Cadence...what's should we be doing?

[ragbrai40]

Hey everyone....question about cadence, what range does everyone spin in? I've been told anywhere from 80 rpm to 95 rpm. What is considered optimum? I know this varies on types of bikes, gearing and terrain, but for training purposes what range would a person use for just regular touring - not race training? Do you try to keep tyour level of cadence up for the whole ride, or just portions?

I was told last year to spin faster, that it would make riding much easier than when trying to push a larger gear.

When riding do most of you set the bike computer to watch rpm's or distance?

Thanks for any input!

[MightyMitre]

I tend to keep an eye on cadence and speed and try and keep my cadence between 80 & 90.

Using a high cadence does stop you from grinding away at big gears and risking knee injury and Lance Armstrong has made it very popular, but trying to keep a very high cadence on climbs is tricky.
It means you need to have a super-duper aerobic fitness to keep the cadence up like Lance does, and sometimes you could run the risk of just whizzing you legs round very fast, spending all your energy on keeping you cadence high, rather that getting up the hill!

Just my thoughts.

:)

[Veronica]

On the tandem Thom and I try to keep our cadence between 90 - 110. When I was captaining with Joann she preferred a lower cadence 80 - 90. I don't have the cadence sensor set up on Fluffy (my single) but I suspect I tend to keep the cadence fairly high. I have noticed that many times I'll downshift and my speed will increase . Of course long climbs are a bit different.

Veronica

[SadieKate]

I keep on eye on my cadence but vary it alot. Typical cruising on the flat is between 85-95, but I switch up a lot because it changes how your muscles work. I sometimes shift to my biggest gear, stand up and just "walk" the bike for a while before returning to a high cadence.

I think I remember reading somewhere that it is not uncommon for women to spin at a slightly slower cadence than men. I have definitely found that doing superspin intervals on a trainer has made me a stronger rider.

[fultzie]

On the trainer i keep it at 90-ish... but when i'm on the road it tends to drop... I try to keep it at 70-80 on the flats, 60-70 on hills (sometimes drops to 50... oops!). the guy that did my bike fit at the LBS looked at my knees and said "Some people spin in easy gears, some people mash in hard ones. Looks like you're a masher"... i wondered how he could tell!
on hills, i concentrate on pulling up rather than pushing down, and that seems to help keep the cadence up (i'm still pretty new to clipless, so "pulling up" is still novel to me :p). Someone told me that your calfs/hamstrings are your "climbing muscles"... is that right?

:D <--- just had to grin, dunno why... it's the whole talking about bikes thing. i've been in a "bike mood" the past few weeks (ie: i NEED to be out on my BIKE!!! too bad they don't have a "crazy" smiley. that would fit right here ;))

[SadieKate]

Yep, pulling up will help with cadence because it is second nature to push (mash) down and this will help use all the muscles. Practicing superspins on your trainer is a big help. Try some of the spinervals tapes. While Coach Troy doesn't say a whole lot about form, he really relieves in intervals and cadences. I can see terrific improvement when I use these over the winter. Keeping cadence high can protect your knees.

And, check out your fellow cyclists' calfs. Pretty sexy, huh? No other sport makes them look quite the same.

[ragbrai40]

On my ride last night my goal was to keep the cadence no less than 85 (except on the hill - 70), otherwise primarily between 88 - 95, couple times I was up to 100, so I shifted gears. I felt pretty good, but I'm wondering if I should be in a slightly lower gear but spinning closer to 85 - 90?


"Some people spin in easy gears, some people mash in hard ones. Until recently I used to be a masher, thought the harder the gear, the better the workout - what a misconception! It's soooo much easier to spin in the easier gears!

Thanks gals!

[kelrunran]

What a great topic - one I have been wondering about.

I too keep going thinking and rethinking about my cadence. I keep trying different gears, watching my speed, just still really testing the waters for me.

My husband keeps telling me I need to spin more and stop using such big gears all the time.

[SadieKate]

This is a very long and detailed article but it is full of fascinating factoids about cadence (and other things) that are useful even for non-racers.


http://www.johnforester.com/Articles/Cycling/Physiology.htm

[ragbrai40]

Here's another site that I found on Cadence - long as well, but interesting.

[URL=http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/touring/gears.htm]

[ragbrai40]

Ooops - sorry - obviously can't do the links!

