Wow, roadies are a-holes...who knew?

[GLC1968]

Let me start by saying that I'm a roadie. I like mountain biking, and commuting, but I LOVE road biking...fast.

I've discovered something new about my sport (and this may not come as any suprise to everyone else)...men on road bikes are jerks. I have been commuting back and forth to work for about 6 weeks now. For the first couple of weeks, I rode my road bike. Then I got a Terry Classic touring bike that I now ride (with straight bars & a more upright stance). Biking is very popular in my area, but MOST cyclists are recreational riders. There aren't many commuters. Anyway, when I commute on my road bike and I see other riders, they wave when I wave. This is true of all types of cyclists except perhaps the occasionial paceline group who are clearly intent on their training (and I wouldn't expect them to wave).

Last night while riding my commuter bike, I passed a couple of riders that I've seen before...this time, they did not return my wave. Then I passed two other guys, who clearly were not serious cyclists (one was in full kit but on a bike that totally didn't fit him and was huffing and puffing on a small hill....the other was wearing denim shorts and a baseball hat...but also on a road bike). These two glanced at me, I waved, and then both looked away. WTF?

I guess a rider on a straight bar Terry with a rack on the back isn't a 'real' cyclist in their eyes?

My DH suggested that I turn my bike around, blow past them up that hill, turn it around again, and repeat....that'll show them who the 'real' cyclist is! :p

[limewave]

The general trend I've noticed is that most roadies are arrogant elitists. I'm married to one and it drives me nuts.

[spokewench]

I call them "THE BOYS" - cause they are so immature and selfish.

[7rider]

My first reply was going to say "let me correct that statement: It's not 'men on road bikes are jerks', but "men are jerks.' It's just the odd good one we find that we can term "DH" that are the stand outs.
But then, as I continued to read your post, my reply became "Take heart. Those weren't "real cyclists" you saw."
It's not that men on road bikes are jerks, it's just that *those* men on road bikes are jerks. Or rather, those men are jerks. Or, those humanoids posing as men are jerks.
You get the idea.

[mimitabby]

what Regina said.
However, the guy puffing and panting up the hilll probably didn't want to talk to ANYONE!

[jobob]

This might come as a surprise - it did to me - but some of the rudest roadies I've ever encountered were women. More specifically, two or more women riding together in matching full-zoot team kits.

Maybe it makes more of an impression on me than similar behavior from men because I've pretty much come to expect it from men :rolleyes: .

[GLC1968]

because I've pretty much come to expect it from men :rolleyes: .

No kidding. You'd think I wouldn't be so suprised. ;)

I think the part that hit me the hardest was that when I was on my road bike, the same two guys (not the inexperienced ones) waved at me! I'm going to keep a running tab to see if these are just not-nice people, or if the bike had anything to do with it.

[littlegrasshopp]

My DF was a roadie when we met. He wouldn't even wave to ME on my beginner rides!! He's mostly a mountain biker now and I enjoy rides with him much more. He's realized he use to get way to "training" focussed and didn't enjoy what he was doing. Now he cycles and enjoys himself a lot more.

At a recent group trail ride, one of the guys stayed behind with his 6 year old daughter. They road the beginner trails and then played on the small road leading into the park. It's off a great set of roads for cyclists so they get lots of traffic by all bikes types. He started counting the roadies that went by and how many returned waves to his beatiful, cute little girl who was so excited to see others on bikes like her. 65 roadies passed them - not one single wave. He said every single mountain biker waved and several stopped to talk to her about her sweet bike and helmet :)

I hope it's just mindset.....a lot of the group rides here are so speed focussed and "paceline" focussed that they don't have time to enjoy what they're doing until it's over with. All our mountain bike trails have play areas so you can't get TOO into your time or training mindset!

[GLC1968]

Littlegrasshopp - you reminded me of something...

A couple of weeks ago, DH and I were riding one of our longer training rides. We had just completed about 75 miles and were on our way home. The route home took us past this intersection where two main roads and two major greenways (paved multi-use trails) converge. There is always a lot of car, bike and foot traffic through there. We sailed through the intersection (with the light, of course!) and rode past a young woman on a bike with three young boys behind her. They were all on the sidewalk waiting to cut across the road onto to the trail and I noticed that all of them were wearing helmets (not a common thing for kids around here...unfortunately). As we passed them, two of the boys half-waved at us in a somewhat timid way. DH and I both waved back enthusiasticaly. As I was in the back, I heard them say to each other..."did you see that?! They waved back!!"

What is wrong with our society that three seemingly responsible young riders would be so suprised that two adults on road bikes would wave to them?

It makes me want to ride my road bike more often just so that I can wave at everyone and help dispell this stigma!! :p

[xeney]

Hmm. I am trying to think how to phrase this so that I don't insult every cyclist everywhere ... I think in general, cyclists can be cliquish. (Maybe it would be better to say that people are cliquish, and cyclists are people?) When my husband and I are out together on our road bikes, the roadies are generally friendly enough. If I am out by myself on my road bike, male roadies are VERY friendly to me, not in an especially creepy way but just friendly. When I'm refilling my water bottle I get a lot of, "Wow, I wish I could get MY wife to ride" chit-chat, and if I'm stopped I get asked if I need a pump, I get hellos and nods and smiles, just general friendliness. But nobody else on the bike trail waves or says hello. The people on cruisers and mountain bikes, the people on old beaters, they just kind of ignore us.

If we are riding our old single-speed conversions, however, the roadies don't talk to us. They don't nod, they don't say hello, I doubt any of them would stop to help me fix a flat in those circumstances. Other people talk to us then, though. A lot of people around here ride bikes, but not everyone rides the same way. If I am riding my mixte around, the guys on fixies behave exactly the way the roadie guys do when I'm on my road bike. But I am pretty sure the fixie guys would not give me the time of day if I were wearing lycra and riding my road bike.

I noticed this a while ago and I try to make it a point to say hi to anyone with whom I make eye contact regardless of what they are riding. A couple of weeks ago when my husband and I were out on our road bikes, I noticed a guy on an old beater bike with a flat, and I offered him my pump, and he seemed completely floored that I had done that.

Exceptions to all generalizations: when I was first riding on my hybrid, trying to keep up with my husband on his road bike, and I was really dumb about trail etiquette, some of the older male roadies we ran into were incredibly nice and encouraging. In general I think the older guys are pretty nice.

[Cassandra_Cain]

GLC - Regina....you two are soooo very correct on this.

I was having a conversation of a similar nature recently. My overriding impression of guys who ride is much like what has been stated....elite, arrogant, pompous, wanna-be's who have absolutely no manners and would never be mistaken for having an ounce of courtesy.

It is really really off-putting because cycling can and should be an activity with a lot of social interaction. I mean here we are riding in a very car-driven society and yet your fellow riders, these guys, will thumb their noses at most everyone else. How very enlightened, not!

How discouraging to people starting out or even those of us like me, who actually enjoy a more moderate ride with conversation from time to time. I can totally see how a newer person would be disgusted with the sport and never even bother - I don't blame them.

I have yet to meet one single exception to this. The only ones who so much as even wave back, say hello, or show any semblance of being friendly are women. Though that isn't always the case.

So the only person I trust to ride with in this city who has class and is genuinely nice is Corsair.

