This is getting ridiculous! When are drivers going to WAKE UP?!

[Running Mommy]

I am part of the trinewbies online group, and this was posted. The Gage's are a fixture here in the "zonie" (arizona) tri scene. I am really shaken up about this. Add this to the horror off what happened to trek and Ducks friend in Santa Rosa and it just really upsets me. So much so that I've actually had thoughts on what I would want my family or friends to do if something were to happen to me.
By some grace of god it looks like they will be ok,but it's going to be a long road to recovery.
Read on...

George (and Jane) Gage in Phoenix - hit by car- very bad injuries - how you can help Enter the race even if you don't intend to race! See below!

Attention Athletes and Friends:

DCB Adventures will be donating all proceeds from this Sundays final Splash & Dash race to George and Jane Esahak-Gage.

George and Jane were involved in a very serious accident while riding their bikes this past weekend.

Please, even if you will be out of town or maybe do not want to race, go online and fill out a registration http://www.active.com/event_detail.cfm?event_id=1329629

or send the registration in to DCB Adventures PO Box 27524 Scottsdale, AZ 85255, entries are only $20!

Details regarding the accident are copied in below, thanks for your help and thanks for keeping George and Jane in your thoughts and prayers! And please forward this email to get the word out, thanks again!


DeeAnn Bonnell

azcoaching.com

An Ultrafit Associate

USA Cycling Expert Coach

USA Triathlon Level 2 Coach

NASM, Certified Personal Trainer

Secretary, USAT SW Region BOD

deeann@azcoaching.com

602.369.257

What happened?

George and Jane were riding over the Chandler overpass heading West towards home - Jane was in the draft. They were traveling at roughly 18mph over the overpass. A 23 year old unlicensed, uninsured man who was late for work exited I10 heading South up the I10 off ramp towards Chandler Blvd. As George and Jane were passing in front of that intersection, the driver entered into the intersection and hit George directly on the right side. They estimate he was traveling between 30 and 40 mph when he hit George. Jane was in the draft position and as a result, hit the left fender and went flying over the hood.



The details of what else happened are unclear. Jane said that when the guy moved into the intersection all she saw was a flash, and next thing she knew she was in an ambulance. George landed in the median and the driver of the car ran into a pole, stopping him there. That driver was given a ticket for no insurance, no license and running a red light...and that was it.



Kudos to Tim Venard, the paramedic that arrived 1st on the scene. Simply put, Tim was the first person to save George's life that day.



George's Injuries...

George's injuries are extensive. The most life-threatening was internal bleeding from a tear in his vena cava, the major vein that receives all of the blood back from your veins and into the heart. It was in a precarious location from what the surgeon explained - buried under some vital organs, making the repair extremely difficult. The surgeon - Jordy Cox, was able to repair the tear and found no other internal bleeding. That was fantastic news!



The surgeons were worried about his right kidney, which was damaged but they said it will heal. After the vena cava surgery, the orthopedic surgeons went to work on his right leg which was broken at his tibia with bone and muscle exposed. It was a long, difficult surgery. They were able to repair his leg by placing a titanium rod into the bone. >From what we were told, the surgery went well.



George is currently in the surgical ICU on a respirator. The trauma to his body also included two broken vertebra in his neck, a punctured and collapsed lung, two broken ribs, a broken scapula, a broken clavicle, at least 5 breaks in his pelvis, and pretty much all of his teeth were knocked out. The cat scan showed no nervous system damage. Thank God.. meaning his brain is fine and he has lost no feeling that they know of - so no paralysis. George was able to move all digits to some extent according to Jordy.



What's next for George?

George will be in the surgical ICU for a while. There are no visitors outside of family allowed while in the surgical ICU, and even then, it's very limited. Jane is going down for her visits and leaving - so attempting to go down and visit there would not be a good idea at this time. George will be just needing family visiting for now. As soon as he's moved out of Surgical ICU and Jane wants him to have visitors, we'll let you guys know.



What is George's Current Status?

George had a fantastic night. He was responsive to the ICU nursing and medical staff when spoken to and was able to nod head. When I spoke to Jane's sister Marty this morning at 11:00am, she said that George has really stabilized, is calm and resting.



