Help! I'm test-riding 2 Sevens

[bikerz]

My LBS is a Seven dealer and they have 2 Sevens in the shop for test rides that are my size, so I'm test-riding them tomorrow - I'm so excited! One is the Ti Alaris and the other is a steel Elium.

I've never test-ridden a bike before (I didn't even test ride my current bike before I bought it - too self-conscious! :o ). My current bike is a Specialized Sequoia Elite with 24-38-52/11-37 (yikes! But it gets me up the hills!) - aluminum frame, carbon fork, Mavic Ksyrium wheels.

The LBS will swap my saddle and pedals over, and make a few quick adjustments for basic fit, and I'm going to ask them to put my current front wheel on the test bikes also.

Melissam sent me a link to a site about test riding and they suggested climbing and descending, standing up on a climb, and riding on some rough roads, so I'll definitely do all these things.

I'm going to get there early and ride my bike around to try and "lock in" what it feels like. And I'll try the hill on my bike in the gear equivalent to the Seven's granny gear.

I've heard people say that as soon as they got on their bike they "knew" it was the right one for them. I'm hoping for the "Eureka!" experience, but I'd also like to have a slightly more methodical approach.

Any other things I should be thinking of and feeling for on these test rides?

Seven-owners in particular - any tips?

Thanks!

[Trekhawk]

No tips from me Ann - just have fun.

I will need to see pictures asap if you get a new bike.:D

[bikerz]

Ha! Thanks Leslie!

I'll probably be so excited I'll probably end up posting pictures of the test bikes!

(And if I get a Seven, the wait time will be a couple of months...)

[Trekhawk]

Ha! Thanks Leslie!

I'll probably be so excited I'll probably end up posting pictures of the test bikes!

(And if I get a Seven, the wait time will be a couple of months...)

Well then - if you buy a Seven we had better plan a ride for just after delivery so I can oggle. You know I will need to be on your back wheel to do that so you will be pulling.:D :D

[jenxxs]

Hi,
I've recently been in the same position as you - found a store demo of a custom bike in my size, but in my case, I couldn't test ride it, because it was on eBay. But since I've extensively researched the geometry that I need, I was willing to go for it.

My experience with it so far - it's definitely the right size, but I am going to be tweaking with it for a while, so I certainly didn't have a "Eureka" first ride. My store demo appears to have been put together with a few random leftover-type parts, so one of them was really wrong - crankset way too big for me. This has definitely affected my experience with the bike so far, and I am working to fix this ASAP.

Even for parts that I know are appropriate, like the WSD-style handlebars: they are a new style of handlebar for me, so I've been tweaking the angle a lot, trying to get the best hand positions.

To summarize: Try to observe if the various parts on the bike (that you're not going to swap for your test ride) are ones that would make sense for you. Those could affect how you feel on your test ride, but can be fixed later if the frame is a good fit. Ditto for parts that are significantly different from your old bike in some way - it may take some time to figure out how they work for you.

Have fun - and if you're thinking of buying one of these demos, good luck with it, b/c opportunities like that don't come around very often!

[Adventure Girl]

Help! I'm test-riding 2 SevensIs that like test riding a 14??

My current bike is a Specialized Sequoia Elite with 24-38-52/11-37Do you know what the gear ratios will be on the test bikes? It most likely won't be geared that low;). Remember that you're just test riding for fit, not gearing. You could always change the gears if you find a Seven that fits you. Have a good time!

[jenxxs]

oh, I see that you think you might go full-custom with it - even better ;) My suggestions still hold for the test ride, though. Have fun!

[Trek420]

Chris and Tim will have to wrestle one of those bikes away from you. :D

Since Macarthur's been redesigned and narrowed (grrrrrr) I'd ride outa the shop 1 block, take a left on Estudillo and head right uphill!! Have fun.

Does he have a Mondonico in your size ;-) I'd be interested in how you thought that compares with a 7.

[bikerz]

Is that like test riding a 14??AG - I knew I could count on you to pick up on that!

The test bikes have standard triples and 11-27 cassettes. My only concern on the gearing is being able to get far enough up the hill on the test bikes to get a little descending experience too.

