I want to ride faster

[momof4greatkids]

I want to ride faster.

Is there a top limit to the speed I will be able to reach on a hybrid (trek 7,5fx) compared to exerting the same effort on a road bike?

Would a road bike help me go faster?

Or do I just need to be fitter and ride more to get faster on the bike I have?

As Eddie Mercxx says, should I ride upgrades, not buy upgrades?

Do I NEED a road bike to go faster?

Colleen

[Veronica]

Is there a top limit to the speed I will be able to reach on a hybrid (trek 7,5fx) compared to exerting the same effort on a road bike? yes

Would a road bike help me go faster? yes

Or do I just need to be fitter and ride more to get faster on the bike I have? yes

As Eddie Mercxx says, should I ride upgrades, not buy upgrades? yes

Do I NEED a road bike to go faster? no

I think you need to define what you mean by going faster. Are you talking about increasing your average from 8 to 12 mph? Or 12 to 18 mph?

V.

[momof4greatkids]

My average speed now is about 14-15 mph, (ok.....13 mph with a strong headwind!). I'd like to be able to go 18-20 mph.

Colleen

[Veronica]

How far are you riding? How hilly is it?

Unless you're pretty intense about training, averaging 18 - 20 mph on a 30 to 40 mile ride is pretty fast.

It took me a year of serious training to increase my average speed from 14 - 15 mph to 15 - 16 on a 40 mile ride with 2000 - 3000 feet of climbing in it.

V.

[Triskeliongirl]

You will go faster *for the same effort* on a lighter bike, especially where climbing is concerned. That is because speed depends on your power to mass ratio. Mass is the weight of you and the bike, so if that is reduced, especially rotational weight (wheels, hubs, etc.) you will be faster. But as Veronica said getting to 18-20 mph requires mucho series training and a super light bike both. But getting from 12-15 mph to 14-17 is realistic with consistent riding and a lighter bike (average speed too depends a lot on how hilly it is where you ride).

[Veronica]

You will go faster *for the same effort* on a lighter bike, especially where climbing is concerned. That is because speed depends on your power to mass ratio.

And you have to decide how much are you willing to spend for the two or three minutes you may save by getting a lighter bike.

Here's a calculator that shows you how much faster you can be with a lighter bike.

http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

Use a ride you have some data on and plug in the weight of your bike and then do the same thing with what you think a new road bike would weigh.

V.

[Triskeliongirl]

I agree that often folks have unrealistic expectations when they move from a 20 lb bike to an 18 lb bike, or 18 to 16. BUT, moving from a 25 plus pound bike (typical hybrid) to 18-20 will make a difference. So will moving from a hybrid to a road bike, where in addition to weight savings, she may get a more effecient position (with proper fitting), a more aerodynamic postion which can cheat the wind, more hand positions, etc. I do think that someone who is averaging 14-15 mph on a hybrid is probably topped out, and will benefit from a move to a road bike.

[Veronica]

That's why I posted the link to calculator. She can play around with all the numbers and various configurations and decide how to spend her money.

I know I put out 188 watts. When I put my data into the calculator and say I am on a mountain bike with medium slick tires it would take me 5 more minutes to do my local climb.

Is five minutes on an 11 mile ride worth a couple of thousand dollars? That's something she has decide.

Also how long is she spending on the bike? Is she averaging 15 mph on a 30 minute ride? Or a 3 hour ride? That makes a difference as well.



V.

[kelownagirl]

Cool link Veronica! I don't know how many watts I put out but according to the chart, it varies between 148-198 depending on whether my hands are in the drops or not! Interesting!

How to do increase my "wattage"? Just ride more? Is it something one can improve?

[Veronica]

Last year based on the same ride I was putting out about 160. My improvement came from riding hard, medium distance rides.

V.

[Cassandra_Cain]

In the flats, by far and away, the biggest limitation is aerodynamics. Whereas on a climb, more so the steeper it gets, power to weight is the biggest limiter while aerodynamics becomes rather secondary.

I could for example, put a 25 pound plate in my backpack, and to ride at 20mph would only need to produce about 4 more watts than I do at my present weight.

Meanwhile, if I tried the same stunt on a 5% grade, to ride at 10mph, I'd need to make 25 more watts.

You can see this in practice because drafting on a climb saves you much, much less than in the flats, where you can ride with much stronger riders just by sitting in and staying out of the wind.

I think average speed in the flats is a rather vague number to use as a measure of fitness. On a climb, that you do regularly, then it can be really useful since aerodynamics & wind have a lesser effect.

Using calculators for climbs has an important limitation - when you plug in the numbers, % grade, etc - the assumption is that the climb is steady, and I've yet to see a climb of any significant length that fits such a description.

Where I do a climb locally that averages about 6% for 10+ miles, segments range from a short downhill to over 10%. So in reality, my power numbers are higher than what the calculator predicts because of the variation in terrain.

There are many, many ways of getting faster. Veronica mentioned what worked for her. My preferred method consists of 10-40 minute intervals at TT (1-hour) pace several times per week.

[alpinerabbit]

Interesting - why does low air temperature increase my calories burnt on that link?

Correlates with what I felt today after a 60 km ride at 10°C - trashed....

[TsPoet]

My average speed now is about 14-15 mph, (ok.....13 mph with a strong headwind!). I'd like to be able to go 18-20 mph.

Colleen

For reference (from someone who has both, sort of)
On my 20" front wheel bent (the recumbent equivalent to your hybrid DF), I average ~13 mph on my commute to work. On my performance bent (equivalent to an entry level road bike), I average ~17 mph on my commute to work.
Differences: aerodynamics, weight (32 lbs vs 25 lbs, bents are heavy) - that's pretty much it, I have narrow tires on both. My faster bent is also aluminum, which I think works well for me, and the other is cromoly. The weight difference is more than that, though - I carry cloths and lunch and things with me on the comfortable bike and much less on the road bike.
You should always buy a new bike when you want to! OK, my comfort bent is for sale, I've run out of room to store them all.

[Geonz]

I have averaged either 21.3 or 23.1 mph on a 30 mile ride - in a paceline - on my 7500FX. The paceline of course made me a whole lot more streamlined.

Did I miss this skimming the replies: What tires do you have? I added 2 mph, no effort, when I went to skinnier tires (tho' I did it on the bike before the trek; when I bought this one, Fritz said "of course you'll want to switch out tires." I have 25 cc tires; most of my road buddies have 23s.

The only way I could hold 18-20 is with a paceline (or a tailwind - I did average 17.9 on the RAIN ride but the 8 mph breeze helped :)) unless it was prestty short and sweet.

[roguedog]

cool link! thanks v

[momof4greatkids]

...thank you for sharing your advice. My tires are 32cc. A good ride for me is 42 miles at 14.8 mph, with some small hills, no big grades. I really don't do much climbing here in Ohio, it's more like little rollers.

