Having babies

[Puffin]

Apologies to any of you who have already approached this subject many moons ago, but I'm new to the forum and thought I'd venture what is probably an old question with you guys.
So: How do I have babies and keep up the biking?
We plan to start a family next year - well, one day we do, one day we don't. DH earns way more than me and is much more of a bike enthusiast, so I'll be spending a lot more time at home than him. Obviously, I'll also have the pregnancy to get through.
The only example I have is sister-in-law, who never had a life before the baby and now can only talk about how many peas he's eaten today and has NEVER in nearly 2 years been apart from the thing... NOT encouraging.
So a) I want to know how I can stay bike fit throughout pregnancy, b) how will we be able to get out an ride when burdened with micro humans, c) How on earth willl I cope with the jealousy of being the one who's left behind holding the baby :confused:

[mimitabby]

I was an avid horseback rider before I had babies and worked horses until the day before I had my first son. Since I also had to work, there was not enough time for kids work and horses. The horses had to go. Like many people, the constraints of being a working mother affected my health adversely.
YOu too will be thrilled with the way your babies spit their peas out. If you're not, I'd worry abuot your mothering skills.

Good luck. I hope you have more flexibility in your schedule than I did.
But the good news is that even at the age of 50+ you can get your health back, i did!

[KnottedYet]

Being left behind with the little critter is a killer. Until they are able to hold their heads up and maintain a sit, though, you can't be putting them in a trailer.

We had a trailer, fabulous invention.

You can ride while preggers until you can't.... how's that for evasive answering? Tell your OB you ride, they'll let you know what they think at each stage.

[DDH]

Well, not to be a negative or anything, but doesn't sound to me like you are really ready to have a child. If you have to refer to your niece or nephew as the thing, or are already worried about jealousy from being left at home, I wouldn't suggest having a baby.
Having a child is a sacrafice on the part of mother and father. You will not be able to do the things that you want to do all the time.
When we had our son, we got a trailor and pulled him around until he got to heavy. Once he was too heavy, we kind of put the bikes away. He wasn't old enough to keep up and it would have been dangerous. Then between work both of us working and life in general we just didn't get to ride. We have since taken it back up again. He can go now if he wants but he is also old enough to stay home for an hour or two while we go.
There are many ways to keep in shape while pregnant and after besides bike riding that you can do and still have a baby. You can also, see if someone you can trust is around if they will watch the baby while you bike. Or hubby and you can take turns. There are always ways to work things out if you want it bad enough.
I just hate to see you have a baby if you are already feeling like a child would tie you down and make you resentful.

[snapdragen]

A woman in my bike club rode up to the day she delivered. Now she and hubby take turns towing the trailer, they've got two boys.

If you're thinking having a child is more of a burden than a pleasure, I don't think you're ready to have one of your own.

[fixedgeargirl]

how will we be able to get out an ride when burdened with micro humans, :

If you're already considering a child a burden, you're not in a good place to be a parent. When you can get excited about the challenge of incorporating a new life into your own and finding creative ways to share your passion with your pride and joy, you're ready.


c) How on earth willl I cope with the jealousy of being the one who's left behind holding the baby :confused:

Be an adult, suck it up. It's good practice for teaching your kids the tough lessons of handling disappointment. I missed a marvelous season of mtb'ing my son's first summer. You know what, it was only one summer of the many that have made up my life. It sucked hearing my friends' stories of glorious rides. In the six years since, I've returned to participating in those stories. One season is really a blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things.

[Puffin]

I admit my first post did sound really negative. Just so you get the right impression of me - I am Toby's (the "thing"'s) favourite person (other than Mummy of course). Being negative about babies is just a front to hide my fears!
We managed to get pregnant by mistake in August and after the initial shock it was a wonderful feeling. I was horribly disappointed when I had a mc just a few days after testing positive. DH did not understand my sadness, but I know he too will be a great parent when it actually happens.
I am relieved to hear that you can keep biking through pregnancy. I'm not sure DH would allow me to, though (I always fall off :p ).
Maybe we should consider hiking in stead of biking after birth - how soon can babies sit in those cool baby back packs?
Can we not just get a sitter in every Sunday morning, while we go out together?
Does anyone have any great scheduling tips for exercise during the early months/years?
Sorry to have sounded so MEAN!
Em

[paigette]

Geez, I don't want kids (like, ever) and I don't even have the apparent distain that you seem to have for them! I agree with the other poster's that it seems you are not ready.