Jane's Injuries

Jane had a cat scan which showed she was ok. She suffered from a mild concussion and broken pinkie fingers. Her knees were scrapped up pretty good. She was released from the hospital around 4pm yesterday afternoon. I spoke briefly with her sister today around noon, and Jane is sore but physically doing ok.



What's Jane's Current Status?

Jane has obviously been through hell the past 24 hours...but she's doing very well, all things considered. She's emotionally exhausted and did not sleep well last night. Marty (her sister) is driving her to and from the hospital so she can have a bit more recovery time from the head bump yesterday, and family is with Jane at all times right now. This morning Jane asked her family for time to herself, so she's obviously in need of some privacy / processing time.



What's the family going through?

Many family members and friends of family were with Jane all day yesterday, including Kristin McHardy. She is right on the money when she reports that Jane "has been a brave soul." Jane heard everything from "we may lose him" to "he may lose a kidney" to "he may need the leg amputated" from the doctors. " Jane is an incredibly strong woman - and we all love this family very much...but you have to remember that...

Jane and her family have been through hell yesterday waiting and the Lord brought George through yesterday miraculously. They really need our prayers. Kristen and Marty are going to ask Jane what kind of help she may need. Kristen plans on organizing volunteers for meals. However, at this time I think Jane will have her mother at her house and of course

[mimitabby]

what a horrible story. To answer your question: drivers are not going to wake up. For each guy like the driver in this story, there are hundreds of others.
Sorry, it's true. a person on a 25 lb bike is no match for a pickup truck.
and drivers are going to continue to run red lights, forget to look both ways,
forget to signal. It is human nature. the only thing that we can hope to change is human sentiment, and right now a lot of work could be done to improve the way a lot of folks look at bicyclists. But this is truly not what happened here. The guy was being careless, and didn't have great driving skills.

I hope your friends heal and go on to ride again. I know that their insurance company will go after the guy and get every possible dime.

good luck, i'm sorry.

[Geonz]

There is no reason for drivers to wake up when there's no regard for cyclists. As long as people think and say that they don't belong on the roads, then the penalty for being in the way of a car is severe corporal punishment/ bodily injury or death, and that's considered a fitting punishment. If the administer of that punishment happened to be driving without a license, they get their little penalty, too - but it's for breaking those rules, not for the harm done to the other citizen(s).

A car has no chance against a semi, either. However, if a semi smears a car all over the highway, there are consequences for the driver, and people do not question what the car driver was doing on the road (either explicitly or implicitly).

A small child has no chance against a big bully, either. Should small children not walk down school hallways or visit the bathrooms? WHile I know many people think "that's life," personally I think it is worth striving for a world where big and small *do* co-exist, and might does not give one the right to accidentally maim other people. We're not talking about a wild animal here; we're talking about a car, being driven by a human. Humans should be held responsible for what happens in the vehicles they're supposed to be controlling.

[Crankin]

This happened 5 miles from where I used to live....
Scary. AZ has always had an issue with uninsured and unlicensed drivers. My mother in law was in a vehicle accident with one and it took years to resolve it. Of course, this could happen anywhere, but it shook me up a little more than usual.

Robyn, ex- Zonie

[emily_in_nc]

Reading all the accident posts in TE over the past few months has made me happy that I've decided to focus more on mountain biking over road riding. I love riding on the road, but I go back and forth about whether I feel it's safe enough for me to actually do. Although traffic is generally light around where I live (in the country), there are no shoulders and lots of big pickup trucks. Cyclists are generally not well-liked, from what I can tell.

I manage to bang myself up around half the time I head out on a mountain bike, but I've not come close to doing the damage that a close encounter with a car (or a dog, like my accident in 2005) could do.

I have never heard of the Gages, but what happened to them could happen to any of us. Unfortunately, all our careful riding and defensive tactics can only go so far towards preventing deadly accidents; if a motorist is clueless, careless, not paying attention, we can still get hit and seriously injured or killed through no fault of our own.

I go back and forth about whether that risk is worth taking or not. At the time I added my signature (below), I felt that it was. Tonight, I'm not so sure. There are a lot of other healthy activities I enjoy that do not involve this degree of risk.

What a horrible crash...I hope George will recover in time. My heart goes out to him and his family right now.