[SadieKate]

I think I figured how to post links yesterday. You click the "hhtp://" button and paste the link into it. Other forums do the conversion for you, but this site doesn't. Hopefully, this link will work.

http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/touring/gears.htm

I've printed out the article. Looks like it will be good lunch time reading. Thanks.

[Dogmama]

I think it depends on if you have more fast twitch (pushing big gears) or slow twitch (think Lance Armstrong) muscles. In TdF, Jan obviously was a masher & Lance a spinner.

[doctorfrau]

Thanks for the links.
This is all new to me -- all I've done to this point is "pedal".:rolleyes:

But I read the articles, and at least tried to keep up a cadence in a lower gear this weekend. ( I guess I'm a masher) It was actually way more fun that way, and my thighs didn't ache so much so early. I think this is a keeper!:D

[SadieKate]

Good for you! I've been riding for years and have tried to keep my cadence up based on basic knowledge (because some one also told me too at some point!). It's kind of nice to know some of the science.

I did a lot of hills this weekend and shifted down even earlier than usual. Those hills whizzed by!

[trekchic]

I am so-freakin'-new to this sport! I have some basic questions about this topic:

1- Do you mean leave the front chain ring in the middle and move the back chain ring to an "easier" gear to spin in? Don't say higher or lower, please........all the guys do that to me and I'm confused at this point.

2- What if spinning in a lower gear at a higher rate makes you "bounce" in the saddle? Am I doing something wrong?

3- How easy should I be spinning for optimum training? I am a masher, I have concluded from these posts. I would like to "enjoy" cycling more, and I guess the reason I get fatigued is because I am mashing!

I have the "spin in circles" down and (I don't have a cadence counter on my computer, so I have to do it the hard way!) I try to focus on pulling up as well as pushing down, AND I try to "scrape the gum off my shoe" while pedalling (that analogy was discussed one day on this forum and everyone seemed to like it, so I've adapted it). What else do I need to work at?

I have a 6 month old Trek 1500, so my components and everything should be fine and up to date.......help me with my training!

Kim

[trekchic]

I just realized I said "lower gear" in my post! I mean a harder gear to pedal in. See, I'm so confused I've even confused myself on what I understand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Veronica]

Spinning at a higher cadence means you are using an easier gear. Sometimes that means moving from the big ring in the front to the middle (assuming you're using a triple) sometimes that means moving to an easier gear in the rear. (BTW the easier gears in the back are the bigger gears.:) )

If you are bouncing either you have way to high a cadence or you are not spinning in smooth circles. Probably the latter. Thom and I have been able to spin at 140 on the tandem - just for kicks - without bouncing. That takes a lot of effort and concentration and really doesn't do anything to make you go faster, but the club guys wanted to know how fast we could spin.


Your third question has as many answers as there are cyclists. When I feel the muscles in my legs beginning to burn from lactic acid buildup, I downshift to spin more. When I need to do that varies from day to day, based on terrain, wind conditions, how hard I rode the day before, etc. The effect for me has been that the burning goes away and my speed stays the same or actually increases.


Veronica

[jobob]

If you are bouncing either you have way to high a cadence or you are not spinning in smooth circles. Probably the latter. Another thing you might want to check is your saddle height - if your saddle is set too high your hips will rock which will make you bounce a bit as you pedal, and it gets more pronounced as you up your cadence. But like V suggested, if you're not spinning in smooth circles you'll bounce at a high cadence, even if your saddle is set correctly.

[ragbrai40]

I've been doing some research, talking to a couple of experienced biker friends who ride/race - and might be able to answer your questions:


1- Do you mean leave the front chain ring in the middle and move the back chain ring to an "easier" gear to spin in? Don't say higher or lower, please........all the guys do that to me and I'm confused at this point
Yes - front chain ring in middle position and the back ring wherever it's comfortable for you to spin fast - without alot of "mashing".


2- What if spinning in a lower gear at a higher rate makes you "bounce" in the saddle? Am I doing something wrong?
You shouldn't bounce - you need to be in a harder gear.


3- How easy should I be spinning for optimum training? I am a masher, I have concluded from these posts. I would like to "enjoy" cycling more, and I guess the reason I get fatigued is because I am mashing!

I spin 85 - 100 depending on wind, hills, etc. I felt EXACTLY the way you stated above and have been asking questions which is where I've picked up some tips that do work.