Jenxxs - thanks for the info - yes, I would be getting a full custom Seven, if we get that far, and if I feel I can justify the expense (my friend Scott, who's been after me for a year to get a Seven, said "just think about the miles you'll earn!")

Trek420 - Chris has a route for me to ride, and it does include that hill up Estudillo. I'll also see what else he has in the shop for me to try that is more or less my size, for comparison, if he has the time to do all that pedal changing and tweaking.

[DebW]

Melissam sent me a link to a site about test riding and they suggested climbing and descending, standing up on a climb, and riding on some rough roads, so I'll definitely do all these things.


For this test ride, you need to concentrate on the difference in frame feel and flexibility of the 2 Seven frames (one Ti, one steel). The fit will be customized later if you buy a Seven, so try not to dwell on how well one or the other frame fits you. Likewise the components will be customized for you, so try to ignore differences in components as you test ride. I used to test ride about a dozen bikes a day when I worked in a shop, so know how to ride for maximum stress on the machine (these were test rides after repair, to make sure the bike wouldn't break for the customer).

Drivetrain stiffness: The best way to test drivetrain stiffness is to pound as hard as you can up a hill in a gear as big as you can manage. This will flex the frame (mainly the chainstays) to its max (or to your max - a larger stronger person could flex it more). Do you feel like all of your power is going into forward propulsion? Does it feel snappy, like it responds immediately to pedal power? Part of the stiffness you feel will include any flex in the cranks as well, but most crankset these days are adequately stiff. (With old steel cranksets of the 70s, you could see them bend when you mashed the pedals hard.) Go up the hill as hard as you can and again with whatever gear/cadence would be normal for you. Generally stiffer is better here, but it needs to be balanced with the comfort of the overall ride.

Frame comfort: Here's the bumpy road test. Ride the bumps sitting, on hoods and on drops, and standing. Does it soak up the road shocks or transmit them directly to your hands, feet, and butt? Can you pedal over the bumps with minimal interference in your pedal stroke? Does road comfort come at the expense of drivetrain stiffness? Part of the shock absorption here comes from the wheelset, so try to ride both bikes with similar wheels if you can.

Descending: The bike should feel stable, you should be able to transfer weight to the front wheel, and the steering should be responsive - quick but not twitchy. Find out if the head angle, fork rake, and trail differ in the 2 bikes you test. That should affect the steering feel and then you'll have an idea of the geometry you want in your custom.

Remember that Seven will customize not just the frame angles, but the tubing, so they can dial in the stiffness and flex that you want for either a Ti or steel frame to some extent. Let us know how much difference you can feel.

[bikerz]

Wow Deb - thanks for all of this great info - I wasn't sure what I should be looking for with the frame material differences - this has been very helpful! I'm going to print it out and keep it in my jersey pocket!

It sounds like moving my current front wheel to each test bike would be a good thing to help isolate frame vs. wheel stiffness, right? I think moving the back wheel also would be too much of a pain.

Again thanks! I'll definitely report back.

[DebW]

It sounds like moving my current front wheel to each test bike would be a good thing to help isolate frame vs. wheel stiffness, right? I think moving the back wheel also would be too much of a pain.

Yes, moving your front wheel is a good idea. Hopefully the shop can set you up with rear wheels that have the same number of spokes for each bike. Or maybe they can transfer wheels from bike A to bike B when you test them.

[CyclChyk]

...geez. You can tell I'm new to the world of biking.... my first thought was "DAMN! I wish I was skinny enough to fit in a pair of Seven Jeans (the designer jeans)....:rolleyes:

[Trek420]

that's ok CyclChyk, she means these :)

www.sevencycles.com

[CyclChyk]

Oh geezz....... You had to go and show me the bikes! I'm drooling so badly rght now my dogs are CONVINCED that I have a bone and I'm not sharing. My hubby is wondering what I am up to and the word/number "7" has taken on a whole new meaning.................