Maybe start with a dog & see how you can handle that first?

Check out http://decafplease.blogspot.com/, she's a blogger I've read forever, currently pregnant, read through her archives & she discusses her biking/running/swimming during the time.

P.S. sorry about the mc

[Puffin]

I think there may be a language problem going on here... Any English girls get my wry sense of humour???? Help!

[Triskeliongirl]

Obviously you'll have to ask your doctor, but basically now they are advising women that if they were active before pregnency, its OK to maintain that activity during. But specific recommendations in terms of heart rate zones, etc. should come from your doc. When our kids were young, we had those seats that fit on the back of our bikes, but I think the trailers they make now are safer. A couple in our club is pregnant now, and they have been exclusively riding their tandem, so she can take it easier. They already have their 'chariot' (i.e. trailer) on order. I also biked once with 2 couples, where the guys both pulled the kids on baby trailers (real racer types) which slowed them down just enough to ride with their wives and the rest of us 'girls'. Yes, you'll have to wait until the baby can support his/her head, but until then you can also take turns. Just cuz you have to bear the child doesn't mean you shouldn't get bike time. I would get up early and exercise while my babies and husband were still sleeping before work when my kids were really young. I would also do exercise videos at night when they were sleeping.

[Puffin]

Triskelion - good ideas, thanks!

[Kano]

Donna, I have to admit, I had the same reaction!

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that just about every mom here will agree with me: I only THOUGHT I was ready for motherhood. I had NO idea what I was getting into! :eek:

It's not that we have no lives, it's that life takes on a whole different focus. Especially for us moms who are fortunate enough to be able to stay home with our little ones. Yes, it sounds a little weird, but there's just nothing to compare to the number of peas eaten in one sitting -- and sadly, no one in the world cares as much as they should about how many peas our little ones have downed! Moms at work are wondering how many peas their little ones are eating for lunch and wishing they were there to count, and we moms who are so priveleged are feeling a little sad for them...

We also get excited about pee in the potty rather than in the diaper, and as a mom, I can tell you, I only thought I'd lived until the other went into the potty on a regular basis!

Kids kind of overwhelm and define our existence for a lot of years. If they're not what we're doing right now, they're the wall paper on our desktop, laptop, cell phones, etc. You could say it gets better, since we gain independence as they do, but the MOMENT they need something, even when they're 25, the whole rest of the world loses importance again.

And then we have grandkids.

It starts all over again, but it's much more fun the second time around!

Karen in Boise

[xeney]

YOu too will be thrilled with the way your babies spit their peas out. If you're not, I'd worry about your mothering skills.

Oh, I don't agree with that. My mom had two babies, eleven grandkids, and four older stepkids, and she has never been interested in peas. I have nieces and nephews who are not much younger than I am, and I can clearly remember my mom rolling her eyes and griping that she wished my sister-in-law would stop talking about the baby's bowel movements, because those weren't even interesting when it was your own baby.

My mom went back to work when I was about six months old, and she continued to hike and camp and do the stuff she had done before, and we went along in a backpack ... I went on my first deer hunting trip when I was three months old. We weren't neglected at all but as the two youngest of six, we were very much expected to fit into the family, not have the rest of the family change to fit around us. And nobody ever went gaga over the way I spit up my peas, and I managed to turn out okay.

I think that is how bigger families used to work, and it's a much more recent thing that babies become the sole focus of everybody's life. My mom has been telling me this for years: just because you don't really like babies doesn't mean you won't like having kids. She still doesn't especially like babies, but she is the best grandma ever once the kids are old enough to care.

[Puffin]

Xeney, I could hug you! Isn't it funny how you only listen when someone says something you want to hear?:p

[kbs]

Hi there,

thought about spinning? I managed to keep that up once my bump got too big to MTB as it's rather more up right, and started again 6 weeks after birth. Before that you just don't want to be getting on a saddle, I can tell you :p Sorry I've only scanned the pps, but a word of warning - whilst preg. you get much more out of breath - more blood to push around, limited space for your lungs.

When I first found out we were having a baby I cried, even more when I realized that our planned transalp would take place when I was 8 mo, and so would be out of the question. I live in a place where just about everyone bikes, bikers ride through with their back packs and I turn a light shade of green with envy.

