rebuild a John Deere Bike?

[Tuckervill]

My 12 yo son asked for a beater road bike to repair for his birthday. Since we don't exactly live in the cycling Mecca of the world, we're having trouble even finding bikes at all in pawn shops, flea markets, etc., let alone bike cadavers.

But today we did run across a vintage 1970s John Deere bike, all original. It has a steel lugged frame, good bars and the rest of the components are crap. It's actually still in rideable condition with a little air in the tires. It does have rust on the frame, but just cosmetic. He plans on painting any bike he gets, anyway. It's a 23" frame with 27" wheels--a little big for him, but he should grow into it pretty quick. It was $135, which I was willing to pay knowing what he was looking at in frames in the bikenashbar catalog.

I looked it up online and found these:

http://www.mindspring.com/~dagmara/deere.html (ours is just like the one prominent in his "stable.")
http://www.rungreen.com/files/bicyclesproductinfo.pdf#search=%22john%20deere%20bicycles%22
http://bluecollarmtb.com/2006/07/31/vintage-john-deere-bicycle/#comment-44076 (it is not the bike in this thread, but the thread discusses JD bikes)

I think it will be a good bike for him to mess with. My question for you bike divas is, do you think he will have trouble getting parts that fit, specifically a headset and/or bottom bracket, if needed? (He may not need to replace those parts, but he may want to just to do it for the "cool factor".) Would there be issues with fitting new cranks or chainrings to the old bottom bracket?

Any other things I should tell him to watch for? I checked all the welds on the frame, etc, and aside from the minor rust, it seemed fine.

Also, is there a good book about bike repair, with lots of pictures? I'll turn him on to Sheldon Brown, too.

Thanks!
Karen

[DebW]

If this is the typical American-made frame from that era, it uses 1 inch tubes instead of 1 1/8 inch tubes and any modern frame-fit parts (like headset or bottom bracket) will not work. But you say it is lugged so maybe it is a better quality frame that can take European components. The big clue is whether is has a 3-piece crank or a 1-piece crank. If the crank is a single piece of stamped steel with 2 bends in it that fits through the frame, you've got an American frame which won't take modern parts. If a 3-piece crank with a separate bottom bracket spindle, you are probably in luck and can have fun upgrading the bike. I can't tell from the photo which is the case. You also need to get the diameter of the seatpost and stem to find out if you get get appropriate replacements.

BTW, if you have a 1-piece crank the BB shell is a larger diameter that won't fit a new bottom bracket, but Sheldon Brown mentions an adapter that will let you mount a decent bb.

[Tuckervill]

It was made in Taiwan, if that makes a difference. When you say tubes, you mean the steel tubes of the frame, right?

Don't we need a special tool to remove the cranks? Can it be done without the tool? edit: Never mind--the cranks are held onto the spindle with a nut and bolt.

I'll go take pictures of it so you can tell me what you think. I think it IS a 3 piece crank, though, just from looking at them. edit: Definitely 3 pieces.

Thanks for your info. He's taken a lot of it apart already. The tires still held air, but the front wheel has a flat spot and bad bearings. I am encouraging him to use the existing cranks, chainrings and cogs, although he thinks they don't "look good". I'll get him a gallon of Simple Green tomorrow. I ran across a site that had stuff for getting rust off of chrome, but I'm not sure how much can be removed. He's trying to decide whether to keep the John Deere theme (there's a sticker that I'm sure can never be replaced) or just repaint it with flames or something like that. lol.

Thanks!
Karen

[DebW]

Are there cotter pins holding the crank on, or a bolt into the end of the spindle? Show me a close up picture and I can tell you how to get it apart.

Are the rims steel or alloy? If they are steel, you can take a hammer and bang out dents.

5-speed freewheel, right? They can get hard to remove if they've been on a really long time, but give it a try. Read the freewheel brand and you should know what type of puller is needed (but Suntour has at least 2 styles and so does Regina). You need to remove the freewheel to repack the rear hub bearings. You can still get 14-28 replacement 5-speed freewheels, but not good quality 14-24s.

[SouthernBelle]

You may be able to get some type of John Deere decals. Try places like TSC or a county coop. Or he could just paint a 'frame' around the John Deere stuff.

HTH,

[mimitabby]

have you looked on Ebay? You can buy a bike and have it shipped to you!

[Tuckervill]

Deb, you're a treasure.

We figured out they were cottered cranks, and we got them off. We need to get a c-spanner to get the lock ring off on the bottom bracket.

He hasn't even considered the freewheel, yet. Had a hard time getting many of the bolts loose on the brakes, etc. He's got it down to just the frame and the bottom bracket now, and he's begging me to come out right NOW.

I'm sure I'll be writing again. Thanks everyone!

Karen

[DebW]

Yup, you'll need a lock ring spanner. The cup will require either a pin spanner or some older bb cups came off with a large crescent wrench. Don't remove the fixed cup unless you decide to replace the whole bb.

