship something spiritual that is a creator. I've given my Creator a name, but I would bet we know and feel the beauty created by the same Being. I have no problem with the ways others worship Him. I personal feel sad for those who have not felt His Spirit. The effect on the mind and body is empowering!!! I just wish you can all be on my "drug"!

[suzieqtwa]

I'm with Grog ,and Mimitabby. Religion is a BIG turn off to me. My upbringing was Catholic . I just live my life as good as I can. Not sure what going to happen to after I die ,but I guess Ill find out. I haven't been to church in 30 years.

[spokewench]

Boy that is opening a can of worms! I'm not religious - no excuses just don't think church is necessary in my life. My grandma who was a Mennonite, a great woman and very open minded, once asked me when I was little "Are you a christian? I then asked her what is a "christian" and even though she was from a very fundamental type of church she said "it means treating people like you would like to be treated yourself". My answer then was "yes" and I definitely try to make that a part of my interactions with others so I guess in those terms, I am a "Christian". In other people's definitions, I'm sure I am not!

I know that many people find strength and belief in formal religion and I applaud them for that. I don't like a lot of things that are caused by formal religion so I am really not able to believe in any specific church/religious tenents myself. But, that is why we live in a diverse world so that people can believe anything and everything they want to.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I'm with Mimi (as usual),

This Sunday morning I spent cycling through the crisp air in the sun past golden dry fields of whispering grasses, side by side with the one I love. It was so beautiful an experience it was like spiritual and uplifting. We discussed it together and he and I agreed that this oneness with the beauty of Nature and our own minds and bodies was like our religion. It makes us humble and grateful and able to love other human beings too. It strengthens us inside and out, and comforts us in times of sorrow. It aligns one's molecules into harmonious patterns somehow. And isn't that what it's all about?
No offense, but I found the premise of this poll too narrow to begin with- setting the limiting perimeter of "going to church"...which overlooks many non-christian religions as well as nature-based or individual meditation type beliefs. :)

[lph]

If anyone has ever climbed Mt. Whitney, about 2/3's of the way up, after a really brutal, rocky ascent, you will reach an alpine meadow with flowering iris and other wildflowers, a small water fall and clear, meadering stream and you know, I mean you truly know, that this wonderfully beautiful place was designed by God. The first time there I had to drop to my knee and give thanks and I cried and cried cause it was so beautiful

You know bcipam - this makes me happy to read, because it reminds me of experiencing the same things, even though my starting point is different. Personally I'm an agnostic going on atheist, but I've also fallen to my knees and cried from sheer awe. I can't attribute it to a God, but the experience of enormous beauty in the world is amazing, and I'm happy that others can feel the same no matter how or if they choose to explain it.

If God should turn out to exist I have the feeling He'd agree :-)

[bcipam]

Boy that is opening a can of worms! I'm not religious - no excuses just don't think church is necessary in my life. My grandma who was a Mennonite, a great woman and very open minded, once asked me when I was little "Are you a christian? I then asked her what is a "christian" and even though she was from a very fundamental type of church she said "it means treating people like you would like to be treated yourself". My answer then was "yes" and I definitely try to make that a part of my interactions with others so I guess in those terms, I am a "Christian". In other people's definitions, I'm sure I am not!

I know that many people find strength and belief in formal religion and I applaud them for that. I don't like a lot of things that are caused by formal religion so I am really not able to believe in any specific church/religious tenents myself. But, that is why we live in a diverse world so that people can believe anything and everything they want to.

I know this discussion is maybe getting off topic, but as a reponse - a Christian is one who has accepted Jesus Christ as their savior. That doesn't mean if you have not, that you aren't a good person. I know many wonderful people who are good, and gracious and wonderful but have not accepted Jesus. Many philosophies (I grew up as Buddist) have as a core belief "to do unto others...".

Also I know it's hard, but please separate faith from religion. Faith is my belief. It's how the Spirit fills me. Religion is my "church" or how I practice my belief. Religion does have it problems. Again houses of worship are run by people. People set doctrine for religion, so there are flaws. This is why one is encouraged to independently study the Bible in order to gain the skills to discern between the truth and well, lies and deceitful behavior. Yes I know Christian people to have affairs. I know them to lie and cheat and abuse their fellow man. They can be rascist, bigots, just plain jerks but none of this is condoned by the teachings of Christ. We, sadly and pitifully are flawed beings.