Now the micro human is 1, she's climbing up my leg trying to get me off the computer, she's only let me ride around 150 mile the whole summer, but... hey it's just one season, by next season she'll be able to stay with Grandma, or I can dump her on friends and get at least one good ride in a week. Maybe I'll even team up with some other girlfriends and let our husbands look after the rugrats.

It's a sacrifice, but it's so worth it, believe me. I had such ambivalent feelings towards my daughter until I actually held her, and now being woken up by a snotty kiss and baby babble makes everything worth it. The only question I found helped was do you want to be 50 and not have kids? Well, there are always 500 good reasons why now is not the right time to start...

HTH

[Triskeliongirl]

And I forgot to mention that when they are older you might have a new training partner! Lots of folks show up for club rides with a kid on the back f a tandem, and I've had friends that toured with kids and double tandems.

[Adventure Girl]

Isn't it funny how you only listen when someone says something you want to hear?:pThis speaks volumes.

[mimitabby]

I am not one of those people who likes other people's babies either. But mine were mine. And I Knew that they were my responsibility from day one, and until they were able to do for themselves, I made many sacrifices for them. It was a no brainer. You can't do kids justice if you're not there for them.
I had daycare, I had to go back to work when they were 3 months old, both of them. And I didn't brag about their bowel movements, you're missing the point on that. You should fall in love with your children, and then their achievements will become very important.

If you're feeling resentments you're not ready. When we had kids, i too was clueless. TOTALLY clueless, but just like a mamma cat, i figured it out quick.

We got high once when my first son was about a year old. What a disaster that was. you just can't be a good mom and be half-conscious. That was a learning experience, and I never did it again.

Your children are only small for a very short time. Then they grow up. How do you want to raise them? Do you remember how it was for you? (I sure did, and I planned on not repeating history). I have spoken to some who have regretted the lack of attention they gave to their children. No one has ever regretted (to me) the real-time they gave to their children, when their children were children.

[kbs]

I don't think still riding necesarrily means you give your children a lack of attention. I know for me the hour a day I got to go spinning was a life saver, a little time for myself, after all I was on call 23hrs of the day and it meant that I was a whole lot happier about those 23 hrs.

Forgot to mention before, lots of people use those trailer things but I HATE going uphill with them, they kind of pull back on you in a chuggy way. Really irritated me, but maybe it was just the one we borrowed. Now bought a Britax Jockey seat and am very happy with it. Works once the baby reaches 9 kilos, she's got her little helmet and away we go. More than about 2 hrs is out of the question, but it's better than nothing.

Hiking is great particularly when they're tiny. The back packs only work once they can sit alone (around 6 months) but try a sling like one of these http://www.hoppediz.de/EN/index.htm
get one anyway, keeps babies much happier than pushchairs!

[Trekhawk]

You can manage to exercise and have kids but you just need to plan a little and be flexible (take each day as it comes). I did not cycle when my children were super little but I did swim. The pool near our house opened at five so I would get up and be at the pool when it opened and swim for an hour. This way I was back before my husband left for work.

I love being a Mum but before I had kids you would not have said I was a kid person. People I knew were shocked when I said I was pregnant they told me hey I didnt even know you liked kids, but here I am three kids later and loving it. You learn to be adaptable and if you get to ride thats great and if somedays you cant well you learn not to knock yourself up about it.
I have been cursed and blessed in the husband department. Cursed because he goes away a lot and that makes getting out for a ride even harder and blessed because when he is here he volunteers to look after the boys so I can go to rides that are not always close to home.

Children change your life that is sure but for me it was a change to a fuller richer and sometimes a tad crazier life.:D

[margo49]

Main advice about children: It is *biology*; so make sure the other half is going to maximise your genetic potential. Every sentient female biological entity on the planet goes for the male that looks the best of the herd, flock, bunch.

Don't get too far ahead of yourself. Wait and listen.
All the time we women are changing and developing new interests and deepening existing ones and adjusting the balances and prolortions.In pregnancy ditto but squared!
As you progress in the pregnancy and give birth (safely and in good time) and in the following years (till you die, basically); you will find your body and mind and heart will tell you what and how much you want to do with your child(ren). What choices, sacrifices and compromises you will make you will make in Real Time, hopefully in consultation with Baby's father.