Emily

[7rider]

It *is* a horrible accident, there is no getting around that.
But, Emily, horrible accidents happen anywhere. Someone posted recently about a cyclist killed in Massachusetts, and the only likely culprit was a dead mouse on the scene.
You can't give up on road cycling because of this. It makes the cars "win" and only reinforces the notion that "bikes don't belong." Sure, I don't want to prove the point with the blood of cyclists, but retreating in fear is not the answer either.
My best to the Gages. A horrible accident and wish them both speedy recovery.

[Thistle]

This is so awful Running Mommy. I hope that they will be ok, and eventually be back on their bikes. That sounds like such a trite statement, but I just want them to recover and be ok. :(

It is truly awful. :(

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Sadly, I think we are going to see a continued rise in bikes getting hit by cars for perhaps one reason more than any other- cell phones. Drivers talking on cell phones are having more and more accidents now. Fatal car/motorcycle accidents are suddenly on a rapid rise after more than a decade of steady decline. Why? I'll give you one guess.
Here in NY state is is ILLEGAL to talk on a hand-held cell phone while driving. Yet the law seems to be totally ignored. One out of every 10 or so drivers I pass on the road is holding a cell phone to their ear while driving.
There have to be TOUGH new nationwide laws to stop this. People are getting distracted and people are getting killed. And if YOU talk on the phone while driving, PLEASE rethink it.

[Keely]

What an awful accident. It scares me to hear about these accidents, but it won't stop me riding. I think the more cyclist gettig out there on the road the more likely it is that drivers will finally become aware of the need to be more careful, because they're more likely to know someone who is a cyclist and/or has been hit by a careless driver.

My partner was supposed to go on a hill ride about 2-3 weeks ago but couldn't make it because of work. The next day we found out that the four guys who had gone for the ride were all taken out by a young female driver when she lost control in the rain. Two guys are back on their bikes now, but one has a brain injury and the doctor's aren't sure what exactly is wrong with him and the other guy had a serious gash on his leg.

I'm just glad that it's compulsoy to have third party insurance here in Australia, it's included in your car registration.

Keely

[ridethewind]

I agree on the cell phone issue, Lisa. In September in a town near where I live, a teenager driving her car struck and killed a young man who was riding his bicycle. She was downloading ringtones and changing lanes when she hit him. The coroner ruled the death a homicide. The teen was charged with improper lane usage.

[light_sabe_r]

Sadly, I think we are going to see a continued rise in bikes getting hit by cars for perhaps one reason more than any other- cell phones. Drivers talking on cell phones are having more and more accidents now. Fatal car/motorcycle accidents are suddenly on a rapid rise after more than a decade of steady decline. Why? I'll give you one guess.
Here in NY state is is ILLEGAL to talk on a hand-held cell phone while driving. Yet the law seems to be totally ignored. One out of every 10 or so drivers I pass on the road is holding a cell phone to their ear while driving.
There have to be TOUGH new nationwide laws to stop this. People are getting distracted and people are getting killed. And if YOU talk on the phone while driving, PLEASE rethink it.

Australia introduced these laws a few years back...

Hasn't really stopped anybody. The police will ask you for your phone and check it when you're in an accident (they checked mine when I was in a 4 car bumper to bumper in 2004 to make sure I wasn't talking on it at the time... The only call I had made after 4pm was to 000 when the car had crashed)

Those good kind souls who have stopped using your phone since the law was introduced. I salute you!

I'm also glad we must have third party Keely. ^_^ Of course that means the Rego bill is expensive but it's so worth it.

Poor George. At least he has motor function and touch sensation.

I hope the bastard that hit him pays for his teeth!!! >_< (on top of the rest of the medical costs)

[spokewench]

Hi Runny Mommy:

I want on AZ Cycling website this morning and saw the report that the Gage's had been hit and injured. I'm horrified! I'm sorry to say that I really don't think people in cars are going to learn, but I think education is the key. However, there will always be those people who are willing to break the law, or don't give a D - - - about anything, even their own lives. We need to teach our children courtesy, obligation, and accountability in all things and that includes driving. Hopefully, they will grow up and spread the word!

We also, as a country, need to get over the belief that driving a car is a GOD given right and that if you hit something in a car it is always called an "ACCIDENT". When we hit something because of inattentiveness, breaking the law, drunkeness, etc., IT IS NOT AN ACCIDENT!

