ARGH!!!!!!!! (Bike Fridays - Long)

[Blueberry]

So....DH's and my Bike Fridays arrived on Monday, and we (of course) stayed up putting them together. Mine went together quickly (except for the front fork not quite fitting on the hub without a lot of *ahem* encouragement - and yes, we were doing everything correctly) - hubby's had a few more problems. Right off the bat, we noticed lots of things missing (i.e. fenders, rack for my bike, return shipping boxes for the custom stems). Hubby's bike had significant brake issues we noticed as we were putting it together. Took him quite a while to try to fix it.

I tried to take my bike on a short ride last night. To fold the bikes, you have to put them in the small/small combination (you want a slack chain). I tried to shift out of the small ring and the pedals locked:eek: :eek: Didn't fall, but came close. The front derallier was running *into* the chain rings. We called Bike Friday. First guy tried to talk us through fixing it. Said it must have happened during shipping (no damage to the boxes). Promised that they had tested it in the shop. NO WAY. It wasn't working - even with the derailleur all the way up, it was still almost hitting on the rear (plus, his fix involved using a tool in such a way that slightly scratched the paint:eek: ). I looked more closely, and the derailleur cage isn't spaced evenly from front to back. There's almost an inch of difference from the front to the back. First guy had to go. Another guy called back. He tried to talk us through fixing it - once he finally *got* the problem, he was horrified. He said that the bike should have never left in that condition, and to *pack it up and ship it back.* He said that it would have been a build error, and that there was no way the bike was tested, as that would have been caught. I had to ask for them to pay for shipping. He also wants hubby's bike returned since the same guy built them. If the build is that bad?!?!?!?!

This is no small investment in time and aggravation (packing up 2 bikes and mailing them). And, quite frankly, I'm really losing confidence in the company and their products. Am I jumping the gun? Should I be more patient with them? These bikes were a huge investment, and I really feel like their customer service (the first guy who was clueless) and the fit and finish on the bikes *suck* (though the colors are purty). Plus, before we realized the giant problem with mine, hubby took his on a test ride. He was less than impressed with the speed (it was significantly slower than his other bike, though of similar weight and geared similarly with similar width tires). I wasn't under the impression that this would be the case. Have others had this experience?

Help! I've really been looking forward to these for a long time, and I'm really upset and thus not sure I'm thinking straight!

[mtkitchn]

You know, I got my BF in the beginning of Sept, finally put it together about a week ago and had the same problem as you with the pedals locking!!! I was too busy to look hard at it and just put it in a back room. I was going to take it to the LBS this week when I have time, but I wonder if there is some crap leaving their place these days? I should call them. Anyway, can't give you any words of encouragement since this is my first dealing with the company and their products.

[Blueberry]

I should call them.

You definitely should! If they're having this kind of problem, they *really* need to know so they can address it. They can't fix it if they don't know (but I'm still not feeling any better....)

[Fredwina]

I did not have any problems with mine when it arrived. Really no problems since I had it. Not sure about the other TE Gal's experiences (Emily in NC, and Denise Goldberg...)

[emily_in_nc]

Carrie Anne, I am so sorry to hear this! Neither Barry nor I had any problems of this sort at all. As you know, I did have to send mine back to shorten the top tube, which was indeed annoying since I'd specified exactly how long to make it, but I guess they didn't believe that anyone of my height could possibly really want a 19" top tube! I did talk to a couple of different people at Bike Friday about that until they really "got it" about WSD, as well as wrote up my experience in a girlbike.com review. They did make it right and paid for shipping both ways without my even having to ask.

We didn't have any mechanical problems at all and have never had to call for service. I am not sure if they have hired some bad folks there or what since we got our bikes in 2004. They should definitely make everything right at their expense, but yes, it is a royal pain to have to pack them all back up and ship them back. So sorry.

As for going slower, ours were slower than our road bikes, but it was really an apples and oranges thing for us since they were also slightly heavier than our carbon roadies, and with wider tires, so we wouldn't have expected them to be quite as fast. We can still ride fast on them when they are stripped of racks, fenders, bags, etc, though. I rode mine once on a Tarwheels line and kept up in a fast B-paced paceline, so I am not sure why your husband's would be slower unless it is heavier than his current bike or if he has a more upright posture, increasing wind drag. I definitely did not buy my Crusoe for speed, though, but for comfort and touring. The "fast" Fridays are the Pocket Rocket Pro and Air Friday, which have skinnier rims and tires.