Giant?? Giant who....?????:eek:

[Trek420]

sorry 'bout that. :cool:

[roguedog]

...geez. You can tell I'm new to the world of biking.... my first thought was "DAMN! I wish I was skinny enough to fit in a pair of Seven Jeans (the designer jeans)....:rolleyes:

geez.. YOu can tell I'm new to the world of biking and a shopping geek... my first thought was "DAMN! She gets a Seven bike??" And then I read CyclChk's post, "What the hell are Seven jeans??"

[bikerz]

Sevens are lovely bikes. Oh, so lovely. That's why, my friends, the credit card stays at home tomorrow! No implulse buys. And I mean it!

I'll post my impressions after the rides, if I am at all coherent.

[CyclChyk]

Ok lets see if I get this right. A link to Seven jeans.......

http://www.active-sandals.com/seven-jeans.html

Much cheaper than the bike but VERY expensive for a pair of jeans.....

[7rider]

How did I miss this post???

I ride a Seven. I have a stock (not custom) 1999 Seven Axiom rebuilt in '05 with a compact crank and Dura Ace. I love it. Love it. LOVE it! It rides like silk on the road. It knows what I want to do before I do. It is super comfortable, stable, quick, climbs like a goat (when the old goat in the saddle is up to the task herself!) and descends like a demon!

It was major hard sell on the part of my LBS. My old bike was plainly not up to the task of hanging with the hammerheads on the shop ride (could the rack and the headlight that I forgot how to remove give it away??). He let me "borrow" this one (back in 2000) than accepted an offer when I got back to the shop and realized I HAD to have it. Talk about Eureka moments.

Incidently, the only bike I have ever ridden that comes CLOSE to the Seven was a steel Independent Fabrications Crown Jewel. If I didn't have the Seven already, I'd now be riding the IF. But how many wunder-bikes can a girl have?

So...
HOW did you your test rides go??? What do you think?? Will you be joining us in the Seven world???

P.S. When I rob a bank or otherwise have a bag o' money fall out of the sky into my lap, I'm going to get a custom ID8 or Elium. Yay!

[7rider]

Ok lets see if I get this right. A link to Seven jeans.......

http://www.active-sandals.com/seven-jeans.html

Much cheaper than the bike but VERY expensive for a pair of jeans.....


Do you have to always stick your hip jauntily outward like all their models when you're wearing them???? Oooo, my chiropractor would LOVE that! :p

[bikerz]

First, thanks to everyone who offered suggestions for my test rides! it was very helpful to go in there with some clear things to think about.

I rode the short route the LBS suggeted, which had rollers, flats, rough and smooth pavement, and a nice little hill to climb and descend. First I did it on my bike, then on the steel Seven, and then on the Ti. The Sevens were configured very similarly, and had identical wheels, so we just left the wheels alone. Both bikes had handlebars that were too narrow for me by about 4 cm, so that took a little to get used to, and then try to ignore.

The steel bike was so smooth and soft - it actually felt a little too smooth to me. There was a kind of delay when starting up from a stop or standing and sprinting. It was very comfortable. I liked it, and it made me realize how on my bike I really do feel every little bump. But I didn't feel much "zoom" on it.

Then I tried the Ti bike, and I liked it much more than the steel. It still felt smooth, but was more responsive somehow. Starting up and sprinting it felt much quicker to get going. My loop on the Ti bike was much faster (going by my watch only - so not super-accurate) - some of the feeling of being faster might have been being more warmed up and more enthusiastic.

I tried climbing standing up on both bikes and the steel felt really wobbly when I stood - I thought this must be the narrow handlebars, but the Ti had the same too-narrow bars yet felt much more stable.

Chris (LBS guy) suggested I compare the Seven Ti to another Ti bike he has (Habanero) just to see how the same frame material differs on two different brands. I'd like to ride the Seven Ti bike again with my wheels on front and back, and it would be great to have handlebars that are a better fit so I don't feel so cramped, but I'm not sure they go that far for a test ride.

Then I think I'll try a few other bikes at other places - just to see how all of them feel. Aesthetically, I really really like the look of Sevens - I like the tubular instead of flatter bar styles, but I think I should try a broader range of brands before deciding. It's a lot of airline miles to earn :cool: , so I want to be very informed about my decision. And I'm not in any hurry. Plus, riding other bikes is fun, I found!