We have had a lot of people hit by cars in my small community of Flagstaff in the last couple of years. Some fairly minor, some much more major (very similar to Mr. Gage) and one young man who was killed. The young man who was killed was just really starting out in life, was just about to get his master degree, his wife was pregnant, etc. and he was hit by a drunk driver (who had multiple drunk driving convictions before he struck and killed Matt). This happened just after my friends became board members for our local club of which Matt had been a member and racer.

These kinds of things strike hard and make so many people talk about not riding the road any more. But, I don't think we can let this happen, we have to persevere and be careful.

I'm sure that many more people are killed in vehicular/vehicular collisions than ever are killed or maimed in bike/vehicle collisions.

Somehow we need to make people aware that driving poorly and causing accidents is not acceptable. That it is not an ACCIDENT. That is a major killer in our country just like Cancer or heart problems and that we need to deal with this problem in our society aggressively!

I am praying for Mr. Gage - it sounds like he is lucky to be alive and I am wishing him the fastest recovery that his serious injuries will allow

[Geonz]

THe ringtone-downloader in question *should* have already had her license revoked because of previous infractions (all having happened in the space of about 15 months). Seems the paperwork got lost along the way. Illinois doesn't have a particularly good record when it comes to making sure the drivers are qualified to be on the road :(

[Grog]

What happened to the Gage family is awful and I hope they all get better quickly...

I think it's been proven that security increases with the number of cyclists on the road. The more cyclists on the road, the more conscious drivers are of their potential presence. I don't think it solves everything, especially not for fast roadies (who sometimes have better bike skills but lesser margin for error - theirs or someone else - due to their speed), but respect comes with numbers. Maybe in part because the more cyclists there are, the more likely drivers are to know someone who is a cyclist, and to be more careful.

So I'm not going to leave the road to the drivers.

[eclectic]

What a horrible and sad thing :( glad to hear that the injuries though life-threatening are starting to heal.

I don't know what the solution is. :confused:

Education would be a good place to start. When I told a coworker that bicycles follow the same rules of the road as vehicles and have a right to be on the road she found that incredulous. She thought they followed the same rules as pedestrians.

[pooks]

This is so horrible. I hope the Gages recover fully.

The one thing that bothers me about biking is that I've always refused to get on a motorcycle (well, once when I was 14) because they're too dangerous. And here I'm on a bike in traffic? This doesn't make me feel any safer about motorcycles, so why should I feel safe on a bike? The only difference is the speed issue, which is huge. OTOH, if a car is involved, what difference does speed make?

[Trek420]

There's been much debate here on whether or not to post these kinds of things. Cycling can be a dangerous sport, anyone who watches the TdF that is basicly a month long high speed crash :rolleyes: usually no cars involved.

The debate here has been there are those even on TE (where we all have a passion for the sport I hope) who will read these and think "that's it I quit".

Others may continue but freeze when being relaxed is key.

Then there's "oh, that would never happen to me, she did _____, I never do ___ I always do _____" and yes always doing _____ makes you safer.

I've read that here in the States about 37 cyclists die each year, I don't know if that figure is true. Many crashes go unreported such as urban poor riders, they are not on this forum or make the news.

When you consider the thousands and thousands of miles ridden each year all in all it's pretty safe. Maybe more so than driving itself :o

All this makes no difference when that one person is a loved one.

No figures make sense then. Or when it's someone you know, have ridden with.

I want to share something about Kathy. Kathy was my cousin Maurys "stoker", Maury's about my age. He's always been there, he's MY cousin and now we share this sport. We had been talking about some time if he wants to do a double and Kath's not available, he thought he could outfit their Calfee to fit me.

I'm much shorter than Kath but he thought it could be done.

"But tandems go so fast" I said "I might feel out of control, I've never done..." . Maury was just grinning, here's his cousin, fits the tandem and I can do centuries...why not?

He said "we don't ride our bikes to anticipate every danger that could happen"

We ride for the joy (and the food), I hope we always do.

[Blueberry]

These posts do sadden me, and they all make us evaluate the risks of the things we do in our daily lives. That is as it should be. However, we should think about *all* of the risks we take. I doubt that there is good data out there on how safe cycling really is. It's just not that well studied. We have more information on how many car accidents there are, pedestrians are hit, etc.