That link is amazing! I have so much to learn, gotta admit a lot of those variables go right over my head.

Geonz, my ambition is to do RAIN, but I cannot see myself averaging 17.9 on my bike, but your story gives me hope!

Colleen

[Veronica]

Using calculators for climbs has an important limitation - when you plug in the numbers, % grade, etc - the assumption is that the climb is steady, and I've yet to see a climb of any significant length that fits such a description.



You need to come to the Bay Area then. :)

http://tandemhearts.com/coppermine/albums/wpw-20061119/normal_Diablo_HR_Data_9-24.jpg

This is a fairly steady grade. There is one spot around 2,000 feet where it kicks up to 9%. The last tenth of a mile is 17%. Otherwise it's fairly steady 5 to 6 % for 11 miles.

V.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

...thank you for sharing your advice. My tires are 32cc. A good ride for me is 42 miles at 14.8 mph, with some small hills, no big grades. I really don't do much climbing here in Ohio, it's more like little rollers.


Wow, that's fast if you ask me!
I have 700c x 38c tires - really WIDE, I know, but I started with them on purpose when I started riding 5 months ago- I was scared to death of skidding on the gravely roads we ride here. Was scared of traffic too. Many small but steep hills here, and not many flat stretches of more than a mile or so. Also, my lugged steel bike is somewhat heavy- 27 lbs fully loaded. With all this, I tend to average only 9.5 mph! :o Pathetic, I know.

But I am over my skidding fears at this point after 5 months of riding now...so I am about to switch to 700 x 27c tires. I suspect that's going to make a big difference for me, going from 38 to 27 width. Lately I've actually been feeling my tires were sort of gluing me to the road! :eek: But we do lots of very rough gravel wooded backroads, so I don't want to go thinner than the 27's.

I think you are FAST, girl!

[Kano]

That calculator is interesting!

According to it, I think I need to lose 40-some pounds of me to equal the change I'd make by losing about fifteen pounds of bike.

Now, losing 40 pounds of me is a really good idea, since the combination of losing some of me and losing some bike weight is HUGE!

Karen in Boise

[Geonz]

If you go to skinnier tires, you'll go faster for cheap.

However, it sounds like you've made a sort of psychological transition... you want to be a roadie :)

Ride some. See how they feel. (I have not found one that doesn't make me irritable after 30 miles - maybe I have some "core muscle" issues so I don't do the aerobic position well ??... we'll see what spring-semester-yoga can do for me. Sitting poses give me *exactly* the same bad mood...)

[mimitabby]

...thank you for sharing your advice. My tires are 32cc. A good ride for me is 42 miles at 14.8 mph, with some small hills, no big grades. I really don't do much climbing here in Ohio, it's more like little rollers.

That link is amazing! I have so much to learn, gotta admit a lot of those variables go right over my head.

Geonz, my ambition is to do RAIN, but I cannot see myself averaging 17.9 on my bike, but your story gives me hope!

Colleen

Colleen
you can probably put narrower tires on your bike. Take it to a bike shop and ask. That will improve your speed a little without your having to spend a fortune.

[Geonz]

...thank you for sharing your advice. My tires are 32cc. A good ride for me is 42 miles at 14.8 mph, with some small hills, no big grades. I really don't do much climbing here in Ohio, it's more like little rollers.

That link is amazing! I have so much to learn, gotta admit a lot of those variables go right over my head.

Geonz, my ambition is to do RAIN, but I cannot see myself averaging 17.9 on my bike, but your story gives me hope!

Colleen

As weather goddess, I brought a tailwind. Since it's a one-way ride, it helped a lot :)

Is that 14.8 under your own power or in a group? I ended up linking up with folks for big chunks of RAIN , and of course a paceline sticks another 2 or 3 mph onto your speed. I'm fortunate in that we have a Tuesday Tour that goes long miles at 14-15... and I learned how to do the paceline thing at those speeds, with just a few people in sort of a "low-key" way before I ever got on speedier ones.

[DirtDiva]

Riding in a group is kewl - On my Tuesday night rides I go about 5km/h (3mph) faster for the same amount of effort as riding solo. :D (Until the speed goes over 35km/h - then my legs fall off. :o)

[momof4greatkids]

As weather goddess, I brought a tailwind. Since it's a one-way ride, it helped a lot :)

Is that 14.8 under your own power or in a group? I ended up linking up with folks for big chunks of RAIN , and of course a paceline sticks another 2 or 3 mph onto your speed. I'm fortunate in that we have a Tuesday Tour that goes long miles at 14-15... and I learned how to do the paceline thing at those speeds, with just a few people in sort of a "low-key" way before I ever got on speedier ones.

Let me know please when you plan to ride it next and tell me so I can benefit from your tail-wind wielding powers also! If it's a one way ride, how do you get back to the start?

That 14.8 is by myself. I'd like to ride with others, I'm just not sure how to hook up. Seems like all the folks I see in pacelines and groups all have road bikes and are going much faster than lonely ole' me on my hybrid.

Colleen

[momof4greatkids]

Colleen
you can probably put narrower tires on your bike. Take it to a bike shop and ask. That will improve your speed a little without your having to spend a fortune.

This sounds like a very logical and fiscally responsible first step ;) I really don't want to spend a lot of money right now, so skinnier tires could be just the ticket.

Colleen

[momof4greatkids]

Wow, that's fast if you ask me!
I have 700c x 38c tires - really WIDE, I know, but I started with them on purpose when I started riding 5 months ago- I was scared to death of skidding on the gravely roads we ride here. Was scared of traffic too. Many small but steep hills here, and not many flat stretches of more than a mile or so. Also, my lugged steel bike is somewhat heavy- 27 lbs fully loaded. With all this, I tend to average only 9.5 mph! :o Pathetic, I know.

But I am over my skidding fears at this point after 5 months of riding now...so I am about to switch to 700 x 27c tires. I suspect that's going to make a big difference for me, going from 38 to 27 width. Lately I've actually been feeling my tires were sort of gluing me to the road! :eek: But we do lots of very rough gravel wooded backroads, so I don't want to go thinner than the 27's.

I think you are FAST, girl!

Sometimes I think I am doing fine until a group of very fit and handsome and MUCH younger men fly by me on their bikes :p That's when I think, I gotta get faster!

I think you are doing very fine especially w/the terrain. You will probably feel like you are being pushed by angels when you go to the skinny tires! I know that's how I felt when I switched from my mtn bike to the hybrid. I remember thinking, this feels effortless!

I'm in a rural area, so roads are not as daunting. But now that it's more wintery and getting dark so early, I like to stick to the trail. I'm 99% of the time riding alone, so I always try to be very cautious.

