Puppy Blues !

[Morphine]

Recently a proud owner of an extremely luvable 2 month old mini schaunzer, "Teddy"'s her name (why ? coz she reeaaally looks like one!) ;) BUT along came weeks of poo and pee cleaning, morning before and evening after work :( Despite the constant depotation act of catching her in the act & bringing her to designated poo tray, Teddy never failed to "surprise", especially in the rush mornings, by pooping in or around her crate vicinity :mad:
Any pup owners experiencing / experienced puppy blues, appreciate any advice. *sigh* cant wait till this stage gets over. :p

[CyclChyk]

your babies are gorgeous!!

Having 4 dogs of my own the only advise I can offer is what has worked for me.

The first 6 months of the dogs life should be spent in a crate at night. This will mean getting up at 4am so she may relieve herself if necessary. This also means that in the morning, first thing, take the puppy out of the crate to do her business. What that meant for me is that sometimes I was struggling to "hold it" while I waited for my puppy to "go potty". This will ease as the 6mo age mark nears, but its so vital that you do no waiver from this. I have done less than 6 months with one of my dogs and it has not been pretty. The others are golden.

I have also found that sticking their noses in the mess is ineffective. 9 times out of 10 it is after the fact where the puppy has no idea what you are scolding them for. My best experiences is to watch my baby like a hawk, more or less walk them every frickin hour, and when they would show behavior of having to go potty (trust me, there are signs) I would take them out BEFORE damage could be done and offer MUCH praise when they did good.

2 of my dogs were paper trained initially. They now are firm believers of relieving themselves outdoors. (and FWIW, I work 20 miles from my home, a full work week and then some. My advantage I believe is that I have a doggie door with a fenced back yard....)

[Dogmama]

A few things I've learned throughout the years:

Take Teddy to her designated area immediately after waking or eating. Wait until something happens. Be patient - it could take 10 minutes or more.
Praise profusely.

If Teddy is soiling the crate, the crate is too big. Get a smaller crate.

I'm assuming that Teddy is inside while you are at work with no way to get outside, correct? If so, invest in puppy pads. They are treated with a smell that will attract a dog to that area to relieve themselves. After Teddy becomes old enough to hold it, you'll slowly move it to the door & then outside, if that is the final destination. Patience.

Watch Teddy when she isn't in the crate. The minute you see the action (sniffing, running in a circle) take her to her area (outside, if that will be the final destination.)

When you find an accident, get a rolled up newspaper and walk to the area. Take the newspaper and repeatedly hit yourself in the head while chanting "Bad owner! Bad owner!" OK, that's a joke. Seriously, don't spank when you find an accident. Clean it up & let it go. The dog doesn't associate the spanking with the action, especially at 8 weeks old.

Clean it with a solution that will eliminate the smell. If you have tile, vinegar works well. If it is carpet, you might look into a commercial cleaner for this task. Check Petsmart or some other pet store.

[TexasMermaid]

If Teddy is soiling the crate, the crate is too big. Get a smaller crate.


To add to what Dogmama said, if the crate is too big but will be the right size when your dog is full grown, you can place a sealed box in the back half of the crate while the pup is small to reduce the available space now. You'll want to get a box that doesn't have tears or flaps that would be attractive for chewing though.

My sister did this with her dog and replaced the box with smaller and smaller boxes as Dixie grew, which slowly alllowed more space for the dog but not more space than she needed. It worked well and saved my sister the cost of buying multiple crates.

[Bad JuJu]

Just agreeing with what everyone else said, and adding, what adorable pups you have!!!

[Hub]

I have a new baby as well - she's 4 months old. I feel your pain with the peeing & pooping. Kasey is partly housebroken- she'll do it outside as long as
we watch closely for the signs. It's helpful to monitor the baby's intake- you'll have a better idea when to expect output!

[Aggie_Ama]

Crate train!! I didn't stick to my guns on it and have had heck to pay for 5 years. I can't wait to get a yard for my little schnauzers.

Your little gal is so cute! Of course I have a soft spot for the little white one, I am assuming Teddy is the brown one?

[TsPoet]

This sounds odd - but put a string of bells on whatever door you use to let her out most of the time at dog nose height. My boss did this, the local trainer feels that this makes the dog associate jingling bells with going potty.
My bosses dog, now 2 years old, goes over and rings the bells whenever she has to go out, and a human knows to come open the door.
Worked like a charm for her.
Cute dogs, worth all the effort to house train.