I do have the right to judge others and I know this meets the disapproval of some. But if I am unwilling to discern between right and wrong, good and bad, then there is no right/wrong or good/bad, everyone would have the right to act as he pleased. Thankfully Christian values keeps us from legally murdering one another, or stealing or cheating. The one misunderstanding I hear and read most often is that "I don't like religion becasue it forces certain beliefs on me (such as no abortion etc)" A true Christian knows and understands that God would never forced anyone to do what they are not willing to do. He has given us free choice and does not for want to force His love on us. Yes I understand some Churches are very judgmental and would condemn one for their beliefs, but don't judge his all by that Church or that religion.

Again these are just my views. I enjoy hearing how others feel and think. I believe we are all entitled to choose our paths in life...

[ridethewind]

Here's another thumbs down for church attendance. I used to attend as a child and teenager, but only because my parents forced me to go. I gave up attending when I turned 18 and haven't been back since. That was 37 years ago and I haven't regretted the decision to quit one bit.


___________________
Jean

[Eden]

This is all fascinating and I thank everyone for being so open and so civil. I thought that though discussing religion can be taboo and often rancerous that it would be safe to discuss it both on this forum and in this manner.

Personally I did not grow up attending church. My father's family was roman catholic and I think as many people here have voiced an upbringing and schooling in the church put him off of the lifestyle. My mothers family I think may have been lutheran or something like that, but her dad died when she was very young so I think her mom had too much on her hands being a single working mother with 4 kids to worry about being a loyal church goer. By the time I came along neither parent was a church attender.

My husband did grow up going to church with his mom, but feels very much as Mimi and Grog do about conflicts with what the church preaches vs how they act. I've never known him to go to services and did not even know he had once until we visited his parents.

My view is that if it gives you personal peace or fullfilment that any religion/philosophy that a person wants to follow is the right one. I know very happy, very balanced people from various religions who are quite devout and I really think that their religion has a lot to do with their personalities. I've never been, ummm comfortable would be the right word I guess, with ceremony religious or non religious so I would have a hard time sitting through a church service. I would feel like I was doing something wrong by being there as spectator rather than a believer I guess. That's not to say I've never felt spiritual, just not in a church setting.

[Popoki_Nui]

Colour me agnostic. I just don't think such things as God or gods are knowable. So we believe, or we don't. I can neither believe, nor can I completely disbelieve. Sometimes I think it would be nice to find the comfort you Believers find in your God, other times I find comfort in my own sprituality. One thing about my agnosticism is that I am always open to ideas from Believers and non-Believers alike.

[bcipam]

I've never been, ummm comfortable would be the right word I guess, with ceremony religious or non religious so I would have a hard time sitting through a church service. I would feel like I was doing something wrong by being there as spectator rather than a believer I guess. That's not to say I've never felt spiritual, just not in a church setting.

This is where finding the right church helps. I think everyone has this view of folks in their Sunday fineness, sitting ramrod straight on wooden benches singing from old dusty hymnals and listening to fiery brimstone sermons.

Modern churches are way removed from that. My Church doesn't look like a church at all. It's a large auditorium and the seats are like any movie theater. It's nicely air conditioned in the summer. We dress casually, I usually do jeans and sometimes even shorts in the summer. The worship music is killer (rock, alternative, gospel) and there are no "sermons." Just discussions and lectures, sometimes one of the parnishioners will tell their story of how they found Christ or of their experienced doing missionary work.

Just for the experience, there is no catch, drop into a service at an community evangelical or Calvary church to see what I mean. I know my church encourages people from all walks and is very "PC" to the fact not everyone in attendance is Christian (in fact, we have an alliance with the local muslim/jewish/buddist groups. Very close to my Church is Soka University which is a solely run and funded Buddist University and their students are encouraged to check out the local churches). They assume some people are just checking it out or want to find answers or are looking and searching for something else. Not everyone is Christian who goes to Church and not everyone who calls themselves Christian and attends church is a Christian. Only God knows whats in our hearts.

[Eden]

Interestingly enough I was just crusing around a local bike forum and someone was asking about whether or not they could do the STP (Seattle to Portland classic) on Friday and Saturday because they have a religious commitment on Sunday.

[hellosunshine]

ive deepest respect for people that really feel this force of spirituality,im not trying to be bloody minded but i stopped going to church as soon as my parents let me off the hook,is it a dying phenomenon?what is the average age of church goers?and do people tend to do more for charity these days which is prob worth a lotta weight in the great scheme of things,and almost like a religion,if you see what i mean.......

[Bluetree]

do people tend to do more for charity these days which is prob worth a lotta weight in the great scheme of things,and almost like a religion,if you see what i mean.......

Years ago, I attended Temple during the High Holy Days with my then-BF. It was a progressive/reformist rabbi (a woman) and one of the topics for discussion was whether to continue services (it was at the Beverly Hills Hotel ballroom) when hotel workers may stage a strike outside for better wages.