[DDH]

Well I say hi to everyone and if they don't want to wave or say hi back "I just ignore it". It's rude, but hey sometimes people don't hear with wind blowing in their ears or they have their gaze fixed, concentrating and don't see you wave. Who knows.
I think my bike is a road bike with straight bars so if people snub me oh well, "their loss" as far as I am concerned. :D

Around here though, I don't run into many other riders, but when I do they have been generally friendly back. Maybe not over enthusiasticly so, but friendly none the less.
I'm not a racer or a rider that gets so fixated on my riding that I don't notice others, I am out there to have fun riding my bike and get in shape and hopefully lose some weight. I can understand though others that are training and not wanting their concentration interrupted.
Then there is just the fact that people now a days "a lot of them but not all" are just rude!! I don't like to generalize although I have been known to get frustrated and do it. LOL
Ecspecially with the man thing.;)

[velocilex]

I've encountered the same phenomenon as GLC1968: roadie guys will wave to me if I'm out on my road bike, but if I'm on the Kona, I may as well not exist. Never mind I may have just ridden a metric century on it. Never mind that they may have bothered to lift a finger off their handlebars the week before. Now, the guys who do this are mainly college guys-- this is the home of the Little 500 and those boys are Very Important. /sarcasm. On this past Sunday a group of three of us older types (with very nice road bikes, I might add) passed a bunch of Little Five roadies setting up for a time trial on a country road. All three of us said "Hi" or "Good Morning" to the nine young men as we rolled by. Not one answered, so I said over my shoulder, "You can say hello. We won't tell." Little brats. I've not encountered snotty women roadies around here mainly because I seldom see women roadies.

But I have to wonder if this attitude is a North American thing. I cycled France for seven weeks earlier this summer on my Kona hybrid that I had modified a little for touring. I never came across a roadie who didn't wave and say "Bonjour"-- often, they waved first. One day, I encountered a group of four roadies with nice kits and gorgeous bikes going in the opposite direction as I was rolling down a country road. All of them enthusiastically waved and hollered "Salut!" (which I thought was great-- Salut is informal, you say it to a buddy or kindred spirit). One of them even said "Hi"-- must have been my helmet that gave me away! The friendliness of the French roadies made it even harder to come back here and deal with the snobbery. However, I still say hello to everyone. If they don't want to acknowledge me that's fine. Maybe I won't acknowledge them when they need help on the side of the road some time.

[mary9761]

I've actually experienced this in different degrees depending on what I was wearing etc. When I first started riding my Navigator, I didn't have the cycling clothes, I wore shorts and tanks/t's whatever I could find that fit. Very few would make eye contact with me.
After I made my own bike gear, the first time I was on a ride, I got a different reaction from riders. Many would smile or at least return a wave or eye contact. When I have stopped to HELP people in street clothes on "beaters" in my full gear, I get GLARES from road bikes and others just because I've stopped to help someone who wasn't dressed "right" or on the "right" kind of bike etc. This has happened more than once so I know it was/is a trend.
I've had minor problems and pulled over and few would even ask if I was ok, most of the time it was walkers etc.
Fast forward to me taking a Trek Pilot 1.2 onto the MONON for a test ride on the MONON, nearly EVERY rider that I waved to/spoke to etc reciprocated. I kicked the chain off while trying to shift gears and the chain was in a strange position, since it wasn't my bike, I was trying to be VERY careful not to scratch it. Several riders did pass me, but I did have a guy on a road bike stop to help me put the chain back on correctly.
I know from experience that partly due to the fact road bikes are MUCH faster than I am, I'm going to be riding solo. Some are at least friendly on club rides (now that I've been coming for a year regardless of my NOT being on a road bike) but there are still some that have laughed in my face for not being on a road bike.
I treat people the way I'd like to be treated or have someone in my family treated if they were on the trails/roads etc. I have no control over how others were raised or choose to behave.:(

[mary9761]

short thread hijack http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a361/mary9761/My%20Smilies/threadjacked.gif
velocilex, are you planning to ride the Hilly in a couple weeks? I'm planning on being there myself. This will be my second and I hope to ride both days this year.
End Hijack

[Red Haired Girl]

Hmmmm, I must be riding in the wrong part of the country....or world! I've yet to even MEET another rider (okay, there were the two 10 year olds walking their bikes out the gate of their house, and they waved, btw), let alone be able to say hi. Now, granted, I've only ridden three times in the past 10 years (last Friday, Saturday, and Sunday) for a total of 38 miles - but I suspect there aren't a whole lot of bikers (of the quadriceps variety vice the Harley type) in these here parts.

BUT, should I meet another biker one the road (yep, I ride a road bike) you can be sure I'll wave and say hello!

Lara The Red (or, LTR - as if I had one!)

[GLC1968]

LTR - where in NC are you? I'm in GSO and I kind of consider that 'central NC'...are you close? Maybe we could get together for a ride sometime!!

I see TONS of riders in and around town, but when we head out into some of the more rural areas for our long rides, we see no one.

[Red Haired Girl]

GLC, ya beat me to it! I was just noticing that we shared the same state (although how they can sing a song about the "Old North State" with, oh, almost 40 others further north is beyond me...:confused: ). Anyway, I'm also in the center of the state, little town called Aberdeen (it staddles US1, about 60 miles south of Raleigh). The residents/denizens of Aberdeen rather like our little town...the rich folks right next door in Pinehurst probably consider Aberdeen to be 'the slums'. Fie on them!:p

Anyway, I live in LA (as in Lower Aberdeen), the historic part of town.

I'd love to ride with somebody else (with the understanding I'm relatively new to biking). At a guess I'd say we're a couple of hours apart. Is that too far?

Oh, there's a photo of me in my new bike gear on another thread...Red's First Ride in 10 Friggen Years.

Take care,
Lara

[velocilex]

short thread hijack http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a361/mary9761/My%20Smilies/threadjacked.gif
velocilex, are you planning to ride the Hilly in a couple weeks? I'm planning on being there myself. This will be my second and I hope to ride both days this year.
End Hijack
Actually, to respond and make it not-so-much of a jack, my Special Cycling Buddy and I ride the Hilly Routes just about every week (especially the Sunday route), and will probably ride the Sunday route on Saturday this year on our own. We did the Hilly proper last year and will never do it again because there were so many people out there who had no idea what they were doing it was frightening (not to mention the fried chicken lunch on Saturday and the "Gosh, we ran out of food" lunch on Sunday). Talk about snobs on bikes. Every weekend for the past month we've been accosted by guys on Litespeeds and Orbeas and Kleins who have come down here to take over the roads while they "practice" for the Hilly Hundred. They're rude and disrespectful and make it difficult for the rest of us to maintain friendly relationships with the locals who live along the route-- people we have to encounter every week as neighbors. But I hope you have a great time, Mary! There's something profoundly rewarding about completing the ride-- and the Sunday ride is beautiful-- well worth getting out of bed for!

[NJBikeGal]

I must say that on the RARE occasion, you can find a guy who is actually nice and curteous! I was out on a ride with a local club known for dropping people off the back and not stopping for mechanicals. Less than 1/4 mile into a B+ level ride, I blew a flat. I stop on the side of the road and look up to see the entire pack speeding away up the road. I turn back to fixing my flat and two guys show up next to me to help. They proceeded to be my riding buddies for the next 36 miles. They were great guys who actually cared to stop and help and then ride with me! Funny note: later on, we caught up to and passed the group that had dropped us. They were fixing a flat!

[jobob]

I don't really expect people to wave or call out hello all the time. More often than not I'll just smile and nod to someone I encounter on a bike, and if they say hi or wave I'll do so in return. If I pass then I'll call out, and say a cheery good morning and maybe a "howya doing" if it's an older person or someone who appears to be new.

What I consider rude behavior is more along the lines of zooming by very close with no warning, particularly on a narrow road with oncoming traffic, or zipping around me at a stopsign or a stoplight.

[KSH]

He started counting the roadies that went by and how many returned waves to his beatiful, cute little girl who was so excited to see others on bikes like her. 65 roadies passed them - not one single wave.

Yea, roadies have a bad rep of not waving and saying hello.

I know for me, when I can, I try to wave out to kids and cheer them on if they are riding. I want to be "one of the good ones".

But if I don't... it's only because I'm trying to keep my hands on my bike/brakes... or I'm very tired or focused on what I'm doing. Sometimes, if I've had a hard ride, I am zoned out and not really thinking about anything else but pedaling.

And out on the open road, when I see other cyclists across the road... I might nod my head, but I usually don't wave. Then again, I see a lot on the road sometimes... and it gets old having to wave that much.

What I really hate is when a pack of fast cyclists come out of no where to pass our group, and never call anything out. We aren't expecting it, and BAM! there they are. They could at lease say something.

