New to spinning, knee pain

[norab]

Just a quick question to you all. I just taking spinning class at my local gym. I have gone three times and first time halfway thru started having pain on my upper outer side of knee. I actually had a bit of pain for over three days and it was difficult for me to bend that knee.
I tried again when I felt better and specifically told the instructer what had happened and asked for help setting up my bike correctly. Pain again halfway thru mostly when standing. This time I eased up as soon as I felt it so its not as bad. I was very careful with my form and am just wondering if it does have something to do with bike set up or am I just not meant to do this work out?:( I really enjoyed it and would hate to stop.
By the way Im 35 yrs old and pretty fit. Lots of running and weights. Any help?
Thanks so much!

[Raindrop]

Did your instructor attempt to correct your set-up? If so...and it still didn't work, 1)maybe your instructor is not knowledgable enough on correct set ups...and in that case, try another class with a different instructor, or 2), were you using really high resistance levels or, little to no resistance and high cadences? It could be that you are working at levels that are causing too much stress on your knees due to the above mentioned issues.

Another problem could result from whether you use clip in or not. Oftentimes the bikes have clips that are set too tight and if your bike shoes don't allow for some float, you knees will be in a precarious position.

I would ask your instructor for another look at your set-up (and show up early enough for them to give you some extra attention).

I hope you get this resolved.

[spin legs]

Hey Raindrop, How do you adjust the float on the clip on the bike? I have a very hard time clipping out. I noticed a lot of the participants do as well. These are new bikes.
spin legs

[Kathi]

How tall are you? Unless things have changed recently, spin bikes have a crank arm length of 172.5 mm. which is way to long for a short legged person.
At 5'1 I use a 165 mm crankarm length on my bikes. Anything longer kills my knees.

[spin legs]

Kathi,
What do short people do than? :cool: I am hearing "my knees hurt" more and more. I want to help these people if I can.
spin legs

[Kathi]

Do they eventually drop out of class? That's what I did. My solution was to use my bike on the trainer and forego spinning classes.

There are crank arms that are adjustable. Fit bikes that are used for bike fittings have them.

Maybe others who do spinning know of other solutions. Lowering the saddle does not help.

[han-grrl]

When setting up your bike

1) are you getting a nice extension in the leg at the bottom of the pedal stroke (knee relaxed at the bottom, not locked out)

2) When your foot is on the pedal at 3-9 Oclock, is the knee over the axle of the pedal? Check this with a plumb line.

3) Resistance - how much resistance are you using, does it feel like you are mashing the pedals. Are you adding too much when the instructors calls for it. What types of bikes are you using? The newer Schwinn bikes have this red lever so you press down on the break (instead of pulling up) and often the red lever and the resistance knob "lock" into each other, so you end up with A LOT more resistance than you mean to have. it means just giving it a jiggle to make sure the resistance knob is moving the way it should.

4) clipless vs baskets, do you feel the pain with one over the other?

Thats all i can think of...

let us know how it goes!

Hannah

[stacie]

Would you mind being more specific in describing your knee pain. Does it hurt in the front or back of your knee? You've received some good info here. Knee pain should never be an issue in spinning. I would first look at your set up, then your technique. You should never do isolations or "popcorn" jumps which involve really fast transitioning from the saddle to standing and back. You should be in each position long enough for your muscles to engage. Otherwise you transfer the work to your joints. Make sure your shoulder remain square and you don't twist while standing. Many people twist when they are really enjoying themselves. This twisting transfers to the knees as well. Keep at it. We'll help resolve this for you. Spinning is a great exercise program when done correctly. STacie

[Raindrop]

I'm just getting back to this thread, and for the poster asking how to adjust the clips on the pedals, there is a place to adjust it, using a hex screwdriver, usually at the back of the pedal. However, most clubs don't want the members in there messing with their bikes, so I would just bring this to the attention of your instructor, or to the management so they can have their bike technician go through all the bikes and adjust the pedals.