She told this story:
A rabbi was on his way to Temple one day, and heard a baby crying. Looking into a window, he saw an unattend babe. He went in, and held the baby until it stopped crying and went to sleep. Meanwhile, all the townspeople were at the synagogue waiting for him. He never showed. After a while, they became upset and went frantically in search of him, wondering what happened. When they finally found him, sitting with a sleeping baby, they became angry at him for causing them to miss their services over such an insignificant event. He looked at them and said, "This child was in need and I came to help. Have you learned nothing from me? The acts of God and more important than the Words of God."

After the rabbi told the story, she explained that regardless of where one stood on the proposed strike, it was important to acknowledge the struggles of people fighting for a better life for themselvs and their families. And as Jews, they should all recognize that.
With that, she announced that should the strike happen, she would not cross the picket lines. She said, "If we have to, we'll pray on the beach in front of the ocean. It doesn't matter what building is above our heads, God can hear us. But always, Acts of Godliness are paramount."
I still remember that after all these years.
BTW, The strike was settled, and averted.

[Crankin]

I find this discussion fascinating. I notice not too many non-Christian religions speaking up, so even though I already said something, I will open up my big mouth. Most American Jews are not religious or observant. I would say that I'm religious, but not observant. My temple is consiously independent, i.e. is not formally associated with one of the 3 major branches of Judaism. This is a financial burden, but we like it this way. No one can tell us how to think! Our rabbi, who has been with the congregation 30 years, started as a lay leader. he was a psychologist first, and then at great personal expense, commuted to NYC to go to school and become ordained. What I like about Judaism is that a congregation doesn't need a rabbi to be a congregation.
I was raised totally unreligiously, in a predominantly Jewish suburb. I learned what I could from my friends and my boyfriend's family in particular. I always joke that my family likes to think they came over on the Mayflower... I got more religiously active when I moved to a place where I was more of a minority. When it came time to raise my kids, we decided that we would not be hypocrites, so instead of just sending the kids to a JCC preschool, we became active there and more observant. It was wonderful and it continued through their school years. They both had Bar Mitzvahs and went through to confirmation in 10th grade. I know it's "in there." My son in the Marines has put up with a lot of crap for his religion, but he gives it right back. He goes to services pretty frequently and I am proud of him for this. My other son has a serious girlfriend who isn't Jewish and is introducing her to aspects of the religion. It's interesting to see how he is dealing with this.
Well, just my .02. I don't want to change my religion, but right now I'd rather be on my bike than at services or volunteering.

[bcipam]

ive deepest respect for people that really feel this force of spirituality,im not trying to be bloody minded but i stopped going to church as soon as my parents let me off the hook,is it a dying phenomenon?what is the average age of church goers?and do people tend to do more for charity these days which is prob worth a lotta weight in the great scheme of things,and almost like a religion,if you see what i mean.......

Its interesting my folks live in Mississippi. My dad attends a very old methodist church. Very traditional. I would say the average age is 65 - 70 and the congregation is dying.

My Church has a huge youth ministry. The average adult age I would say is 35 - 40. It's a very young church. Where I live (Southern California) many churches are active youth ministries. It's become very popular here to be Christian. CHruch have made it a point to approach services with a youthful viewpoint. Look at the worship music. Downright Rock or Alternative!

Here in Orange County we have several mega churches - Rick Warren's SAddleback is one and my church - COast Hills is another. Churches are growing not slowing, at least here where I live.

[Dianyla]

Well, since cycling is one of my religions... then as far as I'm concerned a Sunday ride counts as a sacrament. :p

[slinkedog]

I am a consistent church-goer. I, like Pam, attend a non-denominational Christian church. I, like many of you, grew up Catholic, but was drawn to the message of my church: that God loved me and wanted to be close to me; that he had dreams and plans for me that he wanted to make real in my life. I didn't feel condemned for the mess I had made of my life, either. I found my Catholic church to be rather rigid and impersonal, but in hindsight, I wonder if I had been willing to become more involved, if I might have felt differently.

In any case, I love God, but in many ways I don't understand him. I went through a time in the last year where I was very frustrated with the "Christian-ese" answers to the hard questions of life. A few months back I was in a meeting with a guy from a church in So. California who was a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist. This guy could take the most complex idea and make it like crystal. We were discussing what are some of the major turn-offs for people regarding church, and one of them was patness, or the idea of having a bunch of pat answers for everything. He said, "God puts a premium on mystery. It's okay not to understand him. We've got to become comfortable with that idea." That was a watershed moment for me. I felt free to be comfortable with not understanding the whys and wherefores of everything.