Colleen

[Geonz]

They're going fast ***because*** they're all riding together.

Pacelines are truly an animal of their own, wiht their own physics *and* psychology. It is most certainly more than a question of being able to go fast. I'd highly, highly recommend finding somebody to help you learn drafting skills (though perhaps you're braver than I ;-)). It really helped me to be able to practice with one or two people and ask questions. Most of those 'young guy' pacelines are going too fast to allow for questions, and mistakes can land people in hospital.

Get the tires - you'll ***love it*** ;) :) :)

[Cassandra_Cain]

You can save an enormous amount of energy while drafting. Most especially the further back you are in the line.

Case in point...

This past weekend I was riding in the number 4 slot of a paceline. While I was putting out 210 watts, the guy who was pulling was hitting 300 w. That is not a small difference by any stretch.

Most things I've read suggest that depending on what position you ride within the paceline, you can save as much as 35%.

[momof4greatkids]

They're going fast ***because*** they're all riding together.

Pacelines are truly an animal of their own, wiht their own physics *and* psychology. It is most certainly more than a question of being able to go fast. I'd highly, highly recommend finding somebody to help you learn drafting skills (though perhaps you're braver than I ;-)). It really helped me to be able to practice with one or two people and ask questions. Most of those 'young guy' pacelines are going too fast to allow for questions, and mistakes can land people in hospital.

Get the tires - you'll ***love it*** ;) :) :)

How much will a new set of tires cost, on average? This might be a good thing to put on my Christmas wish list. Do I need new wheels, or just the tires? What does the "c" stand for in the measurement, ie, 700 x 32 c ?

Am I asking too many "noob" questions? :)

Thank you!

Colleen

[Triskeliongirl]

32 c means your tires are 32 mm wide. You shouldn't need new wheels just new tires, but depending on your rim its not clear how narrow you can go. The best is to bring your bike to a LBS and ask. 32 mm is 1 1/4", 28mm is 1 1/8", 25 mm is 1", 23 mm is ~3/4" for comparison sake. You also want to get a tire that is smooth, light and goes to high pressure. Tires can cost anywhere from $15 to $60 each depending on how fancy they are.

[CR400]

Well I'm from a flat part of Ohio as well. But if you are close to the PA line there is some great climbing some grades 14% and a little better.

Anyway as far as getting faster without changing your bike try riding in bigger gears and trying to maintain the 14mph pace for a while (two rides a week). Then when you return to the smaller gears you are used to it will seem like you are flying with less effort. Because you have built more muscle mass. Quickest way to gain watts is to loose weight so you don't have to pedal as hard or gain muscle so you can pedal higher watts without noticing a difference.

[jamom]

I've been reading this thread and thinking about something my sister, who's ridden for many years, told me. If you want to go faster, ride with guys-they'll really push you. I have to admit, when I ride with my hubby, I go faster!!:D

[CR400]

It is true that riding with guys will push you and make you faster. Its worked for me. However, it can be down right depressing and discouraging if the men you are trying to ride with are significantly faster. I have a friend I ride with and on his "recovery" days he still wants to average between 18-19mph. Which for quite a few women that is still fast (oh we usually ride side by side so no draft, you pull yourself). On his high intesity days I stay with him for the first five minuets, then I see him again at the end of the ride after I pull in 15min to 30min behind him. The scary part is he isn't even the fastest in the group.

[Kano]

I've been reading this thread and thinking about something my sister, who's ridden for many years, told me. If you want to go faster, ride with guys-they'll really push you. I have to admit, when I ride with my hubby, I go faster!!:D

I wonder if that's cuz when they ride, they just ride. When I ride, I ride, but I also enjoy the scenery, which does slow me down some, I know!

Karen in Boise

[RoadRaven]

Well... I'm really just endorsing what others have said here...

Yes, a road bike is made for going fast on roads... just look at most club racers as well as all (to my knowledge) semi-pro and pro riders - they do not race on hybrids.

However, yes... you can go faster on a hybrid or on a mountain bike and the biggest, quickest and cheapest change you can make to your current bike is to put skinny road tyres/slicks on.

If you are not riding with others, you could also look at getting aero bars on your bike.

At our club we do have riders in the lower grades that race on hybrids or on mountain bikes. But ultimately as people want to go faster they move to road bikes... they are lighter, more responsive and more aerodynamic...

It depends on how fast you want to go and where/whom you ride with... and these goals will likely change as you ride more... just adapt your goals to what you are enjoying and thinking you might try.

I can't answer any questions about costs, sorry... wrong country to advise you... but it should not be huge and def worth it

[RoadRaven]

I've been reading this thread and thinking about something my sister, who's ridden for many years, told me. If you want to go faster, ride with guys-they'll really push you. I have to admit, when I ride with my hubby, I go faster!!:D


Yup - they will... men tend to ride faster because they tend to be stronger, therefore you can use them to "motor-pace" yourself and increase your endurance and speed (its also a psychological boost because you think - gee, I CAN ride that fast... so it lifts your performance when you ride without them).

Riding with anyone else tends to lift my performance - I just push myself a little bit more... the advantage of riding with my partner is that he is waaaay better and more experienced than me and will pace himself to optimise my training...

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Well, I feel I must report my own experience with thinner tires, just to be on the record...
I am sure that it is probably true for many of you that you gain speed when you put on skinnier tires. But oddly, it did not seem to make a difference for me.

I went from 700c x 38cm tires on my road bike to 700 x 28cm tires (with smoother tread as well). That's quite a difference to jump in tire width.
Although it "felt" a bit quicker and more responsive on turning, etc,...according to my bike computer and my wristwatch my usual 21 mile ride did NOT get any shorter at all, time-wise. I re-checked the time about four different times under varied conditions. Interesting!
Your mileage may vary (ha ha)....

[Triskeliongirl]

Well, I feel I must report my own experience with thinner tires, just to be on the record...
I am sure that it is probably true for many of you that you gain speed when you put on skinnier tires. But oddly, it did not seem to make a difference for me....

I am curious, did you try to go faster, meaning did you ride you bike with both sets of tires, each time trying to go as fast as you could (i.e. sort of like a personal time trial)? Does your route have hills, where rotating weight will make a difference? I notice a huge difference in speed when I ride my touring tires (32c) vs racing slicks (23c), but I imagine if you are out riding to ride, you may just notice that it was easier to push the lighter tire, and rather than taking advantage of that to go fast, kept at your usual comfortable pace.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I am curious, did you try to go faster, meaning did you ride you bike with both sets of tires, each time trying to go as fast as you could (i.e. sort of like a personal time trial)? Does your route have hills, where rotating weight will make a difference? I notice a huge difference in speed when I ride my touring tires (32c) vs racing slicks (23c), but I imagine if you are out riding to ride, you may just notice that it was easier to push the lighter tire, and rather than taking advantage of that to go fast, kept at your usual comfortable pace.