As far as the crank size being a problem, I'm not sure what every brand of indoor bike uses, but for the most part, the size parameters for these type of bikes is 5' - 6'2". Of course the bikes that can be micro-adjusted have the best chance of fitting the most comfortably.

I'm a 5'1" instructor and haven't had any problem fitting any of the different bikes.

[KSH]

Just a quick question to you all. I just taking spinning class at my local gym. I have gone three times and first time halfway thru started having pain on my upper outer side of knee. I actually had a bit of pain for over three days and it was difficult for me to bend that knee.
I tried again when I felt better and specifically told the instructer what had happened and asked for help setting up my bike correctly. Pain again halfway thru mostly when standing. This time I eased up as soon as I felt it so its not as bad. I was very careful with my form and am just wondering if it does have something to do with bike set up or am I just not meant to do this work out?:( I really enjoyed it and would hate to stop.
By the way Im 35 yrs old and pretty fit. Lots of running and weights. Any help?
Thanks so much!

Spin classes are great... BUT the instructors have students ride the bikes in a way that you would NEVER do on a real bike.

Specifically, I am talking about when they have you turn the tension all the way UP ... and MASH the pedals.

Everytime a person comes on here... we always stress how important it is to have HIGH CADENCE and to SPIN the pedals... vs. MASHING the pedals... when riding a real bike.

This is because... if you MASH PEDALS... you can end up with KNEE PAIN.

It is my opinion that this applies to spin bikes as well... and it's even WORSE.

First you are on a bike that is NOT fit for you. I have even noticed that the new trend is that the handlebars on the spin bikes can be moved closer to the seat. I know for me.... trying to reach the handlebars... with my seat in the right place... is hard. So, between the seat, etc... the bike is NOT fit for me.

Now, if you use your shoes to clip into the spin bike pedals... those pedals/clips are not positioned/fit to the natural fall of your leg. So again... poor fit on the spin bike.

So, you have poor fit... and then you are mashing the pedals... which will = knee pain.

I would "challenge" you to STOP mashing the pedals in a spin class. Sure you can turn up the tension... but make sure your cadence is still high. Also try to NOT stand up on the pedals. Basically, you will be doing your own thing... but I really encourage you to try this until your knee pain goes away.

Good luck!

[stacie]

Todays spin bikes have plenty of adjustments allowing for a good "fit". Nor do I see any problem with cleats and pedals. Maybe you have different pedals at your gym. I also see just as many people using too little resistance and pedaling too fast and out of control. This is just as likely to cause knee problems as too much resistance and too slow of cadence.

[KSH]

Todays spin bikes have plenty of adjustments allowing for a good "fit". Nor do I see any problem with cleats and pedals. Maybe you have different pedals at your gym. I also see just as many people using too little resistance and pedaling too fast and out of control. This is just as likely to cause knee problems as too much resistance and too slow of cadence.

It's great that the seats are adjustable... but in my gym, I can't move the handlbars towards me... so I have to stretch out to try to reach them. It's very uncomfortable. But it didn't use to be that way. Maybe your gym hasn't switched to the "new" bikes?

Otherwise, I have not clue on how to adjust the cleats/pedals... to ensure that my leg/foot/ankle are in proper alignment.

Then again, I'm use to Speedplays that allow my foot movement on the pedal while being clipped in.

End result? It's not as comfortable as my road bike.

[Dogmama]

End result? It's not as comfortable as my road bike.

Agree. My road bike is custom and I have a really hard time getting comfortable on spin bikes. I need the seat height between the two holes and if I move the seat too far back to accomodate my knees at the 3:00-9:00 position, I'm stretched too far for the handlebars. :mad:

So, I keep this in mind when the teacher is encouraging the class to mash the pedals, do popcorn jumps & other bad movements. Often, I'm just doing my own thing at my own cadence. I want to replicate road riding as much as possible. The only reason I'm on this d*mn thing is to keep my road riding strong. So, I don't do "standing runs" (talk about hard on your back & knees!), etc.