[lph]

This is why I love cats. I like dogs too, and those puppies were so cute! but I LOVE cats.

We have a 10 week-old kitten. She was wild and terrified when we got her at 8 weeks, so we left her alone for a day or two in the bathroom with a bowl of water, a bowl of food and a cat toilet. When we came in she'd be under the chest of drawers hissing at us, but left alone she ate and drank and used the toilet perfectly.

After two weeks she's now the undisputed queen of the household :)

[CyclChyk]

ohhh look at the lil' pom!!! What a cutie! you guys are really making me want another dog.....and 4 is plenty!

BTW My mom did the bell thing with her toy poodle. It worked like a charm for her too. Now she has a tiny doggie door installed tho so its no longer needed. (She lives in a condo with a tiny back yard)

[KSH]

I feel your pain!

Except I have a 7 year old Maltese who has decided she isn't house trained anymore.

Basically, she pees on the floor before I wake up in the morning.

I cage her during the day, for 12 hours (yes, I know, horrible... but it's the best I can do with my work schedule)... so I hate to cage her at night too. That, and she will bark the entire time.

My solution? Diapers. Yep. She wears diapers at night. And for some odd reason, she doesn't realize that she is peeing on herself every morning. It's annoying... and I have to spend 30 minutes every morning cleanin her up and washing the diaper.

After the new year, I'm going to look into options to find her a new home. I love her to death, but obviously I can't train her and my lifestyle doesn't work for her.


Otherwise... your dogs are SO CUTE!!!!

[Tuckervill]

KSH, I'd take the dog to the vet to make sure something else isn't going on. She's too young to be incontinent due to old age. Old enough to know better.

Karen

[Dogmama]

I feel your pain!

Except I have a 7 year old Maltese who has decided she isn't house trained anymore.




Get her to a vet. You might have a kidney or bladder problem. Dogs do not normally pee on themselves.

[chickwhorips]

awe cute puppies!

when i was going through potty training a while back i was frustrated too. what saved me was getting a doggy door. so nice. that and she was happy she could go outside on her own and 'tan'.

when i moved up here no doggy door and she thought downstairs was outside. i busted her one time going potty downstairs and that was all it took. the rath of mom. :eek:

the main thing is to catch them in the act, which is hard, but once you do its really affective.

i like the bell idea. never thought of that. though my two would constantly ring the bell, that's just how they are. :rolleyes:

[HappyAnika]

I feel your pain!

Except I have a 7 year old Maltese who has decided she isn't house trained anymore.

Basically, she pees on the floor before I wake up in the morning.






My dog (spayed) started developing incontinence at age 6. My vet said its not uncommon for spayed females to start as early as 4. They loose control of the smooth muscles that keep them from holding it. This was easily fixed with medication. There are a couple of options available, some involve a pill 2x a day, depending on the severity of the condition and the dog's response, or sometimes they can go on another type of med, involving 1 pill every 6 days or so, again, depending on the dogs response. We have hardwood floors, my dog would let herself go, then I'd see this puddle and say "Kelly!" and she'd start wagging her fluffy tail, spreading pee everywhere, it was terrible. Not a problem anymore.

Morphine, I feel your pain (no pun intended). Our younger dog, a lab, supposed to be a smart breed, right?, took 5 months to house break. Everytime I'd turn around she was peeing on the floor. Just keep at it, they will eventually get it. I agree with what everyone else has said. For us the crate training helped immensely after she was about 16 weeks. Before then it didn't do any good. Some say until 16 weeks they may just not get it, just cover your floors with newspaper and hope for the best, but keep trying!

[xeney]

I agree with all the comments about crate training, taking the dog out more often, and making the crate smaller. Two of our three dogs were crate trained in this manner (the other showed up as an adult and was already housebroken) and nobody has ever had an accident unless the pet sitter left them indoors for over 12 hours.

[KSH]

Get her to a vet. You might have a kidney or bladder problem. Dogs do not normally pee on themselves.


Well, I would think that she has an issue that the vet can solve... IF she were peeing in her cage when I leave her in it during the day. But she doesn't. It's very clear that she can hold it, when she chooses to.