Keep us posted -- I am so sorry! :(

Emily

[DeniseGoldberg]

Carrie Anne -
I haven't experienced any problems with my Fridays. They both fit, and were a delight to ride from the beginning.

One of my bikes is set up as a road bike, and one as a touring bike. The touring bike has exactly the same gearing as my 700c wheel touring bike, and it doesn't feel any different from a speed standpoint from my 700c-wheeled bike. If anything it is more responsive because of the little wheels. When your husband says his bike feels slow in comparison with his other bike(s) - is the gearing really the same between the two bikes, or is one set up as a road bike and the other as a touring bike?

I'm really sorry to hear about the problems that you are having with your new bikes. It's upsetting to order custom bikes, to wait for delivery, and then to have them not be right. My recommendation is that you give Bike Friday a chance to make them right. You sound very upset though; have you called and talked to the person you dealt with when you ordered the bikes? In my experience this is a customer-centric company, and I would hope that they will quickly correct the problem.

--- Denise

[Triskeliongirl]

I too had a sizing problem with my bike friday, and I had to send it back but they made it right at no added cost to me. I also did not find my friday slower than a similarly weighted and geared big wheeled bike. I would say give them a chance to make it right, but if they don't you do have the 30 day guarantee, which you have to give them credit for is rare in the custom bike world. WHen you say the gearing is the same, did you calculate for the difference in tire size, that is do you mean the gear ratios are the same, or the gears are the same, cuz you need to choose gears to make the ratios be the same when caluculating for the smaller wheel. Mine was stolen, and I do miss the cost savings when traveling.

[Fredwina]

compared to my "road" bike, the NWT is slower, but it's also heavier and is set up as a touring bike (wider bike and upright position). I think you really have to compare apples to apples

[susan.wells]

I purchased a pre-owned (Air Glide with SRAM dual drive rear hub) BF directly from BF last year. On its maiden century (and voyage), I had transported it to the event on my rear hitch rack. On the return from the event, I was rear-ended. I sent the bike to BF for repair/replacement estimate (the guy's insurance was covering the costs). Much to my surprise BF said it was repairable and provided a quote. I authorized the repair. When I received the bike back the first time, the rear wheel and hub were replaced but the frame had not been aligned and the clickbox that attached to the rear hub mechanism was still broken. It was still quite visibly twisted and the crank could not make a complete revolution. Obviously no one had tested the bike prior to shipping! I phoned BF who very nicely said ship it back and they would cover all shipping costs. When I received the bike back the second time, they had aligned the frame but still had not replaced the clickbox. I phoned yet again and they were apologetic saying they would send a couple of clickboxes right out. I never received them and finally ordered & replaced it myself.

I know others have had fantastic service but I will not purchase another bicycle from them. I haven't even unboxed it this year because I really don't trust the assessment that the bicycle was repairable in the first place. I suppose they should know the integrity of the frame but if you ship it out without the crank even being able to make a complete revolution ... who's to say you really checked the frame out for structural damage in the first place!

[DDH]

I can't offer any help to you, but I just wanted to say how sorry I was you both are having to go through this with your bikes. It's suppose to be a fun time and exciting time and you both are having so much frustration with it.
I hope they get everything straightened out for you and you get great bikes back after sending them in. :D

[Blueberry]

...and I really wish I could say that things are better, but they aren't. In fact they're worse.

Apparently the packing folks just didn't put the chain protectors on, so the chain rings darned near went through the suitcases on both bikes. Don't yet know if there's damage to the chainrings (I don't think the shipping company did this because they were at the upper end of the case for both, and there's no real way for them to get from A to B). Hubby's bars are now taped/aligned way off center.

My bike had a plastic bike broken off in the rim, and the paint jobs on both bikes are in bad shape. Somehow they killed the paint on the stays for the quick release seat mast. It's flaking off. And they adjusted my rear brake such that it has taken the paint off a significant area of the chain stay. GRRRRR.......