Each time I was "timing" either tires I was going at a pace where I was pushing myself moderately- trying to always keep pedaling rather than coasting, pushing my legs a bit but not killing myself either. I don't "think" I lagged because of the lighter tires being easier to push- I was really looking forward to cutting some time off my ride and thus I was pedaling with some enthusiasm. Yes, my route has lots of rolling hills and several short very steep hills- actually not much flat riding around here at all. ....but what do you mean by "where rotating weight will make a difference"? -can you explain?
I did have a cold at one point and am still slightly feeling the residual effects, but my first skinny-tire timing was right before that hit. I also note that the weather has been slightly breezier overall than before I changed the tires- it coming into winter and all...
It's frustrating to work against changing weather conditions in trying to make accurate comparisons. But you'd think at least ONE of my rides since changing tires would be faster than on my old fat tires! :(

[Triskeliongirl]

....but what do you mean by "where rotating weight will make a difference"? -can you explain? :(

Rotating weight means weight that is related to movement, i.e. wheels, tires, crank set, pedals. Cutting rotating weight increases speed even more than non-rotating weight, i.e. the frame, handlebars, etc., which is why it is often recommended that folks with hybrids try putting lighter skinnier tires on their bikes in an effort to improve speed. That is why some folks spend so much money on super light wheels for their racing bikes. In general, when you decrease tire width you also decrease tire weight (less rubber unless you purchased an unusually heavy 28c tire), which is why the laws of physics say your new tires should be faster. BUT, maybe you are comparing apples and oranges, i.e. fall rides to winter ones. I know my speed is slower on a cold day, or on a day I am a bit under the weather than on a nice sunny day. So, maybe you need to give your new tires some time.

[RoadRaven]

Hi... me again

Lise... technically speaking 28cm tyres are still "fats".

When you can, get some 23cm tyres (like Triske also describes) which are racing slicks. You can get several tread types, true "slicks" are treachorous on a wet down-hill or heavily cornered ride, but they are awesome in a TT...

If you wanna do a quick check on what will be fastest, check out what the pros choose - def not 28cm...

So, when you can, get some 23cm slicks and make another comparison
Enjoy your experimenting
:)


EDIT: Oh, and I meant to also add that over a shorter distance you may only be talking seconds difference... over a moderate distance, perhaps a minute or two... it depends how you ride... as well as all the other variables as you have mentioned - weather, temperature, time of the month, health, hydration, nutrition etc tec

The best way to "test" your time is over a set course or courses as you have. I have a flat out and back 15km course, a couple of short steep hill courses, and a rolling to flat course with a consistent wind.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

[COLOR="DarkOrchid"]Hi... me again

Lise... technically speaking 28cm tyres are still "fats".

When you can, get some 23cm tyres (like Triske also describes) which are racing slicks. You can get several tread types, true "slicks" are treachorous on a wet down-hill or heavily cornered ride, but they are awesome in a TT...

If you wanna do a quick check on what will be fastest, check out what the pros choose - def not 28cm...

So, when you can, get some 23cm slicks and make another comparison
Enjoy your experimenting
:)

Hey I appreciate your input!! You make some good points about comparing under various conditions. (I assume you meant Lisa, not Lise)
I can't put 23's on my bike because DH and I ride a LOT of back dirt and gravel farm roads- one of our favorite things to do! Actually, we specifically got our Rivendell road bikes BECAUSE they have clearance for wider tires. You would be horrified to see some of the sharp stoney jagged roads we ride- cut rocks sticking up everywhere like daggers on a lunar landscape! :eek: So many you can't avoid them all. The "pros" on their 23's would have been left far behind, fixing their flats all day! ;) But my new 28cm Kevlar tires passed the test of fire yesterday down one murderously rocky road. DH and I decided that any skinnier than 28's and we would start having flats too much. I just feel happy to have gone from 38cm to 28cm- that's a BIG jump for me!

I do think that perhaps the breeze and my cold and other variations might have affected my time on the new tires- there always seems to be "something" working against me. And you're right- a 21 mile ride (which is my daily standard for timing) might only show a difference of a couple of minutes on a good day.
I guess time will tell. Thank you for your helpful ideas!

[DebW]

Rotating weight means weight that is related to movement, i.e. wheels, tires, crank set, pedals.

To be more specific, rotating weight is the product of mass and distance from the center of rotation. On a wheel, the axle is not rotating mass. The hub flanges are, but they are so close to the center of rotation that they have little rotating weight. Likewise the cassette. The rim and tire constitute most of the rotating weight. A crank and pedals do rotate, but the radius is not very large.

For you folks who are taking or have taken calculus, try integrating r*M over a crankset (assume uniform density from r=0 to r=R) or over a wheel (assume all weight is either in the hub (r=~0) or in the rim r=~R). This exercise may make you want to use a compact crankset and 650C wheels (if rotating weight were the only concern). I'm getting an r-cubed dependence in the crankset and an r-squared dependence in the wheel. Can anyone confirm or deny my solution of the simplified problem?

[Grog]

May I just volunteer...

isn't that 23mm???

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

May I just volunteer...

isn't that 23mm???

I guess they are, but my Pasela tires are listed as "23c" or "28c" width so I guess I tend to read it as cm's which is probably incorrect:
http://www.panaracer.com/eng/products/index_ur.html
Surely they mean mm in any case! :rolleyes:

[CR400]

Ok, I kind of feel your pain now. I have started my off season training about a month ago and started riding a mountain bike on the road instead of my road bike. Boy have I slowed down. I can hit 20 to 21mph for a few seconds to about 3 minuets at best but after that I slow down, if I want to or not. So I'd work on getting much thinner tires and less tread on them. Also a more aerodynamic position helps the most. I go faster even on the moutain bike if I get closer to the handlebar and lower my profile.

[lauraelmore1033]

Boy, this whole getting hybrids to go faster issue has been driving me crazy! I know that a chunky person on a chunky bike will quite naturally go slower than a sleek person on a sleek bike, and I had been quite contented to average about 12.5 mph riding at a more or less comfortable pace with hubby snapping at the heels a bit, but the discontent of the OP with an average speed of 14 mph got me thinking (and discontented too)...

well, to cut a long story short, I had been trying everything in my power (without going to skinny tires) to even touch an AVERAGE speed of 14 mph; flatter course, shorter distance, bigger gears, greater effort, and the best I could do was 13.33 mph over 20 miles of the flattest trail in the state. And that was giving it all I had. I was so wiped out after my last attempt I felt my driving skills were a bit impared as I navagated home in the car. Hubby was alarmed. I've been told just to drop the issue and my knees have warned me not to try that again. So I'll just have to be satisfied with the knowledge that I'm doing the best that I can as I watch the parade of sleek behinds on sleek bikes cruising effortlessly past me and disappearing in the far distance ahead.:p Humph!