Thanks again for all your help!

[DebW]

The steel bike was so smooth and soft - it actually felt a little too smooth to me. There was a kind of delay when starting up from a stop or standing and sprinting. It was very comfortable. I liked it, and it made me realize how on my bike I really do feel every little bump. But I didn't feel much "zoom" on it.

Whippy is a word often used for a bike like this. Soaks up shocks, but soaks up your pedal energy too. Not stiff enough in the drivetrain. You can't accelerate quickly.



Then I tried the Ti bike, and I liked it much more than the steel. It still felt smooth, but was more responsive somehow. Starting up and sprinting it felt much quicker to get going. My loop on the Ti bike was much faster (going by my watch only - so not super-accurate) - some of the feeling of being faster might have been being more warmed up and more enthusiastic.

Snappy, responsive, but still smooth. Sounds very nice.



I tried climbing standing up on both bikes and the steel felt really wobbly when I stood - I thought this must be the narrow handlebars, but the Ti had the same too-narrow bars yet felt much more stable.


That Ti Seven sure sounds sweet. If you like steel, you could certainly find a steel bike that is much stiffer and more responsive. But it would weigh more and probably not absorb road shocks as well. BTW, you were comparing straight-gage Ti and double-butted steel.

[KnottedYet]

My steel Waterford only weighs 1 1/2 lbs more than my boss's ti Seven. I gotta gloat over that, cuz she was giving me sh!t over buying a "heavy" steel bike.

[SadieKate]

Steel heavier? Not necessarily. My Kelly Bonestock in True Temper OX Platinum is stiffer, more responsive, snappier than my Litespeed Tuscany. It is almost identical in weight (and less than some other Ti frames I've seen) even though the Litespeed has lighter wheels and components. Deb is right though in that it doesn't absorb the road buzz as well.

The Kelly whips up hills and leaps forward under acceleration. The Litespeed absorbs road buzz far better. It rides like lugged steel from a road buzz view but without the weight and not as slow a response time.

It really comes down to the tubesets and how the builder manipulates the tubing and the geometry. Seven stocks so many different types of tubing in the different frame materials that they can really tune a ride. I'd love to see what they could do with Ti for the road buzz but a stiffer acceleration. Ti can get a little wimpy in large frames, but you don't need to worry about that. Have you looked at Roark? I seen some nice frames from them.

Bill's Seven steel/carbon is snappy fast and light. It is far too large for me to try, but I get the impression from him that it absorbs road buzz very well.

[bikerz]

The smoothness of the ride on both bikes was remarkable, compared to my Al bike - it was definitely the most notable ride aspect. And the second most notable was what felt like the sluggishness. Some of that could have been the wheels because my regular wheels are very stiff.

I'm not sure who else is reading this thread, but I guess I'm asking SK abd Deb for starters: To what degree do you guys think that the tubing and geometry manipulation that could be done to increase the snappiness (is this vertical compliance?) would be or should be affected by rider weight? (And not just snappiness, but any other ride characteristic). Specifically, I am a pretty heavy rider now, and I have about another 30-40 pounds to lose. It seems like that level of fine-tuning would be more likely to be affected by my weight than other factors like fit or componentry. Is that true?

I do plan on riding as many other bikes as I can - carbon, other steel and Ti, and so on. I don;t knwo anything about Roark - I'll look them up.

Thanks for all your thoughts - this is a really fun process!

[SadieKate]

Sluggishness in handling or sluggishness in acceleration and climbing?

For the latter, I'm guessing that the two bikes you rode have bottom brackets built for someone like me (I'm guessing you and I ride near to the same size bike - at least close enough for horseshoes). Bottom brackets are where you get that snappiness in acceleration. A good custom builder will use different tubing to tune (uh, beef up) the bike's bottom bracket to the rider's weight.

Then, there is the whole discussion of acceleration from wheels. Argg!

What do you want from the bike? If you were telling a builder in your own way what you want, what would that be? What riding characteristics do you not like about your own bike?