I used to "mash" until last year I was pulling a paceline at one point during a weeklong 475 mi ride. It was my first time, had NO idea what I was doing, so I just rode like a bat out of he&&, mashing away. (had 20 people behind me - had to prove myself) well to make a long story short, I asked a couple of people after we got into camp how they thought I did and one said I need to spin faster. Not harder gears, but faster. He said it would be hard at first but eventually it would make a world of difference in my rides.

And the funny thing - he was totally right - I hurt my knee pulling that paceline and struggled the rest of the week on hills. Now I have my bike computer set on rpm's - and I am constantly checking that to keep my pace up. And if it drops below a certain level, I just shift to an easier gear and pedal faster. It's made a world of difference on how I feel during rides!

There are a couple of links posted in this thread regarding this topic that explain the topic in great detail, much more info than I'll ever use, but it helps understand the dynamics and the "why" of it all.

Don't know if any of this helps, but this is what I've picked up and applied and can attest it does work!

Happy Spinning everyone!

Oh - today is my 41st bday and I've got a date with a couple of "monster" hills that kicked my butt last year on my 40th - so watch out - here I come!!!!!

[ragbrai40]

ok - veronica said it better! I'm too long winded!

[Veronica]

Thanks Ragbrai - I always figured I was too brief - almost curt. :p

Good point on the saddle height, Jo.

V.

[trekchic]

Thanks! You guys did great. I understood every thing you said and needed both posts to put it all together. I am still on the trainer, so I will start tonight on getting into an easier gear and spinning faster.

Should I get the cadence thing for my computer? I have a separate hrm already..........too many thingy's to look at!

Kim in TN

[Veronica]

Should you get the cadence thing? Do you have the spare cash to get it? I like my very fancy heartrate monitor that shows cadence, speed, elevation, temperature and predicts the future ;) , but I wouldn't feel comfortable telling someone else they HAD to get it.

Hmmm.... well, I like having one on the trainer. I don't have it set up on my single. I go by how my legs feel. It was very useful when we first started riding the tandem and wonderful to have when I captained with Joann, to get us more in sync. But now we hardly use it - except when we're doing the Spineravls Recovery and Technique tape where you supposed to concentrate on having a very high cadence (upwards of 120 I think.)

Veronica

[ragbrai40]

You girls bring up an interesting point - my computer doesn't work on my trainer - the sensor is on the front wheel, not rear. And I rarely if ever use the trainer, I just went to spinning classes 3 - 4 times a week instead.

When I got the road bike I didn't think I'd ever use the cadence feature, but that's the main thing I look at now.

I agree with veronica - you don't HAVE to have it, it's whatever you feel you need and the budget to support it.

[kelrunran]

I just want to say that all your information has helped me a lot, including the links with the articles.

I did my first (short distance) trialthon of the season this weekend and I have always been a masher, but I really focused on trying to spin more. It really, I think, helped me a lot as the bike course was on rolling hills.

My husband does tell me I need to spin more but I'm one of those wives that needs to hear it or read somewhere else also :)!

Thanks again.....Kelly

[MightyMitre]

Ok guys - just to add to the cadence debate, most people recognise that spinning in a high gear is the way to go, rather than mashing your knees to bits on big gears, but while you're all out there practising spinning, it's worth remembering those big gears are still there.

High cadence is great but it can take a while to get use to, so if you're ever flagging it's sometimes worth changing into a 'harder' gear for a little while so you can keep the speed the same but use a slower cadence to give your legs a rest.

I find this is really usefull, especially towards the end of a ride when my legs are tired, it's sometimes easier to slow the legs down for a little while, then carry on at your usual cadence.

Eg I'm ususally at about 85-95rpm, but sometimes switch to 65-75 for short 5 mins or so.

Just my experience...:)

[SadieKate]

I agree!

I take a rest/stretch periodically by shifting into my highest gear (on a flat section of road), standing up and "walking" the bike for a while. Again, it is only for a few minutes, but does wonders for tired muscles all over your bod.

[Veronica]

You're right MM and SadieKate. I don't do it so much on my single, but Thom often near the end of a century switches into a really tall gear on the tandem and we kind of grind along for a few minutes. I have finicky knees, so we don't do it for long that's for sure.

Gosh, there are so many things that I do on my bike, that I just don't really think about.

Veronica

[SadieKate]

Actually, I don't think about them until I'm on a tandem. Then, the 'ol kidney control manuever comes into play! He hits a pothole, I hit his kidneys (not really, just more of a threat!). :D