Sure, we could all never leave our houses, but the fact of life is that we take risks every time we get in a car, walk across the street or get on an airplane. I don't plan to stop any of those. I'm just not convinced that cycling is that much more dangerous than walking in an urban area, or any number of other activities we participate in. We have had lots of pedestrians hit recently. Lots of small cars are totaled by big trucks every day. I drive a small car on a 65 mile round trip commute every day. I think that is much more dangerous that riding my bike could be.

As long as the pace of life keeps speeding up and people are pressed to work more and more hours, with more pressures on their time and more stress in their lives, there will continue to be problems. (as an aside, I think the same things are contributing to road rage). Cell phones are a part of this, sure. So are unrestrained children, lack of sleep and any number of other things. Yes, we absolutely need to take steps to force drivers to be safe, including mandating hands free devices. I won't talk on a cell in a car without one. However, until we as a society address creasing pressures on lives, things will not improve significantly.

I wish I had the answer...I don't. But I'll keep riding my bike.

[Thistle]

I wish I had the answer...I don't. But I'll keep riding my bike.

me too

[emily_in_nc]

I've read that here in the States about 37 cyclists die each year, I don't know if that figure is true. Many crashes go unreported such as urban poor riders, they are not on this forum or make the news.

Lots of good points, Trek, but the 37 fatalities per year is not accurate. Here's a more accurate count: Deaths per year: 725, 629, 665, 732, and 693 cyclists died per year in 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, and 2000 respectively, and were about 89% male. (National Highway Traffic Saftey Administration, and Insurance Institute for Highway Saftey) [Reference: http://bicycleuniverse.info/transpo/almanac-safety.html

Other interesting statistics from the site:

Where cyclists die or crash

U.S. cyclists are three more likely to be killed than German cyclists and six times more than Dutch cyclists, whether compared per-trip or per-distance traveled. (Reuters, Aug. 28, 2003, by Maggie Fox)

Cyclist fatalities occurred more frequently in urban areas (66%), at nonintersection locations (67%), between the hours of 5 p.m. and 9 p.m. (30%), and during the months of June, July, and August (36%). (NHTSA, 2004)

Riding on the sidewalk is several more times more dangerous than riding in the street. (William Moritz, 1998)

Most deaths on major roads. Fifty-seven percent of bicycle deaths in 1999 occurred on major roads, and 37 percent occurred on local roads. (6)

Streets with bike lanes have a significantly lower crash rate then either major or minor streets without any bicycle facilities (38 and 56% respectively). (William Moritz, 1998)

Streets with bike lanes are safer than those without. Article also has information about the safety of bike paths. (BicyclingInfo.org, 2004)

Texas leads cycling deaths. Texas ranks 14th in number of cyclist fatalities per capita. (5)

Four states lead cycling deaths. Four states (California, Florida, New York, and Texas) accounted for 43% of bicycle deaths in 1999. (6)

Non-Fatal Injuries:

One in every 20 bicyclists is injured annually.(Bicycling Magazine 1987)

A bicyclist can expect a minor injury every three years and a more serious one every fifteen. (Bicycle Forum 1978) rides?!]

Kinds of crashes. Falls account for 59% of all crashes, running into a fixed object 14%, moving motor vehicles were involved in 11%, and another bicycle in 9%. (Moritz, 1998)

But here's the good news:

Health benefits of cycling outweigh the risks. "The gain of 'life years' through improved fitness among regular cyclists, and thus their increased longevity exceeds the loss of 'life years' in cycle fatalities (British Medical Association, 1992). An analysis based on the life expectancy of each cyclist killed in road accidents using actuarial data, and the increased longevity of those engaging in exercise regimes several times a week compared with those leading relatively sedentary lives, has shown that, even in the current cycle hostile environment, the benefits in terms of life years gained, outweigh life years lost in cycling fatalities by a factor of around 20 to 1." -- Mayer Hillman, Senior Fellow Emeritus, Policy Studies Institute, and British Medical Association researcher (7, 8) :)

So keep on pedaling, gals! I will try to do the same and not let my nagging fears and periodic pessimism immobilize me.

Emily

[Deborajen]

Interesting statistics. The one that really jumped out at me was the streets with bike lanes having much lower crash rates. When I'm driving, I take an extra look for cyclists in the bike lanes but on the road, it's more likely that I could miss seeing them. I really do wish there were more bike lanes throughout the country because it's definitely a win-win means of cars and bikes coexisting.