Thus, if our group comes up on slower cyclists enjoying a social ride around their neighborhood, I always try to say hi or something to them.

I just think it's OK to cut people slack if they don't wave or say Hello to me. Maybe they saw 10 cyclists before me... maybe they are too tired to lift a hand... maybe they are having a really bad ride and feeling like crap... or just breathing too hard to even think about someone waving at them.

[SadieKate]

Warning, SadieKate is ranting again. A life lesson it’s taken a while to learn but made my rides so much more fun.

I think there are arguments on both sides of the waving issue. I also can get a little miffed over being ignored but I try not to expend anger and energy on it. I’ve realized over the years that everyone has their own agenda out on a ride and your expectations may not match up with the other riders’.

So s/he didn’t wave back? Were they perhaps lost in thought about a personal issue (such as a parent with recurring cancer or a child having problems in school). Are they riding sprint intervals and focused on maintaining a maximum pace? Are they chatting with someone else over a personal issue and listening to the friend’s response? Were they concentrating on a weird sound coming from their bike? From your car, do you wave at each and every driver on the road and expect them to wave back? The only time I see drivers wave at each other is rural farm roads. You do the one or two finger lift off the steering wheel and drive on. In the city (or on a crowded bike path), someone trying to wave at everyone becomes a nuisance and a danger because they aren’t concentrating on the congestion ahead.

My rides are so much more enjoyable since I’ve learned to laugh at people who actually look at you and then turn away but I don’t get angry or upset or call them names; they'd probably do the same thing in an elevator. I do call them names (and a-hole has definitely been the word of choice) if they do something unsafe which generally means they are riding the same direction as I. They pass on the right, pass too close, pass without warning, swerve in front of me, stop without warning, etc., etc., etc. Men and women are equally guilty.

This doesn’t mean you should stop waving but I hope you will become more sensitive to others’ agendas. As far as telling someone they should slow down and enjoy the ride more, why don’t you try a few rides with your legs screaming and your heart in your throat? Both have their place but you’ll find you can’t wave during the latter. You may also not be noticing the subtle finger wiggle from the bars. If you consistently expect more from me, I guess I’m an a-hole also. I fit the greeting or lack thereof to the circumstances of my chosen ride that day.

As far as the slams against men, both Mr. Jobob and Mr SadieKate are wavers par excellence. I’ve also been told by men that they are very careful about offering help to women because of the number of times they’ve been rudely snubbed. It’s a two-way street.

The upshot is, behave courteously but don’t get upset about a response that doesn’t meet your expectations. The other rider’s behavior isn’t necessarily wrong or discourteous but fits within their agenda for the day. Ride your own ride and find the zen of it.

PS - this in no way prevents me from maintaining the right to make sarcastic comments about people who look at you and then away, or wear earphones.

[Eden]

I would cut people some slack as well. I'm not sure about your area, but there are an abundace of cyclists around here. After seeing multiple threads on this and other boards about this same topic I decided to count the number of cyclists that I encountered one night. The ride was about 28 miles, with part of it being on the road and part on a dedicated bike/walk trail. I counted about 200 cyclists coming towards me that night. I didn't even count those that I passed. I did not wave or say hi to each and every one of them and I really don't think that makes me a snobby roadie. I will certainly reciprocate if someone waves and I if I see someone with a mechanical problem I will ask if they need any help, but I honestly don't think that I need to personally greet all 200 or so folks that I see in an hour and a half's ride even if we do share the commonality of riding a bike.

[CR400]

I try not to let it bother me if somebody doesn't wave. Another thing I thought of was most of the time I recognize people by their bikes not by face. So it could be they don't always recognize you because it is a different bike.
I have also been known to ride my road bike in a regular pair of shorts and a tee shirt even on training rides, so other roadies I see don't see it coming when I blow past them. You know all that she can't be a serious cyclist she isn't in spandex thing.

[mary9761]

Actually, to respond and make it not-so-much of a jack, my Special Cycling Buddy and I ride the Hilly Routes just about every week (especially the Sunday route), and will probably ride the Sunday route on Saturday this year on our own. We did the Hilly proper last year and will never do it again because there were so many people out there who had no idea what they were doing it was frightening (not to mention the fried chicken lunch on Saturday and the "Gosh, we ran out of food" lunch on Sunday). Talk about snobs on bikes. Every weekend for the past month we've been accosted by guys on Litespeeds and Orbeas and Kleins who have come down here to take over the roads while they "practice" for the Hilly Hundred. They're rude and disrespectful and make it difficult for the rest of us to maintain friendly relationships with the locals who live along the route-- people we have to encounter every week as neighbors. But I hope you have a great time, Mary! There's something profoundly rewarding about completing the ride-- and the Sunday ride is beautiful-- well worth getting out of bed for!
I worked the Saturday Chicken lunch last year and I was in AWE of the numbers of people participating. If you saw a silly woman dancing behind the chicken line making a fool of herself, that was me. I was having a BLAST. I agree the running out of food on Sunday was awful, that was the day I got to ride and all they had left was as we called them 'GRASS SANDWICHES'. :mad: At the same stop, we had to ask where the water was, they were actually taking the tents down when we got there LONG before they were supposed to be closed.
I must agree the Sunday route is absolutely gorgeous! I only did the 40 mile route as it was my first Hilly and I'd only been riding a few months, but I'm really hoping to do much better this year. We don't have hills like those down there in Indy here, but I'm getting better at the larger ones I've encountered here, so I'm hoping to ride more than I walk this year. :D

[silver]

Hi there! I'm riding the Hilly this year! Let's try to meet!!! I was out there riding last Thursday and didn't meet another "roadie" at until I rode back into Bloomington.

And to tie in with the thread he was in full Bacardi kit and I followed him for a few blocks and he never acknowledged me. And I was in "real" cycling clothes and on a Trek bike (admittedly an entry level 1000)

[slinkedog]

Warning, SadieKate is ranting again. A life lesson it’s taken a while to learn but made my rides so much more fun.

I think there are arguments on both sides of the waving issue. I also can get a little miffed over being ignored but I try not to expend anger and energy on it. I’ve realized over the years that everyone has their own agenda out on a ride and your expectations may not match up with the other riders’.

So s/he didn’t wave back? Were they perhaps lost in thought about a personal issue (such as a parent with recurring cancer or a child having problems in school). Are they riding sprint intervals and focused on maintaining a maximum pace? Are they chatting with someone else over a personal issue and listening to the friend’s response? Were they concentrating on a weird sound coming from their bike? From your car, do you wave at each and every driver on the road and expect them to wave back? The only time I see drivers wave at each other is rural farm roads. You do the one or two finger lift off the steering wheel and drive on. In the city (or on a crowded bike path), someone trying to wave at everyone becomes a nuisance and a danger because they aren’t concentrating on the congestion ahead.

My rides are so much more enjoyable since I’ve learned to laugh at people who actually look at you and then turn away but I don’t get angry or upset or call them names; they'd probably do the same thing in an elevator. I do call them names (and a-hole has definitely been the word of choice) if they do something unsafe which generally means they are riding the same direction as I. They pass on the right, pass too close, pass without warning, swerve in front of me, stop without warning, etc., etc., etc. Men and women are equally guilty.

This doesn’t mean you should stop waving but I hope you will become more sensitive to others’ agendas. As far as telling someone they should slow down and enjoy the ride more, why don’t you try a few rides with your legs screaming and your heart in your throat? Both have their place but you’ll find you can’t wave during the latter. You may also not be noticing the subtle finger wiggle from the bars. If you consistently expect more from me, I guess I’m an a-hole also. I fit the greeting or lack thereof to the circumstances of my chosen ride that day.

As far as the slams against men, both Mr. Jobob and Mr SadieKate are wavers par excellence. I’ve also been told by men that they are very careful about offering help to women because of the number of times they’ve been rudely snubbed. It’s a two-way street.

The upshot is, behave courteously but don’t get upset about a response that doesn’t meet your expectations. The other rider’s behavior isn’t necessarily wrong or discourteous but fits within their agenda for the day. Ride your own ride and find the zen of it.