So, that's where I'm at on my personal spiritual journey. Faith seeking understanding. I believe, but I don't get it all yet. It's a good place and I'm having fun seeking. :)

[Bad JuJu]

This Sunday morning I spent cycling through the crisp air in the sun past golden dry fields of whispering grasses, side by side with the one I love. It was so beautiful an experience it was like spiritual and uplifting. We discussed it together and he and I agreed that this oneness with the beauty of Nature and our own minds and bodies was like our religion. It makes us humble and grateful and able to love other human beings too. It strengthens us inside and out, and comforts us in times of sorrow. It aligns one's molecules into harmonious patterns somehow. And isn't that what it's all about?

I've felt the same kind of awe and humility in breathtaking natural surroundings. And I think we can appreciate natural beauty and nature's remarkable workings without always and only ascribing them to a mystical creator. The world is wondrous in itself--the way two rudimentary cells can combine and change to make a sentient being, the way life forms have developed to fill every possible niche in nature, the way tides ebb and flow, seasons change (or don't change, depending on where you live)--I could go on and on. I've written briefly about this wonder on my blog, if you care to read it:
On Wonder--It Is What It Is (http://wksinprogress.blogspot.com/2006/06/on-wonder-it-is-what-it-is.html)
We all see different things in nature, but we should try to realize that most of what we see depends on what we've been taught to see.

[HappyAnika]

"I'd rather be climbing a mountain thinking about God than sitting in a church thinking about climbing a mountain"

I saw that on a hiking forum and I really liked it. For the sake of this forum we can replace "climbing a mountain" with "riding my bike" (unless of course you like to climb mountains on your bike . . .).

I'm not religious myself, I'm more with the spiritual nature-loving crowd. I like to be outdoors to experience the connectedness of living things with nature.

[snapdragen]

My family stopped going to church (Calvin Presbyterian) when I was very young. Mom was at some kind of a social thing, a tea perhaps, when, as she put it "one of the good church ladies" made a remark about the church allowing "those people" in. "Those people" were African Americans. Mom left, and announced we would never be back.

[btchance]

Years ago, I attended Temple during the High Holy Days with my then-BF. It was a progressive/reformist rabbi (a woman) and one of the topics for discussion was whether to continue services (it was at the Beverly Hills Hotel ballroom) when hotel workers may stage a strike outside for better wages.

She told this story:
A rabbi was on his way to Temple one day, and heard a baby crying. Looking into a window, he saw an unattend babe. He went in, and held the baby until it stopped crying and went to sleep. Meanwhile, all the townspeople were at the synagogue waiting for him. He never showed. After a while, they became upset and went frantically in search of him, wondering what happened. When they finally found him, sitting with a sleeping baby, they became angry at him for causing them to miss their services over such an insignificant event. He looked at them and said, "This child was in need and I came to help. Have you learned nothing from me? The acts of God and more important than the Words of God."

After the rabbi told the story, she explained that regardless of where one stood on the proposed strike, it was important to acknowledge the struggles of people fighting for a better life for themselvs and their families. And as Jews, they should all recognize that.
With that, she announced that should the strike happen, she would not cross the picket lines. She said, "If we have to, we'll pray on the beach in front of the ocean. It doesn't matter what building is above our heads, God can hear us. But always, Acts of Godliness are paramount."
I still remember that after all these years.
BTW, The strike was settled, and averted.

I love that, and it is so true.

I never went to church, but was always taught the correct way to treat other people, and to see the spirituality in the world around us. However, my hometown is extremely religious (14 square miles, over 20 churches in that area, maybe more than 30). If you didn't go to the correct church, many parent's wouldn't allow their kids to have anything to do with you. Their whole lives revolved around church and church functions. This made it very difficult growing up, going to parties, going shopping or to the movies, dating, and even discussions at lunch. This still puts a negative light on organized religion for me. I know it's not like that in other areas, but it, and my always questioning nature, makes it hard for me to have any desire to participate in church activities. I know it is a huge part of life for many people, and I'll always respect it, as long as they respect me for who I am and what I believe.

(eh, I hope this all came out right, and makes some element of sense)

[slinkedog]

I know it's not like that in other areas, but it, and my always questioning nature, makes it hard for me to have any desire to participate in church activities. I know it is a huge part of life for many people, and I'll always respect it, as long as they respect me for who I am and what I believe.

(eh, I hope this all came out right, and makes some element of sense)


Nothing wrong with a questioning nature in church, imho. If there's something wrong with it, then I need to get out, I guess. ;)

All kidding aside, I do respect everyone's right to believe what they believe. Who the heck am I to think I can tell someone else what to think? All I know is that God (not church) kept me from killing myself, andthe good people in that church who loved me, just as I was, helped a lot.