[Geonz]

Ah, but also KNOW in your smug heart that you are getting STRONGER than they are 'cause you have to work harder :) :) :)

[lauraelmore1033]

yeah, I suppose it is nice being freakishly strong, but it would be so COOL to blow past people effortlessly...

[Geonz]

Ha! Ha! Ha! Have they got you fooled:D :D :D

It looks effortless for four seconds... but did you ever notice how often the speed difference between you and a "blow-byer" dropped drastically once s/he was ahead of you?

Okay, here's what you do with your hybrid: knock a little off the tire inflation (but watch for potholes - you're asking for pinch flats), maladjust the brakes so they drag **just** a little, put a couple of gallons of water somewhere on the bike, and go find a headwind.

Ride with that bad boy for three weeks. Then pump up the tires all the way, adjust the brakes, take the water off... you'll blow by lots of people :-)

[lauraelmore1033]

I have noticed, on occasion, that some of the riders that "blow by" do seem to need a rest stop a short distance ahead. But not very many (not the ones with the reeeealy sleek behinds on the reeeealy sleek bikes).

[Trekhawk]

I have noticed, on occasion, that some of the riders that "blow by" do seem to need a rest stop a short distance ahead. But not very many (not the ones with the reeeealy sleek behinds on the reeeealy sleek bikes).

Well at least it is sleek behinds on sleek bikes. The last weeks issue of Road Bike Rider made me laugh and laugh. One of the guys said he got passed on his commute by a guy in jeans riding a dirty, heavy and old Walmart bike and drinking a beer. See it happens to us all.:D

[lauraelmore1033]

too funny:D . Does remind me of the time my husband and I were breezily passed by a girl wearing big straw flip flops who carried an oversized tote bag slung over one shoulder. not as bad as a guy drinking a beer, though...

[RoadRaven]

May I just volunteer... isn't that 23mm???


I guess they are, but my Pasela tires are listed as "23c" or "28c" width so I guess I tend to read it as cm's which is probably incorrect. Surely they mean mm in any case! :rolleyes:

Just jumping back a page or two...

Yup... a bit of research (talking with other cyclists and measuring tyres)... of course it is mm... why they say "c" instead of "mm" though, I have no idea...

[Toni]

Okay, here's what you do with your hybrid: knock a little off the tire inflation (but watch for potholes - you're asking for pinch flats), maladjust the brakes so they drag **just** a little, put a couple of gallons of water somewhere on the bike, and go find a headwind.

Ride with that bad boy for three weeks. Then pump up the tires all the way, adjust the brakes, take the water off... you'll blow by lots of people :-)

I'm gonna try this!!!!!:D

[KSH]

I have noticed, on occasion, that some of the riders that "blow by" do seem to need a rest stop a short distance ahead. But not very many (not the ones with the reeeealy sleek behinds on the reeeealy sleek bikes).

Well, I think I resemble that comment... ;)

My boyfriend and I did this 60 mile bike route at a rally. He would go as fast as he could... I would do the best I could to keep up.

There was this one guy on a hybrid type of bike, with regular pedals. He must have been around 60 pounds overweight, and was just casually riding along.

We would stop at the rest stop... the guy on the hybrid would cruise by enjoying the day. We would take off again on our sleek bikes... fly by him... stop at the next rest stop... and the guy would go cruising by, never stopping.

Long and steady "wins" the race. :D

(And no, I'm not talking about my boyfriend and I!)

[Geonz]

You cannot tell that the person on the clunker bike might simply be SUper Biker but not in costume. They don't wear spandex *everywhere,* after all :)

And I'm just heading out for a few more "slow, steady" miles 'cause I'm going to keep ahead of "gotta go, gotta go, gotta go" Howard from bikejournal even if he *does* manage to come back and knock off another 20mph century. He's only got 5 days including this one to try & catch me :) :) :)

[lauraelmore1033]

I've been trying to figure out why I'm getting hung up on the numbers. It's not like I'm THAT competitive a person. It isn't as if I am perceiving an actual "race" going on (whether "slow and steady" wins it or not). I do always tend to get hung up on the numbers whenever they are involved in anything ( grades, weight, times,speeds, calories etc...) and it never gets me anywhere. My husband has pointed out that "the numbers" as far as cycling goes, are meaningless since there are sooo many variables. I know that is true, but I guess my real interest is in getting fast enough to join a group. I never can seem to work up the courage to go on any of the group rides I see posted for various cycling clubs in my area. Most of them are "too fast" for me. although there are also many that aren't, I still don't go. I don't know if getting faster would remedy that anyway.

[KayTee]

laureal, your DH is right about all the variables but I agree with you that some attention to numbers helps you measure milestones and set goals and objectives, which IMO aren't bad things. You should be commended for wanting to improve, after all. Do think about joining group rides, though. In my own experience nothing will help you improve more in speed, endurance, confidence and knowledge like learning to ride safely with a compatible group. Ask around the lbs's and local recreational clubs to see if there are group rides with variable paces and distances and that welcome newbies. For example, our local rec club has a year-round Saturday road ride that attracts everything from occasional riders on mtbs and hybrids to hardcore road racers. Each week the rotating volunteer ride leaders try to match up newbies (experienced or not) with compatible riding companions or groups (if they're experienced enough to ride in groups). The basic route is a flattish 20 miles with hilly extensions up to 100. Something for everyone. It's a good way to meet people and learn, and if you can find a ride like that, I know you'll enjoy riding more, and you will get faster - if that's what you want to do. Try it just a couple of times - and good luck!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I keep reading about everyone riding averages of like 13-18 mph everywhere. It's been making me paranoid! I am almost ashamed to confess that my normal average on 20-40 mile rides here where I live seems to be always between 9.2 and 9.7 mph. :o :o :o (can you even believe that??)
I am NOT just crawling along like a turtle, believe me, I pedal strongly and steadily (but without killing myself). My steel road bike is 29 pounds fully loaded. I am average weight and height.
I brought this up with my DH who rides with me and he is a pretty strong tall slim rider. He has the same type bike. He slows down a little for me most of the time, but insists I am not too slow for him. I brought up this issue of our average speed with him, and he immediately told me that our low average speed was because of all the hills we have on virtually all our routes. He grew up in Iowa and Illinois, and he said that if we lived there we would be MUCH faster. :rolleyes:

I thought about that. I realized that only about 1/4 of any one of our rides consist of flat terrain- the other 3/4 is made up of hills, and more hills. Some rolling and long, some steep. Many require granny gear and 2mph climbing. Sure, we'll hit a blazing 35mph on a big downhill once and a while, but going back up that same hill takes a LONG time at 3-4mph and lots of leg work. When I'm on flat terrain I notice my speed is typically around 14-20mph- but I am seldom on flat roads.
So... I decided that I am NOT going to be concerned about my LOW average speed anymore. :) I'll keep an eye on it only to evaluate how much stronger I am getting on a given route- but I refuse to feel inwardly ashamed about it anymore!! :D :D I free myself from my self-imposed average speed shackles! :D

P.S. I just switched to a larger waxed canvas saddle bag which now adds probably another half pound to my bike! I better quit eating this xmas box of chocolate covered cherries...