PS - this in no way prevents me from maintaining the right to make sarcastic comments about people who look at you and then away, or wear earphones.


SK, I love you. :)

[sarahannecycle]

I know when I first was on the road, I'd wave and say hi to everyone. That was part of my focus, seeing others out riding, and being thrilled to be a part of it. I'm in no way an expert rider now, but I am more focused, and sometimes I just forget until the person's already past me. I agree with pp that being startled by someone speeding by is the worst part, and I really try to make some noise (you know, say hello or on your right or whatever) when I'm coming up on people because that's scary for me. Now I'll nod at someone if I catch their eye, but I do wonder if they notice b/c our bodies do jiggle on bumps or whatever- maybe it's too subtle, but usually it's what I've got in me.

I think now, for me, it's a little more about belonging to a subgroup which is spandex clad on road bikes, and faster and identifying with what those people are doing. I ride a scooter too, and when I'm putting along with my little helmet I am much more likely to smile or nod at people who have scooters like mine, esp if they are also wearing a helmet. I almost am never acknowledged by a harley, crotch rocket or big motorcycle rider ESP if they aren't wearing a helmet. I'm just not "serious" to them. I am certain that I noticed this a lot more when I started riding that too, and now, if I catch the person's eye, I'll nod but I'm usually thinking about how great it is to be out solo and free!

I think people just like to see other people doing what they're doing-- it's connection (and of course there are plenty of snobby people out there too).

If I'm friendly or smile to a woman with a baby and I don't have my baby with me, it's just a different kind of reception. The list goes on.

If I see a group of women riding, usually what I'm thinking is "How did you find each other!!!???? and can I come with??" I also usually have a **** eating grin on my face, because they are out there too. Guys on bikes are just a given, so I pay less attention to them.

[SalsaMTB]

DH and I have sort of experienced the opposite when it comes to roadie vs. mountain biker. Waving, I would say about half wave back, half don't. I don't always wave though, sometimes I just want to focus and ride. I'll see someone on the other side of the street in the corner of my eye, but I don't focus on them, I focus on my path.

When I say though I've experienced the opposite I mean more in times of need. I was on a road ride w/ dh and others on my mountain bike and got a flat. I stopped to fix it as they went ahead. Every single roadie who passed slowed down to ask and I was OK and/or needed help. Every single one. Then, DH was on his way back and saw I was still working on it so he took over and I continued on his bike. Every single roadie that passed him also asked if he was OK. We were both talking about how nice all the roadies were when we were trying to fix the flat on our mountain bike.

On the other hand, DH crashed hard on one of the trails. Only one of many riders asked if he was OK, and it was more of a "you better say yes because I'm not slowing down" are you OK. Dh was sitting on the side of the trail, sans shoe, arms and legs bleeding, and his bike was on the other side of the trail. No one stopped to check on him. The one guy who did ask, didn't slow down and proceeded to tell him he better move his sunglasses because they're in the middle of the trail and might get run over. As Dh limped back to the trailhead with his bike, going the wrong way, still no one asked.

So, based on those experiences, I sort of think the roadies are nicer when it's needed. Sure they might not wave every time, but if you're stopped on the side of the road, they'll check up on ya. Can't say the same for the mountain bikers...

[SadieKate]

Oh, I've experienced jerks in every group. I've yet to have a roadie call me "Sweetheart" (said in a very nice way). If something ever happens to Bubba, I'll have to track that guy down . . . . :p

[xeney]

I did not mean to suggest that I think people are being cliquish if they don't wave to everyone they pass. I don't wave or say hi to 90% of the people we pass because we don't make eye contact, and I don't see how that can be construed as rude. (Although when I am riding alone, most of the male roadies passing in the other direction do say hello or nod or whatever. Maybe they ARE flirting and I am just naive.) I am thinking more about rest stops or flats or other times when it would be natural to say hi or offer help.

And even then, it might not always be cliquishness. If I'm on a mountain bike I don't have a tube to offer to someone on a road bike, and vice versa. My frame pump works for both kinds of valves so I can offer it to anyone who needs it, but not everyone carries that kind of pump. I also don't think cyclists have a responsibility to help each other fix flats, etc. -- it's nice to offer to help if someone looks like they forgot their pump or patch kit, and depending on how remote the area is you might be heading into "basic decency" territory to not leave someone stranded if you could have helped, but mostly I think it is fine if everybody just pays attention to their own ride.

[Trekhawk]

Oh, I've experienced jerks in every group. I've yet to have a roadie call me "Sweetheart" (said in a very nice way). If something ever happens to Bubba, I'll have to track that guy down . . . . :p

LOL - Oohh Im telling on you.:D

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Strange... everyone I pass always exchanges greetings or smiles or nods with me, roadie, non-roadie, man, women, kid, whatever they are. I live in a fairly rural area, with lots of bikers. Is it a city/rural thing maybe?

About half the time I ring my bell, ching-ching, just before I say Hi or smile, and I always seem to get a friendly response. But I get friendly responses when I don't ching too.
Maybe some people are not getting enough time to see a big smile or hear a big hello and respond to it before the opportunity is past?

[GLC1968]

I was just talking about this with a friend at lunch and we came across an interesting point.

When I lived in a major city (Boston, Tampa, etc), I rarely said 'hi', waved or even made eye contact with people when walking down the street. It just wasn't something most people did for whatever reason. Here in this place (the south), it's EXTREMELY common. To the point that when we were driving around with our realtor looking at houses, I just assumed that he knew EVERYONE here because everyone waved. Turns out, it wasn't that he knew these people...it's just how people here interact.

This is why it struck me as so odd that I'd be snubbed. I certainly don't expect everyone to wave (I know I don't always do so myself) but the look and then look away when the week before you waved to me (in the exact same place) just stood out like a huge social blunder. It made me think.

I just hope everyone here doesn't think I'm some super crazy chick who rides around all day waving frantically at every bike I see in the hopes that they'll wave back! :p

[Cassandra_Cain]

My impression is this thread has become more focused on whether people 'wave back' or say 'hi'.

Well I think it is only fair that this isn't always possible or a big deal - waving back/saying hi I mean. Oftentimes there is a median or divider along the road and I am definitely not even bothering to look at a rider on the other side, 50 feet away! Sometimes, as has been mentioned you can be totally zeroed in on your ride (or too busy sucking wind!) to be waving at people.

What irks me about roadies is, among other things:

A) Unsafe passing - you know, they go by you like you are standing still and give you all of maybe 3 inches with absolutely no warning, nothing. So much as slight move by me in one direction or another, maybe to avoid glass or something on the road, and crash thanks to this type nonsense by others.

B) Not helpful at all - you have a mechanical or whatever and dozens of riders go by w/o so much as even glancing at you, much less asking if you need help. So much for a sense of community.

C) Bike clubs and group rides - Despite having lived in several states, countries and places, I've yet to see a bike club make any real effort to encourage newer riders. All they do is parrot the same old tunes....you'll get dropped, dropped, dropped, if you can't go 728 mph, ride a roadbike, and keep up.

I have far less of a problem with people not waving or whatever, than the 3 things above which to me are a much bigger deal.

So my conclusion is that roadies are, as a group, not much better than car drivers and motorists. It is all me, me, me.

Indivdually there are some great people, on this board for example, but on the road I don't expect it.

[PinkBike]

I know when I first was on the road, I'd wave and say hi to everyone. That was part of my focus, seeing others out riding, and being thrilled to be a part of it. I'm in no way an expert rider now, but I am more focused, and sometimes I just forget until the person's already past me. I agree with pp that being startled by someone speeding by is the worst part, and I really try to make some noise (you know, say hello or on your right or whatever) when I'm coming up on people because that's scary for me. Now I'll nod at someone if I catch their eye, but I do wonder if they notice b/c our bodies do jiggle on bumps or whatever- maybe it's too subtle, but usually it's what I've got in me.