You may find yourself surprised how it all turns out (I did). In a good way.
Health and happiness to you in this Adventure of adventures

[Dianyla]

I think it's a bit harsh to presume that just because someone fully grasps the gravity of what mothering entails that this means they are too selfish to be a parent. Plenty of other folks just launch right into it and only find out when it's too late that it has completely taken over their life.

Calling childrearing a burden is calling a spade a spade. The key point is that the burden should be worth it to the people who are carrying it. Also, it should be shared between both parents in a way that is acceptable to both parties.

One of my sisters is a SAHM with 6 chilluns and a husband who travels a lot and brings home lots of bacon. She is quite content with shouldering 95% of the childrearing load. For my personality, I know that being in a situation like hers would cause me to feel resentful and depressed. I'd probably gnaw my own arm off to escape a situation like hers! :rolleyes:

Until I get to a stage in life with a partner that is willing to divvy up this burden in a way that works well for both of us, I won't consider intentionally conceiving and bearing children.

[Bikingmomof3]

Wow, there have been some splendid replies to your post already.
I do understand your humour, yet do sense uncertainty. There is nothing wrong with being uncertain. it is best to question just how badly do you and your DH want a child. To examine whether or not you both are prepared to change/adjust to accomodate a new baby.

I was not a biker when I became pregnant with my first child, however I did enjoy many other activities. I was not permitted to exercise during my pregnancies, sometimes things just do not work out as planned. That being said, I was more concerned about my growing child than I was about my previous activities. 2nd pregnancy I spent in hospital the entire time. My only concerns were my 1 year old and keeping my twins alive inside me. Once my children were born, there was not a lot of "me" time, but looking back, I did not think a thing of it. My baby (then babies) came first and foremost. There is a bond that is very difficult to put into words. When my twins were born I had two premature babies and a 2 year old. I spent all my time in hospital. When they were able to come home we were not allowed to expose them to too my germs. Very long story shortened, the first 4 years as a mother, I focused mainly on that, being the best mum I could be. My children are now young teens and I am out cycling, running, swimming, yet I still cannot just take off on an all day ride unless the boys come along.
I plan to run some marathons and participate in some centuries this coming summer, the boys will need to be there. I cannot/will not travel and leave them home to their own devices, they are not old enough.

Having children does impact life. For the worse? Absolutely not! Having children just changes priorities and availability.
Many cycle/spin/run through their pregnancy. I am not qualified to give advice on this, though I do know there are several threads on exercising throughout pregnancy.

Please give each response careful thought. Children are wonderful indeed, but your life will change.

[mimitabby]

Please give each response careful thought. Children are wonderful indeed, but your life will change.


Boy, you said it in a nutshell. For me, it was a total transformation from "all about me" to becoming a mother bear..

:D

[margo49]

Wow, there have been some splendid replies to your post already.
IHaving children does impact life. For the worse? Absolutely not! Having children just changes priorities and availability.

Please give each response careful thought. Children are wonderful indeed, but your life will change.

Yeah, although I would say *AND* (not but) your life will change.

All sorts of things "change your life" (partner(s), jobs, money or lack of, health or illness.
And a lot of those things we don't (or can't) examine all the pro's, con's and implications beforehand.
But we go through them and move (limp, stagger,blunder,meander) on to a New Normal in an equally Meaningful Life.

I have found myself drinking myself senseless a few times a year with being a mother; but I would be finding myself drinking myself senseless a few times a year whatever. (Substitute your own poison/self destructive activity).

[horsemom]

I totally understood your humor. I have been a mother for 22 years and still talk like that sometimes--and my well adjusted grown son smiles when I refer to him as "that PITA" - he knows he has always been the center of my world.

As someone else said, even if you are clueless at the onset, like a mother cat, you figure it out. Having a child was the best and most important thing I ever did. If I was the regretting type, I would only regret not having more.

That said, it is a huge adjustment. I was a 23 year old nationally ranked equestrian when I had my son, and it took many sacrifices of my career to raise him. I would do it all over again in spades.

As far as finding time for myself (I was a stay at home mom.) I found another rider with a child the same age, and traded riding time. She watched mine and I watched hers while the other rode. Also important is finding time to be alone and letting dad spend time alone with the kiddo. I had a standing date with a girlfriend to ride every wednesday evening in the summer, and dad fed, bathed and put to bed. It was a good time for all.