Honestly, I don't think she understands the diaper and that she is NOT peeing on the floor. Seriously.

When I get some money I will try the vet (it costs about $150 everytime I go!), but I honestly think she is choosing to pee on the carpet when she wakes up in the AM. She can hold it just fine when I'm around or when she is in a cage. It's only when she is out of the cage and alone that she does this.


This was easily fixed with medication. There are a couple of options available, some involve a pill 2x a day, depending on the severity of the condition and the dog's response, or sometimes they can go on another type of med, involving 1 pill every 6 days or so, again, depending on the dogs response.

Pills? Wow. That sounds expensive. Is it?

I can see it now... $150 for the vet visit and $60 in pills each month. I hate to whine, but I'm not rich... and I already pay $40 every 2-3 months for eye drops.

It just keeps adding up.

Well, the diaper will have to be the problem solver until after December. I simply can't afford the vet right now.

[Squeaky]

Since you're not going to keep her, at the very least, be sure to put the effort into finding her a good home. Maybe you could start looking now. I don't have a lot of money, and both of my cats are on medication, but they are my children and I chose to be a pet owner. Sorry if I sound judgemental, but we have a responsibility to our pets, and if we aren't going to be committed to them, we have no right to adopt them. If she's holding it for 12hours while she's in a cage, then she needs some retraining. It could also be behavioral since she's alone so much and maybe your vet could recommend something. Maybe you'll have to get up at 3:00 am for a while to let her out, and then let her out again when you get up, and then before you go to work.

[HappyAnika]

Honestly, I don't think she understands the diaper and that she is NOT peeing on the floor. Seriously.



Hmm, I'm confused. Is she peeing on herself as in she's laying down and doesn't realize she's "leaking"? Or is she actually getting up and going to a spot and squatting to pee on the floor, but since she's wearing a diaper it ends up there instead of the floor? If its the first, then it sounds like its incontinence. Incontinence is inconsistent (that's a mouthful). Just because they can hold it at certain times of the day doesn't mean they always can, unfortunately I don't have a good technical explanation for this, I'm just talking based on my experience. If the peeing is the latter, then it does sound like a behavioral issue, in which case I have no advice.

As far as the meds, the once every six days stuff costs about $20 for two months, which is nothing compared to the ridiculously expensive food we feed them. :rolleyes:

I don't mean to sound rude, but if I was locked in a cage for 12 hours a day, I might pee on my human's floor just to get some attention. I realize dogs don't really think this way, I'm just sayin. . . I know you're tight on cash, but is there a retired neighbor or a kid you could have come by and let her out during the day for a small fee, just to see if that changes the situation? Good luck.

[KSH]

Since you're not going to keep her, at the very least, be sure to put the effort into finding her a good home. Maybe you could start looking now. I don't have a lot of money, and both of my cats are on medication, but they are my children and I chose to be a pet owner. Sorry if I sound judgemental, but we have a responsibility to our pets, and if we aren't going to be committed to them, we have no right to adopt them. If she's holding it for 12hours while she's in a cage, then she needs some retraining. It could also be behavioral since she's alone so much and maybe your vet could recommend something. Maybe you'll have to get up at 3:00 am for a while to let her out, and then let her out again when you get up, and then before you go to work.

Well, trust me... I was having this conversation with my best gal-pal last night.

I refuse to give her to anything but a GREAT home. End of story. Honestly, I think my expectations are so high, I will never find anyone. Basically the person needs to be at home most of the time (retired), no kids around ever (the dog is 2-lbs, a kid could kill her by accident), and no other pets.

I also struggle with the idea that I bought her, and I need to keep her... no matter what the behavioral issues are.

I tried a few different routes to try to break her of this habit. I did the "wake up in the middle of the night" route for about 1-2 weeks. Honestly, I was exhausted come the weekend, I even passed riding with my cycling group.

And, it's a dog. I shouldn't have to wake up in the middle of the night... it's a dog, not a baby.

I have tried picking up her water... putting her in the cage (which I refuse to do)... sleeping on the sofa in the living room with her (didn't make a difference)... leaving my bedroom door open (then she just pees in my room)...etc.