[CR400]

I go to church almost every Sunday morning and evenings as well. Plus the mid week service on Thursday. I have gone to church all my life. I go not because I feel that I have to out of some religous duty but because I want to.

When I do ride on Sunday it is usually between services, or I will plan my rest days for Sunday and Thursday. We actually have a small group along with a race team at my church so we get in our road time it just isn't usually on Sunday. In fact my pastor is one of the biggest hammerheads I know, he does quite well in the races we do, for him 12+ races in a season is average. I'm still new so I don't race as often as the others. Usually we race on Saturday only but about two to three times a year we will all go to a sunday race or TT. We also host our own charity rides and one day tours.

Besides everytime I have missed church to ride my bike I have got into an accident, mostly small over the handle bar stuff, but still.

[Grog]

Besides everytime I have missed church to ride my bike I have got into an accident, mostly small over the handle bar stuff, but still.

Wow! Then it's probably better you don't loose faith!!! :eek: :D

[tygab]

Interesting topic indeed. I'm with Robyn, well indirectly anyway.
I was raised Jewish in central Illinois, so even though I was part of a thriving synogogue in town, I remember always being the only Jewish kid in the class, and almost yearly being asked to do a little talk on the Jewish holidays & customs. As a kid, I felt at once honored but also a bit burdened by this. Now I am thankful the teachers wanted me to share.

I have always felt more spiritual outside among natural settings and in truth do most of my deep thinking/praying there, but I do think the community of a religion has a purpose and as I'm getting older, I've come to appreciate that a bit more.

One of the things I love about Judaism, at least the way I interact with it, is kind of like what Robyn said - I have to think my own way through the journey. The temple I go to is not affiliated formally, having people from the 'big 3' backgrounds, and a reconstructionist bent.

My dad was Catholic growing up (I mean his childhood, not mine). I think he found more of a home in Judaism though and was/is active in my hometown congregation and I think of him as Jewish in practice if not in name... My husband is Catholic, and from an observant and religious family. They have always been very welcoming and when Christmas falls during Hanukkah, as it often has these last several years, we observe both, even at their home.

Most of my angst about formal religion comes from the ways I see it used to divide and make one group feel superior to others, or worse... I just don't get that and never will. But in the grand scheme of things I still think and hope, that is the exception & not the norm of religious institutions. After all, they too evolve...

[Fredwina]

I love that, and it is so true.
I know it's not like that in other areas, but it, and my always questioning nature, makes it hard for me to have any desire to participate in church activities.
That's one of the reasons I'm Episcopalian. We actually encourage people to think about their faith,(I think 3/4 of out folks started out as something else, myself included) and I like that we have all of God's people, and not just all of god white-middle class people. If you're still religious, but got turned off, find a different tent, so to speak. I think there is a reason for so many different religious expressions.
Bicycle related content : Our Rector points out that I'm the only parishioner who gets covered parking :)

[mimitabby]

YOU GUYS ARE ALL WONDERFUL!!

:) :eek: :rolleyes: :D :o :p :rolleyes: :) :D :o
I cannot believe this conversation is happening. I was holding my breath on page one. Sheesh. Let it flow.

[slinkedog]

That's one of the reasons I'm Episcopalian. We actually encourage people to think about their faith,(I think 3/4 of out folks started out as something else, myself included) and I like that we have all of God's people, and not just all of god white-middle class people.


As I read these responses, it makes me sad to think that people's freedom of thought has been, or at least it is perceived as so, repressed in the church. I think if you read the words of Jesus, you will find that that's not what he was about.

[Fredwina]

As I read these responses, it makes me sad to think that people's freedom of thought has been, or at least it is perceived as so, repressed in the church. I think if you read the words of Jesus, you will find that that's not what he was about.

True. I always wonder how people Reconcile the "Meek and Mild" Jesus with one who overturns table at the temple.

[Bluetree]

***sigh***

[mimitabby]

It frightens me to think how much religion is incorporated into conservative U.S. politics.

And it amazes me how values/ideals such as tolerance, eliminating poverty and protecting the earth have suddenly become bad things to many evangelicals (and Fox News, too).

I am not a religious person, but I always thought that if God/Christ/Allah/Buddha et al, registered with anyone it would be the Green Party. :p

Yes, not only that, he believed that you should pay your taxes.
:D :D :D :D

[mtbdarby]

It frightens me to think how much religion is incorporated into conservative U.S. politics.

And it amazes me how values/ideals such as tolerance, eliminating poverty and protecting the earth have suddenly become bad things to many evangelicals (and Fox News, too).