Take the time to be alone with your husband also. By all means, hire a sitter and get out biking together. You may have to hike more at certain stages of development--the front packs are great for awhile, then switch to the backpack, then the bike trailer, then a good stroller, then put on your roller skates and try to keep up!!

I hauled my child all over with me--he went to his first endurance ride (camping and all day outside in the woods) when he was three weeks old. I handed my horse off to the sitter and nursed him at the vet checks! He teethed on a stethoscope while laying in a blanket in a wheelbarrow while I did chores, and still he grew up knowing how to entertain himself, self confident and socially adept.

If you are considering a child, by all means, do it, and cherish it--there is no love deeper- it is an interesting twist to life when it happens. I am only 46, but looking forward to grandbabies someday.

Laura

[Puffin]

Wow! Babies do stir up a lot of emotion. I hope i haven't offended anyone and thank EVERYONE for sharing their thoughts.

I am in my early thirties and do feel the clock ticking and i can't bear the thought of growing old without offspring around me. Funnily enough I look forward to the 9 months of pregnancy because I'm fascinated by the magic of creating a new life (boy, am i in for a shock!)
Being tied to the house with screaming babies does scare me, but i do appreciate that the first nine months will only serve to create the bond that will help me get through those sleepless nights.
i do worry about the resentment at hubbie and others going out without me, but I think now I can see that it's only a temporary situation - a change like all changes in life (as one of you so brilliantly put it). We will just have to find new ways of having adventures. I look forward to introducing one or more new humans to the pleasures of an active life...
Meanwhile, we are planning Scotland, Alps and Pyrenees next year - all before I get pregnant!!! I should be sick of biking by then ;)

Also, I guess it may simply never happen - shouldn't complain about my chicks before they've even hatched.

Em

[AllezGirl]

You won't be tied to the house! There are all kinds of contraptions for hauling your kid around...I know, I've used them all! I took my kid EVERYWHERE with me (kinda had to, I've always been a single mom) and I wouldn't change a thing. Exposing him to so many different experiences from a young age really fostered his sense of adventure!

[HappyAnika]

I got your humor too.

Regarding the whole interest in peas thing, I think its like dogs. (Yes, I'm one of those annoying non-mothers who can always draw a comparison between children and dogs). I have friends, maybe two, that don't really care for dogs. I know this, and I know that they are bored if I start talking about my dogs, so I don't it. I save my dog talk for all of my other friends who have dogs and/or love dogs and they get excited when I tell them about a cute new habit one of my girls developed, or they are genuinely concerned if one of my pooches is sick. The point is to share the things that are important to you with other people who find the same things important.

DH and I are in the planning stages for getting pregnant next year. Before we seriously started talking about it, I already began planning for centuries and long rides next year. Now I realize that if all goes well on the conceiving front, I won't be able to do those things next year. But I will likely get to do them the following year, its a small price to pay for starting a family. As far as rides when we have a baby, DH and I plan to take turns babysitting while the other one rides (I'm not going to be the one always left behind holding the baby, I need play time too). I imagine we can find a friend or neighbor to watch the little one for a few hours if we both want to go out. And what about sitting swaps? I know when I was little my mom belonged to a sitting exchange group with other moms where they traded hours of babysitting, I'm assuming this sort of thing still goes on. I've already been scoping out mommy groups and hope to form a new social and support network as a mother. Once you become a mother, you'll meet other mothers with similar issues and they may have more solutions you haven't thought of yet. If riding is really important to you, you'll find a way to make it work. Good luck in trying, and I'm so sorry to hear about your mc.

[DDH]

I don't think you offended anyone. I am glad to know that you were being humorous, but even if you weren't, everyone is entitled to their own feelings and opinions.
I bet you won't be as tied down to the house as you think you might. It's amazing the things they have now days to be able to accomdate everyone's hobbies and still have children. Who knows what neat new thing they might have by the time you have a child.

I do get your humor now that I know you were being that way. I call mine a brat all the time and he knows I say it with all the love in my heart. I never say it except in humor. Guess that makes the difference. Hope I haven't scarred him for life. :eek:

[HappyAnika]

Ok, I was thinking about this some more, and here's what bugs me, you keep talking about how your husband will get to go riding but not you. Its just as much your husband's baby as yours, so why should all the responsibility of caring for the child fall on you? It shouldn't! (Even if you plan to breastfeed, they have pumps so you can always have milk available).