So...what to do...we will call the company Monday and see what the story is. If we have to ship the bikes back again, it will be ridiculous. We've "had them" for a month, and only really had then a few days. I don't know if we have a 30 day option to return them or not due to the time they've had them "for repairs."

I feel like crying. These bikes were a dream of ours for so long, mine was a birthday present, and the company just can't get *anything* right.

Thanks for letting me vent (and please feel free to offer perspective if I'm off base - I just think when you're dropping $3k per bike, you should expect that they will be adjusted correctly, packed correctly and have the paint in tact when they arrive).

Carrie Anne

[Blueberry]

Looks like UPS did some of their own damage too - just noticed that the suitcase (which was in a box) is cracked. UGH!

[mimitabby]

Good Grief, CA, what a bummer!
My DH bought a bike friday used and broke it trying to assemble it the first time.
At least we think he's the one that torqued the derailleur. iF you're going to design a bike that is made to be assembled and reassembled, don't you think you should make it EASY to do?
sigh..
His opinion of said bike has gone down since then (for a number of reasons). He flew to Phoenix this week with his Raleigh, not his bike friday.

I am glad that some folks are having great experiences with them though, especially Denise,who continues to entertain everyone with great photos.

[Blueberry]

mimitabby-
If I may ask, what other problems has your DH had that cause him to not want to fly with the bike? We may still have the option of returning the bikes, so I'm trying to gather as much information as possible to make that decision.

I do want to be able to travel with it, and it's by far the most expensive bike I've bought, so I'd rather know sooner than later that it won't work for me...

The noodle/barrel adjuster of the rear brake actually hits the frame when you brake still.

It is a pretty bike, though. Most of their problems (thus far) seem to have been either 1) adjustment or 2) packaging problems. So, maybe there is hope...

[mimitabby]

He found a bike mechanic he really likes and the bike mechanic said a lot of negative things about BF's in general. I think that more than anything has colored his opinion, unfortunately.
There's a gizmo that screws into another gizmo.. what is it? (I don't remember) sigh...when he was putting it back together after taking it to Louisiana, the threads were stripped, again, his fault, but still... I was stunned. This is supposed to be a bike that you can put together and take apart over and over again; isn't that the point?

he took it to the shop and they fixed it, and we had a discussion about the bike.
Now he goes into some vague reasons why he likes the raleigh better (like, Well, i'm not sure i want to ride 100 miles on the bf..) why not?

He has a big huge case for the Raleigh. It fits in it quite well. The problem is that the case itself will only fit into some kinds of cars..
with the BF, the case fits almost anywhere.

[KnottedYet]

How about trying a Rodgriguez W2 or Houdini if the Bike Fridays won't work for you? www.rodcycle.com

They pack into a 26x26 suitcase, are custom made, and cost $2,700. Made here in Seattle, good reputation. I know of a few women with Rodgriguez bikes and haven't heard anything bad about them.

I was considering one of their other touring bikes, but then Flossie came into my life...:D Her lovely lugs just stole my heart away.:p

[mimitabby]

hey, their(rodriguez) 8 ball is a cool idea, too. it's a tandem that fits into 2 cases that can also be a single bike!!

[Blueberry]

Thanks, Mimitabby. That is helpful!

I actually did some detective work this morning, and discovered that the cable routing is completely wrong, which is what caused the brake to rub. UGH.

I really don't want to have to ship the bike back a second time. It's a week each way, and it's a PITA. We'll see what they say tomorrow.

The Rodriguez is an interesting idea - I'll keep it in mind if this doesn't work out.

[mimitabby]

talk about damning photos!

[Triskeliongirl]

Did you talk to them today? What did they say? Please let us know. I loved my pocket rocket pro until she was stolen. Yes, I had my problems with BF, but they were always responsive and the bike performed very well and was very convenient to travel with. I rode her from Chiapis to Guatemala with no problems. But, I did learn that whenever you pack any bike, you need to aquire some mechanical skills as any bike gets out of adjustment when you go through packing, shipping, etc. But what you are describing is clearly something different, that you must work out with Bike Friday if they want to keep you as a customer.