I think now, for me, it's a little more about belonging to a subgroup which is spandex clad on road bikes, and faster and identifying with what those people are doing. I ride a scooter too, and when I'm putting along with my little helmet I am much more likely to smile or nod at people who have scooters like mine, esp if they are also wearing a helmet. I almost am never acknowledged by a harley, crotch rocket or big motorcycle rider ESP if they aren't wearing a helmet. I'm just not "serious" to them. I am certain that I noticed this a lot more when I started riding that too, and now, if I catch the person's eye, I'll nod but I'm usually thinking about how great it is to be out solo and free!

I think people just like to see other people doing what they're doing-- it's connection (and of course there are plenty of snobby people out there too).

If I'm friendly or smile to a woman with a baby and I don't have my baby with me, it's just a different kind of reception. The list goes on.

If I see a group of women riding, usually what I'm thinking is "How did you find each other!!!???? and can I come with??" I also usually have a **** eating grin on my face, because they are out there too. Guys on bikes are just a given, so I pay less attention to them.

i totally agree with sarahannecycle, when i commuted on my mountain bike i felt a kinship with mountain bikers, now that i'm a 100% roadie i feel a connection with roadies. but i always stop for someone who looks like they need help, whatever they're riding. i saw a woman on a cruiser stopped on the side of a road, and i stopped and asked her if she needed anything, and she went on and on about how i was the only bicyclist who stopped. turns out she didnt need help, was just checking out the complex. another time was like destiny, i was driving my truck and saw a woman pushing her bike, and i picked her up and brought her and the bike back to my house and fixed her tire - it was perfect because i had mountain bike tubes and slime that i didnt know what to do with!!

kids are the greatest, ALWAYS wave to kids, it makes them feel special.

[SouthernBelle]

I love it when kids get excited to see me on the road. I've had that happen several times.

I won't necessarily stop for someone who just looks like they are taking a break. But I usually give a shout out.

To whoever it was in NC who didn't see other roadies, in the South you aren't going to see them in the summer unless you are out early. We start organized rides early to beat the heat.

[betagirl]

I'm not sure that it's that they're "roadies" but more a reflection of their personality. Like stopping or pausing to see if you're ok if you have a mechanical. Would these people stop if you were having an issue walking on the sidewalk (like twisted your ankle or something)? There's also a social phenomenon called the diffusion of responsibility, where people basically assume someone else will stop and help. So nobody ends up stopping and helping. I assume though that as a basis of comparison mtn bikers stop? Maybe because you're not out on the road it's perceived differently? Just a thought.

I'm a "roadie" and I don't say hello or wave to most people I pass. I smile and nod. But not always. Sometimes I'm in my own little world and am thinking about whatever. I may be crabby and not feeling all that outgoing or social. Why is there a requirement that because you're on your bike you need to be so friendly? We don't go around waving at each other in our cars. Again, just playing devils advocate :) I know, cycling is a community supposedly. And it is nice when we're all more courteous and kind to each other. It did used to bother me if people wouldn't return the wave or smile. Now it's not a big deal to me. I guess I'm complacent.

As for the reaction based on your bike. This I've seen. Though I don't have a hybrid. But I do have a fixed gear that I just started riding. 99% of the messengers in the city ride fixed gears. I usually don't get acknowledged by them when I'm on my Trek, but today I got a couple of nods.

I've ridden with a couple of clubs, and yes there are some a-holes in there. But some are nice guys, down to earth. The club I ride with now is more down to earth than the last one. I had one guy stay with me when I fell off the group and helped pull me back up. He could have easily dropped me. I could probably never return the favor, so I got him a cup of coffee when we were done :)

For me cycling is more what I get out of it. When I start getting bent out of shape because of how other people act, it loses some appeal. Just my $.02

[Kitsune06]

I've found anyone in full lycra has a 50/50 chance of being a total jerk. I tend to ride in regular cargo shorts and dri-fit top because I'm going to the gym (most days) or on a spin 'round the country roads, and people look at my clothes and snort "You're not a *real* biker."

...I'm on a *bike* carrying *cargo* wearing full *protective gear* and *blinky lights*... I tend to think that because I'm actively avoiding using a car to do my errands, I *am* a *real* biker, thankyouverymuch. :rolleyes: I feel like saying "'kay, boys, let's go out to the park and we can bounce our 'real' bikes down the rock gardens, and we'll see who seems to be the 'real' biker, and who's the freddish poser."

*sigh*

[7rider]

I think the puzzlement here over waving to cyclists vs. waving in cars or as pedestrians, is that pedestrians are so....well, pedestrian. Are cars are just all over the place. There is nothing "special" about them. But cyclists are a much smaller community. Hence, it's more akin to that small country road someone mentioned where folks wave. That is why many folks expect (hope?) that a wave will be responded to in kind.
Sure, many folks zone out on bikes. They're concentrating on their own thing, they're dodging obstacles, checking their speed, watching for traffic. A million things that take away their attention for another cyclist coming at them on the other side of the street. The brain may register them for a nanosecond and say "Not a car. Not a threat." and go on dodging glass. It's not a snub.
But when a cyclist who you have seen before, who does acknowledge you when you catch eye contact, then disses you when making similar eye contact because (perhaps) of the type of bike you have, that is a snub.
All things being equal on the rides, you can almost hear the snub. What is the line from that movie "A Knight's Tale"? - "You have been weighed, measured, and found lacking"?? Is that a fair or paranoid interpretation? Who knows? I don't want to crawl inside the minds of those guys.
Just a little respect, a little courtesy for all riders, is all that we can ask for. Because some day it will be you on the side of the road with a flat and no spare in your saddle bag, thankful for someone who stops and says "Got everything you need? You okay?"

[KSH]

A) Unsafe passing - you know, they go by you like you are standing still and give you all of maybe 3 inches with absolutely no warning, nothing. So much as slight move by me in one direction or another, maybe to avoid glass or something on the road, and crash thanks to this type nonsense by others.

WOW! This pisses me off and scares me! I hate when they do this. Especially when you aren't expecting some pelaton to be cruising down the road you are on.


B) Not helpful at all - you have a mechanical or whatever and dozens of riders go by w/o so much as even glancing at you, much less asking if you need help. So much for a sense of community.

Well, all the men I ride with... are kind and a few of them have helped me out when I needed it. But, I ride with groups and they see me weekly.


C) Bike clubs and group rides - Despite having lived in several states, countries and places, I've yet to see a bike club make any real effort to encourage newer riders. All they do is parrot the same old tunes....you'll get dropped, dropped, dropped, if you can't go 728 mph, ride a roadbike, and keep up.


The club I belong to has many different rides. There are rides where yea, you will get dropped. And then there are the no drop rides... where no man gets left behind. Even if the sweeper (who knows the way home) and the lone rider has to pull themselves in.

My club is great... I feel very lucky to have such a wonderful one in my area... cause it sounds like other clubs suck.

[yogabear]

I'm a roadie, but really more of a mtn. biker at heart :)

My DH is a cat 2 road racer :) He's a sweet, respectful guy, especially towards women...He says we are smarter, better looking, and tougher than guys...What a sweetie, huh?

I'm super friendly to everyone, so that is what I usually get in return. I've had a few roadie guys help me this year with mechanicals on the side of the road...they did it just to be nice. I also ran into some pretty rude people on the road...some were male, some were females, some were dogs, and some were cars :) I notice if I don't look for the rude behavior, I don't notice it LOL.

For me though, it's how the guys act off the bike. I know that road racing and training are very difficult endeavors firsthandedly. I myself can't always muster a smile when my HR is 180+ :) But, I telepathically will send love or kind energies to others and notice that it is returned...Hmmm, I am starting to wonder about this quantum physics stuff...It works! :)

I personally have an issue with guys who put racing and training above their families, for instance. This is off the bike of course. I also realize that it is judgmental for me to look at this since it's not my life.