Ok, here I go again with the dogs. This is before we were even engaged, we got our lab puppy at 7 weeks old, our other dog was 5 then. The puppy slept in a crate at night in our bedroom and had to get up once or twice every night to go outside and do her business. I'm a heavy sleeper and I hate to be bothered with getting up. DH was so wonderful about taking the puppy out every single night, in December and January in the freezing cold for her to pee. I knew then that he was perfect for being the father of my children. :)

Now I know that lots of women make the choice to become single mothers and my hats off to them. I don't think I could do it alone. I'm all about sharing responsibilities between us. Even if you are going to be a SAHM since your husband earns more, you should feel entitled to some personal time away from the baby, meanwhile he needs some bonding time with the baby, so it all works out. Have you talked about this with your husband?

[Tuckervill]

But we go through them and move (limp, stagger,blunder,meander) on to a New Normal in an equally Meaningful Life.

Sometimes we even sail.

Karen

[LBTC]

When we were younger and trying to decide if kids were the right thing for us....we listened to everyone's arguments and opinions about whether we "should" have kids and we determined that there is no unselfish reason to *not* have kids but there is also no unselfish reasont *to* have kids.

Once we go that out of the way, it was a lot easier for us to really listen to what our hearts were saying. And both of our hearts (eventually) said a resounding NO we don't want kids. Even with the pressure of friends having kids and wanting our kids to all go to school together, etc, etc, etc. It's just not right for us, and I still feel that no-one should assume that it's the next thing in life (whether you're thinking adventure or responsibility, it just doesn't have to be next).

We've both looked at the issue from all sorts of angles and know that being parents to human children (we have 4 furry four-legged kids already), is just not something we *want*. And it's not that we don't like all kids (although some I can't imagine having to be around all of the time!!)...we just spent an inordinate amount of time and money decorating our yard and buying way too much candy for the kids for Halloween and wholly there sure were some cute ones!

The only acceptable reason to do anything, ever, is because you *want* to.

Okay, now that that's out of the way, if it really is something you want to do, you will definitely find the way to do the other things, like riding, that you want to do, too. If you want it, the fear and worry will dissolve, and you find every solution you need. I just really hope that your DH and you both want the same thing and both have the same expectations going into it. Talk with him. Often. Deeply. Sort it all out. Listen to your heart. Then dive right in, whichever way you go!

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

[margo49]

Motivation? I will say it again.

This is biology and a basic drive.We are talking about carrying on the species. Not love (whatever that is), togetherness, next steps in development of self or realtionship...reproduction of the genes (hopefully the best ones). That is why the doe looks for the buck with the best set of antlers or the lady mountain goat looks for the gentleman mountain goat that butts the other ones off the edge of the cliff.
We human animals should not think we should be so different. We are still animals when it comes to this. Go for someone who will maximize your genetic potential. Trust me, if you ask yourself this question your deepest self will answer *immmediately*. And if you have to *ask* your deepest self then he is not the one.

[LBTC]

Margo, you make a good point, about the biology of it, and maximizing genetics. And it's one of the many reasons we decided not to have kids. My gene pool is shallow to say the least, and DH's isn't much better. We'd have had some wonder kid with weird allergies that was way too short, but the little fart would have been very opinionated! hahahaha
~T~

[Puffin]

Thanks for that image!
I have often thought that DH and I should be having lots of kids to offset all the Chavs (UK reference) who are having babies around us. Don't we want to fill the world with healthy and intelligent people who share our values?
But this may well be a whole new thread beginning!
It reminds me of the recent research into what type of men women are attracted to at their time of ovulation as opposed to others days in the month. There seems to be a contradiction between the type of man who makes a good long term partner (earning and caring) and that who will produce strong offspring (testosterone).
I'm sure having both a fit and intelligent husband should carry a lot of weight in favour of having children. But I don't think it's enough to justify personal sacrifices if I decide I don't want to make them :o

[xeney]

Huh. I thought "chav" was sort of a counterpart to "ghetto" or "white trash," and I think that's about the most offensive reason for having babies that I've ever heard.