Yes, I thought the problem was due to lack of attention... so for a week, I came home and promptly played with her...for 2-3 hours STRAIGHT... that made no difference. And... honestly, I have to do stuff when I get home, I can't play with a dog for 2-3 hours straight.

I got this dog when I was married and my life was different. Then my husband left me... and here I am a single parent.

I think now the question comes in... do I look for a really good home for her and let her have a better life... or do I just keep her because I bought her? What is the "right thing to do"?

[HappyAnika]

KSH, D'oh, I'm so sorry. It looks like I was writing my last reply while you were writing yours. I didn't see that you'd already tried changing up the schedule and paying her more attention. Please disregard my smart a$$ comment about peeing on my human's floor to get more attention!

[KSH]

Hmm, I'm confused. Is she peeing on herself as in she's laying down and doesn't realize she's "leaking"? Or is she actually getting up and going to a spot and squatting to pee on the floor, but since she's wearing a diaper it ends up there instead of the floor? If its the first, then it sounds like its incontinence. Incontinence is inconsistent (that's a mouthful). Just because they can hold it at certain times of the day doesn't mean they always can, unfortunately I don't have a good technical explanation for this, I'm just talking based on my experience. If the peeing is the latter, then it does sound like a behavioral issue, in which case I have no advice.

As far as the meds, the once every six days stuff costs about $20 for two months, which is nothing compared to the ridiculously expensive food we feed them. :rolleyes:

I don't mean to sound rude, but if I was locked in a cage for 12 hours a day, I might pee on my human's floor just to get some attention. I realize dogs don't really think this way, I'm just sayin. . . I know you're tight on cash, but is there a retired neighbor or a kid you could have come by and let her out during the day for a small fee, just to see if that changes the situation? Good luck.

This is what she is doing: Or is she actually getting up and going to a spot and squatting to pee on the floor, but since she's wearing a diaper it ends up there instead of the floor- YES!

I can certainly afford those meds- just maybe not the vet visit right now.

Now, trust me... I know her being locked in a cage that long is not good. I know this. Unfortunately, it's the best I can do for her.

I looked into dog walking services, but it would be $15 a day. I certainly can't afford that. I thought about doggie daycare, but she hates other dogs and leaving the house... and I don't have the time to get there/back or the money to pay for it.

Like I said, when I got her, I was married... so her life was better. The husband left... and I got the dog. And now I'm doing the best I can.... and unfortunately, it's not good enough.

As far as a neighbor doing it... I live in apartments and I don't trust or know anyone around me. On desperate days when I know I can't get there in 12 hours, I pay my boyfriend to walk her ($5). But he can't do that everyday for me.

With that said... I am doing the best I can. I know it's not that great... but it's all I got.

[KSH]

KSH, D'oh, I'm so sorry. It looks like I was writing my last reply while you were writing yours. I didn't see that you'd already tried changing up the schedule and paying her more attention. Please disregard my smart a$$ comment about peeing on my human's floor to get more attention!

Well, it's a fair statement. I know she needs more attention. Then again, this is the dog who refuses to sit in my lap and barely likes being pet. I try to ooze loving all over her and she struggles to get away.

I know what I'm doing isn't good enough. Thus, I believe I should find her a really good home... and I will have time to do that after December.

[xeney]

You know, if she is that tiny, I would find a rescue group. Tiny dogs are always easy to place, and in fact it is very hard to find a small dog available for rescue. Her housebreaking issues are only going to get worse if you have to keep leaving her alone for 12 hours. I would find a local rescue group, preferably a breed-specific one, and tell them about your change in circumstances, and I bet they will find her a home very quickly.

That is actually better than trying to do it yourself, because a rescue group will be equipped to foster and screen.

And seriously, you should do it right now. Because this is no way to live, not for her and not for you.

Good luck.

[Squeaky]

Based on what you've said, I think if you can find her the perfect home and can take the time to do so, then that's the right thing to do. I realize it's not an easy decision, and that major changes in life happen. It's just sad that so many animals end up at kill shelters, or there owners just drop them on the side of the road.

[Aggie_Ama]

KSH- I understand where you are coming from. One of my dogs is a rescue. I honestly thought I was getting a retired breeder from a reputable breeder. Her husband was a vet for crying out loud! Within the first year we got the supposedly healthy dog that had two litters of puppies (yeah right) cost us $600+ in non-routine vet bills.