My DH off the bike is a very caring and loving. Some of his biking friends actually had the audacity to razz him about taking my bike out of his truck for me at races or putting it on the trainer for me, etc. (I have upper body injuries and such and am short LOL). The biking friends don't see how I help at home...fix water bottles, make healthy food, do bike laundry...Last time I checked marriage is a teamwork sport LOL...But, then again, none of them have wives who race!!! I almost told these people to kiss me in a special place, but oh well, I'm human and I judge too :)

I hear ya though :)

[Eden]

Some of his biking friends actually had the audacity to razz him about taking my bike out of his truck for me at races or putting it on the trainer for me, etc. (I have upper body injuries and such and am short LOL). The biking friends don't see how I help at home...fix water bottles, make healthy food, do bike laundry...Last time I checked marriage is a teamwork sport LOL...But, then again, none of them have wives who race!!! I almost told these people to kiss me in a special place, but oh well, I'm human and I judge too :)


Wow - most of the guys are jealous that my husband has a wife that races too. I doubt any of them would razz him about doing things for me - they only wish that their wife/girlfriend/SO shared their interests. The only down side for him is that I've been doing better than he has so he gets to be known as Oh - your Eden's husband :D

[yogabear]

Eden, you just cracked me up :) You go, girl!

I was telling my hubby about this thread last night on our mtn. bike ride. He said that he is too nice...that is part of his problem. I told him to save the niceness for off the bike and be intense while racing :)

It cracks me up though here where I live...So many guys are all intense while road racing. I mean, I know it's all about balance, but still, riding off after a race in their SUV's or mini vans, listening to Bare Naked Ladies...that is what they do :) Hee hee! I know this is really mean to say and judgmental, but it still makes me giggle. Just as I am sure people make fun of me for my pre-race warm-up music...Johnny Cash :) LOL

I like the sticker that says, 'If it has tires or testicles, you know it's gonna mean trouble' :) ROTFLMAO...

Okay, I've been mean for the day :p

[Aggie_Ama]

I only skimmed this thread.... My DH must be the only roadie guy that is worth a darn. He rides slower for me, waves at everyone and offers to help stranded cyclists.

He even gets annoyed when people don't wave back. And he waves or says hello to the people out on the sidewalks riding their Walmart bikes. Of course I have noticed he is a rare breed, that is why he is a keeper! :D

[mary9761]

I like the sticker that says, 'If it has tires or testicles, you know it's gonna mean trouble' :) ROTFLMAO...

Okay, I've been mean for the day :p

OK! I just had to clean my screen!!! Tooooooo Funny! I may have to steal that line sometime :D :D :D

[TrekJeni]

short thread hijack http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a361/mary9761/My%20Smilies/threadjacked.gif
velocilex, are you planning to ride the Hilly in a couple weeks? I'm planning on being there myself. This will be my second and I hope to ride both days this year.
End Hijack

Hijacking again!
Myself and a fwe other friends are coming too! We're camping in tent city. Come look us up!

Jeni

[Beth-Ro]

This thread reminded me of a crisp spring afternoon with my DH. We had ridden our mountain bikes over to a friend's to play in the woods behind his house. On the way home our paths crossed with a team, dressed in full team kit, pacelining and all serious-like. As we passed, I clearly heard one of them call out "paper route"!!! My DH looked at me and asked "Did he just call us paper route"? Yes, I believe he did. :rolleyes:

Ah, arrogance!

[KnottedYet]

I tend to wave or nod or say "hi" if I'm not gasping for breath. There is a big hill on the Bike Route, and I often see the same folks there. The protocol seems to be big happy friendly greetings if you're not zooming near the bottom of the hill or panting your way up it, or no greeting if you are. And no hard feelings either way.

When I see stranded bikers I stop if it's a woman. I slow and holler out "need help?" if it's a man. Yes, I'm paranoid, but that's a fault I can live with.

As far as the arrogance... hee hee. I get to see these dudes when they come to get their boo-boos taken care of. Feet of clay, I'm tellin' ya, feet of clay! I can make 'em suffer more than any hill!

(but really, I'm a nice person:D )

[silver]

Hijacking again!
Myself and a fwe other friends are coming too! We're camping in tent city. Come look us up!

Jeni


Let's discuss closer to the time! I'd love to meet the infamous trekjeni :)

[mary9761]

Hijacking again!
Myself and a fwe other friends are coming too! We're camping in tent city. Come look us up!

Jeni

I just received my volunteer packet in the mail today. I'll be working in the snack bar Friday night in the gymnasium where registration is. I'll be sure to have my camera handy. :D

[emily_in_nc]

One thing interesting I've noticed: for the last three Saturdays, DH and I have ridden our Bike Fridays with four panniers and rack pack each to the farmer's market and food co-op for groceries. We see a lot of roadies out during these rides, and even the serious ones in full team kit tend to wave, sometimes even before we do! ALL the women wave, but even a large % of the men, riding alone or in pairs. I dunno if they respect us because we look like we're traveling across country rather than just across county, or what, but it's interesting that even riding little-wheeled bikes and fully loaded, we get a lot of friendly attention. Kinda nice!

Emily

P.S. One (male) cyclist even yelled out "good luck!" - I guess he assumed we were going a bit farther than the 10 more miles home. :D

[CycleChic06]

Ok now, I think we all need to take a step back and look at why we are riding in the first place. Cycling is an indivdual sport, yes there are teams and groups, but it is mainly individual. I, personally, don't ride for anyone except myself, for my own well being and because it's great exercise and I really love being out on the road. So who really cares if there are other people out there that don't wave back? Who really cares what other people think of your equipment? I could care less that some roadie jerk out there thinks I'm less of a rider because I don't wear a team jersey. It's great when other cyclists are friendly and you can meet some really nice people while out on the road. But there are a lot of jerks out there. I have been on the recieving end of some condsecending and rude comments from other cyclists, but why should I care? Why should anyone care what anyone else thinks, as long as they're having a good time.

[emily_in_nc]

Ok now, I think we all need to take a step back and look at why we are riding in the first place. Cycling is an indivdual sport, yes there are teams and groups, but it is mainly individual. I, personally, don't ride for anyone except myself, for my own well being and because it's great exercise and I really love being out on the road. So who really cares if there are other people out there that don't wave back? Who really cares what other people think of your equipment? I could care less that some roadie jerk out there thinks I'm less of a rider because I don't wear a team jersey. It's great when other cyclists are friendly and you can meet some really nice people while out on the road. But there are a lot of jerks out there. I have been on the recieving end of some condsecending and rude comments from other cyclists, but why should I care? Why should anyone care what anyone else thinks, as long as they're having a good time.

Good questions all. I guess for me, it comes down to the sense of community I feel with other cyclists. Like we're in our own little sub-culture, and it's kinda us against the big, bad cars and truck. I know that since we're both riding, we share at least some values, be it staying active/healthy, enjoyment of the outdoors, environmental/eco concerns, or whatever. Because I feel that sense of having at least something in common with every other cyclist on the road, from newbies riding hybrids on bike paths to racers in full-zoot kit in pacelines, I like to wave and/or say hello when I can (not if there's approaching traffic or I need both hands on handebars for whatever reason), and it's kinda nice if they do the same. I don't take it too personally if they don't, but it always gives me a good feeling when they do, like we share a little secret.

It's kinda like I feel a sense of camraderie with other Honda Element drivers...hard to put into words, but definitely there. I'd be more likely to let an Element cut in front of me in traffic than, say, a Hummer. :D

Emily

[Aggie_Ama]

My theory with waving to everyone I see is to welcome them into our sport. I remember being a nervous newbie and I just imagine anyone I see might be trying this for the first time. It is about making everyone I see feel welcome and know that they couldn't have picked a better thing to be doing.

Every morning I am so happy to see this elderly gentleman who lives near me riding his hybrid. He gets out there at 6:30 in the morning with his lights and helmet and rides the same route. Honestly it warms my heart to see him because he looks like he is enjoying himself.

[donnambr]

I don't expect roadies (or any other cyclists) to smile, wave, or offer me verbal greetings as I pass them. My only wish is to not be sneered at as I ride by. That's all.