[lauraelmore1033]

Lisa,
That's an example of how the number of variables make many of the numbers we all talk about somewhat meaningless. When I talk about achieving an average mph of 12-13, it's on very flat, very smooth trails. I'm not likely to mention that when I ride on the roads around my house, which are mostly rolling hills, my average speed is only 9.5-10 mph:o.(and that's if I'm really pushing it)

[Veronica]

Yep, the only person you should compare yourself to is YOU - unless you want to race I guess.

If numbers are really important to you, you might want to invest in a Polar HRM with the computer download. I always get a thrill out of looking at how far I've come. Unfortunately all that was on my stolen laptop. But now I'm free to embellish my progress. :D

V.

[SadieKate]

From the 11/9/06 issue of www.roadbikerider.com


1. Weekly Dispatch o^o o^o o^o o^o o^o o^o

We heard the buzz about a surprising new tire test in Bicycle Quarterly, a nifty magazine published in Seattle and edited by Jan Heine. The name was Vintage Bicycle Quarterly until recently, but "vintage" has been axed because it implied the mag was about old, collectible bikes and equipment.

Well, plenty of pages are devoted to arcane and interesting gear, history and randonneur-style riding, but Bicycle Quarterly also publishes cutting-edge material. The tire test is testimony, appearing in the Autumn 2006 issue.

Heine gave RBR permission to summarize several major findings. Interestingly, they confirm lots of what Uncle Al has been ranting about for years regarding tire width and inflation pressure.

Some test conclusions will be particularly enlightening if you're riding on narrow, high-pressure clinchers seeking more speed via lower rolling resistance. Your skinny tires may not be as fast as you think.

For the full eight-page report on tire performance, order the Vol. 5 No. 1 issue from http://www.bicyclequarterly.com. The test included nine 700C tires, seven 650B tires and two tubulars. The protocol and results were reviewed by industry experts. These are eight findings:

---With roughly the same power output, the rider's speed can vary by as much as 20% depending on tire choice. For example, the rider on the fastest tire [in this roll-down test] moved down the road at approximately 16.4 mph (26.2 kph) while the same rider on the slowest tire went approximately 13.6 mph (21.7 kph).

---Many longtime riders believe tires with a cotton casing are faster than modern casings made from nylon. Testing seems to confirm this. The best-performing tire in the test, the Deda Tre Giro d'Italia 700x23C (actual width 24.5 mm), has a cotton casing.

---Tire pressure has only a small effect on the rolling resistance of most tires. Narrow 23-mm tires seem to roll fastest at pressures of 105 psi (7.2 bar) or more. However, running these tires at 85 psi (5.8 bar) for improved comfort increased the test times only 2%. Wider 28-mm tires are as fast at 85 psi as they are at higher pressures.

---Tubular tires perform worse at very high pressure. At 130 psi (9 bar), the narrow Clement Criterium rolled slower than it did at a more comfortable 105 psi. The wider Clement Campione del Mundo rolled slightly faster at 85 psi than at 105 psi.

---Wide tires do not roll slower at lower pressures. In fact, testing indicated that a wide tire at lower pressures rolls faster than a narrow tire at high pressures, if all other factors remain the same. Even narrow tires can be ridden at comfortable pressures with only very small concessions to performance.

---Tires rolled slightly slower with Michelin's relatively thick latex tubes than with butyl tubes. Thinner latex tubes, like used in tubular tires, may offer better performance, but when used in clinchers they are more prone to punctures caused by friction between tire and tube. Latex tubes do improve comfort.

---Perhaps the most important result of the test is that tire pressure does not significantly affect rolling resistance. Wide tires in particular do not need high pressures to roll fast. But because many current wide tires are designed to handle high pressure, they have strong casings that lack suppleness. This results in higher rolling resistance than necessary.

---The test's findings point to a new direction for performance bicycles. For most cyclists, wide, supple tires at low pressures offer more speed, better comfort, increased versatility and improved safety than today's narrow high-pressure tires. However, this type of wide, fast tire currently is not available. Hopefully, these test results will help persuade manufacturers to produce them.

[SadieKate]

I think average speed in the flats is a rather vague number to use as a measure of fitness. On a climb, that you do regularly, then it can be really useful since aerodynamics & wind have a lesser effect. Wow, I'm just muddling through this thread. Since all I have is flat roads to ride, my shorter ride times over a season and in flat time trails don't mean anything? The same 33 mile ride ridden over the years has gone from a 2.5 hour effort to a fairly consistent 2 hours. Why wouldn't this be a measure of my fitness?


Using calculators for climbs has an important limitation - when you plug in the numbers, % grade, etc - the assumption is that the climb is steady, and I've yet to see a climb of any significant length that fits such a description. The Sierras and the Cascades are full of long, steady climbs.

[maillotpois]

The Sierras and the Cascades are full of long, steady climbs.

yup. monitor pass 5 - 7 miles (depending on which side you do), ebbets 4 - 8 miles and carson from turtle rock about 12 miles. I think there's some sustained climbing to be found here in the sierras.

plenty of 3 - 6 mile climbs we can do routinely as well.

[SadieKate]

Iron Mtn -- 20 miles with only a couple very short dips.

[maillotpois]

who you callin' a "short dip"?? I am significantly taller than you, I'll remind you...

[jobob]

Hey, you girls have fun, and send me postcards.

I just hope to make it up that steenkin' Sierra Road this coming year.

[SadieKate]

Bubba's three rules to riding faster:
1) Ride downhill
2) Ride downwind
3) Ride with someone slower than you

He's accepting donations in compensation for these words of wisdom.


Hey, you girls have fun, and send me postcards.

I just hope to make it up that steenkin' Sierra Road this coming year.Shorter of the two dips speaking: When do I get to ride that "steenkin' Sierra Road"?

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

"Short dip"....too funny!!!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Well after reading that tire test article maybe it explains why I wasn't suddenly faster when I changed from my 700x38 to 700x28's.... maybe it's not so much of a speed inducer, especially for someone who rides few flats roads.