I am not a religious person, but I always thought that if God/Christ/Allah/Buddha et al, registered with anyone it would be the Green Party. :p

Our constitution was based off of Christian beliefs (not denomonation specific), so it really isn't, or in my opinion, shouldn't be a surprise that religion is incorporated into our politics. What frightens me is that we're now trying to eliminate it. There's a saying I remember from my college days: "Stand for something or you'll fall for anything". I think there's a whole generation of people who don't believe in anything and are focusing more on material and selfish matters struggling to find their place/purpose in this world. Call it God/Christ/Allah/Buddha/Spiritualism, etc. but I do feel that's missing from our culture these days. Just my rambling thoughts, hope I don't offend.

Pam, I would LOVE to go to Rick Warren's church! I think he's a great speaker. Have you ever gone there?

[ridethewind]

Our constitution was based off of Christian beliefs (not denomonation specific), so it really isn't, or in my opinion, shouldn't be a surprise that religion is incorporated into our politics. What frightens me is that we're now trying to eliminate it.

There is a reason the founding fathers placed the Establishment Clause in the Constitution. They had seen first hand the difficulties caused by too much of an entanglement between government and religion. Religion and government have their proper spheres. Too much entanglement is bad, as is the complete disregard of religion. The balance struck by the founding fathers has worked well for over 200 years. I don't think it should be tampered with.

____________
Jean

[slinkedog]

I think that there is no way politics can be devoid of faith unless people of faith no longer participate in the political system. We *all* bring our morals and beliefs to the political table, and to think that, because my morals are bound up in my faith (as I believe is the case for many) that somehow makes me unfit to be involved in the political system, to me, is pretty unfair.

Editing to also say that I was reading an article that states that people of faith are the most generous when it comes to helping those in need and giving to charities. I disagree with Fox News (if that's what they say, I don't watch it) that eliminating poverty and protecting the earth are bad things. We, as Christians, are charged with making this place better. Jesus refers to the Church as the Body of Christ, i.e., we are his hands and feet and are supposed to be about the business of doing the things that he cares about. Taking care of each other *should* be high on the list! In my church, it is a priority. I realize that the church, as an institution, has not always done well in this area. I hope that we all remember that churches are filled with fallible people, who, like all of us, are still on our individual journeys to being better people. I hope that people of faith do a better job of loving people as we go forward.

[Bad JuJu]

Just a reminder that it IS possible to stand for something, even if you don't subscribe to a religion or belief in a deity. There is such a thing as morality that is not based on faith, but on something like the golden rule--do unto others as you would have them do unto you. We don't have to be threatened by divine retribution to see the rightness in living according to that rule. Just my two cents.

[Trek420]

slinkedog "I think if you read the words of Jesus, you will find that that's not what he was about."

The Jewish gal chimes in, I'm just a little Jewish kid from Petaluma, not raised observant or anything (although my Grandfather was a Cantor) but anywho from what I've read/heard/learned this Jesus guy was a pretty radical dude. You know, judge not lest you be...being judged as a Christian by how you treat others...a lot of really cool stuff. But lots of people don't read those parts. :o

[crazycanuck]

I'm getting rather annoyed with this thread..I know you ladies mean well but this is not a place for relgion nor a place to promote christian beliefs. I don't come to a biking board to read about religion and praying :mad: .

I'm trying to keep my mouth shut as there are so many things i could say but it would get me kicked off the board...:(

c

[bcipam]

Pam, I would LOVE to go to Rick Warren's church! I think he's a great speaker. Have you ever gone there?

It's funny you say that... Have actually been to Saddleback a number of times - it' one of the local mega churches and actually competes with my Church (Coast Hills). Warren is a dynamic speaker but there is something about him I well just don't like. I liked my old pastor who was quiet, and sweet, but very passionate about his faith. Saddleback is quite the powerhouse and many of my friends attend services there
* * *

One thing I am concerned about that folks equate conservative religion with not being tolerant, or compassionate etc. My church gives a large portion of its collected money to help the poor. It established "Hope's House" a retreat for battered and abuse women. It regularly makes trips to Mexico to build houses and treat the needy with medical care. I give as much as I can to a number of charities and do support special governmental programs for those in need. These beliefs do not just belong to liberals. In addition, what is tolerance? I hear all too often conservatives are not tolerate but liberals only "tolerant" viewpoints that support their own. Both sides have their own agenda. Tolerance BTW does not mean condoning or accepting someone or something it means to allow without prohibiting or opposing. In other words, I believe abortion is wrong however, I tolerate one's belief to make that choice.

I don't think Fox News speaks for the conservative right. Most of those guys (especially Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh) are hacks. Talk about trolls!