She continues to cost a lot of money and I have often questioned if I should put her in a rescue group. The poor dog is not healthy due to her previous life. Luckily, my DH and I got better jobs and have been able to take care of her. Before the change in our financial situation I worried I couldn't give her the quality of life she deserved because I couldn't afford it.

You are doing the right thing by caring enough to look for a good home. I am sure there is a North Texas Maltese rescue group that will assist you. ((hugs))

[caligurl]

ok.... i so melted from the pics! *sigh*

[KSH]

Based on what you've said, I think if you can find her the perfect home and can take the time to do so, then that's the right thing to do. I realize it's not an easy decision, and that major changes in life happen. It's just sad that so many animals end up at kill shelters, or there owners just drop them on the side of the road.

Trust me... I would NEVER just dump this dog off anywhere. She is my baby and I will cry when I have to give her up. Just thinking about it is making me well up right now. :(

There is a Maltese Forum that I am going to post her picture on, etc. and see if I can find her a good home.

I will also look for a local rescue group.

This is a really cute dog, and she can be sweet... I know I can find a good home with the proper research.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Trust me... I would NEVER just dump this dog off anywhere. She is my baby and I will cry when I have to give her up. Just thinking about it is making me well up right now. :(

There is a Maltese Forum that I am going to post her picture on, etc. and see if I can find her a good home.

I will also look for a local rescue group.

This is a really cute dog, and she can be sweet... I know I can find a good home with the proper research.

Hey, just a thought- instead of holding out for the "perfect" home for her- how about just settling for a home where she'll get a better situation than she is currently in now with you? I'm not judging you my friend...it is just obvious that you are not in a good lifestyle to have dogs right now. Yes, go the Maltese Rescue route- all those people will have LOTS of time and patience to give to your little needy doggie.
I know you love her, and that's why you are doing the right thing in taking steps to get her a more "dog focused" environment. You are doing it because you DO care about her happiness. :)

[Morphine]

Wow! Thanks for the all the suggestions, really amazed at the "Ring-for-Poop-Time" bells indeed :D Cant wait to try that, although Teddy can only get the attention and have her poop time only when I am at home.

Currently, Teddy is confined to a relatively generous space (no cage) in the house when no one's at home (sometimes for more than 12 hours). She is mindful of the pooping corner during the day most of the time, but as soon as she is let out of the confined premises when I'm home, she does her act at other favourite corners in the house ! Also, I realised that the only time she manages to control her pooping act is when there are guests in the house and when in the car. As for the frequency of pooping, I'm sure there must be at least 4 times throughout 24 hours, its easy to predict the after meal attempts, but the morning ones prior to awakening are the most challenging & waking up at 4am will "kill" my day at work definitely. Haha.. who's being adopted by Teddy now ? :p

KSH, I'm sure you will find the best solution for your Maltese, may it be re-homing her or adjusting your lifestyle to adapt. Just be patient, but sharing your thoughts in this thread sure helps eh ?

[KSH]

Wow! Thanks for the all the suggestions, really amazed at the "Ring-for-Poop-Time" bells indeed :D Cant wait to try that, although Teddy can only get the attention and have her poop time only when I am at home.

Currently, Teddy is confined to a relatively generous space (no cage) in the house when no one's at home (sometimes for more than 12 hours). She is mindful of the pooping corner during the day most of the time, but as soon as she is let out of the confined premises when I'm home, she does her act at other favourite corners in the house ! Also, I realised that the only time she manages to control her pooping act is when there are guests in the house and when in the car. As for the frequency of pooping, I'm sure there must be at least 4 times throughout 24 hours, its easy to predict the after meal attempts, but the morning ones prior to awakening are the most challenging & waking up at 4am will "kill" my day at work definitely. Haha.. who's being adopted by Teddy now ? :p

KSH, I'm sure you will find the best solution for your Maltese, may it be re-homing her or adjusting your lifestyle to adapt. Just be patient, but sharing your thoughts in this thread sure helps eh ?

Well, I hope you can get Teddy trained very soon. Patience and persistence pays off. I swear my dog was house trained at one point!

Otherwise, I am so sorry for your thread getting derailed.

I talked to my Mom tonight, and she is seriously considering taking my little girl.