And Lauraelmore- You make me feel a LOT better when you say: "When I talk about achieving an average mph of 12-13, it's on very flat, very smooth trails. I'm not likely to mention that when I ride on the roads around my house, which are mostly rolling hills, my average speed is only 9.5-10 mph.(and that's if I'm really pushing it)". :)

[lauraelmore1033]

glad to be of service, Ma'am:) .

[RoadRaven]

There was this one guy on a hybrid type of bike, with regular pedals. He must have been around 60 pounds overweight, and was just casually riding along.
We would stop at the rest stop... the guy on the hybrid would cruise by enjoying the day. We would take off again on our sleek bikes... fly by him... stop at the next rest stop... and the guy would go cruising by, never stopping.


See... I can't ride like you and BF did on this ride... I don't stop... the longest ride I have ever done is 83km (51miles) and I didn't stop although my partner and sons stopped for a stretch (I think riding as slow as me when they are with me hurts them is not so comfortable for them).
I prefer to keep going and stretch on the bike.

My style of riding doesn't suit fast bursts and rests... probably why I suck in road races, but do ok in time trials.

[RoadRaven]

I keep reading about everyone riding averages of like 13-18 mph everywhere. It's been making me paranoid! I am almost ashamed to confess that my normal average on 20-40 mile rides here where I live seems to be always between 9.2 and 9.7 mph. :o :o :o (can you even believe that??)

I thought about that. I realized that only about 1/4 of any one of our rides consist of flat terrain- the other 3/4 is made up of hills, and more hills. Some rolling and long, some steep. Many require granny gear and 2mph climbing. Sure, we'll hit a blazing 35mph on a big downhill once and a while, but going back up that same hill takes a LONG time at 3-4mph and lots of leg work. When I'm on flat terrain I notice my speed is typically around 14-20mph- but I am seldom on flat roads.
So... I decided that I am NOT going to be concerned about my LOW average speed anymore. :) I'll keep an eye on it only to evaluate how much stronger I am getting on a given route- but I refuse to feel inwardly ashamed about it anymore!! :D :D I free myself from my self-imposed average speed shackles! :D


Apart from all the extra weight you carry on your bike that I dont (my road bike is an EMC2 Femetap... only a seat bag as an extra)... you should not, as you say on in the post aftfer this one I am quoting you on, get hung up on your speed.

One of my two motivating goals in cycling is to race... and to be reasonable at it in my grade/category.

But most of my training rides are between 22-28km averages (13-17mph average). This is the way training should be - not at the same intensity that you are aiming for your topw speed/time to be on a ride you are aiming for.

My racing average is, at the moment (cause I hope to get faster) is 29-32km per hour (18-20miles).

When I look on bikejournal, my overall average (training and racing) is about 25km I think...

Glad you are not stressing about it. Non-elite cyclists who say their overall average is 30km+ are probably exagerrating and I would tend not to believe them.

My partner and eldest son are both in the top grade in our club, both rack up at least 300km a week in training and although their race average is usually between 42-44kph (26-27miles) they usually train at around 30kph, and sometimes they ride so "slow" they get an approx 25kph average.

Average speeds are relative things and need to consider so many variables as has been said. Measure yourself against yourself and your own goals. measuring yourself against others is interesting, but not always meaningful or useful.

[KSH]

See... I can't ride like you and BF did on this ride... I don't stop... the longest ride I have ever done is 83km (51miles) and I didn't stop although my partner and sons stopped for a stretch (I think riding as slow as me when they are with me hurts them is not so comfortable for them).
I prefer to keep going and stretch on the bike.

My style of riding doesn't suit fast bursts and rests... probably why I suck in road races, but do ok in time trials.

OK, well, I wish I could ride and NOT STOP!

My trouble is that I can't keep a constant tempo pace of a 14-16 mph average. I need to learn how to ride at a constant rate of speed, for a good 50 miles without a rest stop.

Unfortunately, riding with my cycling club, my body has gotten use to resting every 20 miles. Not really great training if one wants to do a Half Ironman or Ironman someday.

[RoadRaven]

The same 33 mile ride ridden over the years has gone from a 2.5 hour effort to a fairly consistent 2 hours. Why wouldn't this be a measure of my fitness?


It is the perfect measure of your fitness.

The same course, in similar conditions, repeated at intervals over the year (or measured at intervals over the year if you ride it often).

Half an hour is excellent improvement! :)

[SadieKate]

Thanks, I know it is. I was being a bit sarcastic at the statement that average speed on flat ground isn't useful.

[jobob]

You? Sarcastic?

nahhhhhhh ... :D

Geeze you'd think my 2000th post would be something erudite and worthwhile to befit the occasion.
nahhhhh ....

[indysteel]

Since we're on this topic, I'd like to bring up my current speed issue. I got my road bike at the end of July. By September, I was averaging between 16 and 17 miles per hour for most rides, assuming that it wasn't too windy and/or the route wasn't too hilly. Now that the weather has taken a turn for the cold, my average rides have gotten slower. I managed an average of about 16.3 the other day but the winds were calm. I dress for the weather and don't feel overly cold once I'm warmed up, and I certainly feel like I'm working hard. Is my slower pace just a function of the cold, the density of colder air, and how much harder my "engine" has to work in the cold?

[KayTee]

Indy, it's the cold weather. Our bodies have to work harder just to keep us warm, let alone pedaling hard. I, too, ride way slower in the cold.

[SadieKate]

I find that it takes much longer to warm up. I don't feel cold but my legs can feel like lead for twice as long as a normal warm-up.

[indysteel]

I'm glad it's not just me. I think my perception of what is and isn't a windy day has really changed, too, this winter. In the summer, I'd think it was windy if there was even a slight breeze. What a laugh! I would pay top dollar for a day like that now when the wind nearly knocks me down most rides.

Of course, slow or not, I'm very grateful that the weather's been so nice and that I'm remained healthy this winter. There's only been one weekend that I couldn't ride at all and that was a bit by choice (I decided to beat myself up in a 2.5 hour yoga class instead). I might not get a ride in this weekend either with rain/snow predicted but I'm taking tomorrow off and the skies look clear. At the end of the day, I'd rather be slow than grounded.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

At least where I live, there has been definitely more wind overall once Autumn kicked in. It IS harder to ride in the wind, and the cold can slow you down, not to mention the heavier layers of clothes.

[Kitsune06]

I hate to say it, but speed is more dictated by strength and endurance than the clothes you wear, the equipment tacked on and all those precious grams. It's not until you're really racing, when strength and endurance match those of the competition and you need every edge that you can get, that these things are important. Until then, you're just buying excuses.

[RoadRaven]

Kit... don't "hate to say it"

Its true... absolutely and comprehensively
Say it... say it loud - too many people I race with blame the bike, the shoes, the helmet, the gears, the cranks.... etc etc etc... Very few own up to their own performance!