[aicabsolut]

I learned to try to get the same bike every spin class. And with those tight SPD buggers, I'd rotate the cleat on the shoe whichever way would get my legs in alignment--hence the need to stick with the same bike, because different pedals had been worn (or assembled) in different ways.

Some bikes do have ways to move the handlebars forward and back. Though for those that don't, get your seat where it's comfortable in height and area over the spindle and if you have a hard time reaching the bars, lift them up a little higher than you would normally.

Outer knee pain is often an ITB issue. And they'll hurt the most under load. That's why people with ITBS shouldn't do squats, particularly past the 30 degree mark. So your pain could be from a tightness in the hip (hip flexors, "snapping hip", SI joint, etc.), mild iliotibial band syndrome (runners often have ITB issues), or having your knees pointed too far in or out, and that can be caused by poor cleat alignment or muscle imbalances. The more load (such as standing) with any of these problems, the more pain.

Do you notice a hot spot or two maybe about 1/3 to 1/2 way up your thigh along the ITB? (lightly massage around and see if there are any tender spots).

If the pain is more on the top of the knee, it could be quadriceps attachment pain. I'd tend to get this more on the inner side, but that's just a different head of the quad. One of my physical therapists told me that from biking, my hamstrings would start to get tight before my quads were really warm and awake, then the quads would have to work harder to fight the hams. Increasing my hamstring flexibility by a lot and (during this time), doing a quad warmup before getting on the bike helped a lot. (leg extensions or straight leg lifts).

I hope some of that helps.

[Nokomis]

Group spin bikes leave a lot to be desired for adjustments. I get knee pain when I spin - takes a while to get to a setup that works, and since I've been out of class for months I forgot about it. One class, and owie! I ended up unclipping & flipping the pedals over for the rest of the class. If I am spinning w/ little resistance I'm fine, but once I add on moderate tension the knee feels it.

The thing that gets me is the pedals feel like they are placed wider than on any road bike I've been on - thus the entire leg alignment is different. Add that to a really fat seat, and it's just not cozy :rolleyes: I am going to try a patella tendon wrap next class & mess around w/ cleat position more. Definately try different bikes - even tho they're "all the same" they really aren't - and if you find a good one, figure out what number it is & grab that one each time.

good luck! Hope you can find an adjustment that works - don't ride thru pain. cumulative stress trama is bad, m'kay?

[nodtugud]

I train instructors for indoor cycling classes on the West Coast, from Washington, Oregon, Montana, California and Hawaii. I have been training tri-athletes and teaching cycling classes for about 15 years. I should also say that although I have been trained in "Spinning" I do not teach it. What I teach is a method which is based on real life cycling like you would find outdoors. It is an accredited American Council of Exercise course which I designed. A lot of people who teach my course and who take my classes are people who cycle outside in nice weather but during the cold wet fall and winter come indoors to train. There are also a lot of strickly indoor cyclers and people who just want to get back into shape in a controlled atmosphere.

To put it bluntly my class is not for just the "elite" fit athlete who only wears spandex and clips.:)

The two main concerns in a stationary bike setup for the knee are the seat stem and seat fore and aft position.

Your seat stem when your feet are located at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock should have your lower knee slightly bent at about 5 to 7 degreee from the floor with your foot parallel to the floor- you do not want to hyper extend the joint during a run or a sprint.

Your seat itself should be positioned so that when your pedals are at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock your forward knee (closest to the handlebars) is bent at a 90 degree angle with the ball of the foot directly over the shaft of the pedal (big round center part of the pedal) with your foot prallel to the floor. If you move forward you will put pressure on the top of the knee - back and you will put pressure on the bottom of the knee.

Your seat itself should have the nose just slightly elevate to keep you from sliding forward in the saddle. Sliding forward you can put pressure on the sides of your knee because you are using your feet in either the clips or the baskets to control your position so you don't slide forward.