[Blueberry]

Hubby talked to a couple of different people today (I had a 12+ hour work day). First line of folks were horrified, but not sure what to do. Then he got someone else on the phone. First thing he wanted to know was whether we were still willing to work with them (we are - so long as they start "getting it right" - my fear was waiting too long and getting stuck with a bike that wasn't right). We're supposed to be getting an email about all of this but, this is what I know so far:

1) They're sending new suitcases. We didn't ask them to, but they were quite upset about the damage and wanted us to have perfect ones.

2) They're sending touch up paint. If that doesn't provide a satisfactory result, they will re-paint, or give a certificate for a repaint in the future (after a couple of trips).

3) They had a really bad mechanic, who has since been fired. He worked on our bikes (though one wonders why they let him work on them a second time when they said they would "hand check" them completely themselves).

4) They are going to work with me on fit - they're sending me their fit kit information to see if we can ascertain why I'm so uncomfortable on the bike. We think the seat tube may be too steep (apparently their fit software often produces this problem for female riders). They will re-build as necessary.

5) They are willing to work with a LBS regarding cable re-routing, etc. Triskeliongirl - you are correct about minor adjustments, and I'm comfortable fiddling with barrel adjustments, etc. However, brake digging into the frame is a little beyond my mechanical skill:)

So...all in all, I'm happy with their response - SO LONG AS THEY GET IT RIGHT THIS TIME. This was strike 2 - they have one more chance, so far as I'm concerned. Let's hope we can work it out as I really like the company, the concept and the bikes:)

[Triskeliongirl]

5) They are willing to work with a LBS regarding cable re-routing, etc. Triskeliongirl - you are correct about minor adjustments, and I'm comfortable fiddling with barrel adjustments, etc. However, brake digging into the frame is a little beyond my mechanical skill:)


Absolutely. The brake digging into the frame is indeed apalling. But, with any travel bike you are also going to have to learn how to do a bit more than turn a barrel adjuster, just a word of warning. If I were you guys, I would be sure to get them to guarantee in writing, that if they get it wrong on try 3 that you can still return the bikes, and also be sure to take that certificate for a paint job. When my bike friday arrived, it also had damaged paint on the seat stay and the top tube was too long. They remade the half that the top tube is on, with the correctly sized top tube, and then the fit was perfect. They repainted the seatstay, but you could see that it had been touched up and while this was OK, it always bugged me that if I were to want to sell it one day it would decrease its value, so that is why I suggest taking the touch up paint, but also the re-paint certificate. I think what happened to you, and me, has to do with the fact that they are a small family business. That has pluses and minuses. It means maybe there is more room for screw ups like this, but there is also more opportunity for them to give folks really personal service. Buying a bike friday is buying into a community, and it is a damn good community, both the people that make these bikes and the people who ride them. So, I think it is worth working with them on this, but just make sure you protect yourself if they don't get it right next time. Good luck and keep us updated.

[emily_in_nc]

CA~

I've been meaning to ask you for an update on this but keep forgetting until I am away from a computer, so was glad to see this thread resurface. I am so sorry your Bike Fridays still aren't right! It's good to know that they fired the bad mechanic, but the problems that occurred the second time around (other than the UPS issues, which BF has no control over) should never have happened. Our Fridays were packed so nicely with no damage whatsoever when they came from the company (mine both times).

I think it's generous of you to still want to work things out and glad that they seem committed to making things right. They really are good people - if imperfect. But we have been very happy with our Crusoes and have not experienced these problems at all, so it's still possible that things will end up positive. I agree that one more chance is all they get.

I'm a bit confused about the possible seat tube geometry issue. I thought that the Crusoe had a 73-degree seat tube angle and that that wouldn't change, regardless of size. Guess I was wrong there. My bike is presumably even smaller than yours since I'm shorter, and it is quite comfy -- comfy enough to do our long loaded tour in 2004 (averaged 63 miles/daily for nine days). Then again, my Aegis has a STA of 75 degrees and is very comfortable for me too. My Terry Isis had a STA of 73 degrees -- once again, comfy. I guess in all cases b/c the top tube was short enough, the handlebars were the right size, and so forth, the STA didn't affect me as much as it might some people; I dunno.