[Bad JuJu]

Good questions all. I guess for me, it comes down to the sense of community I feel with other cyclists. Like we're in our own little sub-culture, and it's kinda us against the big, bad cars and truck.
This pretty well sums up my take on the "to wave or not to wave" issue. I don't necessarily feel slighted if another cyclist doesn't wave--sometimes they're working too hard or just zeroed in on what they're doing, and that's OK. But I try to wave as much as possible, even if by "wave" I just mean lifting my fingers off the handlebar in a subtle, mute greeting--doesn't have to be a big old "howdy neighbor" love-fest. Just a tiny little gesture that says "We're all in this together, and isn't it great?"

As a not-so-svelte, slightly-past-middle-aged woman cyclist, I've had to get over being bugged by others who wonder what the heck I think I'm doing on a bike. Still, it's nice to see someone else acknowledge with their subtle wave that I am in fact "in the club," by which I mean the community of cyclists everywhere.

[littlegrasshopp]

To wave or not to wave doesn't bother me so much. I take it as they are in training mindset and don't want to be brought out of it. Some of you guys ride pretty close to each other's wheels!! BUT I do get offended when I'm showing up for my first beginner, no drop ride and no one welcomes me, talks to me AFTER I'VE said hello, bothered to listen when I say my name, and they LEAVE me on the first hill of a NO DROP ride. We have a lot of LBS that play host to group rides here and it is VERY hard to get people to let you into their inner circle...even the beginner rides. I never felt like I was in a friendly group showing up for these rides. I felt like it was a big competition to see who we could all drop first.

Having said that - I now have many friends that are roadies and don't participate in the LBS rides and are wonderful, no matter what bike they are on. I assumed it was part of group riding culture. I hope I'm wrong...

[pkq]

He's a sweet, respectful guy, especially towards women...He says we are smarter, better looking, and tougher than guys...What a sweetie, huh?

I'd say smart and a keeper, too.

[deedolce]

Interesting read! Is it regional? Cultural? Perception?

Personally, my bike handling skills suck, especially when I'm tired, and so my hands stay on the handlebars! :rolleyes: But I have a good nod.

Older male roadies hereabouts, I've found very friendly as a breed. Nice smiles and hellos. Those that are grumpy; well, I bet they're grumpy everywhere. Our young racing team boys are well raised younguns, and may even nod (they also are well supported by our local bike club) The snootiest seem to be the college boy racers.

When I see another female rider, especially solo, it's a big rush of happy for me and feeling a part of a secrest sisterhood or something. lol. They all, in my selective memory, seem to smile and say 'hello'.

Maybe I have a 'happy aura' from being out on the road, riding. I do love to ride.

[KnottedYet]

BUT I do get offended when I'm showing up for my first beginner, no drop ride and no one welcomes me, talks to me AFTER I'VE said hello, bothered to listen when I say my name, and they LEAVE me on the first hill of a NO DROP ride. We have a lot of LBS that play host to group rides here and it is VERY hard to get people to let you into their inner circle...even the beginner rides. I never felt like I was in a friendly group showing up for these rides. I felt like it was a big competition to see who we could all drop first.

What about starting a TE ride where you are? Now that you know how the road-riding works, you could organize a few fun rides for the TE'ers in your area.

[Bad JuJu]

Littlegrasshopp, that's a great idea that Knotted suggested. And even if you can't find any or many TE'ers in your area, you could start your own little group.

In my area, there's a sort of branch of the local club, called the "Sweet Sixteens" because they're a no-drop group who try never to exceed a max no-hill, no-wind speed of 16mph. You could try organizing such a group yourself, by posting flyers at LBSs, gyms, even grocery stores. You could make the max speed anything you want; the idea is to appeal to people who would otherwise hesitate out of fear of being treated as you have been. So you can all enjoy your rides and even work on improving together.

Gee, I sound like such an expert, with my grand total of 4 club rides. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.:D

[pyxichick]

I find that I got more waves when I was riding early season, before a ton of people were out, and whenever I ride in inclement weather.

On a warm summer day, with the trails and roads clogged with cyclists of all sorts, I think it just becomes tedious for people to try to acknowledge everyone.

I just smile at everyone and if they say hi then I say hi back.

[pkq]

I've had people from both genders say and so ugly things to me. Of the two, women have been the most unkind to me. That's one reason I am wary of women. For some reason, they just don't like me very much, which is OK. We are all human and trying to get through life without receiving or causing too much damage.

[BadgerGirl]

I smile all of the time. I can't help it...I am having fun. I think that is a good greeting and I don't have to remove my hand to do it. I have waved and said "how are you doing?" to some people; it just depends.

But as long as you are bringing this topic up, I am wondering if people are just getting isolated. I grew up in the Midwest and it was common to say "hi" to people on the street; even if you didn't know them. As you were driving in the countryside, poeple would wave as they passed by. What happened to this gesture? And now we put up 6' fences to seperate our yards. When I was little, we played football in our neighbors back yards with the trees being the endzones. Are we becoming less social? And is this causing us to be rude, insensitive, angry, and worse? What do you all think?

[Bluetree]

I was thinking about this thread on a ride the other day. I wanted to see what kind of rider gave me the most response. It was early in the morning and the crowds were not out yet, so it was a small sampling. I passed only a hundred-or-so cyclists on a 25-mile ride and responses ranged from a nod, a smile, a fingers-off-the-hood-wave and a hearty "good morning!" but here are the results of my unofficial tally:

• Male roadies (relaxed pace): 60-70% said hi first or responded*
*Note: older roadies 30+ responded more often than younger ones
• Female roadies (relaxed pace): Only 3, but 2 responded.
• Roadies (in obvious training or paceline): Didn't bother, either way

• Male hybrid/MTBers/commuter: None said hi first, about 10% responded :eek:
• Female hybrid/MTBers/commuter: None said hi first, about half responded

• Male recreational bikers: None said hi first, about half responded
• Female recreational bikers: None said hi first, about half responded
Note: some were obvious tourists and may not have spoken English. Riders with kids responded most often.

To clarify, I was a 30-something 105-lb gal riding alone, on a Specialized road bike in full Castelli gear. I think roadies are just more accustomed to respond to their "own". I've even been told (jokingly, I think) by a couple of roadie pals, "You're one of us now."
Had I been on a hybrid, or if I had been wearing my Nellie Olson Rocks! sweatshirt, I'm sure my results would have been different. But that test is for another day...

[Aggie_Ama]

I smile all of the time. I can't help it...I am having fun. I think that is a good greeting and I don't have to remove my hand to do it. I have waved and said "how are you doing?" to some people; it just depends.

But as long as you are bringing this topic up, I am wondering if people are just getting isolated. I grew up in the Midwest and it was common to say "hi" to people on the street; even if you didn't know them. As you were driving in the countryside, poeple would wave as they passed by. What happened to this gesture? And now we put up 6' fences to seperate our yards. When I was little, we played football in our neighbors back yards with the trees being the endzones. Are we becoming less social? And is this causing us to be rude, insensitive, angry, and worse? What do you all think?

Good question Badger. My university had a tradition of saying "Howdy" to everyone you made eye contact with while on campus. It was such a friendly environment, even though the enrollment was 44,000 my freshman year. To this day when I am wearing one of my shirts from there in public I will get a "Howdy".

If I just say hi to complete strangers at the store they think I am a) Flirting (happily married, thanks) b) Selling something or c) Too odd to give the time of day to. Rarely would I get a happy smile back, it is usually a puzzled look.:rolleyes:

[CyclChyk]

... and people look at my clothes and snort "You're not a *real* biker."

*sigh*

Ok so yesterday was the VERY first day I went out withOUT overshorts hiding my bike shorts. After having lost 40lbs I finally feel a lil more confident and DH said "Woah...... looking good" (GREAT confidence booster)

Do I count as a real biker?? Oh wait, I had on an Old Navy Sweatshirt..... damn I was so close to being a real biker.........

And FWIW, I never WAVE to anyone. My balance isn't good enough yet and I am usually going too fast (haha.... had to laugh at myself for that one). But I do nod and say "hi" as I whip by. Some respond, some don't, but I never think negatively based on the hello or lack thereof.

