pushing vs spinning

[mimitabby]

okay you real experienced gals, here's your chance to make some sense out of this stuff.
yesterday i rode 25 miles with this VERY experienced rider (10 miles was the race) and he's a spinner. I rode the same course with my husband a few weeks ago and the difference was very surprising to me.

when i did the race with Peter, my legs burned for 10 miles. I never really got to push though!

when i did the same 10 miles with DH I could feel my heart rate going quite high on the 12% grade. I really pushed up that hill. And my legs never burned, well maybe a little, but not the whole 10 miles..
I am certain that my heart rate never went up that high with Peter, because we were spinning more.

When we were spinning, it felt like my legs were wasting a lot of energy, but that's NOT what my heart said.
I plan to work on this on my wind trainer this weekend, even though I do not understand it!

[Cassandra_Cain]

Interesting dilemna mimi...

I've been reading bundles and bundles on power lately since I just ordered a power meter.

Anyway, one of the interesting discoveries is this...

Given equal power production (and this is key)..

your heart rate will be lower at a lower cadence/bigger gear.

your heart rate will be higher at a higher cadence/smaller gear.

So at a glance it seems to suggest big gear/slow pedaling, but there is a caveat.

Pedaling a big gear @ slow cadence reduces your reserves much faster, basically it is not as sustainable - for most people that is. Whereas a faster cadence taxes your aerobic system more but can be kept up for much longer. Also big gear pedaling makes you more suspectible to injury obviously.

I would find whatever cadence works best for you and stick with it.

[songlady]

It has been my experience that spinning taxes the cardiovascular system and "pushing" (lower cadence) puts the emphasis on the leg muscles. Spinning=breathing heavier, Pushing=leg burn

[RoadRaven]

I found when when I tried to spin (although it wasn't really spinning, cause I sucked at it) my HR went up - my HR was much lower when I pushed a bigger gear at a lower cadence. I couldn't understand the mechanics of it either.

However, after anaylsing how spinning can improve my time (son made an excellent spread sheet which showed me the 'maths' of it) I realised that being able to turn my legs more quickly was an advantage in a race - and being able to do it consistently for 40 minutes would translate to a huge improvement in a TT (huge being a relative thing :p ).

So I have been working on my spinning on a spin bike. This is a spin bike like at the gym, so it has a fly wheel on the front.

So - the fly wheel does all the work (the pushing) when you spin... and I do the "step up" workout outlined in Gale Bernhardt's "The Female Cyclist". So what you are doing in this training workout is teaching your muscles to be quick, not making them work hard, because the fly wheeel carries your legs at the speed you set and your legs have to follow.

You warm up at a cadence of 90 (this was a yeah right moment when I read this - I never cycled at 90... however, having built this into my training programme throughout September, a warm up at 90 on the spin bike is now easy).

So, you warm up at 90 (10-15 minutes) then...
3 minutes ata cadence of 100
2 minutes at a cadence of 110
1 minute at a cadence of 120
Rest at 90 again (about 5-6 minutes) and then repeat

All I can tell you is that when doing step ups on a spin bike my HR does not go above 125 (my max is 184, my lactate threshold is 162).

When I do recovery rides on the road now, I try and stay spinning at a cadence of 90 and my HR is lower now than it was when I first tried spinning months ago.

The only time my HR goes up now when my cadence is high is when I am practicing sprinting, or at the end of a long ride when I am tired and I fall back to a bigger gear and a lower cadence.

Probably doesn't answer your "why" question but hopefully there is something of use here.

[limewave]

I'm in between being a pusher and a spinner. I'm working on becoming more of a spinner because, as Cassandra says, it's more sustainable and less likely to cause injury.

RoadRaven--I'll have to give those intervals a try next time I'm at spin class. I need to get a computer for my bike that monitors cadence.

While I was pregnant last summer, I had to push larger gears to be able to ride my bike. I just couldn't keep up if I tried to spin--it was too hard on my system. I grew very large leg muscles.

[mimitabby]

VERY useful indeed, Road Raven, thanks!

[RoadRaven]

LimeWave... til you get a cadence counter, you can just count it out yourself. You then get a "feel" for what is what, and you can guesstimate your cadence in the meantime - the trick is to lift it above what you can usually do, and just for short bursts... you're training the muscles to move more quickly, not asking them for endurance or strength.

Glad its of use, Mimi :)

[Lenusik]

Spinning and spinning again. In the long run you can achieve move by spinning than pushing. However, it is also very important to know the correct spinning motion so that you use your muscles efficiently. You have to become a "foot-floater". On the back side of the stroke your foot should look like you are pulling it out of mud. On the top part of your stroke, move your foot to 90 degrees as if you are pushing it down again. It is hard to do this at first especially if you have some other habits already. Practice it while you are moving slowly or uphill.

Pushing is fine sometimes especially if you are trying to chase someone, pass someone, start an attack, or simply lose weight.

[kelownagirl]

For me, spinning is much more effective, but the cadence will determine how fast I breathe. I have to try to keep my breathing under control because I have EI asthma. Anyway, I normally maintain a cadence of 86-90 when I'm riding. That is manageable and comfortable for me. When I spin faster, or try to maintain that cadence up a hill in too big a gear, my legs burn and I run out of air. I keep shifting down, trying to maintain about 85 without hurting my legs too bad. On the big hills, I end up in my easiest gear and still can't maintain a cadence of more than abut 45.

My max HR (so far) is about 185 and I hit that sometimes going up the Ugly Hill at the end of my rides... And I always have to stop and catch my breath at the top.