[Puffin]

SIGH


Dear All,
Do you know what Chav means in England? If you did, you would laugh at my comments not be upset or insulted.
I am a very tolerant person, who cares about all people, and my judgement is based on their actions and words, rather than colour of skin, health or wealth. I have friends from all backgrounds, who enjoy things from drinking beer to classic motorbikes. I do draw the line at antisocial behaviour like vandalism and foul-mouthing elderly people. I think that my sister is a bit of a Chav sometimes, and my husband calls me a Pikey because I take furniture out of skips to restore it for our house. I am also a manic-depressive so not very NORMAL to many.
I realise I have been in England so long that I am even beginning to use their same dry language.
I remember how difficult I found getting to know the English, but after a while you realise there's a warm glow inside. Their heart's in the right place, as one would say.
My brother never made it past that stage and moved to Thailand.

Emily

ps I am disappointed at the prudishness of this forum

[paigette]

ps I am disappointed at the prudishness of this forum


LOL, this site is ANYTHING but prudish. The issue here appears to be a communication/wording area. Just remember, this is a primarily(NOT ALL) American site, so some foreign humor will be lost on us. Not only that, but it is also a message board, which I always find are just TERRIBLE for expressing a sarcastic wit.

[Puffin]

Maybe I ought to use more Smilies in my messages so people could gather the tone of writing.
Otherwise I am going to have to be constantly apologising for being devil's advocate, painting a different picture, telling the other side of the story...
:rolleyes:

[wannaduacentury]

Hi Emily, I guess as far as having kids, make sure both of you are ready, if one of you is not, or both, then postpone for awhile. If the bio clock is ticking, well you may have to make a quicker choice, but if you do decide to have kids, make sure it what you both want so the child can have the best possible life. Your ? reminds of an American show called Frasier where Niles wants to be a dad and carries around this 5 lbs flour sack in a cuddly and pretends it's a baby, including falling into a tub of water, drying by the fireplace to catch on fire, then Eddy the jack russell destroys it. A good lesson I say. I also watch a lot of BBC shows(many on dvd) and some of the language quirks I miss and some I have to listen carefully to get their meaning. I guess you really do get into a culture if you stay for awhile. Jennifer

[paigette]

Well, on another board that, if I type something that I think people will see as mean, I generally put ((SARCASM)) after it. Just helps in others translation & takes 2 seconds to do.

[Puffin]

I LOVE :eek: Frazier!
When we went to Seattle last year, I looked everywhere for some Frazier parphenalia (spelling?) but couldn't find anything.

[Dianyla]

I have no opinion on the offensiveness of the term chav, but I still think it's at least a wee bit arrogant to want children for the purpose of outnumbering another group of people.

It doesn't matter whether "those other people" are different based on socioeconomic class, religion, ethnicity, or perceived intelligence. No matter how you slice or dice it, that statement means that you think your kind of people are better than those kind of people, therefore more of you ought to exist than more of them.

Just my $0.02.

[Puffin]

Woah there! I never said I wanted to have babies to outnumber another type of person/class, etc. I have TOTALLY been misinterpreted. It was a tongue in cheek comment about having children to populate the world with more people like me & my husband...Survival of the fittest - HELLO? Anyone heard of the Devil's Advocate?
If you read the previous post it was also tongue in cheek about not wanting babies to turn out as a combination of their particular genes. No one is saying that they are better than anyone else
Besides, the CHAV reference is also being completely misconstrued. It's not about a PEOPLE, its about a behaviour, which I happen to have an opinion on.
JEEZ:(

[Dianyla]

I know that you were joking. My point is that I still think the remark is offensive, sarcasm or not.

[paigette]

HELLO? Anyone heard of the Devil's Advocate?

You do realize that Devil's Advocate means a person who takes the worse side of an argument just for the sake of arguing....right?

Sarcasm is one thing, creating discourse just for the heck of it, is another.

[Puffin]

I give up.
Thanks to all who did offer some kind advice earlier.
I have been bullied off the page.

[Hammer02]

Some of you are wrapped waaaaay too tight.