GOOD LUCK with getting things made right, and please continue to post about what is happening!

Emily

[Triskeliongirl]

PLEASE UPDATE us on the status of your BF. I have a friend who was a happy BF customer until his air friday just broke for the third time. Twice the frame and once the titanium beam. They always repaired it, but he is fed up and just ordered an S/S coupled waterford touring bike

[KnottedYet]

Mmmmm.... Waterford....

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m21/KnottedYet/DSCN0224.jpg

Flossie doesn't have S+S couplers, but I'm thinking if I ever want a travel bike I'll do another Waterford or a Rodriguez with the couplers.

[Blueberry]

I had wanted to see how things were going to shake out before posting again, to give Bike Friday the benefit of the doubt, but not much seems to be happening, so I think it's fair to post again.

We did finally receive the replacement suitcases last Friday. After 2 weeks of not getting calls back (after we were referred to the customer service manager!), we finally got in touch with someone else. They have authorized my LBS to do the repair work. They've finally admitted that perhaps I do need the crank length I use on the rest of my bikes, and said that we would have a new one no later than last friday (and a set back seat post in case the crank doesn't do enough to fix KOP position). I emailed on Friday (since they hadn't sent the promised tracking info), and still haven't gotten a response. They want to hold all of the repairs for one time, so DH's bike still isn't right.

And Emily - apparently what they told me about varying seat tube angle was NOT correct (that came from their customer service manager). However, we aren't sure why I can get a good knee position on DH's bike (we ride almost exactly the same saddle height), but not on mine. That's why we're trying the longer cranks (DH's are 170's, which is what I'm getting) and set back seatpost. The crank really shouldn't make *that* much of a difference...Of course, then I may well have to shorten the stem, which will bring with it a whole new set of problems.

I really am getting fed up. We keep hearing "your bikes are first priority and we'll work until we get them right," and then it's 2-4 weeks before we hear anything else. We're not too far from asking to return them. I can't imagine what this kind of service could do to a tour....

Thoughts are always welcome:) Will update as we know more.

Carrie Anne

[Triskeliongirl]

Mmmmm.... Waterford....
Flossie doesn't have S+S couplers, but I'm thinking if I ever want a travel bike I'll do another Waterford or a Rodriguez with the couplers.

FYI, Flossie can be retrofit. I'm doing that on a steel terry isis as we speak. She is supposed to be shipped after thanksgiving from Bilenky Cyle Works, recommended to me by Georgena Terry http://www.bilenky.com/Retrofits.html

My understanding is that s/s packed bikes require more technical knowledge to assemble than a bike friday but are very robust. I hate to say it but at this point I would return those bike fridays for a full refund while you still can. Something has happened to their quality control, and you have given them ample time to fix it. This goes way deeper than one bad employee that is no longer there.

[ridethewind]

I really am getting fed up. We keep hearing "your bikes are first priority and we'll work until we get them right," and then it's 2-4 weeks before we hear anything else. We're not too far from asking to return them.

I think you should just give up and return the bikes for a refund. BF has had more than enough time to make this right and now they are not returning calls and stringing the process out for weeks. Sounds like they are not really serious about getting this done. The sooner you can get your money back, the better off you will be. It's sad that BF has taken what should have been an exciting purchase and made it so miserable for you.

Jean

[Triskeliongirl]

They've finally admitted that perhaps I do need the crank length I use on the rest of my bikes, and said that we would have a new one no later than last friday (and a set back seat post in case the crank doesn't do enough to fix KOP position). ...However, we aren't sure why I can get a good knee position on DH's bike (we ride almost exactly the same saddle height), but not on mine. That's why we're trying the longer cranks (DH's are 170's, which is what I'm getting) and set back seatpost. The crank really shouldn't make *that* much of a difference...Of course, then I may well have to shorten the stem, which will bring with it a whole new set of problems....