I'll keep riding, but I'm getting more and more choosy about where I'll ride.

Deb

[Geonz]

One of the motorbikers in our cycling advocacy group tonight mentioned that they use the terms "risk awareness" and "risk acceptance" a lot. We choose our risks; a sedentary lifestyle is definitely risky.

[tygab]

This is a great topic, and a lot of these thoughts both pro and con have gone through my mind.

I suspect the stats are underreported also, and I do think stiffer penalties should be imposed for truly negligent driving. I struggle when reading these articles to keep perspective as a new rider, knowing I have yet to encounter a lot of scenarios. Still, the #s are really quite low, which in the scheme of things makes me think we face far greater risks being inactive, or driving ourselves, etc.

I think there is not enough driver education and testing. Kids/drivers are not taught to drive in rain, snow, extreme sun, night, and all kinds of conditions drivers regularly face. While some states now have graduated licenses, which is a good step, there still isn't a lot of time focused on practical skills other than 'turn left. stop. turn right. Good.'

Licensed drivers are almost never retested (I haven't been once since getting my license in HS, and have relicensed in 2 states). I have participated in a few winter driving schools, which are not only fun, but very effective at demonstrating some simple physics in action.

If you think about that, how can any of us be surprised when drivers have no understanding of bicycles on the road? Unfortunately, it falls to us the bicyclists to fight for our claim to the road by educating and complaining and generally pointing out that yes, it DOES matter to drivers.

Signage is a very good start and I would like to see signs on many more roads. Just the simple yellow sign with a bicycle, or the discussed elsewhere 'bicycles stop at line for green' or turning lanes etc all reinforce that yes, bikes are entitled to use the road too.

I'd say my town is pretty bike friendly, but yet there are a few stretches of roads that are in disrepair to the extent of being a danger to cyclists, and unfortunately I have to take one such section to get back to my house. I haven't complained to the town, yet, but I do think I will before they're signed up for spring road repair.

Finally, I agree there is greater safety in numbers. Not guaranteed, just greater. The 'safest' I have felt while riding this past summer was not at the 4000+ charity ride (though I did feel reasonable safe there), because there were almost too many cyclists at points. Nor was it when I was riding the nearby roads with my husband (though, there too I felt reasonably safe).

No, it was actually riding around the Lake Placid area just before the Ironman. There were probably hundreds of riders at any given time, but they were spread out training over several routes/roads, and the drivers are respectful - some maybe because they care, some maybe because they are willing to 'put up' with it, some maybe only because they are forced to behave with so many cycle friendly witnesses around. Whatever it is, I don't care. As far as I am concerned that's how it should be. I'll add that this area also is well signed as bike routes, and there are bike tourists and people training most of the riding weather months.

Another example, there's a nice long rail trail running thru my town (and neighboring ones). It cuts across roads at several points. More often than not, the car drivers STOP when they see cyclists. No one's forcing them to. I could argue this isn't proper driving behavior either, but I'll take a stopped vehicle who acknowledges a cyclist as a positive, because it's imprinting that cyclists matter on the driver's mind.

Like in LP, there's road signage, there's the cycling traffic, and there is the understanding (even if subconscious) that the people riding might be neighbors or friends.

The only way I think we can hope for that lightning in a bottle on a broader scale is by being vocal and/or visibly frequent/numerous wherever we ride, and especially wherever we ride most.

[deena]

We can't make drivers pay attention, and we can't make drivers follow the law. We CAN push to have laws passed that make it a more serious offense if a driver injures a cyclist through inattentive driveing or failure to yield. We CAN give our law enforcement the law to cite these people when they cause horrible consequences for people trying to ride (or walk) safely.

True, it won't make physical recovery any easier for the victims, but at least we aren't adding insult to injury by ignoring the trauma they have endured.

Do any states (other countries) have laws that address this?

[Deborajen]

We can't make drivers pay attention, and we can't make drivers follow the law. We CAN push to have laws passed that make it a more serious offense if a driver injures a cyclist through inattentive driveing or failure to yield. We CAN give our law enforcement the law to cite these people when they cause horrible consequences for people trying to ride (or walk) safely.

True, it won't make physical recovery any easier for the victims, but at least we aren't adding insult to injury by ignoring the trauma they have endured.

Do any states (other countries) have laws that address this?