The most important part of indooor cycling is form. Without form you are prone to injury. Many people think it's just jump on the bike and start pedaling. Because they can pedal hard or fast they think they are doing great and then they notice the pain.

What I have seen over the years is that people forget that the leg is a lever. When you sit in front of a class as an instructor what you see is that the main joints of your clients levers are wobbling (moving in and out, not just up and down). The longer the class and the more exertion the more chance of bad form. That is when you say into the microphone "Watch your form" so that people will adjust themselves.

The instructors I train are taught that form is everything. Longevity in sports and fitness is based on brains not brawn.

If your instructor doesn't constantly in class remind you to watch your form and adjust it - then you had better start reminding yourself otherwise you are probably going to get hurt or have pain.

During any class you take - remember one main thing - "It's your bike!" You ride it the way that is best for you, not best for the instructor.

[spin legs]

Great post #16! Good info. I am fortunate to have been instructed to set up in this way. I still have some members with knee pain. But we keep working with form and positioning and we work the kinks out.

[Katlover]

I've learned quite a bit by everyone's post however no one has mentioned swelling of the knee. I've been spinning about 1 1/2 months, 4 times a week and the fluid retention goes from my knees to me toes and by Fri. I can't walk because of the pain. I do have arthritis in my knees. Should I remain seated and not do jumps or any of the other standing movements? Also when you say don't mash the pedals do you mean push down as hard as you can? I'm trying to leave the tension very low and just pedaling fast as I can but maybe that's also wrong. Any help at all will be appreciated.

[Zen]

I've been spinning about 1 1/2 months, 4 times a week Do you give yourself a day off between classes?
Should I remain seated and not do jumps or any of the other standing movements? Try that and see if it alleviates the pain/swelling. It's your ride, you don't have to stand up.
Also when you say don't mash the pedals do you mean push down as hard as you can? Yes
I'm trying to leave the tension very low and just pedaling fast as I can but maybe that's also wrong. Find a happy medium. Fast spinning with hardly any tension isn't going to do much for you in the way of strength or cardio improvement Are you clipped in? Are you really using your shoes? By that I mean are you pulling up on one side while pushing down on the other? Keeping your foot in a flat position or pointing your toes? (don't point )

[Katlover]

Thanks for your reply, Zencentury. I have been doing the spinning on Mon.-Thur. with Fri, Sat & Sun off. Right now I'm staying out of the gym the rest of this week. Next week I will only do 2 spin classes and see how that goes. I will remain seated and not mash the pedals at all.

Now for the feet. I put my feet in these baskets that I leave very loose cuz they hurt my feet. I'm probably not using my feet correctly. I must be pointing my toes cuz they go numb after awhile. Now I know I'll have to concentrate on keeping them flat and using them more. I really enjoy the class and hope I can continue.

Again, thanks for your help.

[aicabsolut]

Cages, even if they're kind of loose, can cause numb toes. Usually, numbness is from having the straps tight enough where they actually do you some good or it's because the soles of your shoes are too squishy/floppy. If you're going to keep spinning so frequently (might be good to have a rest day thrown in there if you can move some of your workouts to the weekend), you probably would like to get some cheap cycling shoes and spd cleats so you can use the other sides of the pedals. The stiffness of the soles plus the cleats helps you make circles instead of using your legs like pistons. All that pushing down can be overloading your quads and knees. Also, if you have the tension TOO light, you are lacking some stability the resistance gives you. This is particularly bad for your knees when you do standing exercises. You might also want to think about how your knees track relative to the centerline of the bike. Do you stick them outward? Far inward? Do you have any biomechanical issues with your feet, knees, or hips, that might impact your leg alignment on the bike? If you get cycling shoes, you might be able to correct any of those problems with wedges or good insoles.

Talk to your instructors and see if they can see if you're doing something wrong. It's hard for us to speculate over the internet, but we can provide you with some general rules of thumb.