Bottom line the evangelical church is not filled with only right wing conservatives, there are people there from all walks of life, both right and left (I'm in the middle but have been registered Democrat most of my life). Worshipping God is far above any petty( or not so petty) earthly issue. Again, I think churches by and large have gotten a bad rap. There are all sorts, ones to suit any needs, thoughts and desire as long as in your heart you are there to worship God. I agree church and state should be separate; religion and politics are definitely two separate issues.

[bcipam]

I'm getting rather annoyed with this thread..I know you ladies mean well but this is not a place for relgion nor a place to promote christian beliefs. I don't come to a biking board to read about religion and praying :mad: .

I'm trying to keep my mouth shut as there are so many things i could say but it would get me kicked off the board...:(

c

Crazy - this discussion has been cordial and informative and I'm glad I have a place to exchange these ideas with reasonable women. Sorry it offends. I would recommended you no longer visit the tread but I invite you to stay because so many wonderful ideas have been exchanged.

And Trek - you so get it!!! Jesus was a radical dude. He led by example but did not judge. If only we could all be that cool. I have a long way to go... :-(

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I'm getting rather annoyed with this thread..I know you ladies mean well but this is not a place for relgion nor a place to promote christian beliefs. I don't come to a biking board to read about religion and praying :mad: .

I'm trying to keep my mouth shut as there are so many things i could say but it would get me kicked off the board...:(

c

After some reflection, I have to agree with this. Firstly, why is this thread under "Cycling Related" Topics?? And Second (and more importantly) if we read the forum guidelines plainly printed under Open Topic(Non-cycling related) here is what it says:
"Remember, the focus of these forums is women's cycling and fitness. Other forums exist elsewhere on the Internet for involved discussions of religion, politics, etc."
This thread seems to be starting to evolve into a religion/politics/WhatWouldJesusDo kind of debate. They always do, people always get upset, and that's why politics and religion just don't blend well in online forums and are usually on the list of stuff not to start threads about.

[slinkedog]

You guys are right. Sorry!

[Grog]

This thread is under 'Cycling topics' I believe because Eden (is that right?) started a poll about how church-going habits and cycling habits coexisted.

I would agree with moving the thread under non-cycling open topics if a moderator wants to do that. However I don't think crazycanuck would be kicked out for what she has to say. A number of us, including myself, have expressed disagreement, skepticism, or other non-churchly feelings, done so respectfully, and the discussion has only grown better... I am in fact quite impressed at the level of maturity I have read here.

I wouldn't promote TE as a spirituality forum, but considering that many have expressed that riding their bikes in nature is a spiritual experience... well I can tolerate a thread on such a topic once in a while.

[bcipam]

OK last post for me - but they are many other threads and discussions on this forum that are totally non-bike related from favorite snacks, to movies, to personal issues etc. I think as long as the discussion is cordial and interesting it should be allowed but once someone starts to complaint, it's time to move on.

This forum to me has always been my safe haven. Time and again it gets testy (lord I remember the can of worms I opened by mentioning Dr. Laura) and we must change the subject but I never ever want to feel like I can't be open and be able to discuss things that matter to me with you all. Although I am a cyclist and cycling bought me to this site, I am also a member of this community and consider it "family" of a sort and enjoy discussions with everyone even if the topic gets "off topic".

PS: What's more spiritual than riding a bike?

[slinkedog]

PS: What's more spiritual than riding a bike?

Sex?? ;)

[bcipam]

you had to go there... what's sex????? Been so long can't remember! :rolleyes:

[Kitsune06]

I rarely post anymore, but I'll come out of lurkdom for this.

I'm a no-go for church. I've been to the local UU church and loved it, but felt also that I don't really need that type of community- just to touch on it now and again and reaffirm that yes, it's still there.

I was raised somewhat religiously, they were pretty relaxed, teaching me that it was okay to ask questions when I needed to know something. Obviously, the answers did not work for me, for reasons I don't wish to elaborate on right now.

I believe that we are all gods and goddesses in our own right and the will and the way of the universe is dictated through our own intentions and efforts. I'm not sure what 'category' that falls under, but really, I think all religions have a hint of truth in them... their main shortcomings are that they are perpetuated by people, with peoples' motivations, selective memories and natural us vs. them natures.

I believe that closed-mindedness is our single greatest hurdle spiritually. If we cannot rise above our native black and white to the world of grey that exists, we are no better than children. If we cannot find our way in this world of grey without someone dictating rules to us, we are weak and must find the strength in ourselves. If we cannot help our friends when they lose their way, then we will never be able to help ourselves. Finally, we are not our bodies. The body and the spirit influence each other, reflect one another, but they are not the same. After the body passes on, the spirit still exists, to what end, I don't know.

As far as sex goes, sex is the representation of will, passion, and desire. To me, lovemaking is spiritual, when you feel the bond you create with your lover... Sex is less so... the above representation...