I also couldn't get a good KOP on my PRP until I got a laid back seatpost. BUT, be aware that while all bike fridays are *supposed* to have a 73 degree seat tube angle, since on a bike friday its set by the hinge and not weld, theis could be off. A 1 degree change in STA will cause a 1 cm change in set back which I bet is your problem. I always suspected this was the case on my BF since the apparent top tube size they claimed my bike was was not consistent with measurements I got of the bike, *unless* the STA was not 73 which I always suspected but couldn't accurately measure. BUT, a very laid back seatpost should correct this for you. PM me if the one they send doesn't work out and I can tell you what is out there since I have a lot of experience with this. It also depends on the saddle. Are you comparing the same saddle on both bikes. If the saddle on your husband's bike has longer rails so it can be pushed further back, that may explain the position difference. FYI, Brooks saddles have quite short rails so I had to revisit this issue recently.

Actually, I am pretty sure the STA was not as specified on my PRP, becasue if I compare the setback measurement I got dropping a plumb bob off the front of the saddle using the same seatpost and saddle and bike that also has a 73 degree STA I got a different measurement. Only problem now is I can't go back and check measurements since that bike was stolen. I only learned this when I was setting up my next bike. Also be aware that when you assmeble the friday the seatpost has to be ALL the way back before securing the quick release or the setback is off. While this sounds obvious, I did make this mistake on occastion

[Blueberry]

I emailed on Friday (since they hadn't sent the promised tracking info), and still haven't gotten a response.

So...the latest....

DH called today to find out where the crank and seatpost are. They had completely *forgotten* about it. They overnighted the crank to me today (and upgraded to a nicer crank since they didn't have what I wanted in stock) and I'm supposed to work with my travel consultant to figure out which set back they should order *since they don't have any in stock.* Nevermind the fact that they were supposed to have shipped one over a week ago.

Oh yeah, and they had *forgotten* that the bike shop was supposed to re-route all the cables (and apparently that they told me to wait on having it done).

UGH!!!!! Yes, it's about time to pack them back up (good thing they got DH on the phone - I would have told them not to bother sending the crank...)

Carrie Anne

[emily_in_nc]

Carrie Anne, I can't believe they are still jerking you around like this. Your bikes should be #1 priority with them, and they are obviously falling through the cracks.

FYI, I have 170mm cranks on my Crusoe (and on my Aegis, and on my mountain bikes), and I'm shorter than you (28.5" inseam). I also have a laidback seatpost on my Crusoe (Kalloy aluminum, same as came on my Terry Isis) and was able to get a good KOPS position with my saddle back far on the rails. I do have a shorter stem than I wanted, however. I had told them I wanted to end up with a 9-10 cm stem, and because they wouldn't make my top tube quite as short as I requested (even after the redo of the frame), I ended up with about a 5-6 cm stem. However, it hasn't proved to be a problem to date.

At this point, I would probably tell them I wanted money back for both bikes and just end it. They have not treated you the way companies that want to keep their customers should.

I am so sorry!

Emily

[Blueberry]

Emily~

We're still working with them - I really want a Bike Friday (folding...) or I never would have put myself through this! However, they did put in writing that we would be able to send back if they couldn't get the fit right, and we weren't happy (even if it's outside of 30 days).

They overnighted the crank, and we should have the bikes back from the shop today. Hopefully that will fix the knee position (I think it will, since I don't have a similar problem on DH's bike. So...we're still working with it. I also got a very apologetic email from the guy who dropped the ball. Plus, our sales person has gotten much more involved now, and seems to be keeping things moving.

Hope you'll get to ride some this weekend - looks like perfect weather!

Carrie Anne

[emily_in_nc]

Carrie Anne,

So glad things seem to be looking up! I hope the new crankset will help with the KOPS issue. It sounds like you have gotten their attention, so maybe the bad days are behind you. :)

No riding this weekend -- the weather is definitely very nice, but I still have bruises and bruised ribs from my most recent fall so am not riding for awhile. It even hurts to ride the trainer (from the ribs). Not terribly, but enough that I'm not very motivated to ride at the moment. I just need a mental break, I think. I'm so tired of falling and am going through another period of being a little spooked about riding. I can run and hike without pain, so we're doing that this weekend, plus yard work, and packing and getting ready for our trip to Key Largo -- leaving Monday! We'll be sailing (every day we hope), kayaking, etc. No bikes. The weather is supposed to be 80+ at least until next weekend, when it's going to get really cold here in NC and maybe just a little cooler than average in south Florida.

Good luck with your bike!

Emily