[Velobambina]

Amanda - I recall hearing of a recent study that concluded that people are becoming more isolated. A surprising percentage of folks have no close friends. Sorry, can't remember the details. But you are right: I've noticed the same trend toward rudeness and a growing pervasiveness of the "it's all about me" attitude. I just try to do unto others and hope the decent manners my parents taught me might rub off on those whom I encounter. ;)

[Crankin]

I have noticed the same results about waving and friendliness as reported here. More roadies nod or wave to me since I got my Kuota; for God's sake i had a Trek 5200 before, so what's the deal with that? I'm always wearing cycling clothes, too. I see the same people a lot on my after work rides. Now I know which ones to nod to and which ones wave. The commuters never wave...
People on hybrids or recreational riders seem shocked when I say hi. A funny story relating to this is for years we saw a guy running on the streets in our old neighborhood as we rode. We called him the "mean" guy. He never smiled or waved, said hi when you said hi to him. My son made it a "thing" to get this guy to talk back to him as he rode by. Finally, he got some response back, after like 2 years. About 2 years after that we found out it was Bill Rodgers, the 5 time winner of the Boston Marathon! He lived about half a mile from us. He got nicer when he had some injury and was walking instead of running...

[Velobambina]

Robin - That's a hoot. I guess having to walk humbled him, eh?

[run it, ride it]

Sometimes I don't look up because I'm shy. And afraid of mean looks.

And then there are heterosexual couples. As a single young female, a friendly hello is almost impossible to pull off. The male will avoid eye contact at all costs because he's afraid his significant other will think he was checking me out, and the female is too busy making sure her significant other isn't looking anywhere near me. Even elderly couples. If I do look up and smile, I try to make contact with the female first to lessen that look shot at me like I'm some sort of evil temptress on wheels. Don't get me wrong, sometimes I get a genuine smile back from one or both parties. But all too often it's just.. awkward.

I am not some sort of evil temptress on wheels! I'm not a homewrecker! The sport demands spandex! That's it! Why won't you accept my friendly smile?!

[Bluetree]

Sometimes I don't look up because I'm shy. And afraid of mean looks.

And then there are heterosexual couples. As a single young female, a friendly hello is almost impossible to pull off. The male will avoid eye contact at all costs because he's afraid his significant other will think he was checking me out, and the female is too busy making sure her significant other isn't looking anywhere near me. Even elderly couples. If I do look up and smile, I try to make contact with the female first to lessen that look shot at me like I'm some sort of evil temptress on wheels. Don't get me wrong, sometimes I get a genuine smile back from one or both parties. But all too often it's just.. awkward.

I am not some sort of evil temptress on wheels! I'm not a homewrecker! The sport demands spandex! That's it! Why won't you accept my friendly smile?!

I would accept your smile, Runit! :)
The thing is, when I ride with a guy we're either 1) Going easy and having a conversation, or 2) He's pushing me and I'm busting my a** trying to keep up. Either way, I often forget to notice other riders, male OR female. No offense intended.

***Warning: Thread hijack****

On a side note, I used to be somewhat shy, too, esp. when it came to public speaking. I'm probably just too old to give a s**t about what strangers think abut me, but the turning point came when I read a psych report. It basically stated that shyness was a form of self-absorption/self-centeredness. It means that you find your own image in the world to be so important that you would refrain from taking actions that could make your life (or other lives) potentially better. It made me think... what do I have to lose by being kind or open or friendly? If someone has a problem about it, it's their problem... not mine. Mistakes? Everyone makes them. Learning from them is what makes you grow as a person. Everyone has something to offer to make the world better, even evil smiling temptresses on bikes! ;)

***End of Thread hijack****

[Aggie_Ama]

Sometimes I don't look up because I'm shy. And afraid of mean looks.

And then there are heterosexual couples. As a single young female, a friendly hello is almost impossible to pull off. The male will avoid eye contact at all costs because he's afraid his significant other will think he was checking me out, and the female is too busy making sure her significant other isn't looking anywhere near me. Even elderly couples. If I do look up and smile, I try to make contact with the female first to lessen that look shot at me like I'm some sort of evil temptress on wheels. Don't get me wrong, sometimes I get a genuine smile back from one or both parties. But all too often it's just.. awkward.

I am not some sort of evil temptress on wheels! I'm not a homewrecker! The sport demands spandex! That's it! Why won't you accept my friendly smile?!

Wow the women you ride around must not have much self confidence. On the other hand I KNOW I am the most beautiful woman in spadex around these parts- at least in my DH's eyes. :p I wouldn't care if a beautiful woman was friendly with DH as long as she was friendly to me. So we would both accept your friendly smile, some people are just not friendly.

[BeeLady]

When I ride my beater bike to the grocery store I see a few "roadies" in their full gear and nice bikes, but they, like me, are pretty absorbed in not getting run down in traffic. I don't wave or expect a wave; I guess I would try to respond to a wave or a nod tho.

As in any arena, knitting clubs, cycle clubs, or about anywhere, there are going to be snobs, extremely shy people and those who are completely dense. Hard for me to tell in 15 seconds while passing someone who is who and what their motives are.

Being older, if not a tad wiser, I go out of my way to try and be nice and encouraging to any riders who may be new to riding. Life is tough and being a bit friendly doesn't cost much.

If I was in distress on the side of the road or stuck I would not hesitate to flag down the first rider or pick-up truck and ask for help, stopping short only of tossing out a tire punture line. I think it's expecting a bit much to have someone "know" I need help and stop on their own. My DH and I can't even read each other's minds to know when one of us needs something, kinda tough to expect a complete stranger to do the same.

I'm still new to cycling and in love with all on two wheels. I'm sure I'll become jaded and critical of other cyclists -- just give me time :D

[run it, ride it]

Oh, they're never people on bicycles. I'm the only one who seems to ride around here. It's always couples walking.

It's worse when I run. And when they have dogs. I thank them if they hold their dogs while I run by. This doesn't usually result in anything like a smile or a 'you're welcome.' Just this look like I've inconvenienced their entire existence. Apparently I'm the only one who runs around here, too.

I've bicycled and run in other places and received nothing but friendly looks. Maybe it's just this area.

And the shyness. Oh, the shyness. It's rooted in a childhood friend who took away my voice and self-confidence. Well, and in being even the slightest bit different in a small town. Hell, I'm in university now and -still- 'different.'

From an abstract point of view, I don't care what people think of me. It's the one-on-one confrontation I can't handle. It's not my choice to be shy. It's not a rational thing. Fight or flight kicks in and that's the end of it. And usually people I'm shy of are people I don't end up getting along with anyway.

I don't understand the female social code at all. The manipulation, the passive-aggresivity, the intent to emotionally destroy. I can't handle it and won't take part.

What was that line by Jewel? "I'm sensitive and I'd like to stay that way."

Let's just take it outside in a friendly race or spar!

[Bikingmomof3]

Oh, they're never people on bicycles. I'm the only one who seems to ride around here. It's always couples walking.

It's worse when I run. And when they have dogs. I thank them if they hold their dogs while I run by. This doesn't usually result in anything like a smile or a 'you're welcome.' Just this look like I've inconvenienced their entire existence. Apparently I'm the only one who runs around here, too.



I am in the same boat, so to speak. Different area, but the same. When I run I smile, wave, say 'hi' and I just get the same annoyed looks. It is rare, in my area, to see other runners or cyclists. Now if I drive to the beautiful trails it is completely different.

I have had my neighbours comment on my "fancy racing helmet". Ummm, it was the least expensive Giro, and it is to protect my skull. And those are the friendly neighbours. :eek:

[SouthernBelle]

My elderly (90s) neighbor is fascinated by my riding.

This morning on my ride, I passed LOTS of cyclists going the other way, and I think everybody spoke! I think it was because it was a beautiful morning, but very cold and we all respected anybody dumb enough to be out in that cold wind.

I also said Good Morning to people working in their yards, drives, etc. Some look surprised. Some smile and reply. I like to watch for their reactions. I enjoy it when I get the happy reply.