[SR500]

Wow, I'm really surprised by the poll. I'm not really sure what people mean when they are a "spiritual person" I understand being inspired, calmed, enlightened, etc... by the beauty of nature. Also living by a moral/ethic code lets us have a civil county, but to me Faith/Belief is what is important. Churches simply assist people in developing their faith, if your church doesn't help you in this manner, there are churches that can. Please look around for one that suits you.

As for politics and religion, I think its BS. I don't have any problems with "In God we trust", etc... but the government should let people decide for themselves on personal matters.

I hope to not offend anyone, but to simply suggest the option to people that have had less then positive experiences. There are places that will help them on their spiritual journey, if you will.


Spiritual (Adjective)
1. Concerned with sacred matters or religion or the church; "religious texts"; "monks of a religious order"; "lords temporal and spiritual"; "spiritual leaders"; "spiritual songs".

2. Concerned with or affecting the spirit or soul; "a spiritual approach to life"; "spiritual fulfillment"; "spiritual values"; "unearthly love".

3. Lacking material body or form or substance; "spiritual beings"; "the vital transcendental soul belonging to the spiritual realm"-Lewis Mumford.

4. Relating to or concerned with religion or spiritual things; especially dedicated to service in a religion; "a monk of a religious order"; "spiritual leaders"; "religious books"; "spiritual songs".

Faith (Noun)
1. A strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality".

Source: WordNet 1.7.1 Copyright © 2001 by Princeton University. All rights reserved.

[Eden]

This thread is under 'Cycling topics' I believe because Eden (is that right?) started a poll about how church-going habits and cycling habits coexisted.

I would agree with moving the thread under non-cycling open topics if a moderator wants to do that. However I don't think crazycanuck would be kicked out for what she has to say. A number of us, including myself, have expressed disagreement, skepticism, or other non-churchly feelings, done so respectfully, and the discussion has only grown better... I am in fact quite impressed at the level of maturity I have read here.

I wouldn't promote TE as a spirituality forum, but considering that many have expressed that riding their bikes in nature is a spiritual experience... well I can tolerate a thread on such a topic once in a while.


Let me first say I've been impressed with all of you and that you have remained quite open minded. My intent was definitely not to debate or cause debate about any particular religion, but I am truely curious about the interaction and maybe this comes from the fact that I am not religious and wasn't raised as such so I wonder about it at times. I guess I was really curious to know if we are a less religious group than the non-cycling community or if it was just my personal bias. At least as far as organized religion goes and it seems that we are. I won't attempt to draw any conclusions from that because I don't think that it is possible from a small group such as this and there are plenty of variables that could explain it other than cycling and probably plenty of explanations that could be related to cycling that I can't get at with such a small poll.

The one thing that I do find to be interesting is that no one rearranged their religious service to free their weekends. I thank you all for satisfying my curiosity and remaining in civil conversation. And please feel free to happily retire this thread.

[Deborajen]

I doubt that cyclists as a group are less religious than any other group. I've noticed that running events are often on Sunday mornings as are more and more other sports events, but I assumed this is because of competition for available time and resources. With Monday-Friday work schedules, weekends are good for recreational activities and with mornings being good for cycling, running, etc. due to the lowest temperatures of the day, that makes Saturday and Sunday mornings good options. Also, lots of businesses used to be closed on Sundays but now most are open Sunday afternoons if not all day Sunday.

I've enjoyed this thread, too, and have been very impressed with how respectful everyone has been. It may have shifted to a non-cycling topic - and gone a little off limits for this forum's rules - but I must say it's been enlightening to read about the wide variety of viewpoints. When it comes to the poll, I haven't been much of a churchgoer since my college years although I used to attend regularly. However, I would attend an alternate service to accomodate good outdoor time, and I have friends who are more committed to their church attendance that do attend alternate services for the same reason. My faith is very personal to me and time being "alone" with God - on the bike, on the running paths, or even at home in a room by myself for that matter - is some of the best. Sometimes I do miss the spiritual nurturing from attending church, but church isn't strictly a Sunday morning idea for me.

Thanks for starting the thread, and thanks everyone for being such a unique group that can make this work! :)

Deb

[Lifesgreat]

I agree, this has been an interesting thread to read. I have enjoyed learning more about all of you and your beliefs.

I believe people should be able to worship whatever they want, any way they want.

My family and I attend church every Sunday and we volunteer and participate in various church activities during the week as well. My religious beliefs are a constant guide for me in my daily activities. Many years ago, when I was a competitive runner, I made the decision not to ride, run, train, etc. on Sundays. I don't regret my decision, but wish some of the BIG bike, tri and running events were not on Sunday as I would like to participate.