Yes - In Germany, cars must yield to cyclists & pedestrians and cyclists must yield to pedestrians. I don't know what the specific penalties are but if a car sees a pedestrian approaching a crosswalk, they stop like their own life depends on it (and the car backs up quickly if they find themselves blocking even inches of a crosswalk with a pedestrian coming). Cars do pretty much the same if a cyclist is approaching. Everyone is obligated to look out for something smaller and more vulnerable. It's a lot to look out for when you're driving, but everyone takes their reponsibility seriously over there.

Our state's driving handbook states that it's the driver's responsibility to look out for anything smaller, but there aren't many laws or ticketable offenses for not doing so. I think, though, that a better system of bike lanes, wider shoulders, etc., would make it easier for us to ride predictably and out of the direct path of cars. We need the laws and more cyclist-friendly roads.

Deb

[Dogmama]

We can't make drivers pay attention, and we can't make drivers follow the law. We CAN push to have laws passed that make it a more serious offense if a driver injures a cyclist through inattentive driveing or failure to yield.... Do any states (other countries) have laws that address this?

Yes. In Arizona killing a cyclist will cost you $1,000. If you simply injure her, the fine is reduced to $500.

I noticed in N.C., tossing a wrapper out of your car will cost you $1,200. Shooting an animal out of season can cost you upwards of $2,000.

Recently, a cyclist was killed in the bike lane. The car entered the bike lane and hit him from behind. The driver was cited for driving in the bike lane. Period.

_____________


Re: Cell phones - it has been shown that holding the phone isn't the problem. Actually talking on the phone, thus diverting attention away from the road, is what causes the problems. So, hands-free devices aren't any better.

[MomOnBike]

Geonz said:

We choose our risks; a sedentary lifestyle is definitely risky.

I was about to make that point. Heart disease, pulmonary disease, diabetes, and a LONG list of other "lifestyle" diseases kill many more people than bikes ever could, even with the "help" of cars. Heart attacks just don't get the headlines, though.

Me, I'm aware that I will die someday. I'd rather do it on my bike than wasting away in a nursing home. Of course, I'm planning on waiting awhile for that to happen. :)

[emily_in_nc]

'Tis very true that a sedentary lifestyle is a *huge* risk, much more so than cycling. But the thing that gives me pause is that there are a lot of *less* risky healthy activities than (road) cycling that accomplish the same thing -- if aerobic and muscular fitness is our primary goal. Running (not in traffic, but say, on trails) and hiking for starters, both of which I enjoy a great deal. Mountain biking, perhaps more risky for minor crashes (at least for me!), but probably less risky for fatal/debilitating ones.... Choosing not to ride on the road does not condemn one to a life of sloth, clogging arteries, and increasing weight as there are other alternatives.

These are the things I think about when I try to weigh the risks and rewards of road cycling. I love it so, but at times my fears do hold me back these days. I have lost my innocence since my own serious accident and hearing/reading so about so many others in the past couple of years. Some days, my yearning to ride on the road is stronger than my fears, normally only when the weather is perfect and my mood is upbeat and positive. Other days, I just can't bring myself to go out on the road. I used to feel invincible out there, very confident, never even thought about crashing or being hit. I'm much more cautious now. That's a good thing -- but I do miss the "ignorance is bliss" stage. I had more worry-free fun back then.

Emily

[Grog]

'Tis very true that a sedentary lifestyle is a *huge* risk, much more so than cycling. But the thing that gives me pause is that there are a lot of *less* risky healthy activities than (road) cycling that accomplish the same thing -- if aerobic and muscular fitness is our primary goal.

For me cycling is not just about fitness, it's about having a lifestyle that is more respectful of my environment (both human and physical). That's one of the main reasons why I won't leave the road to the cars alone.

Hiking and mountain biking are both great, but these are things I need to take a car to do. Running is great, I do it a lot, but it's also very taxing on my body (joints) compared to cycling. The road is right there at my feet when I walk out of my door. I also need to go places. I much prefer taking my bike than my car. Often I'll still take the car, if it's pouring rain and I need to buy groceries for 10 people, or if it's night (I am not properly equipped for night riding right now). I love 'cycling for cycling' but I gain even more satisfaction sometimes from running errands or going to events on my bike (not my road bike though).