[Morphine]

No worries KSH! Cool ! If you mom takes her, you can still pamper her whenever you pop over there ! In fact, that's what I did with "Snowy" (yes, the white one), she is really a handful too difficult for me, hence, she is in aunt's hands now, & Teddy gets to have her weekly sibling socialisation; win-win situation :p

[CyclChyk]

KSH - have you considered using a childgate and putting your baby in the bathroom at night? Then you could leave a pottie pad out for her to get used to.

I have a chihuahua. And leaving him in the crate all day was a bad idea. No way can a dog that small hold it that long. Plus the retaliation he inflicted on us when we left him out of it at night was not pretty. I cozied up the bathroom as his room while we were not home and it actually turned out to be a great thing. (we lived in an apartment at the time that did not allow dogs. We had to sneak him outside in a duffle bag and drive him off the property for a walk. The first time his feet ever touched grass he was about 6 months old. My lord what a sight that was. He was afraid to touch it! Now he sleeps outside like a hound dog. Comes in the doggie door only when food is involved... )

He didn't pick up on the paper training right away, but I read up on the proper way to do it (in a library - didn't have to buy the book) and it worked!

I could never imagine giving one of my dogs away. Not even to family. But for me, they are my kids. So I tend to love them a little more than the average person.

KSH - you seem like a good mom. I know you will make sure your baby is well taken care of.

[Trek420]

My dog was an adult when I got her, aprox 9 mo - 1 1/2 old. She was house trained, someowhat trained-trained and fixed when I got her.

Good news about an adult dog is you know that dog you're going to get.

Bad news is you miss the puppy period where you get to "form" the dog you're gonna get. Especially when I see a pup I wish I'd seen her then.

Good news again is....I missed the puppy period. :p Yes I would have to get up in the middle of the night, potty training etc.

It's hard to be a "single parent of a dog" I know, I'm sorry that it's difficult for you.

I am not a dog trainer but a couple things stand out. The long play times for one when you get home, a puppy has a pretty short attention span.

I read that at first 10-15 minute training times are best. Mutiple times perhaps but end on a high note (success!) and keep it short for the little pup.

And 12 hours in a crate is a long time for any dog I think.

Mae is crate trained but I never leave her in longer than 4 hours. Once it ended up being 8 hours but that's rare. I make sure she's been exercised, fed, had water and gotten to go before she's in.

I'm very lucky to have found a neighbor who walks Mae twice a week. I trust her and Mae just loves her.

I have read that letting the dog sleep in the bedroom helps to bond the dog to you. Mae is not allowed on the bed itself or any furniture, but she sleeps in her own bed on the floor or sometimes in her crate. For dogs I read that even the smells and sounds that we might ignore (well, snoring we don't ignore) help her feel bonded with me (her pack). We spend so much time away from our pets and this doesn't make up for it but can help.

[Aggie_Ama]

I talked to my Mom tonight, and she is seriously considering taking my little girl.


Great news! I hope that works out. Then you *know* she is in good hands and you can visit her.

Morphine- Good luck with Teddy. One thing no one mentioned is Schnauzers are just stubborn little gals. I have two and they are so head strong, but they are such love bugs. Hang in there, Teddy will catch on and come around.

[Morphine]

Stubborn & strong-headed character eh :( ... tell me about it ! the moment Teddy realised she committed the poop act at the wrong place, she was quick enough to turn her head away from me when I stared at her :p

[CyclChyk]

Morphine thats not being stubborn! Thats her being submissive to your ALPHA role. Always make her be the first to look away. Once YOU become the first to look away she will think she is the alpha over you.

[Aggie_Ama]

Stubborn & strong-headed character eh :( ... tell me about it ! the moment Teddy realised she committed the poop act at the wrong place, she was quick enough to turn her head away from me when I stared at her :p


Nope! My little stubborn gals will look at me while they are committing the act. I will be scolding them and they just look at me like "Well I did it, whatcha gonna do Mom?" No remorse, that usually gets people convicted of the crime. :p

[doc]

I agree with what everyone else said, especially crate training. I also have heard success with the bell. But one more idea to add:

Whenever the puppy is out of the crate, have her on a normal length leash attached to you. That way she is never out of sight and you will have the opportunity to scold when you catch her in the act. Even better, you will notice she's giving signs before it happens and have the opportunity to rush her outside.