[Tuckervill]

Funny thing is, dh got home and son was so excited they went straight to the garage before I could tell him we need a spanner to get the lock ring off. It was so loose, Dh got it off with his fingers, which I didn't even attempt. He also had an automotive tool that took the cup out easily.

I don't see how we'll get new cranks and chainrings without a new bottom bracket anyway, due to the inelegantly cottered cranks. I think they destroyed one of the cotter pins during removal, too. I don't think it needs new chainrings, but the cranks, he'll probably want new ones, which means he'll probably get new rings, too. We're going to take it in to the place where we bought our bikes and see if Jason can measure stuff for us and give the boy guidance. I'm pretty certain after reading Sheldon Brown that the diameters of the tubes and bottom bracket, etc., will not give us any unsurmountable problems. We can always reassemble it with the original parts if necessary, after it's repainted.

Thanks again!
Karen

[SouthernBelle]

Another thing I should have mentioned is John Deere green paint hould be easily found too, assuming he wants to hang with that. Also check with a John Deere dealer.

[DebW]

Funny thing is, dh got home and son was so excited they went straight to the garage before I could tell him we need a spanner to get the lock ring off. It was so loose, Dh got it off with his fingers, which I didn't even attempt. He also had an automotive tool that took the cup out easily.

You could have gotten it off with a hammer and punch if you really wanted to.
But best to get the spanner to put it back on and do a good job adjusting the bearings.



I don't see how we'll get new cranks and chainrings without a new bottom bracket anyway, due to the inelegantly cottered cranks. I think they destroyed one of the cotter pins during removal, too. I don't think it needs new chainrings, but the cranks, he'll probably want new ones, which means he'll probably get new rings, too. We're going to take it in to the place where we bought our bikes and see if Jason can measure stuff for us and give the boy guidance. I'm pretty certain after reading Sheldon Brown that the diameters of the tubes and bottom bracket, etc., will not give us any unsurmountable problems. We can always reassemble it with the original parts if necessary, after it's repainted.

Thanks again!
Karen

You can buy new cotter pins (try www.loosescrews.com or Sheldon Brown). Sometimes you have to file the flats to make them fit, though. They often get munged in the removal process. You can probably replace this with a used cotterless crank if you can find something. If you put the original steel cotered crank back on, your son can learn to true chainrings - a skill not many people have these days.

[Tuckervill]

I'm not sure the fine art of bike building is what he's after. lol. But, maybe if I got him a good book about it, he'd be interested in truing cranks.

He really wants to replace all the components. We've read up and the bike is not worth much as a JD restoration. If it was worth something, we would have paid more than $135, I'm sure, because this bike only needed to be cleaned up, and a little rust removal, to be all original again. We're going to bag up the parts individually and see if we can sell them on ebay for a pittance. There is one guy in Texas that found and restored one of every bike JD ever made. Maybe there are others who need parts. The original price on the bike new was only $109 in '73-75.

We took the frame to the bike shop yesterday. They thought the frame was great, in great shape, and will be easy to build up. The bb is English, 68mm, so that's a relief. My son is really focused on new cranks, so I think that's what he'll start on, after the paint.

He's talking gloss black with flames (I'm going to try to talk him into JD green flames) and then a sticker that says "nothing rides like a Deere" instead of the JD logo. It has a JD medallion that he plans to keep. Should be pretty cool when it's all done.

Thanks!
Karen

[DebW]

He really wants to replace all the components. We've read up and the bike is not worth much as a JD restoration. If it was worth something, we would have paid more than $135, I'm sure, because this bike only needed to be cleaned up, and a little rust removal, to be all original again. We're going to bag up the parts individually and see if we can sell them on ebay for a pittance. There is one guy in Texas that found and restored one of every bike JD ever made. Maybe there are others who need parts. The original price on the bike new was only $109 in '73-75.


Just for comparison, a Rayleigh Record (their lowest-priced 10-speed) cost $99 in 1973. The Rayleigh Grand Prix cost $125. So $109 wasn't a cheap bike in 1973, but it was near the low end of 10-speeds. The parts you have were good quality for the time. Sounds like your son is having fun with it. Are you sticking with the original wheels?

[Tuckervill]

I don't think we'll be able to use the front wheel, without a lot of repair. It is definitely out of round. When we rode the bike it was like riding a flat on a car tire. bump-bump, bump-bump. The bearings are sticky, too. The rear wheel...I've not thought about that, yet, but I think it will be useable as it is. They are 27" wheels, too.

I'm kind of mentoring him along a little at a time, relying on Dad for the advanced mechanical stuff and muscle when needed, and right now we're thinking about the frame. He's only 12, so he doesn't really have a grasp about how much work there actually is. We'll probably order some parts on Monday. I'll be excited to see it all cleaned up.

Karen