:rolleyes:

[Crankin]

Wow, I have never ventured into this area of the forum. I'm only going to comment on the having babies part; But I do agree, lighten up a bit, everyone.
I was one of those weird mothers who never felt guilty, never gave up a whole lot in my life, and managed to raise 2 wonderful now grown up sons. My children were very much planned and wanted after an initial phase where my husband was one step away from the vasectomy clinic. I went back to work after 6 weeks with the first and my husband stayed home with him while he finished school (he had sold his business, so we lived on that $). My husband went back to work when he was 8 months old, coinciding nicely with my summer break. I had no friends with babies at that time, except some people at work, but not really close friends. I didn't ride then, but I did spend a considerable amount of time at the gym. I either went at 5:30 in the morning, or right after work, and kept my kids in daycare until 5 or so, when most people are just getting out of work. My husband did the AM shift and I picked them up. When he traveled, it was a little harder, but eventually we could afford a nanny who came to our house every day. I had son #2 when the oldest was 2 and half. I had 2 kids in diapers (that sucked) for a couple of months. But in the interim I had started going to a playgroup during the summer and several other moms with kids the same age as mine. I had a bad attitude toward them at first, but they eventually became my closest friends. I was always happy though when summer ended and I could talk to people about other things (i.e., the peas issue). Yes, I am sure I was a little guilty of obsessing on my kids, but not like some people I see. During all of this, i was working as a teacher, my husband traveled about 80% of the time on business, and i was also teaching aerobics at a gym, on the board of the JCC, and teaching Hebrew School. I had a lot of support from various friends, babysitters, etc. My husband and I went out almost every Saturday night, and kept doing the same social things we had always done. As my kids got older and we moved to MA, away from all of our great support in AZ, we started doing a lot more activities with the kids. I actually enjoyed them more every year. I will be honest, they were cute babies, but every year just got better. So yes, my life changed, but not enough for me to complain all of the time. We only allowed them to do one activity at a time (plus religious school which was a 2 day a week commitment) and my kids actually spent a lot of time playing outside in the woods (a novel idea to many parents of my students!). This kept a lot of the stress down.I had one friend who used to feed her kids dinner in the car, schlepping them from one activity to another. I swore i would never come to that! We gave our kids a lot of freedom, like going into Boston or Cambridge on the train when they were 14-15 and they went to overnight camp from age 8 up (a very frugal Audubon camp). Now they are actually my friends, at ages 21 and 24 and I don't regret anything we did.
So.... don't let anyone try to instill their vision of motherhood on you. There's more than one way to be a good mom.

[Maureen Valley]

Robyn...a voice of reason. Thank you.....and alot of you made sense responding to this thread. Forgive me...this is gonna be long.

As for the business of biking...staying in shape while pregnant...whatever....I only know that your body holds you hostage during a pregnancy. Forget life as you knew it. It's a fabulous time of life and you will (might?) feel like a million bucks and ride like the wind till you get too big and the leg pains get too severe to climb on your bike. Remember the sheer pressure ladies? You urinate constantly....that baby takes up as much room as he wants....and your vital organs end up damn near down hear your knees. Biking? I think not at this point.

Oh, the other hand....I won't whitewash it....you might have the pregnancy from hell. Asking others is good therapy and you'll get as many ideas as there are peas in a package of Green Giant...(hope you're smiling) but you have no idea till you get there. Now...once the baby is born....life is pretty much over as you knew it. I didn't read a book for 5 years due to the interruptions and the endless distractions of dealing with a toddler whose world is totally narcisstic. Then...there's the birth thing. Gee...no one really prepares you for that one. They tell you that you'll forget. Uh huh.....right. You'll be discussing episiotomy scars over lunch.

But I'm rambling about something I haven't experienced in 41 years. Take it for what it's worth.

What the instigator of this thread doesn't know yet, is that every wink...breath...pea ingestion...bowel movement....and goo that your baby makes will have you enthralled. Don't need to be cool about it...it's called motherhood.

Hugs to all,
Maureen
;)

[salsabike]

I think your first post asks questions that a gazillion women have asked--out loud or just to themselves--and they are totally understandable questions. And I would like to caution people about assuming nuances and connotations from electronic posts. We all already know this. Without hearing voice tones, seeing facial expressions, and having all of the other non-print communication aids we rely on, this is not really the place to decide that you know the poster well enough to reprove her for things she may or may not be saying. Think back to your own emails, posts, etc., and whether you would like them to be used to judge your full character...

I'm glad there were plenty of posters here who answered your questions with the understanding and honesty they deserve. Good for you for being honest enough to ask them.