(I race at entry level still... )

And I am going to borrow your phrase - "buying excuses" - its perfect.
Excellent word crafting.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Sorry, but I can't afford to buy excuses- spent all my spare money on winter biking clothes so I can KEEP RIDING! I rode almost 4 hours today in 31F and almost got frostbite. Didn't bother looking at my speed, the hell with THAT... I just wanted to make it home alive! :cool:

[Bike Goddess]

Lisa- I just think that riding in 31 degree weather is a feat in itself! Besides, I think temperatures that low do have an effect on your speed. As SK said, it takes longer for our bodies to warm up (if they ever do!!!).

[RoadRaven]

31'F???

Isn't that about 0'celsius???

Congrats on making it home without frostbite!!!

Brrrr.... I have trouble with a few degrees above freezing - let alone on it or below!!!

You rock, Lisa... and all you other gals who bike in the Northern winter... (In the southern hemisphere we had a 26' day here and yesterday it was 31'C (thats about 75-85'F I think in your language?)

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Thanks Nancy and Roadraven, you make me feel good!
Yes, 31F is just below 0C. I admit it WAS cold. It wasn't so much the temp as the fact that we were out there pumping up and down hills for almost 4 hours.
I started out feeling cold, then I felt "less cold", fairly comfortable for the middle third of the ride, then I guess I lost steam and hands and feet got really cold. Also the sun was lower in the sky and wasn't warming us anymore at the end because it was behind the trees or hill line most of the time. I had a red face in a perfect circle shape that coincided with the edges of my balaclava! :D And my eyeglasses got realy cold and were giving me an "ice cream headache". :p
DH didn't seem to think much about it- he's always so much warmer than me- (like sleeping with a 6 foot long hot water bottle!) :p

I know there are lots of women out there riding under WAY colder conditions, and in the ice and snow too, but I'm new to this and all my life I've avoided exercise and being outside in the cold, so I feel good about being able to do this at all. Thanks for your encouragement, it means so much to me. :)

[KSH]

I know there are lots of women out there riding under WAY colder conditions, and in the ice and snow too, but I'm new to this and all my life I've avoided exercise and being outside in the cold, so I feel good about being able to do this at all. Thanks for your encouragement, it means so much to me.

Right there with ya.

Everytime I ride when it's below 60F degrees... I feel accomplished. I absolutely HATE the cold and bundling up.

Coldest ride this year, 35F degrees. BBBUUURRRR. Yes, I'm a whimp... to all the ladies living where it's really cold.

But here in Texas, I'm use to riding in 100F degrees heat.

[7rider]

Honestly, I'd rather ride when it's cold (well, maybe not 30 degrees, but in the 40 range, perhaps) than in 100 degree heat. You can always dress for the weather, but it's hard to undress for the heat! I melt in the heat (could be that I'm so sweet and made of sugar! :D ).

But I don't agree that for a recreational cyclist who slows down in cold weather versus summer rides is "buying excuses" for poor performance. If you're riding consistently, your fitness shouldn't have changed that much. Sure, we all have off days and wonder why we left an anchor out to drag behind us some days - or gosh, I think I have a flat! - but it can be more difficult to ride in the cold. Not every body performs optimally in wide temperature ranges. Many things could slow a body down in the winter. No foul. No shame.

[RoadRaven]

Its interesting, Regina, how we have both interpreted Kitsune's post differently.

I felt her "buying excuses" was more about riders who say "if I just had a better bike... different wheeels... a new set of cranks... a *brand-name* helmet" then they would be better/faster/stronger riders.

I certainly don't think recognising the weather and its effect on one's performance is "buying excuses". I didn't get that from Kit's post either.

Like you the heat really beggars my performance... and unlike many of the gals here, I don't ride outside in extreme cold because I know my muscles just wont do what I ask of them.
:rolleyes:

[Kitsune06]

RR, Your interpretation was more on what I meant. It just irks me that people will need name brand this or special that. I'm all for brand loyalty, but to have to advertize is excessive, to feel like it'll make you better for having it is mislead and misplaced faith.

That said, I think I do better in cold weather than warm. Blame my Wisconsin girl roots, but 35-40 is a good range for me. My commuting gear consisted of two layers (three if it was really, really cold, like below 30)... insulating pants, then rain pants over the top, dri-fit (or similar) long sleeved top, a 'vest' (poly sweat shirt with the sleeves removed) and rain jacket. All vents open, etc. gloves were my usu. fingerless fare with $5 stretch-gloves underneath. I don't clip, so I just wore wool socks and my docs (or for rain, my gore-tex patrol boots) REI beanie under helmet. I think the whole outfit comes to $120 or so (allowing that the boots are about seven years old, the jacket is used for other stuff, etc etc...) wearing this I would *still* overheat. :eek:

My standpoint on all this comes from hearing of the death of cyclocross as a layman's sport. the days when cx was taking your everyday bike, slapping wider tires on it, wearing gear like the above and going anaerobic hardcore on it for fun's sake in the snow, slush and cr@p instead of having a superlight bike, with clips and special gear etc. While the people who can afford that stuff will likely win, I'm going to be the person who comes as close as I can given my physical endurance- to the point where my shortcomings in equipment make the difference- and have to accept it. Gracefully. And then go have a recovery beer after to chase off the chill. I just can't see pouring that much money into a hobby if you don't have to.

[logdiva32]

I see you are in Montgomery county MD. R there any sat-sun rides this summer I can look forward to. I will be in that area from end of may til Jul.

[7rider]

I felt her "buying excuses" was more about riders who say "if I just had a better bike... different wheeels... a new set of cranks... a *brand-name* helmet" then they would be better/faster/stronger riders.


You mean it won't????? :eek: :D :rolleyes:
Well, guess I won't be getting those new Fulcrum Racing wheels if they won't get me up that hill faster! :rolleyes:

Okay. I'll buy that.

But....sometimes you want some bling on you bike just for bling's sake. It's like putting 22" spinners on your Escalade. What's the point of that? Well, if you have to ask...there is no point. It just *is*.

p.s. Logdiva32 - I sent you a PM re: riding in MoCo.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Well of course the idea that a certain brand of helmet is going to make you faster is kind of silly for nonprofessionals- but then again noboby here was claiming it would! ;)
I'm no racer (more like a snail) and I have not run into people who blame poor racing performance on their cranks.
All I know is that stuff like heavy winds and extreme cold will most certainly slow ME down. Winds can be good to push against though, for the extra workout.
It's probably just as challenging to ride in 100F temps as it is to ride at below 30F. Some people do better in one over the other. I'm not quite sure yet whether I do better in extreme heat or cold. I do pretty well in 35-45 degrees, and I enjoy it. However, if I'm going to ride in sub-freezing cold I have found I need some pretty heavy duty layering to keep from freezing especially if I am out for several hours. An hour is fairly easy to keep warm in though.