I understand your bad vibes about riding on the road and the 'lost innocence' thing. I think A LOT of car drivers actually are still in that ignorant bliss and don't realize that driving is a dangerous activity. By putting them on bikes we're also increasing safety for us...

[Dogmama]

It is important that we cyclist realize that just because we have rights on the road, many drivers will not yield to us. Once a driver almost hit me broadside. I chased him down (OK, not smart, I was young & dumb) and yelled:

"You could have killed me!"

His reply?

"You could have scratched my car!"

Whereupon he sauntered into the store. I got on the phone & called 911 & reported him. A cop actually showed up (maybe because this dispatcher realized it was crazy) and "talked to him."

[inatree]

cycling is definetely the most dangerous thing i have participated in. but i am addicted, and feel the need to ride everyday. sometimes i have close calls...but i consider myself a "defensive rider" and altho i annoy ppl i'm sure with my hesitant actions, i like to be prepared for drivers cutting me off, passing too close, drifting in the bike lane, etc.

my life has been a nightmare tho. cycling is beautiful. its the only peaceful part of my whole existence. i hope i die on my bike. i hope one of these days a nice big truck wipes me out. i am ready for it.

[Grog]

my life has been a nightmare tho. cycling is beautiful. its the only peaceful part of my whole existence. i hope i die on my bike. i hope one of these days a nice big truck wipes me out. i am ready for it.

Oh Inatree don't say that!!!

We want you here. So no big truck.

Please be careful...

[emily_in_nc]

For me cycling is not just about fitness, it's about having a lifestyle that is more respectful of my environment (both human and physical). That's one of the main reasons why I won't leave the road to the cars alone.

Hiking and mountain biking are both great, but these are things I need to take a car to do. Running is great, I do it a lot, but it's also very taxing on my body (joints) compared to cycling. The road is right there at my feet when I walk out of my door. I also need to go places. I much prefer taking my bike than my car. Often I'll still take the car, if it's pouring rain and I need to buy groceries for 10 people, or if it's night (I am not properly equipped for night riding right now). I love 'cycling for cycling' but I gain even more satisfaction sometimes from running errands or going to events on my bike (not my road bike though).

I completely agree with your sentiments, grog. And I also ride for much more than just fitness -- I think that some folks on this thread were emphasizing riding vs. doing nothing at all physical, and that's simply not an option I'd even consider! I am lucky in that I can both mountain bike and hike (and road ride) right from my door since I live in the woods on acreage with trails around me (and much more vacant acreage). Doesn't mean I do that all the time as I like to have more alternatives, like hiking at state and national parks and mountain biking on different trails with friends. And, I live far enough away from most everything, living in a rural area as I do, that there are few places I can actually ride to that constitute "running errands". I can go to the library (7.5 miles one way), post office (3 miles), food co-op (14 miles), farmer's market (14 miles), and Performance bike shop (15 miles), though! I can't get to work (would be 40+ miles one way on back roads), and other shops are in much busier areas and on multi-lane roads I'm just not up to tackling. We did ride to the food co-op, farmer's market, and post office several times this past summer, but I don't like riding in cold weather so tend to hang up my helmet this time of year and do more hiking (and yes, we usually drive to parks, but look at how many people ride to cycling club events and club rides -- I used to as well since they normally start too early or are too far away to ride to, though I'd do that when I could manage it), trail and treadmill running (these both require no driving since I have trails right from my house and a gym at my workplace)....

It's just a tough dilemma since I do so believe in riding and live and breathe it in many ways (have four bikes, more bike clothes than regular, have "Share the road" bumper stickers on my car, am a LAB and Adventure Cycling member, etc. I just wish I felt safer out there on the roads these days.

And, it kinda hurts that my DH is just not into cycling these days either. He used to be - big time. But he hasn't been very interested since I had my accident in April 2005. I think he kinda lost his innocence that day too. :(

Emily

[Geonz]

I can get to everything by bike ... it's a college town and there are a lot of bikes. I've lived in places where ... well, I don't know if I"d bike there or not.

I do know that I'm cycling places that used to scare me ... but I"m pretty easily scared. I also bike for lots and lots and lots of reasons ... so my comments about other lifestyles being risky includes risking the earth, too. I'd just love it if enough people cycled so there weren't enough cars to run over us...

(and inatree, yea, we want you HERE... watch out for them trucks and be nice to yourself!)